| Author | Message | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Joel, Thank for that website real answers (People to People). Today, I plan on listening in.  Thanks for everything by the way, it's been very beneficial. God Bless you and your household. denise, your sister in Christ our Savior. | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Denise, you would be welcome in Vineyard churches as well, with the pink hair. My son came to our church with his green phase. And was singing in his church's worship band while he had blue hair....and the yellow, red, and purple phases as well. We have a number of former addicts and ex-offenders in our congregation. As well as some who are still struggling with their addictions. All are welcomed and loved. Our pastor has told the story of an Assembly of God church in Australia that had a guy come to services one day high on drugs, and wearing nothing but a shower curtain. He was loved....and changed. See, it has to do with the heart attitude of the congregation...are they there to be a private club or a hospital. And I've said this before, but I'll repeat myself. Please please don't make the mistake of visiting churches and you carrying the same attitude that you expect to find in them ....i.e. that they must measure up to all items on YOUR private list and that they must act in the way that YOU deem perfect. Please be willing to entertain the possibility that just maybe! some of the items on your list are things that you are passionate about, but the Lord himself thinks you are being a bit too picky on. You just may! have the straight view of a certain doctrine of scripture that really ain't all that important. And you just may!....now girlfriend Denise we are just considering some possibilities here....may! find that the Lord is wanting to teach you to get a grip on your tongue a bit. Hey...a part of body life is being willing to realize that the person you are speaking to may still have some immaturities, meanness, flaws, lack of understanding of scripture, lack of tact in speech, lack of experience with people, be pure stupid, or just plain having a real rotten day. It's no different than being a part of family. Just because we think a thought doesn't mean we have to speak it. And just because we know something, doesn't mean we have to lay our fount of wisdom on someone. Dress...what's that? I see we have something else in common Denise. When I visit my mom's church (which I avoid as much as possible!...it's a rather stuffy Southern Baptist group. Last time I went I sat there thinking, "okay God, I know you tell us in your word that where two or three are gathered together in your name you are in their midst, but are you dozing off here too?") I purposely "forget" to pack my one and only dress just so I can wear pants to church...they need to get their blood pumping. I wear makeup maybe once or twice a year. And as for those holes you have....if you give me your address, can I send you some earings to put back in the holes? I'm serious girl! I'm pretty miffed about the jewelry that we sold while SDA. I'm re-collecting now and enjoying wearing it again. And I hate to think of you not having some! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Denise, I'm continuing to pray for you and for your finding a church where you feel at home. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Have any of you ever looked at the A-Today website? For the 1st time I did that this evening. I went to the polls and looked at the questions asked and the responses. One Q. was, "What do you consider to be the most important Adventist doctrine"? Well, I ASSUMED (dumb me!) the most important doctrine of any church that calls itseld Christian would be the belief of Jesus as our saviour. No, that wasn't even one of the eight or so choices offered. The #1 choice for the most important SDA doctrine was their Investigative Judgement belief. Aother was their hrealth message, another The Sabbath (this came in at #2), there were several others but NOWHERE was JESUS offered as an option for the most important SDA doctrine. Give me a break! | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Evening Lydell, To be honest, I don't have this big list and infact, to the contrary. My "list" goes something like this: First and Foremost, they MUST believe that Jesus Christ is our God and Savior. HE Comes First. If in any way they shy away from this to externals, I'm not interested in any of their teachings. Now, my mouth, believe it or not, can be silent while I listen. I've had to learn that the hard way of course. It used to be that I would interupt people all the time before they had the chance to completely finish what they were saying. That wasn't good nor fair on my part. And those poor people didn't know what hit them when I'd jump right into the middle of their sentences. So that part is getting much much better. Now I'm very intuned to those folks that are immature, or maybe had a bad day, or lack experience with people from ALL walks of life, infact the ones that don't have experience with people from all walks of life, are the majority in the churches. ..all those things you mentioned. Course one of those things you mentioned I'm still guilty of, and that is lack of tact. I have NO tact whatsoever. And when I try to speak with a somewhat diplomatic tone, it really gets messed up and I'm scrambled all over the place trying to find the right words that would better say what it is that is on my mind. I'm rotten at this tact buisness. My words just come out naturally and that is not always the best way. So pray for me will ya? It sure would help in some cases. Course I have to admit that it was my saying things just like they are that seems to draw many people. People don't want to hear all that garble of cliches, that's not normal for most people in fact. Most people are just simple people who don't think or speak in cliches or politically correct sentences. That's my experience with people. Although it is fun to see the shocked but pleased looks of those who all their lives kept hearing these "religious cliches" or "political correct" sentences. They are shocked because it's uncommon nowadays to just say it like it is, but they are pleased because they realize they can really and truly be themselves around me. They leave nothing in secret with me...they tell me everything. Things that they would never tell another person in church or who is a Christian. So it all works out pretty good this way. But still I need to work on my tactfulness for those that only respond to this type of talking. As to anything else on my list well it would be something like this: If I bring an ex con into church and he's covered with tats and his hair is long and his clothes are biker type clothing and I hear one person say anything,,,,,and I mean ANYTHING that is derogatory about my friend. Then I speak up loud and bold. I don't find that a "welcome mat" from any Christians mouth. Especially in Church regarding a newcomer. All people that I will introduce to a Church need FIRST see that "love" that you talked about in your above post. For without love, nothing else matters. If they hear words or see people giving them "that look" ...you know, that look of disgust, they really feel unwelcomed are unwilling to go back. Infact, usually they are unwilling to enter into another church building at all because of that. These are babes that need nurturing, not offensive looks or remarks. Can't think of anything else that would be on my list. Well, unless it's the useless talk of what to eat or not eat, that one should quit smoking, or dress differently in order to supposedly "please God." Then I find that stuff useless and tell my friends to just listen to God's Holy Spirit, keep praying, and for sure, let's keep reading the Bible together. Because it is God who Sanctifies us and it is God who will lead us in whatever way HE chooses. Not mans teachings or "rules." You gotta keep in mind that some of these folks that I take to church have just come out of prison, jail or a rehab and they don't need a list of rules given to them by a church. They need Love and Acceptance. Let God do the rest. And He will, for God is faithful. If you would have seen me just over 4 years ago, you would never, in a zillion years guess at the POWER OF GOD, and how HE works on all of us. Some of us (me) slowly, and others HE works quite quickly. It's God's call, not ours. And you are right too Lydell about the things we know but don't have to tout it out loud to others all the time. This too is something that I'm still in the process of being healed. My mouth can be my worst enemy at times, this is the truth. So, like the Bible says, even though it's the smallest of parts, it can do danger or it can do good. This is very true indeed. Thank you for addressing all kinds of things that were in my mind. It's like God was using you to talk to me and this is great, isn't it! Now as to the jewelry, I'd love to give you my address and be able to once again, wear my jewelry...I sure do miss them. Sides, with pink hair, what good will that do without the jewelry...:::chuckle::: So here's my email address and from our exchange I can give you my home address: mygodismystrength@hotmail.com Thank you Lydell and may God of Heaven Bless you and yours forevermore. amen. Denise, who is happy with her Father who is in Heaven! | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Colleen, I sure thank you for your prayers. As I've said above, I need all the prayers one can get. And when or if there is a Church that is absolutely Loving and Accepting of ALL walks of life. You can count on me to post it here. So far, I've gotten quite a list of possibilities and am willing to check them all out. Keep those prayers coming will ya? Oh yes, And would you mind putting me on your prayer list at your Church? Wonderful people there it seemed like. Course I only had the opportunity to attend that one time but that one time convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt of the POWER of the Holy Spirit! Hallelu-YAH to God Almighty, our Lord Jesus Christ forever. amen. Denise, your sister in the outskirts of any denomination or church attendance in church buildings...with an exception of my home..of course! | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
Susan 2, yep, I know about the A-Today site. I used to post over there quite a bit but then there was a big split. In fact, it looked like A-Today was going extinct, but it sounds like it's devolved into a mouthpiece for the conservative crowd. A lot of folks bailed out for www.atomorrow.com, where heretics are mostly tolerated. Still, they don't tolerate blatant anti-SDA rants---I have to save that for here! Bill | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Hi Susan, You had stated this a day or so back: "I guess it's my problem because I just don't trust there is really a truly born-again Adventist, well, not with all I include in the term "born-again". Well, I'm not sure what your term of born again means but I do know one Seventh Day Adventist that is truly born again. She is my sweet friend Arleta. She is 86 years old and has nothing to do with EGW or their doctrines really, other than tithe and she keeps Sabbath. But we are not to judge one another in regards to what day someone esteems as holy, so I don't judge her, nor does she judge me. Also, she attends or used to attend on sunday, the Pentacostal church with her beau. She is my "mother" as far as I'm concerned in this earthly life and has been a good mentor for me through almost 4 years now. Please pray for her as her health is failing and my heart is crying. "mourn with those who mourn." Peace and May God Bless you Susan. your sister, Denise, one of God's children | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Bill, You had me chuckling over here with this remark: "Still, they don't tolerate blatant anti-SDA rants---I have to save that for here!" Oh brother, don't I know it! That site really hit me hard and fast regarding my view of Adventism. Or was it just my imagination that they did....hmmmm, I'll let the readers be the judge. Blessings always, Denise whowasreallyreprimandedbyamoderatoronanotherforum | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
'kay Denise, I'll e-mail you. Glad you weren't offended at what I said...it was meant to be a chat over a cup of coffee. Yeah, those just coming out of stuff desperately need folks kindness. I think many times they are already beating themselves up so badly they certainly don't need a religious sort looking down their nose at them. And I think another element the body needs desperately is a sense of humor. There's just stuff that's going to happen as the babes in Christ are learning to toddle, an the never-been-to-church folks move in. Let's see, for instance, there was this day that this lady, an unbeliever came to visit. At the end of the worship service the pastor said something about how much he had appreciated the worship that day and invited everyone to turn to their neighbor and tell them, "man, I was blessed by that!" In the midst of the voices that followed was heard this particular visitors quite loud voice as she turned to her friend and in her most natural way of happily speaking said, "well I was sure as hell blessed by that, and I really mean it!" hello... and then there was one of our sister Vineyard churches that had some folks come to visit as the result of an outreach the precious day to a housing area near them. One guy spent the entire service in the back walking around sniffing loudly in the corners as if searching for something. If the body is truly open to the unsaved, the broken, and the hurting, then you have to expect that people are going to act in most surprising and even annoying ways. If the church is a place where it is always quiet, dignified, structured, and tightly ordered, then you can bet the kind of needy folks we are speaking about are NEVER going to stick around to hear what is being said about the Lord. | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
I'll bet the fellow who was sniffing loudly had Tourette Syndrome. I this is the case then I sure do hope you all make him feel welcome. It is very hard for folks with Tourettes to feel welcoe ANYWHERE! Believe me, I know. | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Lydell, That newcomer to your Church that said that statement about the sermon/service, is so funny! She was being herself and in ingnorance just "said it like it is" to her. She reminds me of the time I first walked back into the SDA Church and there was a presentation on this mission with pictures of the grass hut churches being built in this little island. Well, I as so impressed and happy about what God was doing, that as the rest of the congregation was sitting there, hands placed neatly in lap, softly saying "amen"...I quite loudly said "PRAISE THE LORD!!!"...I can bet ya that that woman and me got the same look from the rest of the congregation. I'm still laughing over here over that one. And that man, for all we know, might have been coming off of drugs, or had a cold, or like Susan said, maybe he had Tourette's Syndrome,,like I have Dystonia that causes commotion within the church ranks at times...whatever. But you're right, new people to the churches will just be themselves, not knowing that they're supposed to be clones...don't ya know. I've never nor will never be a "clone." This really irks alot of church goers but they are going to have to just pray for me and here's a concept.....Maybe, just maybe, spend some time with me and invite me to dinner, coffee or to their home! WOW...what a concept huh? I'm about to check my email now. I was out being the wild woman (as some people say), celebrating with all the American Indians, the new year. God bless you always, Denise, that wild and crazy woman! But God's kid... | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Actually, I think they determined later that the man who was sniffing was mentally ill. And I was proud to see that I saw only one or two glare at the woman. Most just quickly put a hand over their mouth to stiffle a giggle so as not to offend her. You're right Denise, she was just being herself. After the service her friend was apologizing for the outburst, and told me that it was the first time this 40+ year old woman had EVER been in church...her parents and grandparents hadn't been church goers, and she'd not had friends before who attended church. So even for weddings and funerals, she had literally never been to church. We forget sometimes that there are folks like that. Forget that there are those with mental problems who may act strangely. Or, as you said Susan, with physical problems that force "unusual" behavior. And I've no doubt that there are times when someone may act or even dress in a shocking manner just to see if the love and acceptance they have been shown is real. Not unlike an adolescent. Yeah, the kind of body life the Lord had in mind can only happen by the power of His love, by the indwelling Spirit. | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
I recenty attended the SDA on a Saturday morning with my mother. I have been attending the Lutheran for such a long time that I'd forgotten that the two denominations use the same words but those word have different meanings. At the Luthertan where I attend when the person up front says, "Now we will pray together" it always means corporate prayer, either reciting the Our Father or one of the prayers in the worship book or in the bulletin. So, I waited for the SDA pastor to say the page of the prayer in the SDA worship book and when I realized we weren't reciting a prayer from the woship book and I saw no printed prayer in the bulletin I assumed it would be a recitation of the Our Father. So, when everyone had their heads bowed I loudly began reciting the Our Father. I immediately realized I was the only one praying and then I shut up. Then the SDA pastor said his prayer. On the way out I told this SDA minister that when he said, "We will now pray" I understood the word "we" to mean we, or all, a congreational prayer. He was very nice to me but I sure did get some looks like I must be a crazy woman from some of the regulars to that church. Now about Touette Syndrome. My dad had T.S. I have T.S. and two of my children have T.S. Several years ago the Yale Study Team was trying to isolate the T.S. gene. They needed families from the U.S., Canada and Mexico to volunteer their families blood that had at least two consectutive generations of folks diagnosed with T.S. I immediatelly called the T.S.A. and offered our blood. Several months latea doctor drove over 250 miles to my house to get our bloods. In all 140 families partisipated in this study consisting of round 500 people. I am very honored to say that I will unnamoeiselly go down in medical history as being a contributer that led to the isolation of the Tourette gene. They sent me a nice letter thanking me but due to my disgorizational skills I haven't a clue what happened to that letter and it is something I had wanted to keep. You all should go to a T.S. conventon sometime. They are a real Hoot! (get the double meaning of the word "hoot"?) | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Once again I attended the local SDA church this A.M. with my mother. Their regular minister gives some really good talks, not very gosple oriented but still very interesting taks. Kind of what I would call motivational lectures. Today the pastor was not there and he had someone else do the sermon. I too notes. The word,"Jesus" was mentioned twice, both times at the end of a prayer by saying, "In Jesus name we pray, amen". It was also mentioned in one song the congreation sang called,"Jesus My Redeemer". The rest o the entire sermon was based on EGW's Testominies Volume 1, page 14. Her conversion experience. Apprently EGW tried to become born agin at age 13 but she couldn't get it right and no matter how hard she tried o have a born-again experience she couldn't "get it right" until she was 14 1/2 years old. Then he vread John 1:10-13 to tell us our born-again experience is from our own effort. Then he said we need to go home and read Testominies Volume 1 and we will find a chapter that EGW writes called, "Feelings of Dispare" and he told us if even someone so righteous as Ellen White felt feelings of dispair than certanily we should know that we, who no where come cloe to measureingup to her status before God, that we too should not feel surprised when we suffer from feelings of dispare. Then we learned that the first step in becmming right before God is conviction. The second step in becmming right before God is being born-again. Then he said he was out of time nd we'd have to wait to learn he next steps of bcomming right before God. He then told the audience to go home and read Galations 5:19-20 to learn how it is bfore beingborn-again and then ead Galations 5:22-26 to learn what life is like after being born-again. Then he ended by saying we all need to go home and pray "the sinners prayer". Frankly, the entire talk seemed a mismash of all sorts of different things but mostly it was that we would never be able to measure up to Ellen White. I nkept glancing over at my mom and she slept through nearly all of it, bless her heart, as did numerous others in the audience. Several kids were actually playing their Game Boys during the sermon. I reall wish some of you (especially you, Colleen) could come some Saturday and check out this local SDA church. The whole thing, from first entering through the doors until leaving at the end, "just dosen't FEEL right". I can't get the wrds to explain what I mean, but it just seems like there is something really missing that should be there in what is to be a Christian worship service and it sees like rtherte is something present that should not be present. Am I making sense? Now I'm going to do what the man in front said to do and that is read those texts. | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
Well, I might give it a try and I'm in SoCal as well---only about three miles from Colleen. If you don't want to post the church on the open forum you can e-mail me at the5scotts@earthlink.net Bill | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Susan, without visiting your mom's particular church, I can tell you what's there that shouldn't be. It's the same thing that I've felt in every Adventist church I've visitedóand since I've left Adventism, the feeling is much stronger/more intense than it ever was before. It's the spirit of Adventism, and I don't mean that euphemistically. A true Christian church has the Holy Spirit present. As you've experienced, his presence is real and powerful and makes the worship real and intense. Adventist churches (for the most part) do not have the Holy Spirit in them, but they do have the spirit of Adventism, which is literally a spirit of deception and confusion. Consequently, people snooze, have trouble singing, and generally do not understand that they're being lulled and mesmerized by a confusing mish-mash of partial truths and unrelated texts. The focus is almost never Jesus. In fact, have you noticed how much trouble many Adventists have even saying the name "Jesus"? Richard and I attented a funeral at an Adventist church a little over a year ago. It was on a Sunday evening (I think), and I was overwehlmed by how heavy and depressing the church and service were. It wasn't just because it was a funeral, either, although the message was one of absolutely no positive hope. In short, I totally understand what you're describing, Susan. I've felt it, too. When you know Jesus and are indwelt by His Spirit, you are much more disturbed and aware of being disturbed by being in the presence of a false spirit. I praise God for his goodness and faithfulness! Colleen | ||
| Seekr777 (Seekr777) |
Dear Friends, While I'm new to this forum I have been reading and "listening" for awhile and this will be my first post online. I want to thank each of you in advance for making this a place where I can learn and grow in my relationship with Jesus. A little background about myself. I'm in my 50's married to a Jewish lady and have an adopted daughter (16) who I love dearly but she can be a real challenge. I believe I'm a third or fourth generaton SDA. Each generation has spend at least some time in the mission field. My parents are fairly traditional SDA's as are both of my sisters and their families. About 30 years ago I stopped being involved in church activities and was not walking closely with my Lord. I still believed and as I look back know that God was still working quietly on me and would not let me go. He wanted me to have a real relationship with him and not just an "inherited" relationship. When I got married 20 years ago (anniversary this next Thursday) I took a long look at my life and God started me on the long process of revealing little by little to a very stuborn person (me) how much he really loved and yearned for an intimate relationship with me. I wanted to be involved in "relationships" at church so started a men's study group. Since my wife did not attend church with me I was both married and single as far as the church was concerned. After a few years I realized I was more involved in "doing" rather than "worshiping" in my church and God impressed me there must be something more. It's a long story and I know I must shorten all this factual "stuff" but I joined another church what has really allowed me to grow and open my life to the work and changing power of the Holy Spirit. The church I attend is "currently" still a member of the SDA Denomination but it is not a traditional SDA church. We have dual membership, which means that when baptised you can become a member of the local church and also of the SDA denomination or a member of the local church body alone. No one goes over the "27" before you become a member. <smile> The only expectation is that you have surrendered your heart to Christ and accepted Him into your heart. There is much more I could say but I've run out of time to post and will share and learn more as I get to know others here. Colleen I had to smile when I read your post about the funeral you attended. Not long ago we had a funeral at our church and while we were sad we also had a joyous hope and it was a time to praise God for what he had done in that persons life and also in ours. I didn't know if I should laugh or cry when I saw some members break out in a joyous praise dance for His awesome mercy and love as we worshiped and sang. blesings to each of you, Richard | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Welcome, Richard! From what I know of your church, I realize it is not in the category of most SDA churches. God is working there! It will be most interesting to see what the future holds for all of you! Praise God for his relentless grace and for his timing and for the fact that he knows our hearts! Colleen | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Richard, welcome! I can't wait to hear more of your story and about your church. It certainly is not the norm among Adventist Churches. Is it sanctioned by the General Conference? In His Grace Doug |
