| Author | Message | ||
| Jtree |
I defy anyone to find a solitary text of Scripture in the New Testament that uses the law to motivate, inspire, regulate, or even guide the believer. Believers are motivated by love, inspired by gratitude, regulated by grace, and guided by, the Holy Spirit. The whole Word of God, the complete revelation of His will is our law. Our lives are governed by love, not by fear. We walk by faith, not by legislation. We walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh (Romans 8:9-14; Galatians 3:3). Your thoughts! | ||
| Nate |
There is not a Law motivation in the New Covenant. The only places where Law is mentioned are in the context of the unsaved as in I Tim 1:8 and in the contrast with the New way of life in the Spirit. Sometimes Law is mentioned after the fact so as to point out that when someone is filled with the love of Christ, they have fulfilled the Law. The Law is not appealed to in any context as a means to better ones status with God, or even to see what God's will is. Hebrews 1:1-2 makes it clear that the old methods of God's communication with humans are far out classed by the revelation of the Son, Jesus Christ. Unfortuanately so many of us who grew up in Old Covenant teaching have to unlearn and deprogram before we can see this truth clearly. Thanks be to God, the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. Those who truly seek the Lord will eventually see and the veil will fall off of their eyes. (II Cor 3) In Christ, Greg | ||
| Lori (Lori) |
Just found something in this text that I never noticed before: Matthew 5:19 "Anyone (any believer) who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven". Notice that BOTH will enter the kingdom of heaven!!! Anyone who breaks.....these commands....will be called least IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN and anyone who practices these...will be called great IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. I shared this text with my Dad. I don't know if it will have any impact or not. But I think it is an excellent verse to "free" those who think they must judge others according to the law in order to save them. This verse clearly states that both those who keep the law and those who break the law will be IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN!!!! | ||
| Lori (Lori) |
I think it works the other way as well. It "frees" those of us who have found salvation by faith in Christ alone from judging those who still feel that the law is vital. It frees us to love!!! Of course, there will still be the controversy over which group will be called "great"!!! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Lori, I've noticed that, too. Isn't it great? The law really is not the standard of judgment when people are in Christ. I hope your dad begins to sense the breath of freedom waiting for him! Colleen | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
Wow! I had never thought of that verse like that! Thanks for sharing! Janet | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
It has occurred to me that the entire book of Matthew is a recapitulation. The entire life of Jesus is reflective of the plan of salvation. In these verses in chapter five that Lori correctly illuminated, we see a classic example of a frequently misunderstood scripture when taken out of context. Legalists will look at the verses that follow and say that Jesus is saying; ìYou must make yourself perfect in order to enter Heaven.î Whereas, what he is really saying is, ìYou must be perfected in order to enter Heaven.î In one case, you are the agent of perfection. In the other case, the Holy Spirit is the agent of perfection. I suggest that this section of the Gospel is demonstrating to the Jews that their observance of the Law is not even close to the standard set by God. However, later in the book we hear Jesus say ìtake on my yoke . . .my yoke is easy, my burden is light.î How can he say that? How can Jesus tell us all those impossible things we must do and not do in chapter five then tell us that his yoke is easy? How simple and glorious is the answer: We CANNOT do them, but the Holy Spirit CAN! | ||
| Thomas1 (Thomas1) |
I would submit even further that we CAN NOT do them, but HE DID, and only through Him, are we counted as having completed the whole law, as well. In His Grip <>< Thomas | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Agreed | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Agreed again! I've come to see that whole Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5 through 7) as a description of a born-again life. Instead of the beatitudes being an "expanded Ten Commandments," as I used to think of them, they and the whole sermon illustrate what Jesus had come to do: give us new life as born-again children of God. Without the Holy Spirit, that whole passage would be hopelessly depressing. Colleen | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
THANKS ALL! :-) Very helpful! Janet | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Hello all, Here is a great read regarding "The Law and the Gospel" written by Martin Luther and others. Enjoy and Praise God for His Goodness! http://www.markers.com/ink/lawgospel.htm P.S. Take a look at Martin Luthers treatise on Christian Liberty. Another great piece! The link is post on this website but also in the "The sinners prayer as taught in our churches today" thread. dated 1-19-03 | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Why is it that the SDA are so comfortable calling themselves Laodicea? I have heard this many times. Is it because they think they are a continuation of revelation from the inception of the church to the end? I wouldn't want to call myself Laodicea, yet I have heard them refer to the SDA church as that many times. Any insight? | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Just a guess, Pheeki: They probably look at Revelations 3:14 and do not take it in context. If you only read that verse, you might think that God is especially pleased with the Laodiceans. The problem is, just a couple of verses later, we find that there is a HUGE problem with them. I think they may have chosen a good analogy without meaning to do so. I find it very amusing. Jerry | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I also find it amusing. The other reason I believe they call themselves Laodicea is that they believe the seven churches represent a chronological progression of the universal church through time. Laodicea is the last one; SDA's are the only one true church that will be on earth when Jesus comes; therefore, they are Laodicea. Crazy but true. Colleen | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
You are right Colleen. They do see themselves as fulfilling the final Gospel commission found in Revelation 14:6-12. (At least they call it the final Gospel commission...) 6Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth--to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water." (THIS IS THE TEXT (verse 7)THAT MY BROTHER SAYS PROVES THE SABBATH IS COMMANDED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT... HE SAYS THE WORDING IS EXACTLY LIKE GENESIS? I THINK HE IS REACHING.) 8A second angel followed and said, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries." 9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus. 13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them." THAT LAST STATEMENT IS INTERESTING. WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Pheeki, And in light of the last statement what do they do with John 4:23 and the fact Jesus says: But the hour is coming, AND NOW IS, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. Now in Matthew 28:17 this in fact did happen for the first time and it was in fact a Sunday;And when they saw Him they worshipped Him (was this not in spirit, since he was dead and buried and risen?); but some DOUBTED. I think that is very interesting; but some doubted. I would like to ask anyone who cares to answer out there; Do SDA's care a thing about what Jesus says? The way I have come to see it is Jesus was given all authority in Matthew 28: 18 and even before that in Matthew 17: 5 God says of Jesus "Hear Him". Some translation say Listen to Him. So do they hear Him or Listen to Him and if they do then why cannot they answer my question "When did he command us to keep the Sabbath"? And if they don't then I would have to say they like Peter, James and John need to be rebuked by God or someone who is doing the will of God such as Gal. 6:1 instructs us. While looking for scripture for this post I came upon this and in light of the fact SDA's use the Sabbath as a sign (please correct me if I am wrong) what do they do with this scripture which I think my 3rd grade grandson could read and understand when it says No SIGN SHALL BE GIVEN, but the sign of the prophet Jonas as read in Matthew 16:4 and then if you go back to Matthew 12:39 you see again he says an adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall be no sign, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: Now 40 says For Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Now is the sign the Sabbath or is it Jesus Death, burial and resurrection? Please help me since I am not an SDA and cannot get answers from the one I am "closest"to. Carol | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Someone in a post above wrote how we need to be born again, which I will concur because that is that the Bible says. I believe this to be in the spritual sense when we give our sinful selves over to the Almighty and take on the title as Servent of the Most High. However, my SDA relatives tell me it is impossible to be born agin in this life. When we are raised at the second coming of Jesus, when the righteous are raised from their graves, at that moment they will be born again. Do any of you others get that mumbo-jumbo from your SDA kin? Also, does the SDA's distort EVERY SINGLE BIBLE TEACHING THEY POSSIBLY CAN? | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
THIS IS WHAT MY NON-BELIEVING (FORMER SDA PREACHER, NOW ATHIEST) FATHER-IN-LAW SENT ME IN RESPONSE TO MY TESTIMONY OUT OF SDAism I SENT HIM. THIS REALLY UPSET ME. I AM NOT SURE WHY BUT I CRIED WHEN I READ IT. IN MY TESTIMONY I WROTE TO HIM I DIDN'T VACILLATE BETWEEN SDAism AND WHAT I BELIEVE NOW ONE BIT. I AM NOT SURE WHY HE SAID I DON'T KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE. AND THE OTHER THING THAT BOTHERED ME WAS HE SAID I COULD NOT USE THE BIBLE TO JUSTIFY MY LIFESTYLE. ( I GUESS HE MEANS I DRINK WINE, ETC.?) WHEN HE BRINGS MY KIDS INTO IT, I GET REALLY DEFENSIVE. I THINK HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN GOD BUT IF HE DID HE WOULD STILL BE AN SDA IS MY TAKE ON IT. BUT MY THOUGHTS ARE NOT CLEAR AT THIS MOMENT. NOT SURE WHY I WANTED TO SHARE IT EXCEPT IT REALLY HURT ME AND PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE. Now as to your long epistle of last week, I don't quite know how to respond. I know you are a sincere person, ____ but honestly it sounds like you are very unsure of just what to believe. What I would, in great love, urge you to do, is to be entirely honest within yourself about what you deem to be the correct way. I know you know that you cannot use any biblical reason to justify living a certain way. I think the only thing you need to be concerned about is the message your life imparts to your kids, don't you agree? They are so precious and you only have them for such a short time and whatever values are instilled in them now will direct them for the rest of their lives. In a very short time they will all go their own ways but from the day they are born till the day they die, your influence will affect how they live. You don't need or want me to lecture you on how to raise your kids and I sure don't mean to be doing that. I know you love those children above all else. I see it every time I come down there from you and _____. Don't let religion, in any guise, come between you and _____ and you and the children. I honestly don't know what is going to happen after we're finished with this life but I can tell you from painful, personal, experience, just how important a loving, nurturing, deeply committed, parent(s), mean in preparing kids to meet life with enthusiasm, ambition, and a healthy mental outlook. | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Susan 2, I would have to say it seems to be the way I see it and have thought it many times,Is there anything we can agree on. I am going to research that born again thing, that is taking a lot of liberty with what the Bible says but I do not have it at hand right now. Thanks for giving me somthing else to check them up on since my son-in-law is so closed mouthed, he's smart enough to know better by this time, ie not to tell me such things that he knows cannot be supported by the Bible. Carol |
