| Author | Message | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Welcome, Richard. I'm sure your daughter is a lovely girl. Read my numerous prayer requests and then know that whatever challanges arise with a teenager you have comaradarie on this forum. Again, welcome. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Hi Richard, welcome! Good to have you here! | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
Hey Richard, glad you are here. I too, am interested in hearing more about your church. I enjoy seeing how many different ways God leads and teaches all of us. God bless, Janet | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
My SDA preacher brother told me that the SDA church considers itself Laodicea. (I have also heard sermons preached on this in my church). I think they know something is wrong but can't figure out what it is. Here is what Revelation says about Laodicea. "(3:14) To the angel of the church in Laodicea write : This is the message from the Amen, the faithful and true witness, who is the origin of all that God has created. (3:15) I know what you have done; I know you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were either one or the other! (3:16) But because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I am going to spit you out of my mouth! (3:17) You say, 'I am rich and well off; I have all I need.' But you do not know how miserable and pitiful you are! You are poor, naked, and blind. (3:18) I advise you, then, to buy gold from me, pure gold, in order to be rich. Buy also white clothing to dress yourself and cover up your shameful nakedness. (3:19) I rebuke and punish all whom I love. Be in earnest, then, and turn from your sins. (3:20) Listen! I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into his house and eat with him, and he will eat with me. (3:21) To those who win the victory I will give the right to sit beside me on my throne, just as I have been victorious and now sit by my Father on his throne. (3:22) If you have ears, then, listen to what the Spirit says to the churches!" The key is in the last verse...They need to listen to what the Spirit is saying to the church. I agree with the above posts that the SDA church is lacking in the Holy Spirit. I feel oppression there. I feel fear there. These things cannot co-exist with the Holy Spirit. My husband and a new convert (former Church of Christ, married an SDA girl-converted) are doing the music. It is very spirit filled. they do a lot of Michael W. Smith, Phillips, Craig and Dean. I love it. I go for that only because once the children story starts until the sermon ends I am on total guard! Our pastor is like an inspirational speaker, we hardly hear the word of the Bible. To be honest, I have never heard an SDA preacher make any sense. They talk in circles and skip around never making a point. They use little scripture and our pastor uses only a few references to EGW (probably trying to keep the conservatives and liberals both happy). I end up reading my Bible the whole time. It is a big social club and always has been since I can remember. Noisey children drawing and playing with toys. empty cry room. People coming in and out during the service, cell phones ringing (many doctors there). Worship of the sabbath and the 10 commandments is rampant. No one wants to sing, the praise team has to keep saying "Everybody sing" and they don't. Big focus on money. Paying off the mortgage of the church has been the #1 focus as of late. They have started prayer chains, etc. I just want to say "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you!" They keep saying that once the debt is gone they can really be a church, reaching out to the community. Come on! That shouldn't be holding them back. I tell you I am sick of it. I don't know what to do. My kids and husband are so involved there and I do have some nice friends (who only know the SDA side of me, not the heretic side, haha)there. My kids go to their houses and spend the night, it is like a huge extended family. Yet, I am ready to give it all up. I will never return to bondage. Do I start staying home and miss my kids singing and the good music. That is the only corporate worship I get. They also have, at the end of the praise service, something called the garden of prayer where you kneel at the alter (kind of reminds me of the Catholics) but it feels good to go forward and declare that I love Jesus, this feels spiritual too. But then the damn sermon starts! AAAARGH! What to do? | ||
| Seekr777 (Seekr777) |
Thanks for all the kind words of welcome. It makes things special here.  Colleen, you are right my church is not in the normal mainstream of SDA churches. However one thing that God is constantly reminding me of is not to have pride in being different but keep my eyes on Him and follow where He leads. If that is different than others I am to take no thought of it other than to say, "Lord I want to follow you where ever you are and lead me." I find it so easy to talk about the error of others, rather than stay focussed on the Truth found in Christ. Doug and Janet, first it is sanctioned by the local conference which is the sanctioning "body". I find it interesting that all the churches I know of that have left the denomination have left over the overt issue of money and not theology. This seems to me to be messed up priorities.  Though it probably good for my church since it keeps us under the "radar screen". Our Theology while not kept a secret from anyone who attends is definitly not "fundamental SDAism". I've never heard a sermon here on 90% of the 27. People attend in all manner of dress and from all walks of life. I've seen pierced belly buttons walk in the door as visitors and welcomed with open arms. We have quite a few people attending who are seeking a victory over drugs etc. One man on my prayer team was at one time a drug supplier in the Redlands/SB area. Seeing the awesome changes in his life has been VERY inspiring. He leads a 12step group at our church. Susan and Sabra thanks for your encouragement and I look forward to maybe even meeting some of you in person. I've met Colleen and Richard already. God bless you all? Richard | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
This talk about funerals, I would just like to share something with you about our daughter-in-laws funeral of which her death was 12 ago tomorrow. She was only 26 years old and we loved her so much but we also know that she was ready for the Lord. Our son cried uncontrolably the night we went to view the body and said Mom I want her back and I thought what am I going to do with this poor child. You know you get your children to a certain point and then you think you can relax a little and I was there and then this. The next morning I went in to him and asked him how he was doing and he said"I'm happy" and to myself I said "Now what"since the night before he was in such a state of despair. I was not to find out until about 2 years ago what pulled him out of it. I thought as he shared with me that morning that he had talked with their sheltie collie and said "Mommys not coming back" and then she licked him all over as to say I know but we can do it, that that was what did it but what I found out was that I had said to him when he said "I want her back" I said " She wouldn't want to come back". Anyway the funeral, it was a wonderful tribute to her as she had left a marvelous legacy for us to tap into. Our God Reigns(her favorite) was sung by her Sunday School class with our son playing guitar and singing with them. Our son spoke and I spoke not knowing but only by the grace of God that I could do it. We closed the service with the long Mennonite version of Praise God from Whom All BLessings Flow (which was also her favorite and had been sung at the close of our church services for some time). So many people told us what a wonderful service it was and we gave all the credit to her and God. I still miss her terribly but I know that she is OK. In His Name Carol | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
Carol, I too, know of the pain of an untimely loss, not that any are really timely. Thank God, that this world is not our home!!! It still doesn't make our missing these loved ones go away, I'm just so grateful to know that we will get to see them again!!! Thanks for sharing your story. God bless you, Janet | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Carol, thank you for your story. You have experienced many difficult events during the past few years. Isn't it wonderful to be able to trust God as sovereign? That reality has really made a huge difference in my life. Praise God for redeeming all the events of our lives as we submit them to Him! Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Yes, Pheeki, what you write about the irreverance in the SDA churches is the same horn I've been tooting on this foru for quite some time. I will say that I have never heard a cell phone ring during a SDA service. I do see alot of children though during the service playing their Game Boys. Considering the SDA position on shunning secular activities on their Sabbath I just wonder how they justify playing Game Boys not only on Sabbath but in church during the service yet. I am just about to the point of believing it is the power of the Holy Spirit that puts so many in a SDA congreation to sleep during the service, like as if the Holy Spirit is sheilding them from so much untruth. It's almost also to the point that to me a SDA service seems on the spooky side. I am not at ease in their services. It's really an uncomfortable feeling I get. | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Colleen, Yes I have experienced some rough times but thru it all I have learned to trust in Jesus. During the days following our daughter-in-laws death Ro. 8:28 kept coming up and I have literally lived that verse from that time on claiming it over and over again. All things work together for good to them that love the Lord and are called according to His purpose. My daughter and I talk so many times of the pain that we have endured but thanks be to God because thru it all we have learned to walk so much closer to Jesus. I would not trade any of what we have gone thru to go back to the way things were,not because they were bad,quite the contrary, but because I have seen God's hand at work. The only thing I have ever wanted totally for my children is a relationship with Christ and I can now say with complete assurance I have seen that fullfillment. It has not come easily; one from the death of his spouse, our youngest from a divorce, and now our daughter who needed to find out for herself what God wanted from her and stand up to what she did in fact believe. I am so encouraged by all the posts here that express this very same thing and that is JESUS CHRIST OUR HOPE OF GLORY. Carol | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Here is an interesting post from the ACTs 17:11 website. Just change the name of Mormons to SDA and see what you think. Very interesting. The reason I use the Mormons as an extreme example is that most Christians understand that Mormons do not believe in our God, our Christ, our Gospel. Thus, there is no chance of them sharing in the Holy Spirit by grace. With me? Since God can only be approached in truth, and the Mormons are idolators and legalists, God's presence and power are wholly absent among them. As such, let us consider that some Mormon churches are growing, some are dying, some are friendly, some are rude, etc. All this "in the flesh"--as we have agreed at the outset that the real, living God has nothing to do with Mormonism. Now then; it is possible to compare the "growing" and apparently "alive" Mormon church with the dying Mormon church and detail the differentiations. By doing so, we can abstract interesting principles of "church growth". And these derived techniques will "work" after a fashion. But they will "work" by religious machination and the cunning of men, not by God's power. And right here is the point: How much of the current spate of (American) "Church Growth" teaching could just as well work for a Mormon church? Think about it. Where does God enter into this? Do we even need Him to make our church "grow"? Is He outside, knocking on the door? Has anyone even noticed that He is not inside? Anybody miss Him? Mormons have a form of "fleshly" fellowship, and this cannot be denied. It is a human camaraderie and reveling in the fading glory of men. It is based on demographics and social networking and legalistic shared values and so forth. And it is real. And it is not of God. But when we turn to a Christian church it gets more complicated. A Christian church might be being led by the Holy Spirit and working with His power in one area, and in another be of the power of the "Mormons"--i.e.: merely human. While God's power is available to all those who believe in Him in truth, will we walk in His or our own resources? It is my hope that by pointing out the extreme case of the Mormons it will clarify the option before us all--we can do nearly any spiritual activity via human means and schemes and energy (the "flesh"), or we can wait upon the Lord for His miracle of grace. What we consider real fellowship is where people who would otherwise hate each other really love one another by the presence and power of God; where there is forgiveness and longsuffering and gentleness and patience--rather than leader worship and human pep and "groupthink" and sociological stratification and get-em-committed church-covenants and tithing sign-up-cards and deacons-as-bouncers and guilt motivation and glorying in carnal charm or talent and other cult-like types of behavior. All such I term "Mormon"; and if our faith is unreal, then this is the only way to build a church. But if God is real and can live within us by faith, then why not abandon all these flesh-oriented programs and human-reliant marketing techniques... and let Him truly be Lord and God among us? A.W. Tozer put it this way: "If the Holy Spirit was withdrawn from the church today, 95 percent of what we do would go on and no one would know the difference. If the Holy spirit had been withdrawn from the New Testament church, 95 percent of what they did would stop, and everybody would know the difference." With all the talk of late about being "seeker sensitive", here's a daring thought: how about being "God sensitive"? Instead of catering to what people want, perhaps we should consider what God wants? Rather than conducting human-centered surveys to discern direction and mission, shouldn't we be asking the Holy Spirit to lead us? Instead of inclining our ears to church marketing consultants, might it not be better to consider the way of the Lord? Rather than brazenly, openly, and without shame trying to please men, why not aim to please the Lord? If we turn our focus from men to the Lord, perhaps He will really show up in our meetings. If He does, a few people might get uncomfortable, but those who are truly seeking Him will run with delight to be in His presence. Or, if we think it a better approach, we could just continue in the sleazy, man-made, humanistic, God-absent tricks and techniques of the "church growth movement" that would work just as well for the Mormons. 1 Thes 2:3-6 (NIV) For the appeal we make does not spring from error or impure motives, nor are we trying to trick you. On the contrary, we speak as men approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel. We are not trying to please men but God, who tests our hearts. You know we never used flattery, nor did we put on a mask to cover up greed--God is our witness. We were not looking for praise from men, not from you or anyone else. Gal 1:10 (Jer) So now, whom am I trying to please--man or God? Would you say it is men's approval I am looking for? If I still wanted that, I should not be what I am--a servant of Christ. 2 Cor 4:2 (NRS) We have renounced the shameful things that one hides; we refuse to practice cunning or to falsify God's word; but by the open statement of the truth we commend ourselves to the conscience of everyone in the sight of God. Eph 4:14-15 (NIV) Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Awhile back the discussion was if or not the SDA's accept the infalliby of the Bible. I really don't know the SDA position on this topic but I can share with you the Lutheran statement on this. This statement was established at a denominational meeting in 1932. Here it is (in part): "Since the Holy Scriptures are the Word of God, it goes without saying that they contain no errors or contradictions, but that they are in all their parts and words the infallible truth...". | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Today is Monday. Last Saturday I accompied my elderly mother to the local SDA church. Do to age and the difficulties that often come with aging my mom no longer attends Sabbath School but only attends the formal service and then stays for the social following the service. This past Saturday just topped off the term "absuped"(sp?) when referred to a formal Christan church service. Eight times (yes, I really did count) from the podium at the front of the church we heard someone in the front say, "Happy Sabbath". Frankly. I rather like the term, occassionally. But, eight times in a 40 minute presentation from the front is way, way too much. Twice during prayers given from the front there was a thanks given to God for the Sabbath. Once a young man thanked God in prayer for Jesus and the Sabbath because Jesus and the Sabbath help him to learn a greater understanding about God. Twice the name, Jesus was said at the end of a prayer, "In Jesus name we pray, amen". Another time Jesus was acknowledged as our saviour but this was not a major presentation about Jesus a our Saviour but rathe said in amention. Then the word "saviour" was used in a hymm sung. I assume even SDA's refer to Jesus when the word "saviour" is used in a hymm. In another hymm the word, "redeemer" was sung which I also assume rferrs to Jesus. And, that pretty much covered the entire preaching part of the 11:00 a.m. service. Then my mom asked me what I have learned at the Lutheran church that I couldn't learn better from the Adventist church. I replied "grace". She promptly got out a book by Pacific Press, I think by Doug Bachlor but I'm really not certain of the author but the title of the book is, "Outrageous Grace". My mom insisted I read it which I did, finishing it yesteday. It has got to be the most mish-mash messed up idea of grace I've ever heard of. Apparently grace is God giving us he ablity to read and follow the ten commanments as given on Mt. Seini. Thre was no real concept of N.T. grace in that book at all. The entire book jumped from one depressing story to another depressing story and then ended if we obey the 10 Commandments then will realize God's grace with the peace we have in our hearts knowing we aren't sinning. Actually, to be blunt, it was just plain stupid. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Susan, you're right about the SDA version of grace. It really isn't what Adventists say it is. Adventists do not believe that God really instituted a new covenant that replaced the old. They may use the term, but if pressed, they will refer to the Everlasting Covenant and say that what people call the New and the Old are really just different expressions of the same thing. Here's the confusing part: in a way, they're right. People have ALWAYS been saved by faith, not by works. That fact is everlasting, even if SDAs don't talk bout it much. And God's covenant with Abraham IS everlasting. But the Mosaic covenant with its rituals and holy days was a temporary, "living metaphor" to prepare people to recognize and accept Jesus. It was never intended to be more than a shadow. This is the part that Adventists do not acknowledge. Carol, on another thread you asked about Adventists using the same words but having different meanings. This covenant issue is one example. They literally change their public vocabulary every so often to keep in step with evangelical church's teachings. But behind the words is a private interpretation and a convoluted misuse of scripture that supports doctrines that cannot be supported from the Bible as a whole or in context. It all stems from EGW's Biblical interpretations, but they will never tell you that. They say every single doctrine of theirs comes right from the Bible, and they'll quote texts to prove it. The problem is that when you look up the texts and begin to read them in context, they do not say or support what Adventist theology says they say. It's actually quite crazy-making. That's why SO MANY Adventists disagree with each other about doctrines. Ultimately Adventists are united by a culture, the Sabbath, and the spirit of Adventism, not by the 27 fundamentalsówhich, nevertheless, is still the real and official statement of church belief! Clear as mud?! Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Yes, it is clear as mud. My mom got her new issue of the Review magazine in the mail today. Every article in this issue is about as clear as mud, also. There is a lenghly article proving their understanding of the state of the dead. Apparently the SDA truth on the state of the dead has led numerous Baptists, Methodists, atheists, and Catholics to the Adventist church. Once these folks realize how wrong their churchs are on the state of the dead and realize that only the SDA's have the truth on this subject, then they study the other doctrines of the SDA religion and further realize the SDA has the correct understanding of every Bibical subject and as a result get baptized as an Adventist. That much I do agree with, people who become SDA are baptized into the SDA religion. Not, as I believe they are supposed to be and that is being bapitized into the greater Body of Christ. Then there is an article by Lonnie Melashinko, and truthfully his articles never make any sense to me. Then there is a very small article about how much the SDA values freedom of religion. Well, this certanily has not been my experience and from reading the emotional problems so many of us on this forum are haing with our eloved family members, I am feel safe in saying that SDA's do not believe in freedom of religion. If that was the case then every one of us on here would hear from our SDA spouses and kin how happy they are for us that we have found a body of believes to worship with and commune with. But, having been raised SDA and then getting older and leving the SDA we soon realize that freedom of religion does not come down to the personal level when we embrase a different interpertation of Christianity than was taught to us as children born into SDA'ism. | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Tought I'd throw in a little something to get every bodies blood going. This is an article from the latest online issue of the Adventist Review entitled, "Why I am a SDA." It is written by an Adventist minister/evangelist. The "gospel" is mentioned in generic terms, but is actually referring to the "Adventist gospel." NO where else in the article does he mention salvation, fellowship with God, freedom, grace, etc. So anyway, here it is: SOCIETY IS CHANGING AS NEVER BEFORE. While the church would not want in any way to compromise its message to the world, yet there is increasing pressure for it to be culturally relevant. And a rapidly changing culture causes a quick succession of generational differences. We are conscious of the survivor, baby boomer, baby buster, and generation X differences. All of these have different expectations of the church. And questions are raised as to whether it's still important to be or to become a Seventh-day Adventist. In what follows, I share a few personal responses to this question. 1. Because of the gospel. The essence of all true Seventh-day Adventist preaching is found in the everlasting gospel, as expressed in Revelation 14:6. This is what Adventism is all about. All our major teachings are related to this one great truth. 2. Because of the Adventist view of the nature of humankind in death. Almost the whole world, both Christian and non-Christian, deny that death is really death. But because Adventists trust in Christ, we believe that we have life only in Him. The doctrine of the immortality of the soul is paving the way for the spiritualistic teachings of New Age and Eastern religions. The Adventist teaching on this subject effectively warns men and women of these deceptions. Likewise, we follow the Bible in rejecting the cruel view of God expressed in the belief of an eternally burning hell. It is interesting to note that in recent years some prominent biblical scholars who are not Seventh-day Adventists have come to realize the truth of what we preach on this subject.1 3. Because the Bible clearly teaches that the seventh day is the Sabbath of God. It amazes me that so many other Christian denominations go on record as upholding the Ten Commandments but do not honor God's Sabbath. In a world that is searching for meaning, the Sabbath reminds us that we have lost our Eden home but that God one day will give it back to us. Our rush-and-tear society needs the rest that God so graciously gave us, and the observance of the Sabbath is linked with our rest in Christ. 4. Because of the wholistic lifestyle the church advocates. This position is linked to the biblical view of the nature of humankind. Time and many surveys have vindicated the benefits of the Adventist lifestyle.2 I do not believe there is another Christian body today that has so much to offer in this area, although some have come to take note of the subject of health in recent years. It is important to see the health principles advocated by Adventists not as rules or regulations, but as benefits to our health, given by our Creator because of His care for us. If we really understand the gospel, we will want to honor God in our lifestyle (1 Cor. 6:19, 20). 5. Because I believe that God has given the Adventist Church a prophetic message. It's a message to be proclaimed to all the world, to both Christian and non-Christian alike, to prepare a people to meet Jesus. According to Revelation 13, there is to be a conflict at the end of time over the issue of worship. Who is to be worshiped? How is worship to take place? And when is worship to take place? The first four commandments of the Decalogue are all related to this issue.3 But obedience to God in this time of crisis must be and can only be as a result of knowing Christ and desiring to be faithful to Him. However we interpret the end-time events, the gospel is at the center. The end-time brings to light those who are really trusting in Christ in contrast to those who are mere outward professors. And There's More There are other reasons why I am a Seventh-day Adventist. I could add the sanctuary message and the writings of Ellen G. White, whom I see as an inspired messenger given to us by God. I am also proud of the work our church does to help the underprivileged through the Adventist Development and Relief Agency (ADRA). We should never claim we possess all the light that God wishes to impart to His people. Nor should we claim that we are better than Christians in other churches. We believe that God has true followers and believers in every Christian congregation.4 However, we also believe that God has commissioned us to preach certain great truths to the world, to prepare men and women to meet Jesus when He returns. Do I agree with everything in this church? No. At times I meet disappointments. I sometimes get frustrated over the slowness of progress. I wish that I could streamline our organization a little faster than it's done. Many times I come back to the point at which I ask myself, "Why am I a Seventh-day Adventist?" But despite the annoying issues, I am convicted that, according to the Bible, God has given this church vital truths to share with the world. Despite disappointments, many wonderful people within the Adventist Church encourage me. But most of all, I think of Jesus and what He has done for me. Though He was badly let down by His church, He went ahead and gave Himself as a sacrifice on Calvary. It is a passionate love for Jesus and the commission He has entrusted to us that keep me and others in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. "For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ" (1 Cor. 3:11, NIV). _________________________ 1 As, for instance, Oscar Cullmann, Immortality of the Soul or Resurrection of the Dead? (Epworth Press, 1962). 2 Seventh-day Adventist Health Ministries Department directors can provide reports from scientific surveys from many parts of the world showing that SDAs live longer, free of many common diseases. 3 The antichrist powers are breaking the first commandment by causing worship for someone other than God, Revelation 13:4-12; the second commandment by making an image, Revelation 13:14, 15; the third by blaspheming the name of God, Revelation 13:6. The fourth commandment is referred to in Revelation 14:7 and linked to the enforcing of a false time for worship. 4 See number 12 of the 27 Fundamental Beliefs-"The Remnant and its Mission": The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ . . ." _________________________ Graeme S. Bradford has worked as an evangelist and ministerial secretary. He holds a D.Min. and is currently a senior lecturer at Avondale College. | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Most Adventists would counter any criticism of the above article by saying that that is just one man's opinion, and not necessarily reflective of the bekliefs of the church, but the question I would have to ask is why it is being printed in the church's official newspaper if it is inconsistent with that the church teaches and believes. In fact, in the very same issue, Russell Johnson writes an article explaining why they pulled an article that had been published bpreviously because it made some comparisons of EGW to Adolph Hitler. I am not sure what the original article was actually about, but that is not the point. He said that the article was not consistent with the Adventist Review's position on the Holacaust. That tells me that the Adventist Review does have an official position, and only those articles that are consistent with that position are published. Hence, this person's "personal testimony" must be reflective of the Review's view of the Gospel and the Church. Doug | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Doug ROTFLUIH (Rolling On The Floor, Laughing Until It Hurts) My amusement is not at your expense, Doug. Rarely have I seen such a concise catalog with so many examples of ADS (Adventist Double Speak). It is like when, in the preamble to the 27, they say, ìwe have no creed but the Bibleî just before presenting an extra-Biblical document that fits every definition of the word ìcreedî I have ever seen. It is like when they say, tithing is not salvational, then proceed to assert that, by not tithing, you are choosing not to enter the Kingdom of God. Gee, I know of no way of entering Heaven other than by Godís saving (synonym to salvation) grace. Also, where is the scripture where someone is saved, but does not enter the Kingdom of God? Hmm. <strokes chin, thinkety, thinkety, think> As for the Review ìpolicingî articles. . . Ya think so, huh? Do ya think the Pope is Catholic, too? ;) | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
I am sorry, but when I tried to read that article it confused me! what does he mean about Jesus being badly let down by his church but he went ahead and let himself be crucified anyway...What church is he talking about? The Jews? In point 1 he talks about revelation 14:6 being the essence of Adventism (this has also been confirmed by my SDA preacher brother)but isn't it sad that Christ is not the essence? Point #5 is misleading. He is downplaying the Sabbath as the seal of God. However that plays out????!!!! You know good and well every SDA knows exactly how it is going to play out. They will be the remnant and all other faithful ones in the churches will be called to come out of Babylon and start keeping the Sabbath. And everyone else will have the mark of the beast! My mother brought to mind and EGW quote the other day...she said in the end many will leave the church but they will be replaced by "true believers". Which to me is saying- don't worry about anyone leaving...they weren't sincere anyway! I get so frustrated with their line of thinking. | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Its interesting that Revelation 14:6 is (always) used as the basis for Adventist belief in the Gospel. For those of you who may have forgotten what it says (that would have to be those who have never been SDA before, because this is the first verse most SDA kid's learn), it says, "and I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people." Based on this verse, would someone please tell me what the Gospel is? The answer to that question is quite simple, the everlasting Gospel (to Adventists) is the judgement hour message, which is centered in the Sabbath. Now, if the word "Gospel" means the good news,could someone please tell me where the good news is in that? That well worn passage ends with, "here is the patience of the Saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." I think I am beyond the anger, but sometimes I am embarassed that I was dooped into believing this stuff for so long. Doug |
