| Author | Message | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
Adventists are generally lost in the Bible whenever they are outside of their "inner canon" (the proof-text system). A well-known, elderly, life-long SDA lady told my wife recently that she cannot understand the Epistles--even though she has read them many times and her husband is a retired SDA minister. She faithfully reads selections attributed to Ellen White daily. Apparently, the "lesser light" is NOT shining toward the "Greater Light." This afternoon, at an SDA church in San Diego, California, Dr. Walter Rea made a presentation at the Association of Adventist Forums. Everyone was invited to bring their personal copy of the Great Controversy for writing in the margin. Dr. Rea was going to reveal all the deleted "I was shown" phrases in the GC before she quoted an uninspired source without giving credit. I have ordered the audio tapes of this meeting. Hopefully, today's meeting was not interrupted by loud, zealous Adventists as when Dr. Ronald Numbers made a presentation there about a year ago. One devout, red-faced SDA man, screaming with bulging veins showing on his neck, was forceably removed from the audience (LLU chapel). Dr. Walter Rea, a former SDA minister, authored the book titled THE WHITE LIE. Sadly, Ellen White holds the most tender, sensitive spot in the hearts of her adherents. The sensitivity factor about their prophetess even surpasses their passion for the festal Sabbath. Many zealots are brought to tears when hearing anything negative about her. Indeed, Ellen White is the apple of the Adventist eye. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Dennis, you are so right. Even those who say they no longer adhere to her are bound with invisible chains that keep them imprisoned. If there had been no EGW, there would be no basis for ADventism. Perhaps James et all would have come up with some other authority than her visions to establish the church, but her "visions" and pronouncements are why that church exist. Every single Adventist doctrine is colored by her interpretation or outright established by her declaration. When people say, as they often do in "liberal" areas like Southern California, that they no longer follow her, they go by the Bible alone, I just sigh deeply inside myself. All Adventists, even those young ones who have not truly been taught much about her, are bound to her and bound by her. It's kind-of like children of alcoholics. They are bound by the dynamics of alcoholism, they are vulnerable to alcoholism, and even if they never drink, they often grow up to behave like alcholics or like enablers of alcoholics. I do pray that the truth about Adventism will become known. In Jesus, Colleen | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Off the subject, but I need some info. Does anyone here know where I might find something like a former Unity church member website? Or someplace to get specifics on ministering to unity members? I checked the Watchman site and Gospel Outreach and came up dry. Yeah, it has nothing to do with the subject here, but I couldn't figure where else to but the question. ha | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Lydell, that is a good question. I actually don't know. I have a relative of whom I'm really fond who belongs to the Unity church, and I understand you concern. I know that there used to be (probably still is) a website called Apologia. It was a cult-information, cult-watching ministry. Also, in spite of my reservations about his views of Adventism, Hank Hanagraf (spelling?) of The Bible Answer Man might have some info. Hope you can find what you need. Colleen | ||
| Darrell (Darrell) |
The CRI website is at www.equip.org. I ran a quick search and found an article called "Oprah Winfrey and Her Self-Help Saviors: Making the New Age Normal" at www.equip.org/free/DN403.htm. I haven't had time to read it yet, but it does mention the Unity School of Christianity, and includes some footnotes which may be useful for further study. I hope this helps! | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Thanks guys, I'll check it out. The one article I found was very informative. I was hoping to find something from someone who had left to give tips on how to lead them to see truth. Have a girl in our church who has been there and she has come out to me with a couple of remarks that were quirky. She isn't the type to be there to spread her stuff around, just strikes meas someone who is extremely open to their particular brand of desception, she's very gentle and doesn't like to hear about bad things that happen. Yeah Colleen, I don't particularly care for Hanagraff myself. He seems to me to see a group who doesn't agree with some point of his personal viewpoint so he immediately brands them as heretical and attacks with daggers. I know some the stuff he has had to say about the Vineyard churches is bunk. | ||
| Windmotion (Windmotion) |
Hey, has anyone seen what Bachhiochi has had to say about the Great Controversy. Apparently he has discovered several historical errors in it, which basically means he is exposing Ellen White as a less than perfect resource. I forget his Web site address, but his recent newsletter has been abbreviated and discussed at the ellenwhite.org Web site. Is this a big break between him and the SDA church? Is he respected still in the church or is he considered off-the-wall? Interested in your thoughts --Hannah | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
I cannot speak to how the SDA church regards him. However, this is a place where an excerpt of the article is found. http://ellenwhite.org/gc1.htm | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
He is making a lot of SDA's mad. I'm excited about his revelations. Still keeping him in prayer! My mom thinks he is nuts. I think a lot of SDA's will disregard him, but according to the resposes he posted he has a lot of support from some open-minded SDA's. If anyone wants the newsletter, i'd be glad to forward it to you. It's long. sabrastone0539@msn.com | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
Yes, he's definitely one to keep in prayer. I've personally corresponded with him both on and off line. Although I've found him to be very stubborn, egotistical and very hung up on the idea that credentials behind a persons name determine the worth of their argument, he has softened his stances in recent years. There is just a cacophony of respected scholars (outside of the SDA church) that he corresponds with and respects that have been telling him over and over that he is wrong. He even finally relented and agreed that the verse in Colossians that talks about the 'sabbaths' is speaking to the Seventh Day Sabbath. I also noticed that he is now 'retired'---so he probably feels a bit safer speaking out now. The law generally will prevent a former employer from denying retirement benefits based on religious beliefs. I'm looking forward to seeing what other surprises the doctor might come up with in the months ahead..... Bill S. | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
Alright everyone, I chose this "topic" because I'm feeling that way right now, "Does one ever get over their SDA hang-ups?" Have any of you heard of the man who was recently resurrected after being dead three days in Nigeria? A man I work with who is also a part-time Pastor was just excitedly telling me all about it. I know there are miracles, and I hear that some countries experience many, many more than we do here in the U.S. I'm sure that is true. As much as I want to believe this story and praise God for it, the old SDA baggage actually causes me discomfort with it. Apparently this man was told by an angel that he is to come back here to tell his story in order to lead others to Christ. Also, he was shown hell while away from this earth, and saw people there, including apparently a pastor that might be well known??? These things caused me immediately to think about our being warned while Adventists of the dangers in not believing in soul sleep, and how dead spirits (or in this case one come back to life) would lead us astray, etc. I'm tired of believing in the New Covenant, the joy and peace it brings, and then when I hear a story like this having those old doubts surface, the fear that maybe the SDAs are right and I've been deceived, etc. I don't think I really believe that, but it's still there. I want it to go away!!! (Hence my choosing this topic.) I don't know if I'm making sense, am at work (ok, no reprimands) but wanted to get feedback from my "former" buddies. Have any of you heard of this story, know anything of its accuracy, how does it make you feel/what do you think about it? Thanks my friends, Carol #2 | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
OK, my fifth paragraph wasn't exactly worded well, but I hope you all know what I mean. I'm not tired of believing the New Covenant, I'm tired of the doubts that surface from time to time as the result of being "born and raised" an SDA! | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Carol, I know what you mean, every now and then I'm watching some preacher or something and I feel like they are so sincere and then I think how I would have viewed them when SDA, I'm glad I can just love and accept everybody and none of us have the whole 'truth', just the only truth we need! God can raise people from the dead, He did Lazarus after 4 days, why not? He is really working in Uganda and the country is now prodominately christian. We had a pastor come and preach from there a few weeks ago and he said they even play christian music in the banks and stores and all of the schools have bibles, hmmmm, that would make an SDA's head spin. They went from 95% AIDS rate to 5%, because so many are being healed, not because the disease just stop spreading there. It's very possible. I'd love to see it myself! | ||
| Thomas1 (Thomas1) |
Being part of a system like Adventism is almost like being an Alcoholic or drug dependent. I'm not saying it is the same....it is like that in that you are totally dependent on THEIR interpretation of EVERYTHING to do with belief. When you are raised in this envoirnment, it is only through God's grace that you will ever find your way out. The only way to be "free" of it is to stay away from it, as much as possible. Any contact is an invitation to doubt the freedom you have in Jesus. The problem is that for some, this is not possible. Spouses, siblings, other family members (even children) can be a powerful influence that is unavoidable. My remedy is to always keep the Cross dead centered in your vision. Always. In all things. Never forget what it really means, then remember what you were always taught it meant. Somehow, this always helps me put other "doctrinal" matters in their true prespective. One man's opinion. Based on a whole lot of years of living with the situation. We are always in His Grace! <>< Thomas | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Hi, I'm Sabra and I'm a former Adventist and the group answers, "Hi Sabra" For those of you not fortunate enough to have gone to AA meetings, everyone has to stand up and say their name and "I'm an alcoholic" I didn't go for myself by the way... Praise God we don't have to say we are , just we were! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Carol, I understand what you mean, also. I read a similar story in an old book by Indoesian Mel Tari who was part of the huge Indonesian revival in the '60s. The book was entitled, Like A Mighty Wind. I don't think we need to fear these things. They may or may not be true, and we can't know for sure without actually being there or personally knowing the eyewitnesses. Such things may be true, however. When Greg Taylor was in Uganda in February preaching and working with the Adventist pastors who had found the gospel and had been fired (they've formed a new, evangelical church), he prayed for and experienced many healings during his three weeeks there. If you read Proclamation published by Dale Ratzlaff, you may have seen his story there in the last issue. I do believe that God still does miracles and may even raise the dead if it glorifies him. My biggest question is, why do these things not happen HERE? I think the answer probably has something to do with our North American "inoculated" state against Christianity, or maby even because the gospel is still recognized when it's preached. Those "sign gifts" were given to the apostles to confirm the gospel. I believe God still does them when they serve that purpose---and maybe even other purposes which we don't necessarily even know. Praise God that he is sovereign! Colleen | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Hi Carol, You started your post like this: "Alright everyone, I chose this "topic" because I'm feeling that way right now, "Does one ever get over their SDA hang-ups?" And I just posted a post regarding the same thing but not SDA hangups, rather Jewish Holy Days. Here this Easter deal is upon us again and I'm afraid to celebrate it and afraid not to. Heck of a note--a regular catch 22 situation. Boy, these things that we have been taught can sure hang on, can't they? I wish I had some simple answer for you like some others seem to have but I don't. Just know, I know how you feel and will pray for you. your sister in Christ Jesus of Nazareth. Denise | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
okay,this looks like the closest tread to my comment and question.Today one of my close adventist friend called,haven't talked to her in a while,did't want the 'debate' with her.But she had heard Jerry was back in and asked why,if she may,wasn't I? I flat out told her it was b/c I questioned EGW and alot of her teachings.Just name one,she said.So I said the whole sancuary thing and the IJ.That the Bible clearly doesn't teach that Jesus waited until 1844 to enter the most holy place and that,that had led me to study some of the formers that have written about it.That was a mistake!Didn't I know that i was studing the wrong people!!Anyway,it was a long conversation,but what amazed me was that she said that she would get back with me on this issue after she searched her Bible for that passage!!!She'll be searching forever b/c it isn't there!So my ? is,what will she come back at me with,I know not anything that remotely says that he waited until 1844,but I know sda's and she will have something.Any ideas?? [And of course I got that whole lecture on how this is what EGW said would happen in the last days!] lol:] | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Main thing to tell her is the righteous aren't judged, our sins are cast into the sea never to be remembered so the IJ is ridiculous. Just remember that they are 'right' and nothing but God is going to change their minds so trying to show them something is a waste of time. | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Carol #2, When you say "former" buddies, are you meaning true formers or are you in reference to the FA forum? Don't want to go where I'm not welcomed, seeing as how I have been accused of throwing in Baptist theology like Baptist is an ugly word or something. I wasn't going to reprimand but enlighten with the word: Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. Lost my train of thought, so, I will close this now. I did find the guy's name though that I had asked about several times. His name is Bachhiochi, but I still haven't found that archived information that was pasted in a post that I wanted to copy for someone else to look at. Last thought--The antichrist will appear to be dead and then, three days later to imitate Christ's burial period, be taken over by Satan during the tribulation but this is all "anti/against" Christ and from all my studies the church will not go through the tribulation and/or the great tribulation that will come to ALL who inhabit the earth at his appearance. How could the church be here with ALL to receive the tribulation woes. The sealed are not those SDA Sabbath observers, they are Jewish priests anointed to preach the gospel of Christ to those who never heard it before. Janice |
