| Author | Message | ||
| Thomas1 (Thomas1) |
Angie, IF your friend is like most who have confronted me, then said "I'll look it up and get back to you", they never do. I think it is because, as you say, "It just ain't in the book!" Isn't it neet to have a faith based on the Bible, and the Bible, ONLY? <>< THOMAS | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Carol, I understand your skeptism. Been there with you. It totally offends the remnants of the old SDA teachings, doesn't it? But that isn't the only report of someone being raised from the dead. Bill Bright (Campus Crusade for Christ) was very much against the idea of these kinds of miraculous things still happening today. When my husband was on staff with Campus Crusade back in the 70's he was told that if anyone on staff got into speaking in tongues, they would be put out of the organization. The idea of signs and wonders was frowned upon. God could miraculously heal, and yet it wasn't something you were actually supposed to go around praying for, I guess. That's the mindset Bill Bright was very much settled into. Well, a funny thing happened to Mr. Bright. His organization put together a video on Jesus. It has been taken around the world and shown in a multitude of settings, not just in 'civilized' countries, but in the jungles and to people groups who have never heard of Jesus. Amazing things have been happening, and as a result, Bill Bright's thinking on signs and wonders has changed. See, there have been times when, while the video is being shown, the workers have had to stop the screening to cast out demons that have begun to manifest in people. They find that healings take place while people are listening to the gospel. And after watching the video, thousands have accepted Christ. Some of those have decided that, if Christ and his followers could pray for the sick and they were healed, then that is the way it is supposed to happen. So they go home and pray for healings too, and people are healed. And yes, they even have watched the story of Jesus raising the dead and so fully accepted that God has the power to do that, they too have prayed for the dead, and have seen some raised. Pretty awesome stuff. Our culture really is jaded. We feel ourselves too intellectual to need to actually see God do something miraculous to testify to the truth of the gospel being taught. But that thinking really does fly in the face of things that have happened all through the history of the church, especially during the times of great revivals. Hi Carol and Sabra, I'm Lydell and I too am a former Adventist. You do get over it Carol. You're just trying to find the middle ground between swallowing every story you hear and yet at the same time staying open for the Lord to show you who He truly is and what His power can truly do. In Adventism you were taught that He was a God sitting up there on a throne waiting to dump your sins back on you at your death if you slipped up. Now you are getting to know the God who so passionately loves you (and others) He is willing to do some really remarkable things sometimes to get your attention, touch your heart, free you soul, and expand your thinking about Him. | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Carol, Just wanted to give you this web site: www.intouch.org so that you can go and read this month's devotionals, they are ALL about the gift of Jesus, salvation by grace! This entire month's book of devotionals is centered around the Easter message. I thought they were wonderful reading, I get the book through the mail, so, I can read and study them at work during my free time but read them online to begin my mornings. Enjoy everyone, Janice | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
Thanks everyone, so very much, for your encouragement! Don't know what I'd do without this forum! My husband is wonderful, but never having been an SDA doesn't always understand my fears and doubts. No offense to anyone who was never an SDA. I love and appreciate you all! And yes, Janice, I just meant all my "buds" here on this forum. My husband is a Baptist boy by the way, an incredible Christian man, however we are currently attending a church that calls itself non-denominational but has Methodist roots. We are happy there for now and trust that God has us where He wants us. Thanks again everyone! | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Carol, Thanks for the include! By the way, I think we have all figured out by now that there is NO SUCH THING as a NON-denominational church, amen? What I as trying to say is that as long as a HUMAN "starts" something, it is started with "his/her" ideas, therefore, a "foundation" is laid for what is taught and, therefore, a NEW denominational church with the title "NON" is yet added to the list of names of churches, right? Oh well, for much for that insight, just thought I would throw it in this morning. I have been cleaning house and thought I would take a break and say good morning before it got evening. Don't the weekends fly by us faster and faster? I wanted to paste the following devotional for the Easter weekend to "remind" all of us who Jesus is and what he has truly done for us and is still doing for us, right? I once made mention that salvation is threefold: First, we were immediately saved from the death penalty that sin brought to us all, secondly, we have the Holy Spirit that leads us out of darkness and saves us from the controlling effects of sin in our lives "IF" we heed his tender love-song and this is a daily santification in our Christian walk but doesn't mean we "loose" salvation when we stray (more about that in further posts), and thirdly, in the last day we will be totally freed from the very presence of evil when Satan and his demons are cast into the lake of fire with all those who choose to follow him instead of listening to the gentle call of the lamb. That is the "Baptist" doctrine concerning "eternal security" in summation, and is based on the "truth" found in the word of God for ALL to study out and get it permanently fixed in their heart. What a blessed peace when we can take hold of truth, amen? For any who have strayed from God's service, please read the following devotional and pray for guidance from above, Jesus is calling you back to the fold, rebuke the devil and cast off any hateful thoughts that rob you of your joy and seek the Lord while he may yet be found, the night is dawning and we will soon be called home to rest in the Lord and feast at the marriage supper of the lamb, amen. I, for one, am listening for the trumpet that calls me home in the rapture regardless of what anyone else chooses to believe, so, I will pray for those who think of the subject of the rapture as merely a topic of debate. I am not debating it, just waiting for it, amen!!!!! If we ask for wisdom, God gives it in "great abundance" to ALL who seek, seek and you shall find, amen and amen. Hope you all enjoy reading this and have a great Easter everyone: An Expert Searcher For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. (Ezekiel 34:11) This He does at the first when His elect are like wandering sheep that know not the Shepherd or the fold. How wonderfully doth the Lord find out His chosen! Jesus is great as a seeking Shepherd as well as a saving Shepherd. Though many of those His Father gave Him have gone as near to hell's gate as they well can, yet the Lord, by searching and seeking, discovers them and draws nigh to them in grace. He has sought out us: let us have good HOPE for those who are LAID UPON OUR HEARTS IN PRAYER, for He will find them out also. The Lord repeats this process when any of His flock stray from the pastures of truth and holiness. They may fall into gross ERROR, sad sin, and GRIEVOUS HARDNESS; but yet the Lord, who has become a SURETY (I think I will do a study on this word, sounds good to me) for them to His Father, will not suffer one of them to go so far as to perish. He will by providence and GRACE pursue them into foreign lands, into abodes of poverty, into dens of obscurity, into depths of despair; He will not lose ONE of all that the Father has given Him. It is a point of honor with Jesus to seek and to save all the flock, without a SINGLE exception. What a promise to plead, if at this hour I am compelled to cry, "I have gone astray like a lost sheep!" I will be posting some of the devotionals from this month's InTouch devotional about the marvelous love of Jesus and his grace that is "all sufficient". HAPPY EASTER!!!!!! Janice | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Lydell, I got on the Google seach engine and keyed in apologetics and got "many" items that ALL of us can go to but since you specifically asked for Unity, well brother, here it is for you: http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/unity.html I am going to go back to it and read up, wow, maybe I should have been at this site instead of spending hours keying from my "little" pamphlet. This site has the cults from A to Z and speaks volumes, happy hunting through it and hope this helps you. God bless, Janice | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Lydell, Here is a cut and paste of the Unity declaration: We have studied many isms, many cults. People of every religion under the sun claim that we either belong to them or have borrowed the best part of our teaching from them. We have borrowed the best from all religions, that is the reason we are called Unity. . . . Unity is not a sect, not a separation of people into an exclusive group of know-it-alls. Unity is the Truth that is taught in all religions, simplified. . .so that anyone can understand and apply it. Students of Unity do not find it necessary to sever their church affiliations. How's that for a "church"? Wow, doesn't that look like pride and arrogance to you? Is is little speeches like this that make me feel compelled to post concerning "humility" and when I read excerpts like I just posted here, well, God help us all, please Lord, help me. Janice | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Welllll, I'm real convinced by that, aren't you Janice? You read the stuff they print and it is all a bunch of feel-good words with no substance whatsoever, and most is just downright WEIRD! Actually, I have the same reaction to any of the new age type stuff. Their writings have this creepy effect of like lulling the brain into la-la land. Wondered if anyone else had ever noticed that. Thanks for that addy, looks like one I hadn't come across before. | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Lydell, I am glad that you gave the question, it helped us both grow in our faith, didn't it? Too bad some people just don't understand what these opening lines on the FAF really mean: This forum is intended for former Seventh-day Adventists, those Seventh-day Adventists who are SERIOUSLY STUDYING THE VALIDITY OF THEIR BELIEFS........ We are told in scripture to STUDY and what better way of study is there than to truly do what this verse says here: 1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. I believe in Romans 8:28, it is what I quote every time I feel the fiery darts of Satan being hurled at me by people who sometimes don't even want to admit that they are allowing Satan to use them. How about this verse: Jhn 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. Some people want those of us who speak the "truth in love" to be cast out of the "synagogue/forum" for our boldness "in Christ" and I answer this "If God be for us, then who shall be able to stand against us"? I will continue to post about God's marvelous grace, his precious son Jesus who gave his life for me and to ALL who "BELIEVE" in the "finished works" of the cross, amen and amen. Looking forward to our family reunion at the marriage supper where I can give each and everyone of you a "holy kiss" and godly embrace that are faithfully looking forward to HIS appearance in clouds of glory, bring his saints with him, blessings to all of my brothers/sisters in Christ. Janice | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Dennis, You are right, some would die for EGW and are all too ready to kill their own flesh and blood in her defense. It is like I said above, some will think that they do God a service in defending "false" prophets. Believe me too that I am NOT boasting with the remark "we will see", the thought makes me sad to think that some just won't see the simple gospel of grace and will give that last pitiful plea of "Lord, Lord, didn't we......." but it will then be eternally too late! Have a blessed Easter Janice | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
I received an email on Good Friday from an SDA friend about Easter. I really started not to read it but...I did. It was written by a man who was tired of Saturday being ignored in the 3 days of Easter. Good Friday gets recognition and Sunday is the resurrection day but Saturday-"the day Christ rested" gets pretty much ignored and he felt it was high time Christians focused in on it. Totally a Sabbatarian view. Then he closed the email with a misinterpretation of Hebrews 4...He stated that there remains a Sabbath like rest for us...using it as a proof text for Sabbath keeping. My blood pressure sky-rocketed! It made me feel very sorry that he felt the day Christ was in the grave was so much more important than the day he rose. I then thought back to most of my Easter's as an SDA and honestly, I don't remember it being a big deal. I attended an SDA service today and it was just an everyday sermon with a little bit of the resurrection thrown in at the end (just a few lines about it). I was terribly disappointed and told my husband I was thinking of finding a Sunday service so we could really celebrate Easter. Why is Easter so downplayed by the SDA's? Is it that way everywhere? Does anyone have any memories of Easter services that were meaningful and truly celebrated Christ's accomplishment? Just wondering. | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
Pheeki! Good to hear from you again, I was beginning to wonder what happened to you! I hope all is well.......... | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Pheeki, Praise God this old Baptist girl has many, many blessed Easters in her memory bank and am truly sorry that the SDAs don't have them. I know that you were speaking to the formers but thought I would just praise God anyway, amen. I am certainly not talking about the Easter egg hunts or the fancy clothes, but I am talking about how at our church, during the entire month prior to Easter Sunday, we have a small cross on our rememberance table in front of the pulpit where we have the bread and wine (Welch's grape juice, that is) sitting when we have holy communion and this cross has a purple cloth draped across it until Easter Sunday when it gets replaced with a white cloth. Many of you have probably seen this same kind of display in many church yards during this month too. The purple is symbolic of Christ's majesty while the white one is symbolic of his purity and also to remind us that when his blood is applied to us, our sins though they be as scarlet, shall be washed and made WHITE as snow, praise God, and a third implication would be that it is symbolic of the grave cloth that he was wraped in for his burial and is shown to reveal his victory over death and the grave, I like that thought the best, don't you? We will be going to a Sunrise Service in the morning at 7:30, followed by a fellowship breakfast in the banquet hall. Many find fault in the fact that some churches have a sunrise service because they consider it "sun worship" like the pagans did in the Old Testament, but it is like I heard someone ask once "if the pagan churches had square doors, would we make our church entries round just so we wouldn't "look like" we were pagan? The same thing is said of the wearing of a wedding band. The SDAs suggest it is also pagan since the prostitutes in the pagan temples often wore them as gifts from their lovers, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to show the world that I am married by wearing my gold band which is a symbol of our never-ending circle of love, praise God. I will be starting a thread concerning some of the pagan rituals that have entered into our holiday celebrations if anyone says that they are interested, but I do plan on posting this month about "what is humility" and also about "God's abundant and sufficient grace" and will say good night for now so that I can get to bed early and get rested for the early service. Love to all and have a wonderful Easter celebration, I do hope that you will all decide to find a church to celebrate Jesus in, amen. Janice | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Pheeki, From my limited view of Seventh-day Adventism, I see a consistent de-emphasis of the significance of Easter. It makes sense to me from the perspective of the major beliefs you see about judgement expressed in their doctrine. In a very different sense than he intended, I can agree with your corespondent about the seventh day not getting enough emphasis. I see it this way: On the sixth day, Jesus died for our sins. We, in mainstream Christianity, say that this was one perfect, final sacrifice for all, for all time. On that day, darkness blotted out the sun; the curtains to the Holy of Holy was split, the stones broke. This marked the end of the Old Covenant, the ministration of death, the dispensation of condemnation. The price had been paid for all. On the seventh day, Jesus was dead. He lay in His grave. I suggest that this is can be viewed as a confirmation and a transformation. It took him away from this world, away from among us in the flesh on the most important day of the Old Covenant. Yet He was with us, in spirit, even on that day. ìI am with you always. . .î What a fitting statement about the demise of the Old Testament! How important that day was! In Him, we were, with Him, dead to the condemnation of the flesh. On the eighth day, Jesus rose from the dead. Hosanna, in the highest. This was the greatest day of all. For, on that day, we all became alive in Christ. Yet, without the other two days, the last day has less meaning. Without the seventh day, we could not have moved from the sixth to the eighth. Without the Law, we could not have moved from the Fall from Grace to the Gospel. How sad that your corespondent does not understand that the best day, the most important day is the day of rebirth. I suspect that although he may wish more emphasis was placed on the day after the crucifixion, he would not place that day over any other Sabbath. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Pheeki, Hi again! Absolutely, Adventists downplay Easter. Since salvation wasn't finished at the cross but continued in 1844, Easter is just another spoke in the salvation wheel. They have to have Jesus as an example, they have to have his death in our place, they have to have the resurrection so they know they'll rise again, but they can still be lost if their characters aren't perfected. Easter really isn't such good news when it's just one more steop in the complex process of being saved. Further, I am absolutely convinced that since most Adventists are not born again, the significance of Easter cannot impact them because it is a spiritual significance, not an intellectual one. I praise God that he continues to make the days of Holy Week and especially Good Friday significant to me in new ways. I never understood as an Adventist how people could genuinely feel sad and literally like crying when they contemplated Jesus dying. In fact, I actually thought Good Friday was a Catholic invention and was somehow irreverent. Praise God for revealing himself to us! Colleen | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
I finally found a church!I went today and what a blessing it was.Of course Jerry down-played it and said some things,but I went anyway!But before I went I was watching tv and a preacher named Fredrick Price was on and he was talking about good friday and Jesus' resurrection,I have a question.The Bible says in Mt.12:40 that Jesus would be in the tomb for 3days and 3nights,like Jonah was in the whales belly,then in Mark8:31 and John2:19,says that he will be 3days.Okay, if he was crucified on Friday,say noon,then how could he have been there for 3days and 3nights?I do not doubt that in the gospels that when it says the first day of the week,I know that would be sunday,but when it says 'preparation for the Sabbath'how could it possiblly be the 7 day sabbath if he was in the tomb for 3days and nights?That preacher was talking also about all the other Jewish festivals and how they were called Sabbath and no work was done on these Sabbaths either.Well it blowed my mind and got me studing,I ran it by Jerry and just thought that I was tring to down the 7day sabbath.So have any of you guys ever studied this?? God Bless...Angie | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
yea Pheeki,where have you been??Glad you are back!!! Angie | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Wow, where was I earlier? I just read this part of a sentence from a post of Janice's: "Many of you have probably seen this same kind of display in many church yards during this month too." I haven't but next year i'm planning to find some Church somewhere so for once in my life I can see what goes on during a Resurrection Day service. Colleen, I haven't read all the posts nor the entirety of any of them but this day must be a big celebration in the Churches from what I'm hearing. You did make one comment though that I don't or didn't know about. Something about SDAs don't believe in Easter. Remember Arleta, our friend? Well, last year I was at Arleta's home for the Resurrection weekend (you know how I'd spend my weekends there) and before her Church service she was frantically trying to get dressed and at the same time make this easter basket for her little great grandson. And me, having never seen how they are made, paid careful attention to this little basket she was making. :::::I'm chuckling thinking about this:::: So she even boiled eggs and at that point I had to tease her and asked "Now Arleta, are you positive these are the vegetarian ones?" She hit me! ::::I'm laughing over here folks cause you would have to know me and Arleta's relationship:::: Anyway, last year I thought for the first time I'd get to an Easter service with her. Even if it was SDA, I was more curious on what goes on at Church during a service on the Easter day. But, circumstances had it that her family came by and there was not enough room in the car for me to go with them, so I stayed at Arleta's and waited for her to come home. When they came back, they were telling me of what a beautiful service they had and about all the Easter stuff that went on in her Church up there (you know where Colleen). So apparently some of the SDA Churches have an Easter day. But what I didn't know was that they don't celebrate the Resurrection! Yipes! How can a Church not celebrate the Resurrection? So what does the Easter day mean to them....wow, now I'm really curious for being so dumbfounded considering I was an SDA. But then again, I never attended Church then either on the Easter Day. But not because I don't believe in the Resurrection. Without that, we'd have NO Hope. BUT!! This sounds like a good thing to do so next year I'd like to come to Church on the Resurrection day service. But tonight, before I had read this thread, I had written how my day went this Resurrection day and it has been one BEAUTIFUL day with NO contortions or hardly any pain! Can you believe it? It's very true and maybe this is God's way of telling me something about this Resurrection/easter day deal. Course, I've always always believed that Jesus Christ Rose again. That's never been a problem with me and this easter day. Just like I was saying in the other thread, it was my childhood and what I was taught. But you know...my dad always knew that Jesus Christ had risen because I remember him and my Grandmother (his mother) always arguing over the OT vs NT. Yeah, one of those situations. Still, my dad knew it and so did I. Why we didn't have it, had to do with eggs and things. But not a different belief about the Resurrection. Boy, I'm a rambling maniac tonight..sorry. It's just been such a Great day that I'm so thankful to God for this day! HE HAS RISEN! Glory Hallelu-YAH! your sister in Christ Jesus of Nazareth. Denise, who hopes everyone had a good day celebrating our Lord's Resurrection! | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Thanks to all who have noticed I have been absent for a while. Thanks for all your responses. I guess I shouldn't lump all SDA churches together because there is another church in my area who puts on a rather spectacular Easter service...of course they are known as a very liberal church. My brother attends there and he hasn't a clue about EGW and he says he has never heard her mentioned there. Anyway...I am still fuming about this email so I decided to pass it along to you all so you can see what is making me so mad. Strange, at Easter! While the Christian world celebrates the resurrection of Jesus at this season of the year, it might be interesting to note the following: We talk about "good Friday," the day on which the Saviour died. While churches are describing the "last words" of Christ, it might be nice to think about what they don't talk about. According to the gospels, Jesus rose from the dead early the first day of the week, on what today we would call "Easter Sunday." All over the world this weekend people will celebrate the resurrection. But what about the day in between "Good Friday" and "Easter Sunday?" Look at Luke 23:56. It is described in Scripture by the gospel writer as the "Sabbath day according to the commandment." Isn't it strange that no one wants to talk about God's Bible Sabbath-the day when Christ's followers "rested?" All through the new testament that day is the only one mentioned (even after the resurrection) as the Sabbath, the New Testament day of rest and worship. Even Paul tells us in Hebrews 4:4,9 that the Sabbath rest remains for the people of God. Anyway...there it is...I have no idea why he throws in Hebrews 4 here...also notice above where he says..."Churches are talking about Christ's last words" but he thinks we should be talking about the Sabbath instead. | ||
| Thomas1 (Thomas1) |
To be very pragmatic, let's look at the picture from the followers of Jesus' eyes. Friday, thay had seen Jesus, the one they truly believed to be the Messiah, arrested by both the Jews and the Romans, something which indicated a very serious attack against the state. They had seen Him beaten beyond recognition. They had seen the throngs of citizens call for His crucifixion and call down curses on themselves to get it. They had seen Him paraded through the streets like a common criminal. They had seen Him nailed to a cross, a penalty restricted to only the most serious of Roman criminals. They had seem Him DIE, and be placed in a tomb under Roman seal and guard. Even more was their own situation. One of their own had betrayed Him, and they had been with Him at the time of His arrest. One of then had attacked an official of the Jewish government with a weapon. In short, they KNEW that their identities were very well known to the same people who had murdered Jesus. After the clamour of the Passover celebration, what value do you thnk they placed on THEIR lives? Even more was the guilt. They had been with Him all those years, yet despite their claims of loyalty....at the time He needed them most, they had slept, then ran like cowards into the night. They had left Him alone to face ridicule, and torture, and trial, and death In their minds, all that they had hoped and planned, for three years together was over. There was no kingdom. There was no throne to be to the right of left of. there were no special positions in the Messiah's government. There was a dead King and a government who had declared Him guilty of treason and blasphemy. They were not deciples of a King...they were wanted criminals with a price on their heads. Now I ask you, do you really think they went home and "rested" on that Sabbath Day? I believe the reason why nothing is said of that day is because it was a day of horror, and terror, and guilt, and total mind numbing fear! When the joyous realization of the Ressurection and that most wonderful of days really dawned on them, the horror of that "blackest of Sabbaths" really is something they wanted very much to forget. And on that first Sunday evening of the Christian era, He came to them and said "Peace be with you." "Touch me and see that I AM REAL." Thank God for the message of Easter!. As an SDA growing up, I never knew the message. Easter was a day to celebrate the pagen symbols...chocolate bunnies, colored eggs, silly baskets, and a day to ridicule those silly "Sunday worshipers" who were duped into "keeping" one of the Pope's holidays, like a pagen. There was never a mention of the Cross, or the empty grave. No terror of a "good Friday" or joy of an Easter morning. What a loss! What a blessing that God's Grace has given me at this time of my life. Thank God for the love that only He could give in a special way on that special day! Easter. Allways, In His Grace! <>< Thomas |
