| Author | Message | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
Adrian, may the Lord strengthen you to stand against the attacks of the enemy. May you be filled with the power of the Holy Spirit as you exercise the spiritual disciplines that form the armor of God. May you be renewed and refreshed in body, spirit, and mind. May your ministry be blessed abundantly in a harvest of souls. I ask that other believers would come together in agreement in praying for blessings, protection, and strength for you and your ministry. I ask this in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Chris | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Amen! Praise God for the healing of the tumor! I hope you will be encouraged to know that the Lord is using you in a mighty way and your reward is not here. You are a faithful witness for Christ and I pray that the Lord blesses your ministry. Thanks for all the info. I never knew there were so many different SDA's. I will continue to pray for you and your church, may the Lord increase your flock and bring truth to light there. Keep us updated. | ||
| Cindy (Cindy) |
Adrian, I can picture you way over there! (I'm on the west coast of the U.S.A.) I was in Hungary once; even stayed at a "Zoltan"s home (I assume that is a common name there?) and I swam in Lake Balaton...:-) Warm and shallow with a smooth, sandy lake floor. Good place for a baptism! One lunch I ate at a "Pizza Hut" that had a large mural inside of Hollywood movie stars! I also bought tablecloths and jewelry from traveling merchants (gypsies?). Budapest was a very beautiful city at night, I remember. I also went a few hours away to an underground hot springs...lots of fun in there! Finished with the best (and cheapest) half-hour back massage I've had ever. May you continue to rest in God's care and leading. He will stengthen you once again with His Presence and He will be your joy! grace always, cindy | ||
| Doc (Doc) |
Hi Cindy, Nice to hear you have been here in Hungary! Zoltán is a common name, yes. Balaton is great for baptisms, we usually do them there in summer as it is warm, and only about 20 minutes away. We sometime pop down for a swim in the evenings too. In winter, it usually freezes over completely, so you can skate on it. There are lots of hot springs here too, and thermal baths dating back to the Turkish period. I have also been once to the west of America. I had an uncle who lived in Seattle (he is dead now) and a cousin in Oregon. We also visited Vancouver. The scenery is really awesome! God bless, Adrian | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Adrian, I have been so encouraged at various times by Paul's personal suffering recorded in 2 Corinthians. It wasn't the physical suffering he seemed to most suffer from: it was the personal rejection by church members who formerly had loved and listened to him--who had been saved because of his evangelism. I've concluded that one of the ineveitable results of surrendering to God's assignments is "persecution" of a personal nature. Slander and lies seem to spring up about everyone who is committed to Jesus and to speaking for him. The painful fact of those former members spreading lies is deeply discouraging, but you can be assured that their attacks are part of the enemy's attempts to prevent your persistence in speaking for Christ. Because we are the literal body of Jesus on earth (His Spirit is in us individually and also collectively as believers), we take the arrows for him when we work for him. I am praying for God to protect you from evil, for his Spirit to encourage and strengthen you, and for confidence and peace in your heart. Colleen | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Susan, You asked this in part: "Deniese, where in California do you live? I'm in California." You have mail my friend!  Blessings and Peace in Christ Jesus. Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Dear Adrian, You had posted this in part: "I must say I am feeling a bit discouraged today. We seem to have so much opposition, and it is mainly from people who call themselves Christians." That's usually who we get the most resistance from I'm noticing. It's not the unbelievers so much as the ones who call themselves Christians. Prayers have been sent up to God so I hope that it's a little better but if not, then I pray that your not feeling so discouraged today. You also asked this: "P.S. Denise, do you still think you would like it here? :-)" You bet! I be there in a heartbeat if I could. That's the truth. Thank you for telling us all of your journey and what it's like. Very interesting and there's no way you can go around saying "I'm bored." You wouldn't believe how many people in the United states say that! All the time too. It drives me nuts and I want to put them to work cleaning my floors or walls or something..hehehe. Blessings, Hope and Peace be with you Adrian, in Christ Jesus Name, this is my prayer for you today. amen. Denise Gilmore | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Dear Adrian again, You said this: "Hungarian has, "Életedet adtad oda." Then asked this: "OK, just for fun, can anyone tell me which bit of that sentence means, "your?"" Just a wild guess but is it "det?" or "oda?" I have no clue as you can see, but it was worth a shot to try. God Bless your ministry! Denise Gilmore | ||
| Terryk (Terryk) |
Dear Doc I am feeling your pain. I have been going through something inside myself. It seems crazy. I have a new church and it is great it is just I look around and see the christians almost the same as SDA they mix in their circles and send kids to pribvate schools and homeschool. I am not saying there is anything wrong with this its just are we really doing the work of the Lord just staying with each other? I am not sure how even to write this or what is going on in my head. I feel like the church teaches grace and Chrsit but Maybe I expect too much from christians or people who say they are. I still feel they have not understood the grace that they have and they cling to 10 commandments. I just feel like I am just there observing and not a part. I prya that this is just part of my journey I sure do not want to feel so critical of christians I just want to know Christ did not surround himself with just the Holy did he not have the worst people in his pressence? Well if anyone can give advice send it. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Terry, I understand what you're saying. I also see many Christians clinging to the 10 Commandments and not really being actively involved in growing in the word of God. Ask God to show you his will for you. Ask him to bring to you the work he wants you to do. Whether or not the people around you are stagnating, you do not have to. Also, ask God to send into your life friends and mentors who can help you grow and who may even share a vision for the work God brings you.. He is very faithful about providing what we need to grow and to become who he's created us to be. With prayers for you, Terry-- Colleen | ||
| Terryk (Terryk) |
Thank you for your prayers and thoughts. I just want to stop feeling so critical and just not belonging anywhere. Sometimes I think I am losing my mind. I am ok with God and the relationship with him. I am just having a problem with man and his idea of what church and christians should be like. I do appreciate your prayers and advice. And wonder if others have ever gone through this part in your journey out of the church. I am one year and a few months out and do not feel quilt or anything like that it just seems to be another step . | ||
| Bmorgan (Bmorgan) |
Terry, In my opinion/experience what you are going through sounds normal. For a long time after I left, I felt like an observer, not belonging to the congregation where I worshipped. Even though every one was sweet, I felt they did not understand my "spiritual dysfunction." It takes time moving on to wholeness. The critical (ambiguous) feelings!? to me it is a left over from the adventist spirit.Several times I would vigously shake my head and say; "I am not a seventh day adventist." More and more as I began to Understand and experience freedom in Christ, I was able to allow people to enjoy their God-given right to make choices different from mine. It may be true that there are cliques,but consider also that many of the people have had a longer bond. I remember the number of times I felt so isolated yet it was nobody's fault. The church we attend has a membership close to 4,000, and now, five years later, it feels small to me. Maybe it's because we belong to a small group and I work in the 6th grade Sunday school. I currently attend a weekly Bible study at another church. For two years I attended the Community Bible Study (CBS) group. I met ladies from many different churches in the area. I enjoyed a kinship that was beyond my wildest imagination. The youth pastor at our church encourages high schoolers to attend Public school. The church runs a private school. Some kids go on to Public high school and come back to finish. There are a fair number of homeschoolers. It is wonderful that there aren't any guilt trips or bad feelings towards one another regarding the education choices people make for their kids. Besides, we are challenged constantly to live our faith. I am getting less and less frustrated when other christians don't seem to unserstand the place of the 10 Commandments. Maybe it's because the subject is not crucial to me anymore. I am big on finding a good, healthy, bible teaching congregation, big or small. | ||
| Terryk (Terryk) |
Thank you that means alot to me. Its funny I was sent to some old letters here by accident I think God sent me there to reafirm that others felt this way too. I just am glad to know I am not loosing my mind. I think Its not the groups yes they have been together and are frinds. I think it is that I just do not want people to be so caught up in church that they forget the lost souls out there and if they stay with each other and do not want to meet sinners what is our purpose.? Well it still is hard and I still feel a loss in my heart for many things friends a certain amount of what I thought was truth. It has been some long ride. Thank God for his love and always being with me no matter what. Thanks again for all my friends out there and there prayers. Please keep it up I feel my eyes were opened today. Love Terry | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
Terry, I wish you could attend our church, an Evangelical Free church. Our website (www.firstfreelincoln.org) headline banner declares "WELCOME HOME! You've found a place to believe, belong, and become all that God intended for you." Indeed, we are a very busy church family. We truly trust each other; we need each other. We are not socially-mandated to say that we are fine when we are not. We feel comfortable in sharing and praying about our joys and sorrows. We have Christian love for one another. All in all, it a church worth bragging about. We are about to embark on FORTY DAYS OF PURPOSE when we will meet in 100 homes for about six weeks as we study Rick Warren's book, THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE (What on earth am I here for?). Sylvia and I have more opportunities for ministry than we can accommodate in our busy lives. In addition to teaching a Sunday School class as a substitute teacher, being greeters, assisting in serving communion emblems, etc., we recently cleaned the house of a young mother suffering from liver cancer as a Christian courtesy. She and her husband attend our Sunday School class. After the Elders anointed her, she is steadily improving healthwise. Sylvia and I have never felt like we were merely spectators. We have been invited to social events and to individual homes for meals. Both the pastors and elders have sent us cards indicating that they prayed for us on that very day. Additionally, a handwritten note from a pastor assured us of their Christian love for us. On behalf of the church, a couple was assigned to visit us repeatedly as we assimilated into the church family. I realize that not all churches are equipped with so many ministries. From the start, we have felt like we belonged there. Being greeters has helped us get acquainted with many of the 1000+ worshippers. It is amazing how many names we remember from week to week. This also helps us recognize newcomers or visitors. | ||
| Doc (Doc) |
Denise, Colleen, Terryk and others, Thank you all for your prayers and encouragement. I have felt much better the last couple of days. OK Denise, Finno-Ugrian grammar lesson - Életedet - means "your life." Broken down as follows: Él - verb "to live" -et - noun marker - so Élet = "life" -ed - suffix meaning "your" -et - suffix marking object of sentence Many words are built up like that, it takes a bit of getting used to. You mentioned being bored. Actually, I don't recall having been bored for a very long time. It can be hard going being a Christian sometimes, but boring - not. I would never have done lots of exciting things I have done in my life if I had not got saved, like living in a village in Hungary for one. I probably would have been a dull, absent-minded academic in some university somewhere. I once had the experience of visiting people in Romania one week, and ten of us all sleeping on the floor in someone's flat, and the following week I was having dinner with the sister-in-law of an English pastor friend of mine, in Budapest on business, in one of the most expensive hotels in Bp. I had a phone call yesterday out of the blue, offering me a week's work interpreting for an English team, with all expenses-paid, 5-star accommodation in Bp, and a rather nice wage on top. Wow. I have to start tomorrow morning, so I had to rush round finishing off work I had, and sorting church out for the week I am not here. Good job (= blessing) that there is a great team of elders! Boring - not. Terry, Don't be discouraged. Many church-goers don't really understand fully what it means to walk with the Lord, not just SDAs. You just hang on to your relationship with Christ with all you have got, and you will definitely not go crazy. As Colleen said to me (paraphrased), anyone that really wants to live for Christ will be persecuted, tested, tried, pummelled, etc. Just make sure you hang on in there! God bless, Adrian | ||
| Seekr777 (Seekr777) |
Dear Friends, I don't post here often but do check in to read the posts as I have the time between my class work. I need your prayers on several issues but do not feel released to give complete details as I might want to. Part of the reason is I'm not sure if I am able yet to share the issues and facts in the right spirit. First I need prayers for my family. My daughter is 17 and going through her rebellion against God and family right now. She is involved in an inappropriate relationship at the moment which pains me greatly and the only thing I can do is lift her up before God in prayer. It is so hard to stay loving when I feel so hurt and pained. My wife is not a Christian (Jewish, NOT Messianic) and can not understand my Christian outlook in many things. She can be so hurtful at times and she considers me passive when I choose not to respond in kind to her hurtfull words, not that I'm not tempted. Lord give me the patience and love to continually show forth your love at all times. My third request is why I'm posting in this topic. Some of you know where I attend church and while it is an SDA church I have the opposite problem from what many of your are struggling with. Over the last several months our pastor has been preaching a message very close to "universalism" IE: in the end ALL will be saved. Along with several other texts he referrs to the text where in the end "every knee will bow" at His coming. I questioned one of the men in the church who meets with him almost weekly and his comment was he felt our church was called to preach a "radical grace" message. He has also inferred that if you need to, just throw out parts of scripture since not all of it was necessarily inspired. I almost feel as if a message is being said that if you don't agree then don't accept it. I'm right now looking for scripture and texts to better understand the issues to make sure what I believe personally. Any help from others would be appreciated. As you can see we are not traditional and definitely not works oriented. I don't believe we are saved by our works but I do believe God will hold us accountable for our relationship with Him. Richard Truitt rtruittca@earthlink.net I check this email daily and my AOL address very seldom. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Richard, I understand your anxiety about the apparent universalism you're hearing. I remember the first time I heard such an idea from an Adventist, and it confused and troubled me. I've come to believe that the idea that most people who are "sincere" will be saved is heresy. We've been studying Romans both in our Friday night group and also in our sermons on Sunday, and Romans is very clear that absoltuley no one can be justified before God apart from faith in God's promises fulfilled through Jesus. The first three-and-a-half chapters of Romans outline in detail how Jews and Gentiles alike--in other words, those with special revelation through the law and those without that law--are equally lost. The law did not bring anyone closer to righteousness. Romans 3:9-18 summarizes the characteristics of all humanity. Both "Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin." He lists a collection of metaphors from the Psalms describing the malicious and lethal behavior of all mankind apart from God. Then, in verse 19, he says, "We know that whatever the law says, it ways to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God." Verse 20 follows this pronouncement with the observation: "Therefore, no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become consious of sin." Verse 21 finally presents the good news: But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify." Verse 19 is not merely saying that people who live by the law will be accountable to God. He is saying, as he summarizes the first 2 1/2 chapters of the book, that those with the law have an advantage; they have special revelation. Even this special revelation will not give them an edge. Those without the law, he says in Romans 1:18-32, have suppressed the knowledge of God, and God has given them over to their lusts and sin and self-indulgences. The wrath of God is being poured out on them through their own habitual sin. They are clearly lost. Those with the law, however, are equally lost. What verse 19 says is that the day is coming, when Jesus returns, that everyone, both those who scorn God and those who believe they have an advantage because they have the special revelation of God's word, will be silenced before the justice and wrath of God. ANYONE who has not surrendered his heart to Jesus will fall in silence before God, finally acknowledging that he is sovereign and true and just. They will have nothing to say to him; they will hide before him and be accountable to him. Only those who have the righteousness from God--through faith in Jesus--will be saved and unafraid to meet God. While the rest of the world falls silent before him in acknowledgment of his true sovereignty, those who know him will be ready to meet him with joy. As for scripture being partially uninspired--if one believes the Bible to be the inerrant word of God and if one believes its own statements about itself to be true, such an idea cannot stand. I'm praying for you, Rihcard. Colleen | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
Richard, one of the biggest problems I see with universalism is that it discards large portions of the Bible, most notably much of what Jesus had to say about Hell. Jesus discussed Hell more than he discussed Heaven. This should give us pause. If all are saved no matter what, then Jesus was wrong when he taught the many would be lost. If Jesus was wrong about the lost and about Hell, then He could not possibly have been God in the flesh, the God-man. If Christ is not God, then how can we depend upon His sacrifice. If we cannot depend upon His sacrifice then no one has any real assurance of salvation......not even in a universalist sense. It is an incredibly slippery slope we start down when we decide we'll believe the parts of the Bible we like and throw out the parts we don't like. No one like the thought of Hell, but this should only make us thankful for the assurance of life we have in Jesus and inspire us to take the Gospel to all who have not heard or have not yet accepted it. Chris | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Chris, that is such a good point. Adventists don't have a very hard time discarding parts of the Bible becuase they really don't believe it's the inerrant Word of God. They say it's the INFALLIBLE word of God, but during the past forty or so years, a distinction has emerged in theological circles between infallible and inerrant. Those who hold the Bible to be infallible say that its principles and teachings are true, but the words themselves are not inspired (although the writers were). Those who say the Word of God is inerrant (in the original manuspcripts) hold that God inspired the writers and oversaw the words they wrote so that we can know the message is EXACTLY what God wanted us to know. ADventists say the Bible is infallible because they claim EGW was inspired the same way the Bible writers were inspired, and they know they've had to edit her words to keep her looking more or less consistent. Therefore, they can also interpret the Bible in simmilar ways, considering some parts to be applicable today and some parts to be culturally irrelevant while other parts may not have been inspired at all. I remember hearing that Psalms and Proverbs probably were less inspired than, say, the prophets. I'm in awe today as I realize how many of the Psalms are Messianic prophecies. Also, if one reads the wisdom of Proverbs with the thought in mind that in the Bible, Jesus is identified as the wisdom of God, suddenly Proverbs makes sense as a book that meshes perfectly with many other books in both testaments. It's not merely good advice; it is consistent with the whole New and Old tTestaments. If a person doesn't see the Bible as truly the 100% equally inspired word of God, he becomes able to rationalize almost any heresy. This, I fear, is how the teaching of universalism has emerged. Colleen | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
I think universalism is also a function of the age old human desire to make gods for ourselves in the image we want. We want a god that has the attributes of love and mercy, but not the attributes of judgment and justice. We want a god that will force us all to come to Him in Heaven, but will never allow any of us to choose seperation from Him in Hell. We want a god that reflects the moral relativism of our culture. We want a god that understands that sometimes it's just easier and cheaper to abbort a baby than to deal with all the problems. We want a God that's tolerant enough to support the practice of homosexual unions and the ordination of actively homosexual bishops. A god less tolerant than this would be embarrasing, narrow-minded, and way to absolutist for our friends. We want a God that we can understand, not a being that eternally exist in three persons. That's way too confusing so let's stay away from that theological stuff. Let's make a God that fits our ideas in all these areas, then perhaps let him give us 10 simple rules to follow and then we can feel good about ourselves and him. The problem is, once we've created this God we're worshipping something that can't be found in the pages of scripture........it's our very own golden calf. Chris |
