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Debbie
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Username: Debbie

Post Number: 50
Registered: 7-2000
Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan_2

Actually, there's plenty of non SDA scientific evidence to support a young earth including that Dinosaurs existed AT THE SAME TIME as humans.

In fact, biblically speaking, I believe, as do many other creationists, that Job 40 and 41 speaks very clearly not only about dinosaurs but especially about dragons. For example:

Job 40:15-17 says,

"Look at the Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
What strength he has in his loins,
what powers in the muscles of his belly!
His tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of his thighs are close-knit."

(now some commentaries have said this is possibly the hippopotamus or the elephant, but really this makes no sense, when you consider what kind of tail hippos and elephants have--little, teeny, skinny, things--certainly not tails that "sway like that of a cedar!")

In Job 41, Leviathan is spoken of in vivid detail:

1"Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishbook
or tie down his tongue with a rope?

7"Can you fill his his hide with harpoons
or his head with fishing spears?
8If you lay a hand on him,
you will remember the struggle and
never do it again!

12"I will not fail to speak of his limbs,
his strength and his graceful form.
13Who can strip off his outer coat?
Who would approach him with a bridle?
14Who dares open the doors of his mouth,
ringed about with his fearsome teeth?
15His back has rows of shields
tightly sealed together;
16each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
17They are joined fast to one another;
they cling to one another and cannot be parted.
18His snorting throws out flashes of light;
his eyes are like the rays of dawn.
19Firebrands stream from his mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.
20Smoke pours from his nostrils
as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds.
21His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from his mouth.

24His chest is hard as a rock,
hard as a lower millstone.

26The sword that reaches him has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.

30His undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving atrail in the mud like a
threshing sledge.
31He makes the depths churn like a
boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of
ointment.

34He looks down on all that are haughty; he is king over all that are proud."

Commentaries have a REALLY good example for this one: a crocodile--yeah, right...I don't know about you, but I've never known or heard of any crocodiles who've "looked down on the haughty,"(verse 34), since they're kind of short, you know what I mean? :-)

Besides that, I've never heard of any fire-breathing crocodiles either (vv 18-20, 31)....Have you???

No, I think that since we all know that God's word is pretty straight forward...I think we can trust that if it is describing something that looks like a dragon and sounds like dragon, it probably IS a dragon.

(For the record, I can also see that this chapter is also referring figuratively to Satan as well, but I believe that God's word has such profundity to it that the more it is studied the more is discovered, as I believe this is a perfect example.)

Anyway, I have, however, heard many stories and legends about dragons and man coexisting, particularly in England. (King Arthur for example). This biblical account really helped to make all of those dragon legends start to make more sense to me.

The more I study God's word, the more I realize that many, if not most of the supposed myths are just distortions of the original historical reality. For another example, the Legend of Atlantis is a distortion of Noah's flood.

It's really quite exciting, to me at least, to realize just how amazing and trustworthy God's word truly is.

I have never been SDA, and I feel sorry for anyone who would find it necessary to make up such a lame-brain story about dinosaurs, when there is so much evidence, biblical AND scientific to support that dinosaurs existed.

Debbie
Pheeki
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Username: Pheeki

Post Number: 312
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My friend email'd Doug Batchelor and called him on being dishonest for repackaging EGW's last few chapters of DA and renaming it "the Passion"...he stated very specifically how to hand these out and he told his public to say that you are lending the book not giving it away so that you can feel comfortable asking them about it later...he said to approach people with..."All the violence in this movie makes me uncomfortable...would you like to read the real story." So one might think he would hand them a bible...wrong! The repackaged DA...funny he condems embellishing and then hands out the biggest embellishment ever written!!!!!

By the way...one of his workers email'd her back and said Doug would be answering her email as soon as he could...we are still waiting since early March.
Praisegod
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Username: Praisegod

Post Number: 56
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe we should keep calling the SDA leadership accountable when we find things like this going on. When I received the reply from Focus on the Family re using Dr Dobsonís name in the evangelistic meetings, I printed out a copy and asked my husband to hand it to the evangelist, which he did. First the evangelist tried to claim the conference knew all about it. (And that makes it right?) Finally he said heíd ìcheck into it.î Since he doesnít know whether or not I gave his name to FOF, perhaps heíll run scared enough to modify his ways in the tiniest bit.

While Iím not out witch hunting by any means, I do believe when we see or hear things like this, we need to be responsible ourselves for calling them to account for the deceptive practices..

Praise GodÖ
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 568
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've always wondered how come they push the book, Steps To Christ so heavelly when Jesus just says, "Come unto me all you who are weary and of heavy heart and I will give you rest". At Monterey Bay Academy my Indroctination (Bible) teacher assigned us Steps To Christ to read. I kept flunking the tests he gave us on the book. Finilly he asked me if I'd even been reading the book and I told him I had never opened it. He asked me how come as it was required reading for his class. I told him I didn't need to read Steps To Christ to learn about Jesus. I had a Bible. I flunked Indroctation class but I got fairly good grades in all my other classes and it turned out that it didn't matter anyway because the next year I went back to my local public school and they didn't even count the "F" I got in Indroctination when figuring my g.p.a.
Kme
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Username: Kme

Post Number: 23
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Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for your postings above. I have not yet seen The Passion. I am very sensitive to violence, I have difficulty with any, and have been reluctant to go see it. I think now I will wait till it comes out on video, but I do want to see it. I watched a documentary on how it was made and cried through that! I'm sure it will be very moving and I want my son to see it when he is a year or two older.

I didn't realize till today where my idea came from that Dinosaurs didn't really exist! Since I was in SDA schools all the way through, it must have been there. I remember when my son became so interested in Dinosaurs and I was shocked to find out that they really did exist and that the bones in the Museum of Natural History in NY weren't man-made! Then we got a hold of a video made by an Adventist that talked about how EGW wrote of imalgamation (sp?)of species, and that this is why the Dinosaurs did not survive the flood. They had not been created by God. I guess this was an attempt to give religious explanation of scientific fact. What a bunch of bunk!

Thank you Jesus for showing us the way out!
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 600
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just went to Samuele B's website to read for myself what he has to say about the movie. I am not going to e-mail him my thoughts about his thoughts because I have done that previosely and his replies to me are put-downs implying that I'm not too bright or I'd see things the SDA way and then the rest of the reply is commercials to purchase is books. So, I will give some thoughts right here. He says numerous times in the articles that the movie is too violent, way more violent than the Bible indicates. Well, I saw the movie and it is way less violent han the Bible teaches. In Isaiah 52 it says He will be marred beyond human semblance, and His form beyond that of mortals. Well, I have news for Mr. S.B., the movie never got to an extent of violence that Jesus could not be recognized as human. He also lumps The Passion of the Christ, the beheading of Nick Berg and the prisoner abuse scandel at the Abu Grade Prison in Irqu as the same, in theory and as in actual wickedness. I've got news fo him-the United States is a good and decent country made up by an arge good and decent people and NOTHING that went on in that prison by our service people compares in any teeny bit to what took place there regarding violence while that facility was under the control of Saddam Hussian. And, our officials will deal with the perpertrators as they need to be delt with. Under S.H's regeim torturers got promotions. And, as far as the beheading of Nick Berg goes-well, it just makes me want to see our country crush terrorism and that evil all that much more. S.B. says watching this violence has the same effect as being under the influence of morphine. To me it just makes me want to go vote for elected officials that will take care of the problem once and for all. I think the man is a bit bent, if you now what I mean. Does he even have any credibility left with the SDA population? Or, is he a has-been by now?
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 123
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just read the posting by Doug where he copied a letter from a lawyer to S.Bacchioci. I know the lawyer and his family. I am glad he went to see the movie. I just pray God did get ahold of his heart and changed him after seeing the Passion of Christ. I will have to check with friends.
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 635
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Several days ago I went to a local supermarket. On the benches in front of the store someone had left three books. The books are titled, "Passion of the Ages" by, E.G. White. When did EGW write a book called, "Passion of the Ages"? The back cover of the book has a long quote by Mel Gibson on it. Don't you think this is really underhanded and misleading? Generally when I read the quotes on the back covers of books I interpert those quotes as an endorsement of the book. Then at the back of the book are these cupons to send in. One is to order the Discover Bible Studies. Another is to order the Annoying Fiction Bible Studies (otherwise known in SDA circles as Amazing Facts Bible Studies). It also has an ad for The Quiet Hour studies. Nowhere in this entre book is the SDA denomination mentioned. In fact, this is what the statement on the back cover right next to the Mel Gibson quote says, "In these few provocative words, producer, Mel Gibson captures the story of the passion of Jesus. (Acts 1:3). However, within the pages of this book you will find yourself seeing through the eyes of an inspired writer. Ellen G. White, 1827-1915, is considered one of the world's most widely translated authors. Her literary carreer spanned seven decades, with over 25 million handwritten words on a variety of topics. Read and be blessed." Dang, I guess EGW is a modern day Shakespear with all that writing! Also in the back of the book on page 154 is this quote, "In the Bible, John states at the end of his book about Jesus, "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written, Amen." John 21:25 and then he adds, "The publisher of this book is convinced that the inspired writings of E.G. White are some of those books of which John speaks." Colleen, I already have one wrapped up to mail to you in tomorrows mail. To me these are very deceteful books. Have any of you others seen these around? If so, comments? I assume this book is endorsed by the SDA church as it says, "Printed by Review & Harold Graphics" on the bottom of the second page. Just to what low levels will they stoop to?!
Cindy
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Username: Cindy

Post Number: 579
Registered: 7-2000
Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, That is deceitful... really unethical, dishonest.

I haven't seen that particular book, but I was given a similar one by an Adventist relative entitled "The Passion of Love". It is "adapted" from "The Desire of Ages", published by 'Amazing Facts', and has a cover scene of the gold-orange three crosses like Mel Gibsons' movie advertisement.

I guess a lot of this is going around; I'm sorry for those who may have been duped into Adventist lies by these books--often handed out at theaters right after the "Passion" movie.

May the truth of Jesus prevail....
grace always,
cindy
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 343
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I haven't seen the books, but I agree with Cindy. It's a horrible deception, and its designed to mislead peole when they're vulnerable. I find it interesting that it advertises Amazing Fact, Discover and The Quiet Hour--all independent Adventist ministries. The bit about EGW being one of the most translated authors sounds like rhetoric I heard when I worked at The Quiet Hour in the mid 80s--not that such rhetoric is exclusive of The Quiet Hour!

You're right, Susan--if it's printed by R&H, then the church has given tacit approval. Their official ploy, though, is to say that if they did not produce the book, merely printed what someone else produced, then it is not an official SDA publication. (That's the argument they have use about The Clear Word. It's not an official church publication--uh, right. I always want to ask them if, using that argument, they would consent to pubish Jehovah's Witness or Mormon materials?)

I'll look forward to receiving it, Susan!

Colleen
Pheeki
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Username: Pheeki

Post Number: 336
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My friend went to doug batchelor's website and confronted him on what he openly admitted were his techniques for witnessing...you were supposed to pretend you weren't giving them a copy of the repackaged DA but were to tell them you were loaning it to them so you could have an excuse to follow up with them later (to get your book back.)

His rep responded to her and said Doug would get back to her but he never did...she is still waiting. He told people to stand out front of the movie theaters and stop people leaving the movie (plus he made it perfectly clear he had seen the movie at a "special" screening for clergy in an auditoruim...not a movie theater) and say..."What did you think...did you think that was violent? Now let me share with you what really happened." (paraphrased) and hand them the book.

I think it is really dishonest and I am sure Mel would be appalled that he is being used to market "another Gospel".
Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 51
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know about you guys, but this type of practice makes me sick.
I don't get nearly as ruffled about non-Christians who do not have the call of the Holy Spirit on their hearts doing deceitful things, (I mean, what do we expect? they are NOT CHristian!) as I do when i see supposed followers of Christ practicing underhanded and deceitful behaviour.
I'd like to knock some heads together!
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 347
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tanya, I know how you feel. It's so WRONG!!

I have a wonderful, spunky friend who taught with me at Arrowhead Christian Academy. She makes me laugh--she's 60-ish, tiny, has really curly hair, wears flower decals on her toenails, is of Spanish heritage, is chairman of the Spanish department, and came out of Catholicism several years ago and is--quite in contrast to her physical appearance--a spiritual giant. She has a prayer that she frequently prays that I believe is powerful and applies to this Adventist deception: "Father, please bring whatever is hidden in darkness into light."

I do pray that the truth about Adventism will become known. But God is at work; more and more people seem to be questioning and leaving. My sense is, also, that the church is beginning to tighten its grip on local pastors and churches. At least it looks as if in this conference that's happening. I think more and more Adventists are having to grapple not only with whether or not they'll be Adventist, but whether or not they will embrace Jesus. Leaving, as we all know, does not necessarily mean finding Jesus.

We need to pray.

Colleen
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 180
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow!! I have said before and I will say it again, SDAism is very deceptive and subtle. I wonder if Mel Gibson knows how he is being used? I wonder, can he sue for his name being used without his permission? I would like to send him a book. It blows my mind that people that I used to revere are not the people they pretend to be. I say pretend because they will lie outright.
If one has the truth, why lie??? It must be because they do not have the truth.
Diana
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 643
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Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana, my e=mail is: susanan@webtv.net Write to me and I will mail you one of the books. Then if you want you can send it to Mr. Gibson, or whatever. Besides, I have only ever gotten one e=mail. It might be fun to get another.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 465
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 7:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Susan,
By the time you read this I will have sent you an e-mail. Thanks.
I had forgotten I had anything here and found it a month and one half later.
Diana
Krista
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Username: Krista

Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with everyone about the misleading quotes on this book. They must have had Mel's permission to use his quotes... did anyone ever find out?

When searching Google tonight to see the Passion of the Ages book, I found another one: The Passion of the Messiah! Here's the link, and it's also available at the AdventistBookCenter.com.
http://www.wwc.edu/campus-life/church/homepage/SharePassion.html

How many Passion books can there be?

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