| Author |
Message |
Doug222
Registered user
Username: Doug222
Post Number: 471
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 7:32 am: |     |
I was looking at the on-;ine Adventist Review (found at www.adventistreview.org) and I could not help taking a peak at the cover story, which is titled, "The Allegiance I Owe." It was interesting, to say the least. Allow me to post the summarizing paragraph:
quote:Allegiance to my church means that when I disagree with the church, I have the freedom to make my point of view known. It means that when I make my point of view known, I will do it in a way that reflects my fundamental allegiance to my church and will not bring harm to my church or to the members of the church. It means that if the church at large does not agree with my point of view, I do not maintain my point of view to bring discredit to the church. It means that I may have to put my point of view aside for the time being, or maybe forever. If in my conscience I cannot do that, and if my church does not agree with my point of view, I do not have the ethical right to disseminate my point of view, causing disharmony and dissension. To cause disharmony and dissension while insisting on my point of view after the church, through its legitimate representative process, has decided differently is an act that calls into serious question my allegiance to the church.
Wow! I am speechless. Someone, please tell me this is not saying what I think it is saying? While you're at it, can someone please explain why the Church felt the need to make this the cover stry on its official magazine? Could it have anything to do with the mass numbers of people who are leaving the church on a daily basis?
In His Grace (and one who refuses to be silenced)
Doug |
Hoytster
Registered user
Username: Hoytster
Post Number: 46
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 9:23 am: | |
According to this link:
http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:jpfpeLNzoccJ:www.adventistarchives.org/docs/Stats/ACRep2003_PresentationNotes.doc
The Adventist church is growing rapidly. Two quotes of interest:
1) Our average daily membership increase of 1,569...
Retention IS a problem, though, according to the second quote:
2) Our Membership Retention Analysis is tabularly and graphically illustrated in our second insert.
The statistics depicted here are sobering.
For every 100 new members who joined our communion in 2000, 20 left; 25 per hundred left in 2001; 23 in 2002 and 25 in the first two quarters of this calendar year.
Over the past five years, a ratio of 23 leaving for every 100 baptized negatively impacted our growth potential.
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Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 495
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 2:52 pm: | |
Yes, my mother gets The Review and I read the article at her house. I think the author is saying to just stay SDA and shut-up. |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 218
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 2:56 pm: | |
I can't site statistics for this so I could be worng, but I used to hear discussions while I was still in the denomination to the effect that the SDA denomination is growing very rapidly, but this is coming almost exclusively from growth in third world nations in South America and Africa. I have heard that North American growth is basically flatlined. I would guess that the birth rate basically balances out those who leave. |
Cindy
Registered user
Username: Cindy
Post Number: 543
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 5:46 pm: | |
Doug,
The author's viewpoint is directly from EGW... In that same "Review" issue there is a excerpt from those "wonderful" "Testimonies"! And obviously "church" to her is not the universal body of believers but is the "Seventh-day Adventist Church"...
"God has made HIS CHURCH A CHANNEL OF LIGHT, and through IT He communicates HIS PURPOSES AND HIS WILL. He does not give one an experience independent of the church..."
"THE CHURCH IS THE CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION. Those who boast of personal independence need to BE BROUGHT INTO CLOSER RELATION TO CHRIST BY CONNECTION WITH HIS CHURCH UPON THE EARTH."
(vol.3)
Oh well, as my husband says, what do you expect when you read that magazine?!....
This cultish mentality really does dethrone the SUPREMACY and SUFFICIENCY of JESUS ALONE!
grace always,
cindy
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 87
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 7:16 am: | |
I also saw that article online last week, and yes, Doug, it's saying what it sounds like it's saying. As I read that article, I was also thinking about what Cindy mentioned above; to the author (and to EGW and to the denomination), the church is the SDA church. That fact is one of the less-subtle but still veiled realities that keeps the Christian community from perceiving what Adventist really mean when they talk. The words sound close to right, but they mean something different entirely.
And yes, that article is distinctly asking people just to live with their cognitive dissonance and to play the game for the sake of "loyalty" and "getting along". Once again, it sounds like a noble plea, but it's promoting a false foundation: loyalty to the SDA church over loyalty to Jesus and the word of God.
Colleen |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 219
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 7:30 am: | |
Good point Colleen!
Amazingly enough, the EGW quote that Cindy posted has a good of truth in it and is quite orthodox *if* "the church" refers to the worldwide body of believers and more specifically any local flock/congregation within that larger body.
However, when "the church" is redefined to mean one single denomination that supossedly composes "the remanant" and is the only denomination to have all "the truth", then EGW's statement becomes cultic indeed.
Chris |
Rey_cantu
Registered user
Username: Rey_cantu
Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 8:23 am: | |
my brothers and sisters, this is great material. great topics to talk about.
this week end I was in South Texas. giving one of my motivational seminars for the Mexican Companies. One of my associates call me and told me that there were two medical doctors, former sda that wanted to meet me.
I rush to the place to see my brothers. It happened that in 1979 we were together in montemorelos univ. They were supper happy that they were not the only one to think egw was a false prophet.
Dr. Lopez told me: "My wife and I were doing home schooling and we were reciving the material from a non sda school. we had to go to a seminar on the sabbath about how to do home schooling. when the church found out , the church board call me and told me to stop! that my children were to recive only donominational material , that we were not loyal. to stop or I would loose my membership in the church. "
The doctor quit. His wife too. This happened 3 years ago. All this time they have been alone.
they were happy to see us. that is why I believe in my heart to make a former sda reunion, a rally every year and we can do it in different parts of the USA or in the future why not in different parts of the world. (
(The sky is the limit! We can do any thing threw Jesus! Fil. 4:13 we must just believe!! and take acction.)
former sda need to hear;'"WE ARE NOT ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
that is our slogan for this July 30,31, 2004, in dallas, texas.
This March 30, we will be in Montemorelos , mexico, giving a seminar "Why did I stop being a sda member "
montemorelos is where the sda univ. is.
I believe we are going to start a group there in May. Because there is another group from saltillo, mexico, coming to this seminar.
It is unbelievable how this message of true is spreading like wild fire into the spanish world.
to God be the glory!!!!!!!!!!!!
You will know the truth and the truth will set you free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we are rising the flag of freedom in texas and mexico!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
freedom in jesus!!!!
God bless every body here and pray for us.
in his joy,
rey cantu |
Carol_2
Registered user
Username: Carol_2
Post Number: 142
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 9:59 am: | |
Thank you Rey for your enthusiasm and love of the Lord. I needed to read your post. For me it was a message from the Lord!
Love and prayers to all, Carol |
Rochelleradclif
Registered user
Username: Rochelleradclif
Post Number: 12
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 4:00 pm: | |
Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts
about where to place our allegiance as Christians.
It puts me in remembrance of the first and greatest commandment which is to love God with all
the heart, soul, mind, and strength.
There is a real battle in my life sometimes to
keep other things and other people out of that
place of supremacy in my life which only Jesus
should fill. I don't know if the struggle is
greater because of having believed in Ellen
White doctrine/Adventist doctrine or if having
being delivered from the system makes me more
sensitive and aware of the struggle.
I do know that hearing from other former Adventist brothers and sisters gives me added
strength to remain loyal to Jesus Christ and to
the scriptures. That is my foundation for then
reaching out to the rest of the Body of Christ
with love and honor.
Rochelle |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 11
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 9:26 pm: | |
When I decided to not rejoin the SDA church this past January, I felt like I was the only former SDA in the world. Then God directed me to all the web sites on the Internet and I found all of you. I do not feel so alone any more. What I have heard from all that I have written to has encouraged me. You have encouraged be in many ways and I thank you. I was wondering about our Spanish speaking brothers and sisters and it sounds like God is working with them also. Thank you God.
Muchas Gracia Dios. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 164
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 7:58 pm: | |
Rey,
Where in Dallas is this Former Reunion going to be on July 30,31?
Can any one else answer that??
Diana |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 104
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 9:42 pm: | |
Diana,
The first annual Former Adventist Conference will be held at the Calvary Chapel in Arlington, Texas (July 30,31). All are cordially invited to attend this weekend of learning, sharing, and testimonies with former Seventh-day Adventist pastors and members.
Conference speakers include: Dr. Antonio Lopez (medical doctor and clinic director in Montermorelos, Mexico); Dr. Richardo Carrillo (dentist and 5th generation SDA, Texas; Dr. Hervy Alcorta (medical director, Mexico); Dr. Kenneth D. Brantley (president and CEO of the Brantley Broadcasting Network; Pastor Dale Ratzlaff (former SDA pastor and teacher, author of SABBATH IN CHRIST and CULTIC DOCTRINE, Arizona; Dirk Anderson (author of WHITE OUT and founder of www.ellenwhite.org, Florida; Pastor Paulino Marquez (former SDA pastor of 22 years, Corona, CA;Pastor Abram Benitz (former SDA pastor, Tyler, Texas; Pastor Eddis Velasquez (former SDA pastor, Victoria, Texas; Captain Saul Gonzalez, US Army (former SDA, veteran of the Gulf War, Kosovo, and Iraq conflict, currently stationed in Germany); William Castillo (former SDA elder, Texas);Pastor Rey Cantu (formerly SDA pastor, Keene, Texas) and others yet to be announced.
LOCATION: Calvary Chapel; 200 West Park Row, Arlington, Texas USA Phone: (817) 903-6731
GOALS OF THE CONFERENCE:
1. Reaffirm the assurance we have of salvation through Jesus Christ
2. Share how to witness to those in bondage
3. Share experiences and testimonies
CONFERENCE THEME: We are not alone!!! |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 169
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:06 pm: | |
Thanks Dennis,
If I can afford it I will go. My son is stationed in Abilene and if I can go I will go see my son and grandson and DIL, then I wll go to the conference.
I am praying about it.
Diana |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 335
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 8:50 am: | |
I live not too (<20 min.) far from the conference but my husband would flip out if I went. I am going to try to go!!!! |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 634
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 2:55 pm: | |
Maybe someday they can have Formers conference in California. I frequently read the websites of former JW's and they recently had a confrence. In fact, the former JW's apparently now are hitting up the areas where the JW's have their big conventions and are outside in the parking lots, etc. offering real Bible studies to the JW's, etc. I sometimes wonder what the response would be if the former SDA's tried this at campmeeting and at the various retreats the SDA's have, like when they rent the motels for the weekends for the VOP seminars and rent the motels for the FFT seminars, etc. |
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 264
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 11:17 pm: | |
Well, I've done something like that at the Redwood Campmeeting. I just visit with folks until I find the fed up SDA's, or the ones' who feel disillusioned with the church---and then give them 'Cultic Doctrine'. I don't give out many, just a handful, but I gotta believe that somebody will read it and start thinking! |
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