| Author | Message | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 206 Registered: 7-2003 |
I didn't understand: ìI donít think people should go see the film unless they believe that the Cross is the tipping point of eternity,î Duerksen told ANN. ìTheyíre going to miss the whole thing.î It almost sounds like people shouldn't go unless they are believers, doesn't it? Can't the movie teach people about the significance of the cross? (presuming it is what I've heard...) Perhaps an insiders perspective could shed light?? | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 468 Registered: 3-2001 |
I saw the movie on Tuesday night. Our church rented a theater and showed it to 900 people (I think). There were three showings. I thought a gospel presentation and invitation would follow, but it did not. One of the Pastors opened the film by saying that there would possibly be holes that need to be filled by some of those who were viewing. He encouraged people to pray, read the gospel account in its entirity to get the context, and to seek out those who may be more spiritually mature for explanations. Then they showed the movie. Overall I thought the film was excellent. My fiance who suffers from narcolepsy stayed awakre during the entire movie--which is saying osmething. It is definitely a gripping movie. It is also extremely graphic. For the most part, I thought the graphic portrayal of Jesus' suffering wasappropriate, although I did feel like Gibson overdid it when it came to Jesus carrying the cross to Calvary. I found myself saying, "enough already," I get the point. He probably could have cut a good 15 minutes off the length of the film. There were certainly some parts where Gibson used his editorial freedom (i.e. Judas being tormented after he betrayed Christ). While it is certainly scriptural that Judas hung himself, the exact nature of his struggle is left to speculation. I have no problem with allowing Gibson some latitude. The only problem I see with it is that this film has been billed as being scripturally accurate. Some people may be inclined to take the movie as gospel, and not read for themselves. This is where we all have picked up some of our EGWisms that aren't necessarily found in scripture. I think the message I took away from the movie is the depth of Jesus' love for me. In one scene, he flashes back to a scene at the Last SUpper where he commands the disciples to love each other the same way that He loved them. They also showed him telling the disciples that "greater love has no man than to lay down his life for his brother." The graphic violence helped drive this point home to me. It made me realize that sometimes I may have a distorted view of the Christian walk. I am inclined to believe that it is all about "enjoying God fully" and receiving His best. While this is true, I can forget that He also promised that he did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Persecution is to be a part of the Christian experience. I do not think the film is anti-semitic. Certainly the Jews are portrayed in a negative light, but so are the Roman soliders. I agree with who ever said it (possibly Paul Harvey), that if anyone walks away with enmity for the Jews, he/she probably missed the entire point of the movie. It is interesting that Gibson totally eliminated the tearing of the veil after Jesus' death. Could this be his Catholic bias shining through? This symbol is so critical to a right understanding of the Gospel that I cannot see how he could overlook it. Obviously the Catholics believe that we still have a mediator (the Priest) between us and Christ, so it may not carry the same significance. I agree with whoever said that the resurrection was brushed over. Once again, I do not think this was the point of the movie. It intentionally focused on Jesus' suffering, so I can forgive Gibson for not going into great detail. I think the fact that he included it was significant enough. Finally, I think this is a great tool for those who have a understanding of the Gospel, however, I wonder if someone who does not have a real understanding of it would be able to pick it up from this movie. Very little mention is made of sin, or man's fallen condition and need for a saviour. It is assumed that the viewer already understands this. I would have liked to see a more complete presentation of the Gospel--particularly if this film is to be used as an evangelistic tool. There is too much room for misinterpretation and abuse. My bottom line is that this is a GREAT Christian movie, but only an adequate movie for non-believers. I would give it an A-. I didn't even mind the fact that the entire movie was presented in Aramaic. I wasn't looking forward to 2 hours of subtitles, but you hardly even noticed them. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 137 Registered: 2-2002 |
I agree with Doug about unbelievers' perceptions. That is one thing I did throughout the movie, tried to see it through the eyes of an unbeliever, and I was concerned they just might not get it. But that's why I would encourage believers to invite their unsaved loved ones, and encourage conversation following the movie, perhaps go out for coffee (or Sanka.) I also kept nudging my husband and asking if certain things were biblical, mainly Judas torment with demons following his betrayal, as well as Satan's very frequent presence. I realized however that it's just something I'd never considered, but certainly must have happened in some form. Certainly Satan was doing everything he possibly could to alter the chain of events. I'll be interested in hearing everyone's comments in the coming days. Love and prayers to all, Carol | ||
| Barbsigirl Registered user Username: Barbsigirl Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2004 |
Just because the Bible doesn't go into details about the crucificion, I don't think it is wrong to contemplate the horrors that Jesus went through. Most bibical stories do not read like they would today if someone were to describe a scene. I think about the story of Abraham offering up his son, and I imagine it must have been heart wrenching, but the Bible only says that he went up to offer him as a sacrifice and obeyed God. The Bible just isn't that descriptive like we are today. | ||
| Barbsigirl Registered user Username: Barbsigirl Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2004 |
Leigh, I just wanted to tell you that I think that Avalon song is SO beautiful. I was thinking that it would be so fitting to listen to that before the going to the movie. I couldn't remember the artist so I was going to go look for the CD. I'm glad you put the words. It is so powerful. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 207 Registered: 7-2003 |
Doug, regarding your comment about the veil being torn...I don't think it's tied to catholicism uniquely. I think adventism focuses upon the issue of the sanctuary and its services in a way the churches I've been a part of didn't. Even though I've always heard that the veil was torn at the crucifixion, I never really understood the depth of what that meant until a couple of weeks ago. I realized that we could go to God on our own, but I was reading in Hebrews and got to 10:20 and for the first time recognized the earthly veil was symbolism. Christ's flesh was that veil or curtain. I wondered (you know...those ongoing internal arguments) how adventism could still see a literal veil in heaven to think Christ physically passed from one compartment to another in 1844 when this passage says "by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh." Christ is what stands between us and God now...not some piece of fabric. I've read through Hebrews before, so I'm not sure why that jumped out at me so much as it did when I read it a couple of weeks ago, but it just brought so much more meaning to the veil. It may be as you said that Gibson's catholicism does not see the end of the priest role, but it may be something else. I liken it to recognizing the significance of rest in Christ. I'm not sure I could have seen it as significantly if I hadn't come in contact with someone so desperately trying to find it in a day. I've watched the show on the making of the movie and loved what Gibson said about the issue of evil. He said he didn't want it to be obvious that this is evil and this is good. He said it doesn't always stand out so blatantly that it's easy to recognize but it is subtle and somewhat attractive, but he was trying to show the battle of good and evil that exists which we can't literally see. If you have a chance to see that show (it's been on our pax station several times and I think I saw it advertised in our local Christian book store as well), it explains some of the symbolism he was trying to portray. | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 469 Registered: 3-2001 |
Here is an interesting article on the accuracy of the movie: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4371832/ I think the most astounding thing to me has been the wholesale support of this movie by the Christian community--to the point of outrage at anyone who would dare to offer any criticism. The movie has almost become a gospel unto itself. I think the author brings out a good point when he points out that the context of the movie gives the impression that the Jews were united in their hatred of Jesus. In reality, it was the Jewish leaders who led the charge, and many of the common people were motivated by fear. Can't wait to hear other's impressions. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 80 Registered: 12-2003 |
I'm looking forward to seeing the movie; we'll probably go this weekend. I heard a Christian who hosts a weekend show on a local secular radio station say he thought the movie was excellent for Christians, but he doubted that an unbeliever would hear the gospel in it. He also found fault with some "contextual" issues. Not having seen it, however, I just didn't know what to think of his evaluation, although I was inclined to think he probably had some valid assessments. He said he was not taken aback by the violence, because that was what a crucifixion was like. It was other, more subtle things he apparently objected to. He said the movie just didn't give much background setting from Jesus' own teaching to explain why Jesus endured such abuse. I just can't respond yet, however; I'll check in here when I have seen it! Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2000 |
I saw the movie late last night. It is excellent and biblically accurate. However, Adventists would have a problem with the movie's Bible version clearly stating that the thief on the cross went to paradise on THAT VERY DAY. One SDA acquaintance told me yesterday that he would never consider going to see the movie. Sadly, Adventists are less than excited about this topic. The rules of the Roman crucifixion were accurately portrayed. Mel Gibson did alot of research on the details of the crucifixion. Isaiah 53 is cited early in the movie. On my way out of the cinema, I noticed four teenage boys huddled together. Apparently, one of the boys was touched to tears. His friends hugged him and told him it was ok. Let's continue to pray that this movie will impact untold numbers of people to sense a need of a Savior and Substitute. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 277 Registered: 1-2003 |
I too saw the movie last night at the last showing and it was nearly full. I started crying at the Garden of Gethsemane and didn't stop until about 30 min. after the film and then again this morning as my daughter and I were reliving it. My absolute favorite part (and there were many) was where Mary reached out to her Son, the fallen Jesus and he said, "Watch Mother, I will make all things new!" I also loved the parts at the last supper when he told them the Helper would be sent and would teach and remind them of all things He has said. I loved when they flashed back to events before the crucifixion and he looked beautiful and whole...that actor deserves an academy award. Did you hear what Mel said about him...he said he didn't require any direction...he just "was". I believe this film is a message from God and will go out to all the world...go Mel...He has done a great thing through him. I loved in the garden right before the betrayal when Satan was tormenting Christ and a snake came out from under his cloak and slithered towards Jesus and Jesus got up and smashed the snake's head with his heel! So picturesque from Genesis! The Devil scared my kids a little because he was beguiling. He is very androgynous and almost beautiful...yet at the end his true nature comes out. The demons are scary too. Over all, I took my older kids but not my little ones...it was brutal...I expected to look away but never did which surprised me...I never watch anything very violent and if I do...I usually close my eyes. I can imagine someone not saved would view this very differently than someone saved. | ||
| Madelia Registered user Username: Madelia Post Number: 48 Registered: 2-2003 |
I asked my SDA husband last night if he'd go see this movie and he said he would. I was surprised!! Of course, he would never otherwise darken the door of a theater. I'm sure when we go, he'll have something to say about the thief going to heaven! I'm glad he's willing to go, because I want to see it and don't want to go alone | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 38 Registered: 10-2001 |
I haven't been able to go yet, tickets here are sold out. The response is amazing though, every radio station and TV station is talking about it, having reaction from viewers coming out of the theaters. One guy I heard today said his life will forever be changed. I believe that is God's intention. This is all very much a God thing. I hope it sparks a national revival. Praise God. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 31 Registered: 4-2000 |
I agree with Charles Swindoll about this movie when he stated, "I love Jesus very much, but after seeing this movie, I love him even more." DON'T MISS SEEING IT! Dennis Fischer | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 32 Registered: 4-2000 |
I agree with Charles Swindoll about this movie when he stated, "I love Jesus very much, but after seeing this movie, I love him even more." DON'T MISS SEEING IT! Dennis Fischer | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 138 Registered: 2-2002 |
Madelia - Just a quick comment - When I saw the movie, my first thought about the thief on the cross was that any SDA watching this film will likely comment to those around them that the comma is in the wrong place! Good grief! | ||
| Madelia Registered user Username: Madelia Post Number: 49 Registered: 2-2003 |
Exactly my thought Carol! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 83 Registered: 12-2003 |
I am in growing amazement that God ordained this movie at this time, and he inspired Mel Gibson to produce it! I heard a secular Jewish radio talk show host discussing this movie on the way to school this morning. He played clips from Jay Leno's interview of Gibson last night. Apparently studio after studio turned down the movie. What this host said was that what he admired about Mel is that this movie was his passion. He had a passion to produce it, and he allowed no rejections to stop him, spending 25 million of his own money to make it. It is amazing to me how many details of this movie, from the producer's commitment and the actor's experiences to the content itself, are giving skeptical, unbelieving people pause for reflection and reasons to search. Who could ever have seen this coming? God is amazing! We're going to see it tomorrow; I'm looking forward to the experience. Colleen | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 209 Registered: 7-2003 |
I've had a co-worker who I wouldn't consider "saved" by external evidence who was deeply moved. I was very amazed...and surprised he came to tell me. It's also amazing to find out people who go to churches who bought whole theaters of tickets. I took the afternoon off and am on my way to see it now. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 493 Registered: 11-2002 |
My birthday is next week and for my birthday my mom wants to take me to the movie and then out to eat. One of her ongoing main questions about the movie is if the Theif on the Cross goes stright to heaven or if he's dead as a doorknob, again bringing the question of where to place the comma in that text. I have not read any reviews on the movie in my moms SDA magazines. I thought maybe it is because the movie came out on Ash wednesday and is playing throughout Lent, all of which the SDA's refuse to acknowledge. I have actually had folks of non-SDA Christian understanding ask me if the SDA church even believes in the death and resurrection of Jesus because they had been aware that the SDA's that they personally know refuse to acknowledge Easter and have even told them Easter is a pagan celebration. It's a sad commatary of SDA'ism. I wonder if SDA's will venture into a theater because most SDA's I know believe it is wrong to go to a theater but will wait for the movie to come out on video and then rent it. My mom plans to go with me. The last time she was in a theater was when her and me went to see that movie staring Meral Streep in that true story about that SDA minister and his family from Australia that had their baby snatched by a dingo while they were on a camping trip. My son, who is not very knowledgable of the SDA religion, yet sends my six year old gradndaughter to the local SDA school and he attends a local SDA church plans to see this movie. His wife, who went to Catholic schools from first through 12th grades told me she learned all that religious stuff growing up and doesn't want to see another movie about it. She wants to go see, Dirty Dancing. Whatever. ... | ||
| Derrell Registered user Username: Derrell Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2002 |
I think that most people, regardless of their religious/denominational affiliation, will understand that this is a movie... a Hollywood production... and enjoy it for what it is, without picking apart its biblical accuracy, or looking for the placement of commas. Even Adventists, many of whom are becoming rather ecumenical. Derrell |
