| Author | Message | ||
| Barbsigirl Registered user Username: Barbsigirl Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2004 |
Well, I just got back from seeing it, and how moving it was. I particularly was impressed by the portrayal of His agony in Gethsemene. Every other play or movie about that part just doesn't seem to grasp the agony that He was going through. This was so excellently done. I took my teenagers, and they thought it was "awesome". I also thought Herod and Pilate were perfectly played. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 34 Registered: 4-2000 |
THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST: The SDA View The Adventist Review editor, William Johnsson, wrote an article in the latest online edition titled in part, "sobering reflections" on THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST movie. He stated that he doesn't need this movie as a veteran Christian, and he is doesn't "intend" to see it. How arrogant and demeaning! Wow! I wonder how Bill Johnsson is able to have "sobering reflections" on this movie he admittedly never saw? Another SDA apologist, Angel Rodriguez from the SDA Biblical Research Institute, informed the Review audience that Mel Gibson is actually a Catholic and holds personal theological views (BTW, who doesn't?). Then, by far the most critical and extreme, Samuele Bacchiocchi believes that a cinema actor is actually an "impersonator" (i.e., Satan's last deception). Furthermore, he equates this with violating the Second Commandment. He added that if Mel Gibson would only accept the Sabbath truth, he could then forget about this movie's importance. Rodriguez bolstered his views with quotes from a Jewish Rabbi and the secular press to steer people away from seeing the movie. Well, there you have it, the official SDA response to THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST movie. While I am not surprised, I am indeed saddened at their stance against contemplating the sufferings of Jesus. The Adventist mindset is inherently programmed to see a red flag whenever biblical Christianity gets excited about something. In awe of Calvary, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 542 Registered: 7-2000 |
Hi everyone...My 16 year old son, husband, and I saw the "Passion" movie this afternoon. It was hard to watch, but wonderful also...I had a sense of horror, and yet gratitude, at the same time. Living in the reality of the Risen Christ makes it a lot easier for us to view His death than I'm sure it was for Jesus' family and friends at His actual crucifixion. I thought a lot of the symbolism was very good. One I wasn't sure of was what was the meaning of the "baby/old man" whom the Satanic figure was carrying at one time? Doug, there WAS a scene (albeit a quick one) of the veil in the temple ripping from top to botom...right during the earthquake, with the Priests in disarray in the Temple. I would have liked a little more on the Resurrection glory. But still, it was quite a remarkable movie. grace always, cindy | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 100 Registered: 4-2002 |
Dennis, It has been years since I've even seen a "Review", so I can't really comment on this, however. This quote really bothers me. "He added that if Mel Gibson would only accept the Sabbath truth, he could then forget about this movie's importance." Could you flesh this out from the article? Is he really saying what I THINK he is saying, that if you have the "Sabbath truth" you don't need the suffering of the cross?! If this is indeed the stated view in their official magazine, then I feel deep concern for their souls, indeed! Is there an online source for this article? Thank you for yor responce, I am Apalled!! <>< Thomas | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 496 Registered: 11-2002 |
.Yesyerday I attended the local SDA church with my mother. Fortunatelly for her she is elderly and either sleeps through most of the service or she can't hear what the preacher is saying. I, on the other hand stay awake, alert and take notes. At the start of the service the minister flashes on the movie screen at the front on the church a slide with a beautiful sky and the words, "The Passion of the Christ" across the sky. Then he said that since the movie by Mel Gibson was getting so much press he thought he'd best give a sermon about how come the death of Jesus is so important. He also said that all the talk about Jesus can only be a good thing and hopefully the movie will assist unbelivers into accepting Jesus as their savior. This particular pastor uses the overhead with visuals nearly every week. Then he said in order for us to be able to understand the meaning of Jesus's death we had to be able to put His death in context and in order to put it into the right context we had to have a thourough understanding of the 2300 days, after which he always referred to as the 2300 years. Then he did an entire sermon on the 2300 years and how prophecy shows that only the SDA's are given the truth of understsanding the significance of the death of Jesus. Later at the potluck at the table next to where I was sitting with my mother I was easedropping into the conversation and the conversation was a table of folks blabbering about how they know the SDA church is right about what the pastor said in the sermon because the Bible says the true people of God will be a perculiar people. I remember thinking, "Yeah, a peculiar people is what it says but you're all just plain nuts and wack-o. These people are far beyond the diffination of peculiar". Then before leaving to go home I stopped by to chat with the pastor and told him his sermon made no sense at all. He told me if I could come by his office sometime during the week he would explain it to me. I'll pass on his offer but I still can't figure how he gets that in order to understand the significance of Christ's death we have to have an understanding of the SDA teaching of the 2300 days/years. Oh, and he asked for a show of hands of how many had already seen the movie. Several hands went up. Then he asked how many more intended to see the movie and several more hands went up, including mine. He also said that several weeks ago he attended a viewing of the movie in L.A. for clergy and that although it was an o.k. movie for the already believers we had to know it is a movie and movies are for entertainment and was made by a famous Hollywood producer and needed to be seem keeping these facts in mind and also that Mel Gibson does not have an understanding of the importance of the 2300 years and as such cannot truely convey the Passion of Christ. I gotta tell you, the SDA church is really spun! (At least this particular one.) | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 35 Registered: 4-2000 |
Thomas, Here is the exact quote from Samuele Bacchiocci's electronic newsletter (archived at www.biblicalperspectives.com): "If Gibson was to accept the message of the Sabbath regarding the spiritual nature of God, he might consider withdrawing the film before its release. Such a courageous decision would prevent the adoption by millions of Christians of a distorted view of Christ' suffering and death--a view that as we shall shortly show, is conditioned by the Catholic teachings regarding the imitation of Christ's Passion, rather than by the biblical account of Golgotha." Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 498 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mel Gibson has a very interesting autobiography/testemony. Apparently while still very young (around 20) he was suverely injoured in some sort of accident. Everyone thought he was going to die. In his anguish Mel cried out to God in his heart and mind that if God would spare him from death he would live his life as the best wittness to God that he could and would try to bring the truth of Jesus to everyone he could. Mel takes this promise to God very seriouselly and as such completely supports several orphanges/missions down in Central and South America. Another interesting thing about Mel is that he thought there should be a Catholic church closer to his house so he bought the land close to his home and fought with the planning commission and all the other burocisity involved and built a church in his neighborhood. I think that is just really cool. And, today on The Hour of Power the guest was the actor who played Jesus. What a story he told about the making of the movie. What is really interesting is that the actor who plays Jesus has the initals J.C. and he is 33 years old. Some things just amaze me. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2000 |
On a radio talk show last Friday, the actor that played the role Jesus in the film, told how lightening actually struck him while on the cross. He also suffered a dislocated shoulder from high winds (while on the cross) when the temperature in Italy was only 30 degrees Fahrenheit. While filming, he told how he would get up every morning at 2 AM to get ready for work. After each day of work, it took another two hours to get his makeup off. Inadvertently, someone hurt him with some lumber. Apparently, he endured alot of physical suffering in his movie role of depicting Christ. On the other hand, the physical sufferings of Christ in the crucifixion process was most intense. Because of the Sabbath approaching, they had to get this over with quickly and brutally. This reminds me of seeing frantic Adventists in grocery stores just before sunset on Fridays. I am thankful that the True Sabbath now keeps me. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 101 Registered: 4-2002 |
None of this should surprise me. I remember the way I was raised. I never could really understand the "big deal" of Jesus. The Easter season was held in such contempt that the Cross was seen as only an unexplained event in an unending need to prove ourselves to a Holy and Judging God who watched our every word and thought for a reason to condemn us. Even though it has been 20 years since I have been subjected to their "teaching", these types of statements still seem unbelievable! Again Jesus "points to the Sabbath", not the way it really is. Again, "The Sabbath" becomes the point of worship and Jesus only a messenger and example of how to properly keep the law. How shameful! In the last few months, I have been led to pray for the members of the SDA church. Maybe because so many of my family are still involved. Now, it is even more apparent that prayer is seriously needed. If this is the excepted opinion of the members, then the security of souls has to be a grave concern. Time for some more "knee action". Thank God, for me it's Jesus now .. Jesus tomorrow .. Jesus forever .. Jesus totally! <>< Thomas | ||
| Debbie Registered user Username: Debbie Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2000 |
For those of you who are either concerned regarding the lack of complete message in the movie and/or would like assistance with evangelizing/filling in the gaps, here are a couple of websites: www.harvest.org www.ATStracts.org The first website is Harvest Christian Fellowship's website. Greg Laurie, the pastor of Harvest, has written a biblical guide and a evangelical tract, intended to complement "The Passion" movie. Harvest is offering the biblical guide at "one per household for any donation (meaning you could technically get it for $1.00), and one free copy of "The Passion" Tract. I'm not sure if you can purchase the tract on Harvest's website, but they are being sold through the American Tract Society. I've read the tract, it's really good, and would be perfect for passing out at the movie theatre (or for giving to your unsaved friends/family before or after the movie). People wouldn't even realize they're being witnessed to, like they would normally, for example, if you just handed them a gospel tract on the street, for example. Have fun and God Bless!  Debbie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 88 Registered: 12-2003 |
We saw the movie on Saturday. Richard really could barely speak for an hour or so afterward. I was overwhelmed by several things, one of the most pervasive being that we really have sanitized the cross. The cross is REALLY an offense to people. Johnsson's and Bacchiocchi's responses, on one level, do not surprise me. Adventism truly does diminish both the deity of Jesus and the centrality of his physical sacrifice. He had to be human in order to bear the sins of humanity. During the scenes of the scourging, I was overwhelmed. I had never actually pictured the reality of that event. I realized that the purpose of the flogging was not actually death; it was torture for the sake of other people's pleasure. As I watched that unbelievable cruelty, I though of Isaiah's texts of our being healed by his wounds. I realized in a really palapable way that Jesus not only redeemed our inherited sin and our committed sins by his shed blood, but that in that flogging he took on himself all the undeserved phsyical and mental abuse that all of us have suffered at the hands of others. He took on the transgressions that have been committed against each of us for the pleasure and power of the perpetrators in our lives. Jesus not only redeemed us from sin, he redeems us from our emotional, psychological, and physical wounds which we have suffered as victims at various times in our lives. As Isaiah said, Surely he has born our griefs and carried our sorrows. I was overwhelmed with the desire that I will not betray or be disloyal to Jesus. As for that demon child in the arms of Satan--I think that there could be several possibilites for it's symbolism. One I heard from a friend yesterday; it's the antithesis of the imagery in Revelation of the woman and her seed which is the church. Satan has tried to create his own legacy of people who will serve him and oppose the people of God. Another possibility stems from the visual picture of a twisted Madonna and child. That baby in the arms of Satan may represent the antichrist, or the power of the antichrist. Altogether this movie is one of the most powerful things I've ever seen. God definitely wants the world to be reminded of the reality of Jesus' sacrifice and of the fact that he is NOT just one more "good teacher". He not only taught, but he suffered and died for us. All other religious icons either teach that humans must transcend their basic humanity and not feel (Buddha, etc.), or they teach cruelty for the sake of forcing obeisance (as the Koran teaches). Jesus suffered himself, but he suffered for us and for the sake of God's glory. And there's another of those paradoxes! Praise God! Colleen | ||
| Debbie Registered user Username: Debbie Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2000 |
I, along with my church, husband, and grandparents are planning to see the movie next Saturday, so I can't make a statement regarding the movie. But I have felt inspired regarding the reaction to the movie. I wrote this a couple of weeks ago in relation to the mixed reaction Gibson is receiving from the media regarding his strong stand for Christ: "Jesus and Beelzebub" Today while we were in church listening to the Sunday morning sermon, the pastor covered Luke 7:23, which says "Blessed is he who is not offended by Me." This is Jesus talking. It reminded me of the fact that people on an internet website were offended when a lady posted a beautiful web page that spoke only of the love of God and Christ. I then started thinking again about how the media is coming up with all sorts of negative things about Mel Gibson lately. One thing the media has recently said, for example, that is particularly interesting in light of scripture, is the statement about Gibson that many think he is "losing his mind." In the gospel of Matthew chapter 10, Jesus warned his disciples to expect to be hated and persecuted for His sake, and when they stand up for Him. Jesus then goes on to say something that is hard to understand. In verses 24-25, it says: "A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household!" I have learned through the years to interpret scripture with scripture. And I now use a bible with cross references in the center columns. The cross references provide amazing insight into what Jesus is saying here. First of all, in Matthew 9:32-34, there is a discussion of Jesus healing a man, who was mute and demon possessed: ìAs they went out, behold, they brought to Him a man, mute and demon-possessed. And when the demon was cast out, the mute spoke. And the multitudes marveled, saying, ëIt was never seen like this in Israel!í But the Pharisees said, ëHe casts out demons by the ruler of demons.î The same incident is described in the gospel of Luke, Chapter 11. In verse 15 it states: ìBut some of them said, ëHe casts out demons by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.íî In John 8:48, the cross reference given in connection to Matthew 10:25, it says: ìThen the Jews answered and said to Him (meaning Jesus), ìDo we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?î In verses 52-53 of John 8 it says: ìThen the Jews said to Him, ëNow we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets: and You say, ìíIf anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.íî Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?î Then in verses 57-59: ìThen the Jews said to Him, ëYou are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?í Jesus said to them, ìMost assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.î Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple through the midst of them, and so passed by.î There are several other places in the gospels where Jesus is accused of having a demon, including John 7:20 and John 10:20; specifically in John 10:20 the Jewish leaders even accused Jesus of being ìmadî or ìinsane:î ìAnd many of them said, ëHe has a demon and is mad. Why do you listen to Him?íî (John 10:20) Interesting, huh? So, going back to Matthew 10:24-25, Jesus is telling his disciples then, and today, that if He (i.e. the Master of the house, or the Teacher) is called Beelzebub (or accused of having a demon, called ìmadî or ìinsaneî), then us as believers/disciples (i.e. the members of the Masterís household, the servants, or the students),î should expect the same when we stand up openly for Him. Jesus also tells us in Matthew 10:26-37: ìTherefore do no not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Fatherís will. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. ìTherefore, whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and ëa manís enemies will be those of his own household.í He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.î The more I study scripture, the more amazed I get by the authenticity, relevancy and accuracy of every single word. The more I study Jesusí life and His teachings, the more I understand my life and my experiences as a Christian and follower of Christ. For, are we not commanded to take up our cross daily and follow our Savior? (Matthew 10:38) *All bible references NKJV | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 278 Registered: 1-2003 |
Got this email today... Subject: The Passion Snare - message intended for SDA's COUNTERFEIT REVIVAL and THE PASSION of the Christ Below is an excerpt from a book called The End Time Series by Pastor Vance Ferrell "Ellen White talks about an event that will bring a very unusual excitement in the Sunday-keeping churches. Read this: Early Writings, page 261: "I saw that God has honest children among the nominal Adventists and the fal‚len churches, and before the plagues shall be poured out, ministers and people will be called out from these churches and will gladly receive the truth. Satan knows this; and before the loud cry of the third angel is given, he raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think that God Is with them. He hopes to deceive the honest and lead them to think that God is still working for the churches."-Early Writings, 261:1. The latter rain comes at the beginning of the loud cry; and just after the national Sunday law. But the counterfeit revival-Satan's counterfeit of the latter rain-will precede the true latter rain upon God's people. It will appear to be God's blessing upon the disobedient churches. Sa‚tan will use it to extend his influence over the Christian world. This counterfeit revival will be the first event; the event which catapults our nation into the national Sunday law. Here is the order of four special events: (1) the counterfeit revival. (2) the national Sunday law. (3) the latter rain. (4) the loud cry. Here is a second important statement: Great Controversy, 464: "Before the final visitation of God's judg‚ments upon the earth, there will be, among the people of the Lord, such a revival of primitive godliness as has not been wit‚nessed since apostolic times. The Spirit and power of God will be poured out upon His children. . Many, both of ministers and peo‚ple, will gladly accept those great truths which God has caused to be proclaimed at this time, to prepare a people for the Lord's second coming. The enemy of souls desires to hinder this work; and before the time for such a movement shall come, he will en‚deavor to prevent it, by introducing a counterfeit. In those churches which he can bring under his deceptive power, he will make it appear that God's special bles‚sing is poured out; there will be manifest what is thought to be great religious in‚terest. Multitudes will exult that God is working marvelously for them, when the work is that of another spirit. Under a reli‚gious guise, Satan will seek to extend his influence over the Christian world. -Great Controversy, 464:2" Could The Passion be the catalyst to begin this false/counterfeit revival? There have been reports of healings and other miracles associated with this movie, Churches have booked whole theaters for their members to see The Passion. There is definitely an excitement in the religious bodies. http://www.temcat.com/End-Time/End%20Time-TOC.htm | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 279 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have so many objections to this article I don't know where to start! The most astounding statements made by this SDA are in red. My comments are in blue. Subject: Movie - The Passion of Christ An interesting thought provoking observation of the movie "The Passion of Christ". It appears the article was from "Chicago SDA Youth" and then sent out by the Michigan Conference. Jim " How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation..." Hebrews 2:3. From: " CHICAGO SDA YOUTH". Subject: *Concerning the Movie, "The Passion of Christ", Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004. From: *Communication Department of Michigan Conference of Seventh-day Adventists* *February 20, 2004*. *Concerning the Movie, "The Passion of Christ". With all the hype from the religious community on the soon to be released movie, "The Passion of Christ": Adventists are asking: How should we be involved? *A RESPONSE FROM OUR MEDIA DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, Dane Griffin*. (Dane has worked extensively in the area of video media and has received over 45 international awards for the quality of his productions. He has studied the application of this media for > evangelism from the writings of Ellen G. White. He has rubbed shoulders with those who produce movies and has the following comments in regard to this new movie.) "If it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." How appropriate are those words of Jesus for us today. As the Christian world anticipates the release of the much-publicized Mel Gibson movie, "The Passion of Christ": Christís wordsóand His total submission to Godís will, are a gentle, loving reminder to us of our duty today. Can this movie, highly endorsed by many leaders of the Christian world, be used by Adventists for evangelistic outreach? Should we utilize it in our own homes or churches for ìreligious education?î Letís briefly address some of the pertinent issues here. 1. As Adventists, God holds us to a higher standard*. While the Lord may bless this movie in the hands of Christians in other fellowships, He calls us to a higher standard. Let me stop right here!!!! Christians are held to a higher standard period and that standard is Love...Jesus told us this... John 13 34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." He doesn't say the following: 34"A new command I give you: Keep the Sabbath and dietary laws in the Torah (Leveticus 11-specifically). As I have kept them, so you must keep them and35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you keep the Sabbath and the dietary laws." That is not "special knowledge"! Jesus is "special knowledge!!!!" That is so arrogant it makes me furious...he is saying others in the Body of Christ are not good enough and that is not in line with the Gospel...see in Acts when Paul publically called Peter out for stopping his activities with the Gentiles (he ate with them and one can only assume he ate their non-kosher food, etc.) when the men from James (Jewish Christians) arrived - he was not in line with the Gospel and Paul told him so in front of everyone! We are all equal in God's eyes...even those who think they have "special knowledge" and their pride puffs them up! We need no more knowledge that Jesus Christ and Him crucified...the Holy Spirit is in all of us as a guarantee of salvation!!!!!!! Luke 12:48 tells us that ìto whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.î When the Philistines moved the ark of God from their land on an ox cart, God worked a miracle and accepted their effort (1 Samuel 6:1-15). But when David tried to move it the same way, he encountered Godís judgment (2 Samuel 6:1-7). Why? David knew better. God held him to a higher standard. I could say the same thing...there are denominations who know they are truly free in Christ and don't have to keep the "shadows" to be saved...who has the greater light? I think that is left up to Jesus...not men to judge! After all... Jesus is the Light! Period. 2. Hollywood distorts the truth. I applaud Mel Gibson for being willing to take the heat of the Hollywood elite and make this movie. Obviously, he has more courage than many! But that does not change the fact that these productions almost always distort the truth. While the words employed may be taken right out of the Bible, the actions,facial expressions, and reactions of the actors and actresses are all suppositionsópowerful suppositions that can overpower the words themselves. As media critic Marshall McCuen said years ago: "The medium IS the Message". Any serious student of communica-tion knows that "how" something is said, facial expressions used, the tone and inflexion of the voice, the body language, all communicate much more powerfully than the words themselves. Once a scene is viewed, it is indelibly etched upon the mind, especially of children, and from that time on will jaundice your view and interpretation of that scene of Jesusí life. Hollywood entertains and manipulates emotion through visual and audio cues. The Holy Spirit appeals to our emotions through reason and conscience. One is fleeting and superficial. The other is lasting and life-changing. Thereís an eternity of difference there. We have been given powerful, inspired insights into the life and passion of Jesus in the Desire of Ages, the Bible, and other books. We have the real story lineówhy settle for fiction and supposition? I am sorry! The Bible is the "real story line" and Mel has the Holy Spirit the same as Ellen had...we are all competant ministers of the New Covenant...his view is just as credible as hers!!!! And I for one felt the Holy Spirit in that movie...the actor that played Jesus was so believable...I almost forgot he wasn't my Lord and Savior!! Arrogance once again!!!! 3. We are counseled against this form of evangelism: ìNot one jot or tittle of anything theatrical is to be brought into our work. Godís > cause is to have a sacred, heavenly moldÖ Let nothing of a theatrical nature be permitted, for this would spoil the sacredness of the workÖAll theatrical performances in connection with the preaching of present truth (are) to be discouraged and forbidden.î EV, page 137. Jesus followed this counsel Himself. In the midst of a Helenistic culture, with its heavy emphasis on entertainment and theatrics, Jesus never used that medium! Jesus told stories, He never had his disciples act them. I personally have made it a policy to only listen to the Holy Spirit through the scriptures and my conscience...I don't need Ellen's embellishments when I have the word of God preserved through the ages! Plus...parables are told for entertainment but have a deeper meaning...I think he is splitting hairs here. Jesus never condemned i theatrical acting in His written word...they presume to speak on what God approves and condemns...pretty arrogant! I personally see God's hand in this endeavor of Mel's and it has caused more talk of Jesus than anything I have ever seen. It is all people are talking about! Traveling drama troupes were the trend of the day. But Jesusí kingdomóand His teachingówere not of this world. We do not find acting as one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. ìThe work that Christ did in our world is to be our exampleÖ We are to keep as far from the theatrical and the extraordinary as Christ kept in His work.î - EV, page 396. So, how do we relate as Adventists to "The Passion of Christ"? Let the Lord use it, if He chooses, in the hands of others. God has given us a better way! The arrogance is palpable here! "Let" the Lord use it? Is he kidding? The Lord is God...we don't let God use anything...he lets us use His things!!!! I just cannot believe this! Plus he is insinuating the SDA way is better than the Lords!!!!! We must engage in the real passion of Christówinning souls to Jesus in the way that Jesus modeled in His life! God through Mel is going to send the Gospel into all the world...what have the SDA done? They have prostelytized already saved people into Sabbathkeeping all the while claiming it isn't salvational...if it isn't salvational...then why is it so important to bring others into it. They should be preaching as Paul did...Christ and Him Crucified!!!!! And remember: There, in the height of His passion, Jesus surrendered His wants, His desires, and His natural inclinations, to the all-encompassing will of God. Yes, and He was God! His natural inclinations were wHOLY not the same as ours...was he tempted to steal his own posessions? How could ne be...for everything in the Earth belonged to Him...did he lust after the woman He Himself created? No way! Was he tempted to worship any gods or graven images? God doesn't worship Himself!!! No he was tempted to shuck the whole plan of salvation! The only way we are tempted in the fashion He was is this...the Devil tried to take His faith in who He really was...he tried to make him doubt who he was!!! And the devil still does it today to those in Christ Jesus...many people don't know who they are and the ones who do are tempted daily to doubt it!!!!! His Faith was tempted! Plain and simple...as is ours! But what does the Bible say about it? Hebrews 10. 35So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. 36You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37For in just a very little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay. 38But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him." 39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved. Also is there one human here on planet Earth that has accomplished this-"totally surrendering their wants, desires and natural inclinations?" I challenge you to find one! What you will find are people who know their righteousness is filthy rags and give glory to God daily that they are hidden in Christ and counted righteous because the Lamb was Worthy...not them! He could have walked away from His passion. But we, like Jesus, must exclaim: ìNevertheless, not My will, but thine be done.î | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 210 Registered: 7-2003 |
I saw the movie Friday afternoon and found myself thinking ìenough alreadyî as they were doing the beating. Yet, I had to remind myself that they were cramming into a couple of hours a process that took many more hours. I really couldnít even comprehend the price that I thought I knew. I was very thankful for the subtitles and glimpses of happier times to break away from the grim reality that had no break. I thought Bachiocchiís analysis was ìsacreligiousî. Yes, Christ was God, but he was equally human. To insinuate he could go through all that and not bleed or suffer is incredible. He also spouted some of the ìpoplarî media positions and could have helped Dianne Sawyer write her questions, even pulling from Gibsonís father. He propigated the lie that Gibson himself denied (saying Gibson blamed jews for Christís death, rather than all of us). And he focused more upon the Catholic church connection rather than the realities of the film. He obviously had never seen it. His ìobservationî that the blood isnít spoken of was no different than arguments about Christís silence about keeping the sabbath. Unfortunately, people who buy his conclusions miss the realities of the crucifixion whether they choose to see the movie or not. He doesnít just dismiss the film, he dismisses the horrors of the crucifixion by saying that many others in that time were also crucified. So, I guess the conclusion should be it was no big deal? Amazing.... | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 89 Registered: 12-2003 |
To be honest, the crucifixion really wasn't a big deal in Adventism. Sure, Christ died for our sins, and sometimes people would quote Ellen saying people should spend a thoughtful hour each day meditating upon the closing scenes of Christ's life, but in ways I cannot clearly articulate, the significance of the cross was never really clear. It was more of a guilt-producer, i.e.; "See? Jesus went through all this abuse to save you; the least you can do is to be good and accept him." I read a book a few years ago by the head of the 1888 committee (I can't remember his name--he's currently alive) which declared that the purpose for Jesus' death was to prove to us that we had become so debased we would kill God. Jesus allowed us to kill him, it said, to make a point to us that we needed saving. The fact is that even though Adventists say the right words about the crucifixion, it generally doesn't really impact the people. In fact, it's a bit uncomfortable, much like saying the name of "Jesus" is uncomfortable to most Adventists. When you consider that the investigative judgment officially teaches that the atonement was not complete at the cross, the Adventists' casual treatment of it makes more sense. Being confronted with the very real suffering of Jesus is just an uncomfortable distraction from the theology that sets them apart from all other churches. I am so thankful for Jesus! Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2000 |
LATE NEWSFLASH! At 10 PM EST tonight, March 1, 2004, Dr. D. James Kennedy and Franklin Graham will appear on the Scarborough Country program (MSNBC). They will discuss whether the violence in THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST movie distorts the Gospel. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 567 Registered: 7-2000 |
Haven't seen the movie yet. But it seems to me that we need to be praying for those SDA's who will view it. If it is as powerful as you say, then it seems to me that there will be those who are awakened in seeing it. Not only by the movie itself, but also because of hearing Christians talk about the movie. I've really been feeling like we need to be praying that those who have an open heart will be prepared for the time that they go. That the Lord will place in their paths Christians who can minister to them and mentor them. That they will become desperately curious and driven into the straight word of God for answers. I pray that this pooh-poohing talk from the SDA leadership will be the very thing that will drive them with curiosity to go to the movie. | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 217 Registered: 7-2000 |
Well, Lydell, I hope so too--but don't bet on it. The feelings of quite a few in the local SDA church I keep up on was expressed by a fellow who opined that 'this is just a snare of Satan too lure people into movie theaters. They go to see a supposedly Christian movie---but it's being shown in a place they normally wouldn't go too and shouldn't go to.' Sometimes I think it is just hopeless trying to get through to most of these folks.......... | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 47 Registered: 9-2003 |
Some SDA reviews: http://www.adventist.org/news/data/2004/01/1077630765/index.html.en http://www.adventistreview.org/2004-1508/story5.html http://www.greatcontroversy.org/documents/sermons/sermons-kir/kir-gibsonpassionpt1.php http://www.spectrummagazine.org/conversationcafe/reviews/040226zytkoskee.html One of the reviews said that, in the movie, Jesus receive 90 (!!!) lashes. Is that true? Am I wrong, in remembering that one of the Gospels says 39, and the others do not specify any number? Where did 90 come from? - Hoytster |
