| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 249 Registered: 12-2003 |
Pheeki, I completely understand your feelings. I'm proud of you, though! It is very hard to give up our identity (I was more Adventist than I was American), and that sadness you feel is normal. It's also a bit unnerving to know they'll discuss you at their meeting! They can't do anything to you, however, that will hurt your soul or your security. Your letter is an act of integrity, and God will restore the years the locusts ate. He is so faithful! Colleen | ||
| Jenntooth Registered user Username: Jenntooth Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2004 |
I have not been an active member in the Adventist church for 11 years and know my name is no longer on their active list of members. However, should I write my former church and ask them to remove my name from membership? My family are still members there and I'm sure they'll have a real fit but I want to do the right thing. God hasn't been telling me specifically to ask for my name to be removed but He has been making it clear that I can't sit on the fence anymore with family and friends who are SDA. I make my feelings known. What should I do? | ||
| Conniegodenick Registered user Username: Conniegodenick Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2004 |
I asked my 2 brothers (who are no longer SDA) for their opinion and what they said made sense to me. They said, "It's their problem about whether they want to clean up the books and get serious about who is really a member or not. Let the matter drop and if they contact you, then be honest with them." That is exactly what I have done. I quit going to church and just decided that I was not going to write anything. Nobody has contacted me specifically about it although I still see some folks socially--like at the wedding that I just returned from. | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2004 |
My husband just this weekend admitted to believing that the sabbath is no longer required, which also led to our discussion of not attending the SDA church anymore. I had already written our letter, just was waiting for his comfort. We will still need to tell our families, etc first. I've been waiting to do this, I know in my heart it's what is right...but my problem now is that the closer it gets to becoming a reality: a church elder is going to be visiting us in a couple of weeks, I'm so scared to go through with it. In my studying I've come across all these "new" open beliefs. Stuff that borders on predestination, some really deep stuff in the New Covenant theology thread posted by Bill Twisse, etc. I was comfortable with all encompassing grace, the uselessness of the law, and those beliefs that I didn't agree with SDA theology on, but when I get into deeper issues I have "flashbacks" if you will of the EGW claim that those who leave will believe anything. How do you know where to draw the line? And how did you get to that place where you could proceed with confidence? Praying for Faith, Esther | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 256 Registered: 12-2003 |
Esther, you ask such a good question. I so totally relate to it. I had exactly the same fears as I left. First and foremost, base all your doctrinal decisions on your own study of the Bible. While there are many people who have written about these issues from a perspective of having searched the scriptures with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, not all writers come from that perspective. Many write based on their intellectual understanding of the Bible. Ask God to guide your study. Ask Him to teach you what you need to know, to reveal truth to you, and to protect you from deception. He will honor those prayers. Remember? Just as a father would not give his child a stone if he asked for bread, so your Heavenly Father will not give you a counterfeit. He will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him for Him. Second, ask God to bring to your attention the books, etc., he wants you to read. There is absolutely no doubt that God guided me to several books as I was re-studying all the doctrines. He brought Dale Ratzlaff's books to me at exactly the moment I needed to understand the New Covenant and had to be able to call EGW a false prophet in order to let go of my presuppositions about what texts meant. Later, He guided me to a couple of (now out-of-print, I think) books about the Holy Spirit, one of which was Indonesian Mel Tari's book, Like A Mighty Wind. God used that book to open my eyes to the fact that my spirit could not be the breath in my nose if the Holy Spirit communicated with me through my spirit. God knows absolutely what you need in order to know the truth, and His Spirit will confirm that truth in your spirit as you trust Him. You will experience the Holy Spirit opening your eyes and your heart as you study His word. That experience still amazes me; I am aware, often, of God making clear to me some understanding I never had before as I study. Third, don't let anyone's writings about any subject take the place of your own Bible study. You don't have to have perfect understanding of all possible doctrines in order to be walking in truth. God will continue to reveal things to you as the years (yes, years!) go by. One particularly helpful idea that I often remember is that truth is a pardox. Whenever someone writes dogmatically about either predestination or free will, I "smell" possible deception. Truly, the Bible teaches both. Both must be true--and we can't possibly understand how that works as long as we are on this limited planet. God WILL guide your study as you grow in him, just as He has already guided your study to discover grace and Sabbath rest. There is much more He has to teach you--but He will be your teacher. He will use others in the process, but He will be your teacher. You do not have to decide all on your own whether or not you should believe anyone's idea. God will make clear to you what he wants you to learn at each step of the way. You can proceed with confidence because the Holy Spirit who inspired the Bible now resides IN YOU, and He will continually lead and reveal what God wants you to know at any given time. I'm praying for you! Colleen | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 114 Registered: 4-2002 |
I second what Colleen said, with this teensy addition; Don't be afraid to follow where the Spirit leads, even if it seems very scary and even "wrong" based on your former belief and understanding. Sometimes it is necessary to pray that the Holy Spirit will erase what you have learned in order to teach you truth as it REALLY is. God bless your study and make your growth in Jesus ase thrilling and fulfilling as it has been for most of us! Allways in HIS grace! <>< Thomas | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 60 Registered: 3-2004 |
Your advice is so valuable Colleen. It seems that the Holy Spirit directs each of us individually. For me, it was to the book of Acts and a solid understanding of the Holy Spirit before I tackled doctrinal issues because I had to learn to operate as Thomas mentions which was SO uncharacteristic of my walk in Adventism. My daughterís friend I met last week started in the book of Hebrews. Someone else I know was checking into whether or not tithe is a relevant concept for today. Whatever was the beginning point, I wholeheartedly agree that as you seek things out for yourself, praying for the direction of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide, you will come to a much firmer decision and the next step will be easier. I donít believe I could have made that step if Iíd only read the opinions of other people, no matter how godly they are because Adventism had such a demonic hold on me. For me, it needed to be individualized Bible study directed by the Holy Spirit. Esther, I donít know about your church, but I donít believe you have anything to fear from people beating your door down to convince you to return to church. I have yet to have been asked by one single SDA why I am no longer an Adventist. Since my husband is still involved people see me around occasionally. They will say theyíve missed me or itís good to see me yet no one is interested enough to determine why Iím no longer there. You will find that when they see joy radiating from you it really confuses them. They just canít understand how someone can rejoice in a different Christian walk and they are way more fearful of talking to you than you are of them. Praise GodÖ | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 259 Registered: 12-2003 |
Esther, I'm afraid that Praisegod is right--we were asked why we left, but NO ONE tried to get us to return. Our pastor even took us to lunch (almost unheard-of when one leaves the SDA church), and he said that as long as we weren't angry, he was fine with our leaving. Yes, I would say that they are "more fearful of talking to you than you are of them." And Thomas, I'm glad you added that part about being willing to go wherever the Holy Spirit leads, even if it goes against what one always believed. I really did pray that God would help me to read the Bible without any overlying, unconscious Adventist (or any other) preset idea of what it meant. Colleen | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2004 |
Thank you all for your encouragement. I have been studying the Word, and the Holy Spirit has been leading and impressing me, I know - or I'd never be here. But I have also been relying on what others say too much...I guess maybe one of those SDA things I need to overcome  It just seems like since I used to feel that I had all the answers(as an SDA), that now I need to have it all figured out on this new trail...only that's not possible. And in truth, that feels good! I only know that my family will say "Oh, so you're claiming that God is leading you, which gives you the credibility to claim that EGW is false, and that you can discredit the teachings of the church?" And my leaving the church will break their hearts. Anyway, maybe I'm pouring my heart out in the wrong thread. Sorry. But thanks for listening and encouraging. PS. Colleen: We're starting a small study group at our house in the evenings, and I was wondering if I could use your study notes that are posted here? | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 316 Registered: 1-2003 |
You know, you are all so right. I sense the SDA are afraid they might find out what you know is correct and it would shatter their many many years of investment into what they thought was the absolute truth. Mostly what you will find is people continuting to attribute your leaving to being abused by someone...offended. Even when you insist that isn't the case and try to talk doctrine...they keep turning the conversation back to personal issues. To me, the spirit of Adventism is pride mixed with fear. It is interesting that someone mentioned (above post) a Demonic hold...I believe that to be true. It is as if people have ears but cannot hear what you are saying...know what I mean? An interesting side note...my friend was at the church board meeting when they voted to end my membership...they also ended the membership of the former youth pastor and his wife. He graduated from the SDA univ. and worked one week for the local SDA church and then left. They read a letter to the board at the time he left, stating that he decided he might not want to be a pastor...come to find out he just didn't want to be an SDA pastor and when they read his letter to resign his membership he told them he was now a pastor in a non-denom. church. He left to be in the Body of Christ, which co-incidentally is the reason I gave...so tell me this isn't the Holy Spirit working...2 letters in one night addressing the dividing of the body of Christ!!!! Maybe the Holy Spirit is working on other hearts there too!!!! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 79 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thomas1, I like what you said about the Holy Spirit erasing what we had learned in the past. I thought I had forgotten what I had learned, but I see, now, that it was the Holy Spirit who erased them as he was teaching me who and what God is like through my 12 step program. He told me to get a concordance and to start studying SDA doctrine when I discovered about EGW. I have come to the same conclusions as the former SDAs on their web sites. Praise God. I do plan on getting some books that were recommended after I am finished reading the NT. I just finished 2 Thessalonians this morning. All of you have been a God send to me. Diana | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 327 Registered: 7-2003 |
I got the bible on cassette and have been listening to the it in the car. I have been listening to the galatians through 1Timothy tape for 2 weeks. (Sometimes I check in and out when i'm driving). It is interesting the different things you hear and pick up on when scripture is read to you verses when you are reading it yourself. I highly recommend it. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 573 Registered: 11-2002 |
Pheeki, I had never actually considered a demonic hold over the devout SDA (I do consider this is the case with JW's though and I base this opinion on my knowing many JW's very closely). But, what you suggest just may be so. Around a year ago my mother asked me if I was actually a member of the Lutheran church. She tolerated my wayword religion as long as I actually wasn't a member of another denomination. I answered her question with a simple "yes". Immediatelly my mom changed, like a human Transformer. Her tone of voice changed, her demenour, everything. Normally my mother is not prone to yelling out of anger. Yet, she just yelled at me in an accussing question saying something to the effect, "So are you now taking classes on how to torture Commandment Keepers in the last days?" I told her I wasn't, that Lutherans not only teach but also practice the love of Christ and in total horror and disgust I left her house and went home. Our relationship has been very strained since then. It was probably the most dreadful thing she could have ever heard from her only child. To a devout SDA it is better that one of theirs never sets foot in a church again or even become non-Christian than to become an apostate, or as my dad used to say, "He/she was converted to heathen". To get off the subject a bit, one of my children has been incarcerated quite a lot during his life. Praise God, that he has been out nearly a year now and I truly believe he won't be going back to prison ever again. However, several years ago while this son of mine was in the state prison my sweet daddy would go to visit his grandson at the prison every Sunday afternoon. At one visit my dad leaned over and asked my son if he ever ate the pork that was served there. My son assurred his grandpa that he is never even tempted to eat the pork. My dad was so proud of his grandson, that "his boy" was being so true and faithful to doing the Will of God. I never said anything to either of them but I thought then and still do that it is really spun. Here's the grandson in prison for obiviouselly breaking the law and the worst thing he could have done is eat a piece of bacon with his eggs at breakfast?! It's totally spun! BYW, the code words, "Commandment Keepers" ALWAYS referrs to SDA's. | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 502 Registered: 3-2001 |
Esther, I too understand your fear concerning having to "defend your position" to your family and other Adventists. I second what everyone else said. It is a none issue. The deepest argument you will hear from anyone is, "if the Sabbath isn't still binding, you're saying that you can live anyway that you want." I too have never been able to engage any Adventist in a theological conversation about why I left--although I would have loved to. I find that most Adventists are not as well versed in scripture as they would like others to believe. They are simply versed in Adventist doctrine. As such, they are uncomfortable with views that do not fit within their view of theology. I now realize that I was in the same boat. Only when I was willing to look outside the Adventist paradigm was I able to hear the Spirit speaking to me. Notice that in Adventism, you are always in a teaching mode. You never listen to, engage in dialogue with, or listen to any other view point. The underlying arrogance is what keeps the members from being open to other ideas. It is a very subtle tactic, but it works well to keep its members from searching--very cultish I would say. As Pheeki said, most people will choose to assume that your reason for leaving was personal (or moral), no matter what you tell them. Now comes the $1 million question: "what does it matter what others think about your decision." My fiance's parents are in agony over her decision to leave "the church" in order to join the "body of Christ." That is a sad commentary indeed, and simply shows the depth of deception that exists within Adventism. Let their response be a confirmation that you are indeed being led by the Spirit and that the Lord may be using you to lead them to the freedom that we have in Christ--paid for by his all sufficient sacrifice. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 260 Registered: 12-2003 |
Esther--absolutely you may use them. They're on line so people can use them whenever they wish. Doug--it's good to hear from you again. I've been wondering how you and your fiancee are doing. When will be getting married? Prayers for you both continue. You are so right in what you say about the Adventist "teaching mode". I realize that I was that way, also--although I usually tried to avoid doctrinal discussions with people as an Adventist. I'm so thankful for the fact that God honors our desires for truth! Colleen | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 115 Registered: 4-2002 |
Sister Esther, If those who question you are the same as those who have questioned me, you will be asked about the Sabbath, EGW, State of the dead, and the "health message". When they are through with the questions I always asked them,"Why is it that every time an Adventist asks me about leaving, they never ask me about Jesus?" In all the times I've been asked by my family and former fellow memberes, HE has never once been mentioned. Not only is that sad but it gives you ground to stand on that they seem to be very uncomfortable about entering. No matter what the question, bring the conversation back to Him. Remember what Jesus asked the deciples,pointedly? "Who do YOU say I am." That is the strongest rock that you as a believer can stand on and keep your eyes on. Never let any of them .. or any one else take the subject, your eyes, or your faith from JESUS In His Service <>< Thomas | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 262 Registered: 12-2003 |
Chris Lee, would you please email me at formeradventist@aol.com? I can't put my hands on your email address easily. Sorry for flagging you down publicly! Thanks! Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 333 Registered: 7-2003 |
No problem. I sent you an e-mail with both my work (most used), and my home e-mail addresses. Chris | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2003 |
Esther, My husband and I formally left 'the church' in February. No one came to visit us. Two people called to say they missed us and held no hard feelings against us. The pastor never called once we'd informed the church that we were leaving, though we had a couple of calls from him a few months prior to our leaving in which he attempted to address some of our concerns regarding EGW, the covenants, etc. In spite of the open letter we sent stating in brief the reason why we no longer could support the adventist denomination (i.e. the Gospel and various other doctrinal differences) most people continue to say that we left because we were 'hurt'. The few that we've remained in contact with have been loving but superficial at best - they aren't interested in any sort of doctrinal discussion. It's been amazing to me that no one wants to know WHY??? But as various others have attested, I think they are afraid of treading on that 'dangerous' ground of unbelief or doubt that they've been warned (via EGW) is of the devil. They close the door to any reasonable discussion because they are so afraid they will be decieved like they think you have been. I will be surprised if anyone questions you at all. If you are visited it won't be to debate what you believe but maybe to to try to express their deep concern and love for you to woo you back. Once they realize that you aren't coming back, you probably won't hear from them again. When we decided we could no longer be adventists I was very afraid of telling anyone, especially family (who are devout on both sides). Colleen encouraged me to pray for the Spirit of Jesus to replace the spirit of adventism that had had a hold on my thoughts for so long. When I began to do that the fear left and was replaced with a courage that was foreign to me (I'm niether brave nor confrontational by nature). It was difficult to hurt our families but we had to leave them in God's hands and do what we knew was right in standing for the truth as it is in Jesus. I have never regretted it! Spokenfor | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 319 Registered: 1-2003 |
Has anyone ever wondered why there is so much "hurting" of people in the SDA church? I say this because that seems to be the conclusion the members jump to for us leaving...so what does that say????? That most everyone gets hurt by them...know what I am trying to say? It's like status quo to be hurt by the SDA church members. The Law does worketh wrath!!!! |
