| Author | Message | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Lynn, I asked that as a loaded question to Mom and got an answer I can not understand. She says she never was asked to go over any F.D. or any thing on a B.C. She says she did not sign a B.C. and has not even seen it! She was baptized last Christmas! Go figure that one out? Hey, good to hear from you once in a while :-) Maryann | ||
| Maryann |
I will bet none of us saw this on the network news. I don't send out a lot of this stuff, but Mr. Scott hit the problem dead on.... On Thursday, May 27, 1999, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's sub-committee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript about both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. ''We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers. The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart. "In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent. "I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy - it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. "I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today. "Your laws ignore our deepest needs Your words are empty air You've stripped away our heritage You've outlawed simple prayer Now gunshots fill our classrooms And precious children die You seek for answers everywhere And ask the question "Why" You regulate restrictive laws Through legislative creed And yet you fail to understand That God is what we need!" "Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual influences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation?" "We have refused to honor God, and in doing so, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs, politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to eroding our personal and private liberties. "We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political posturing and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The young people of our nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place that will not be squelched!" "We do not need more religion. We do not need more gaudy television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not need more million dollar church buildings built while people with basic needs are being ignored. We do need a change of heart and a humble acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple trust in God!" "As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right!" "I challenge every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School - prayer was brought back to our schools." "Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God - given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your fingers at the NRA - I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone! My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!" ----------------------------------------------- Be courageous enough to do what the media did not, let the nation hear this man's speech. Please send this out to everyone you can. | ||
| Julia |
Thanks Maryann, I found this speech at thecolumbineredemption.com and sent it on to some friends. Julia | ||
| Wendy Forsyth |
And when they legislate a day to spiritually connect with your God to ensure a return to the founding father's values, so that more innocent children won't die, will you still deny Revelation and the prophecies of EGWhite? Watching prophecy unfold--- Wendy | ||
| Max |
A question anyone may answer: Where in the Bible and the Bible only is there so much as a single prophecy that "they" will legislate a day to spiritually connect with our God to ensure a return to the founding father's values? | ||
| Allenette |
What your major media is unfortunately not telling you (for those of you who think there is this huge media-related conspiracy to reject God in any form): the girl who was shot, did NOT say "Yes I am a Christian" and then took a bullet. This is inspirational media hype which has not been corrected, since the father has been so successful parading around the country (my son's high school included) with his inspirational msg. Sorry. I kinda wish it was true, too, but media being what it is.... | ||
| Max |
So what's new? There were conspiracy theories in New Testament times -- gnosticism, for example -- and there will always be, it seems. But why blame the media? News is a commodity. Supply and demand reign. For example, 2 Timothy 4:3-4 NIV: "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." Now, if Rupert Murdoch and Ted Turner were around then with all the requisite electronic resources as their command, don't you think that they would create a media megalith -- if not gigalith or even teralith -- to create "scratching news for itching ears"? | ||
| Lydell |
However, Allenette, the girl crouched next to her was crying out to God. One of the shooters heard her and apparently chose her for that reason to be his next tarket. | ||
| Allenette |
Are you saying that the shooter DIDNT shoot the girl who WAS "crying out to God"? Or are you changing this tragic myth to: she was shot because she DIDNT cry out to God? I'd rather NOT mythologize that tragedy into ANYTHING it really wasnt. I just personally prefer accuracy and truth rather than feel good (or feel bad ggg) ANYTHING. Perhaps an early life spent having someone pull the wool down over my eyes has left me permanently SKEPTICAL of everything! Boo Hoo. ;-) | ||
| Max |
Go, Allenette! | ||
| Maryann |
Hi All You Americans;-), Well, tomorrow is the big day!! Don't forget to exercise your right's and vote your conscience;-)! Maryann | ||
| Max |
Give to Caesar what is his, and to God what is his. --Jesus | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Guyz, Well, I just couldn't pass the Library without stopping. I heard something on the radio this morning that was interesting. I'm not to good at this verbatum stuff but here goes. When Leiberman accepted his nomination for Vice President, he used the name, Jesus, 17 times in 90 minutes and NO accusations of, "Torah thumper" were tossed around! Yet, when Ashcroft was nominated for Attorney General, all kinds of flack has come up!! Talk about the SDA's being afraid of the "Sunday Law!" What about the Evangelical, Bible believing, believing in the finished work of Christ Christians!!!!!! For those of you that are NOT aware, the sect of people that are most discriminated against are us, the Evangelical Christians!!! Someone else can carry on this thread as I HAVE to disappear again for a few dayzzz:,,,,-(( :):):)........Maryann | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 93 Registered: 3-2004 |
This appears to be a good place to make a comment because I do not know what question to ask. As an SDA I was a firm believer in the separation of church and state to delay the persecution of the SDA people. I not longer believe that the RCC is the beast. I know many Christians and SDAs that believe that prayer is OK in public schools. This is something I need to pray about and ask God about as I am kind of confused when I hear about the ACLU wanting to take prayer out of public schools. As I said I do not know what question to ask. Diana | ||
| Debbie Registered user Username: Debbie Post Number: 52 Registered: 7-2000 |
Unfortunately, The ACLU wants to take EVERYTHING Christian out of ANYTHING government. They appear to particularly focus on Christians. For example, last week, I believe, there was a local LA news report about how the ACLU was going to sue the city of Pomona unless they remove a cross symbol that has been on their fire trucks for over 50 years. However, the fire trucks also have a (much larger) symbol of the goddess of Pomona on them as well. Of course, the ACLU weren't the least bit concerned about the goddess of Pomona symbol. Their reason for wanting the cross removed? It represents a religious tradition that not everybody believes in. And it being on a government vehicle violates "the separation of church and state." The main thing that really bothered me about this news story is that they were not concerned about the goddess symbol. Maybe I'm missing something here, but the last time I checked, goddesses represented religion also....(?????) So then wouldn't that also violate the supposed "separation of church and state" also? To me, the ACLU stands for the "Anti-Christian Liberties Union" and nothing more. Debbie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 274 Registered: 12-2003 |
Diana, I went through a period of time during which I began to see the separation of church and state through new eyes. It took me a while. At first, the SDA position seemed good because if we allow NO religion in public schools and places, then we won't be baraged with wicca, new age, etc. (so my thinking went). If we do not allow any religion in school, then we, of course, cannot allow Christianity either. To be fair, we can't condone Christian traditions in public ceremonies and places and deny the traditions we don't approve. I began to realize, however, that separation of church and state did not mean that people could not practice or speak of their religion in public places; what it meant to the founding fathers was that the state would not establish an official church. The federal government would not establish an approved religion and give perks, so to speak, to the members. In fact, quite the opposite was true. The freedom of assembly and the freedom of speech guaranteed that we could practice and speak of our beliefs in public without the government shutting us down. The Adventist spin of separation of church and state stems entirely from a pesecution complex. They approve the banning of prayer and religion of all kinds from public places in order to "deserve" fair treatment for themselves. In other words, if the Adventist church approves banning religion from public policy and practice, then they would have a foundation from which to complain when the Sunday law goes into effect. Can't have that--we have separation of church and state! So, Adventists are willing to help ban all semblance of Christian practice and tradition from public places in order to protect themselves from the coming Sunday law. The true intent of the law is twisted; they don't see the issue as freedom to worship without interference; they see it as ridding the public of religion so they can be safe in the future. The reality that Christianity is being specifically atacked while new age agendas ofen find their ways into public school curricula does not seem to be nearly so great a threat to them as the threat that the government might establish a precedent that would allow it to approve a day of worship. Colleen | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 89 Registered: 9-2003 |
The ACLU is terribly misunderstood. I urge you to try these links, Debbie. http://www.aclu.org/StudentsRights/StudentsRights.cfm?ID=15680&c=159 http://archive.aclu.org/news/2002/n071102b.html http://archive.aclu.org/news/n093098a.html These links are not exactly representative. The ACLU expends a lot of energy getting crosses removed from public institutions, which strikes me as more silly than anything else. Many people fail to understand WHY the separation of church and state is so important. That is ironic in this forum, where so many of you are familiar with EGW's "Sunday Law" prediction. It would indeed be a horrible injustice, for such a law to be passed. Our SDA friends, and Jews, and Moslems, would be greatly harmed. If there ever WAS a "Sunday Law", the ACLU would be there in the front lines, fighting it as a terrible violation of the Constitution. The Constitution is an important part of what makes this country great. The ACLU is dedicated to protecting that great document, and so preserving our nation. First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." There is a lot of discussion on this board about finding a church. The reason why we have such a variety to choose from in this country, is because of our wonderful First Amendment, the principle defender of which is the ACLU. If you disagree with that, then we'll have to agree to disagree. - Hoytster | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 69 Registered: 3-2004 |
Iím another one who is still in flux with the issue of the separation of church and state. I have come to believe much like you, Colleen, that the freedom to speak up as a Christian is important rather than banning everyone from speaking out. And, of course, that same freedom holds true for all. Thereís a tremendous wave occurring nationwide right now loosely known as ìmarketplace ministryî where the basic premise is that you are as much a minister on your job as a pastor is in the pulpit. That doesnít mean you push pamphlets on people to proselytize them, but pray over your coworkers without their awareness and wait for the Holy Spirit to direct conversations. A good book is one called Anointed for Business by Ed Silvoso. I volunteer for his ministry and I know from the times Iíve been privileged to hear Ed speak to our leadership team, where heís able to share more of his heart than in his formal seminars, that heís a godly man whoís passionate for souls. I believe heís one of the leaders around now who can help break down inappropriate boundaries. Also, his previous book Prayer Evangelism is a great read. Os Hillman, http://www.marketplaceleaders.org, is another major leader in the marketplace movement. However, with all the good things I see happening with appropriate walls being broken down, Iím still concerned that many Christians still see freedom as primarily the venue for Christians. I have friends who are horrified that Michigan cities are starting to allow the Islamic call to prayer to be played over loudspeakers. And one city is considering adding Moslem Holy Days to official city holidays. I happen to live in an area where there are suspected Moslem terrorist activities being constantly monitored by the government. So the freedom issue gets very sticky for Christians when it gets outside of Christianity. Iíve found many are almost condemning about others having freedom along with the Christian community because they see so many turning away from Christianity. Iím not sure Iím making myself very clear here so Iíll just quit with this and see if anyone else has a better explanation. I believe Adventists were wrong in wanting to shut out people sharing or praying as a constitutional right. I guess Iím questioning as to where are the appropriate boundaries? Praise GodÖ | ||
| Debbie Registered user Username: Debbie Post Number: 53 Registered: 7-2000 |
Hoyster, I don't mean to imply that there's nothing good that the ACLU does...But we musn't forget that "Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve." (2 Corinthians 11:14) Oh, and by the way, Hoyster, You didn't mention what you thought about the fact that the ACLU was planning to sue the city of Pomona if they did not remove the symbol of the cross--which represents Christianity (and the only way to God the Father and Heaven <John 14:6>--but they were not in the least bit concerned about the symbol of the goddess of Pomona--which represents paganism (and the way to Hell)????? "But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ...And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in what they boast about. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ." (2 Corinthians 11:3,12-13) In Jesus' Love, Debbie | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 90 Registered: 9-2003 |
Hi, Debbie. Let me express my admiration for your passion. I wish I felt so strongly about such matters. Regarding the Pomona pagan symbol: I think this is an SDA thing. The word "pagan" is not in my working lexicon. In my Methodist church, we do not have any reason to discuss how "Easter" gets its name from Astarte, or that "Sunday" is named for the sun god. These are things I never heard of before I encountered my son's Adventist mother. Projecting my own viewpoint (which is what we all do, almost by definition), I would guess that almost no one looks at the Pomona symbol and sees it as having any religious content. It's just an interesting artifact from an ancient culture. No one thinks that there is a coven of Pomona-worshippers receiving free advertising on the fire truck.  I looked it up: Pomona was the Roman goddess of fruit. Not that diabolical. More seriously, we do not have a minority population who holds beliefs contrary to Pomonasim, who are harmed by the prevalence of Pomona's symbol. We do have Jews, Moslems, and B'hais, Hindi's, etc., however. We have to love all these non-Christians, and one way to love them is to stop using our shared government to put OUR symbol in their faces. - Hoytster |
