| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 107 Registered: 3-2004 |
I cannot find where I posted that I received a letter from the local SDA church. They want to put my picture in their church directory and I do not want it there. I could have just written a letter telling the pastor I did not want it or I could have just not shown up. But I think I would be derelict in my duty to God if I did not tell the pastor why I do not want my picture in the church directory. Following is my letter. Dear Pastor Denny, I received the letter about the new directory for the church. My picture and address will not be in it. And I will tell you why. Right about Christmas time I rediscovered a site I had book marked on my computer. I had not gone into it since before I left Virginia. It is all about EGWhite and how she plagiarized from others, about how some things in her books were changed and how others wrote parts of her books. She said she was inspired by God. In my mind doing what she did was not being inspired by God. Seeing as one of the 27 beliefs one has to sign when they join the SDA church is a belief in the spirit of prophecy, I can no longer believe in her as inspired by God. There is too much proof that she was not. Seeing as EGWhite had such an influence on the SDA doctrine I decided to study the SDA doctrine for my self. So I bought a Strongís Bible Concordance to go along with my KJV Bible. I also used the Modern Language Bible, New Berkeley Version. I started with the Sabbath. What I found is that it is not mentioned in Genesis at all. It says in Gen 2:2,3 ìOn the seventh day God ended His work which He had been doing; He rested on the seventh day from all the works He had accomplished. God also blessed the seventh day and consecrated it; because in it He rested from all His works, which in creating, He had formedî. It says nothing about the 7th day having a morning and an evening. The Sabbath is not mentioned in connection with the patriarchs. It is not mentioned as the Sabbath until Exodus 16: 23 when the children of Israel were given manna from heaven and were told not to gather it on the Sabbath as it would not be there, but to gather twice as much on the day before the Sabbath. At Sinai God made a covenant with the children of Israel and he made this covenant with them because as it says in Ex 20:1 ìGod spoke all these words, saying; I am the lord your God, who has brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaveryî Then he gave the 10 commandments and all the other laws found in Leviticus. It was a covenant with the Children of Israel only. In the New Testament Jesus left no command to keep the Sabbath. John 13:34 reads I give you a new command, ìLove one another. Just as I have loved you, so you should love one another. By this everyone will recognize that you are My disciples, if you love one another.î John 15:9, 10 reads ìJust as the Father has loved Me so I have loved you; continue in this love of Mine. You will remain in My love if you keep my commands, just as I keep My Fatherís commands and remain in His loveî. John 15:12 ìThis is my command, that you love one another as I have loved youî. John 15:17 ìThis is My command to you: Love one another. John 17:3 ìAnd this is eternal life, to know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou has sent. 1John3:23,24 And this is His command, that we put our faith in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and that we love one another as He commanded us. He who obeys His commands remains in Him and He in him. By this we know that He remains in us, through the Spirit whom He has given us. 1John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, because love springs from God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God; for God is love. I have learned that the gospel is Jesus Christ and like Paul says in 1 Cor 2:2 ìfor I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucifiedî, I too am determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I have only just begun my study and am finding out what the Bible really says. I ask God to tell and show me what He wants me to learn each time I read the Bible. He does. When I first learned of EGWhite and her plagiarism, I was angry at the church leaders in the General Conference for not telling the members about the plagiarism. I am no longer angry at them, I am sad for them and pray for them that they will learn the truths of the Bible. My name has not been on the church books for a long time. It was taken off when I quit attending church after my divorce. So all I am asking is that my name be taken out of the Mt View church directory. I could have written and told you I am not attending your church any more, but I could not write without telling why I am not attending. I would be doing God a disservice if I did that. With Godís Love, Diana | ||
| Kme Registered user Username: Kme Post Number: 47 Registered: 7-2000 |
Diana, Almost every SDA that I have ever talked to about the Baptisimal vows saying that you believe in EGW as the Spirit of Prophecy has denied that this is so. So many SDA's today to be "politically correct" will say they believe in at least some of what she wrote but aren't sure she was a prophet. They really don't get at all the fact that you can't come of the some of the doctrines of the church without her interpretation. They all will tell you that they can be proven just from the Bible alone. I once asked a close pastor friend and his wife if they knew of anyone that had studied just the Bible and had converted to SDA because they agreed with their interpretation of it. They claimed that their daughter personally knew a man that had. I have to say I would be suprised if that really was the case. Kme | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 588 Registered: 11-2002 |
Seems to me like your letter pretty much sums it all up quite well. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 339 Registered: 7-2003 |
Kme, the SDA in my life has also claimed there are people who have come into his church studying the Bible alone. i suspect they are only talking about the Sabbath issue, however. Because when i ask how they studied the bible alone and discovered EGW was a prophet, he acts like I've asked the stupidest question on the earth. The only person I personally know who decided to leave a Sunday church to attend the SDA church did so because he couldn't understand why 9 of the 10 commandments still applied and the SDAs gave him answer he could make sense of. Though he eventually learned the other doctrines, he didn't get into them that much since he already had a grace background. He eventually left the SDA church realizing they did not teach the gospel. But he still struggles over the Sabbath issue. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 340 Registered: 7-2003 |
BTW, nice letter...very loving tone...but I understand most SDAs to think every use of the word "command" to mean the 10. At least that's what B says. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 283 Registered: 12-2003 |
Diana, I am proud of you for writing such a clear letter to the pastor. Please let us know how he responds! Kme, You're right about many Adventists saying they're not sure EGW was a prophet--the say she was helpful about many things and wrote some good devotional material, but they don't really think she was a prophet. What I discovered during my leaving process was that it is VERY different to say EGW was a false prophet than to say she wasn't a prophet. Most Adventist will not say she was a false prophet. The difference that label made in my mind was huge; "false prophet" meant I had to completely abandon anything she ever said. I couldn't retain her influence when it seemed like it might be helpful and let it go when it didn't make sense. "False prophet" meant I had to re-examine all the doctrines, because all of them had been filtered through her. "Not a prophet" can mean simply that she was a good woman who wrote helpful, insightful things. "False prophet" means she was NOT a good woman; she was working with the "other side", and nothing she said can be considered valid for life and godliness. I understand Adventists who says she was not a prophet; I was one of them for many years. But I didn't get rid of her, so to speak, until I admitted she was a false prophet. Praise God for truth! Colleen | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 93 Registered: 9-2003 |
I think it is clear that EGW was either a prophet or a false prophet. "It was shown to me..." over and over. The special glow around the 4th commandment. She certainly made no bones about the fact that God was (so she alleged) giving her messages to pass onto her readers. So she is SOME kind of prophet, by her own words. False, I think we would all say in this forum. I have sardonically remarked that apparently God showed her which works to plagiarize; her theft of other people's ideas and words was inspired from on high. Kidding. - Hoytster | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 340 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hoytster, I think you make an excellent point when you suggest that EGW didn't leave us any middle ground. According to her own testimony her words were either directly from God or directly from the enemy. You're right, no one should feel comfortable just saying she was a good teacher, but not a prophet. Your final remark may be sardonic, but it is exactly the tact SDAs use to defend EGW's plagerism.....believe it or not. Chris | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 116 Registered: 4-2002 |
Saying the EGW was a good teacher but not a prophet is like those who say that Jesus was a great teacher and a good man, but not God. You have to judge them by the claims they made for themselves. Either Jesus WAS the son of God, or he was the most evil man who ever lived or he was totally dillusional. Why? Because of the claims He made for Himself. He can't be one without being the "whole bananna". Same for EGW. Because of the claims she made for herself, she either WAS a prophet or "messenger" of God, or she was false. There is no other choice. By their claims they must be accepted .. or totally rejected. It just matters where you place your faith! I'm so glad that mine is In Him! <>< Thomas | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 113 Registered: 3-2004 |
It would have been nice if I had waited to send the letter after I let all of you read this. But I sent it before. That is okay as I will send another letter letting the pastor know that I know that EGWhite is a false prophet and that is why I can no longer believe in her. I have no problem writing a second letter. I prayed about the first and will pray about the second. Thanks for your input. What you said and what I believe about EGW being a false prophet is important. It is important that the pastor know that. Diana | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2004 |
This is a little off the subject, but I read about baptism in some previous e-mail listed above, which brought me back to thinking about the baptism certificate I received when I joined the SDA in 1985. After leaving in 1986, I fell into the Church of Christ group (another extreme clan) and got baptized through their church. I've been with Calvary Chapel for the last 12 years. Would you recommend getting re-baptized again? | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 39 Registered: 5-2004 |
I'd say that is a very personal decision, no one can really advise you. For me, I think I might consider it. I see baptism as an outward confirmation of an inner commitment to Christ, not nearly necessary for salvation, but an important public affirmation of faith in Christ. totally and completely up to you and your convictions. I'll pray that God leads you to His will in the matter! | ||
| Kme Registered user Username: Kme Post Number: 51 Registered: 7-2000 |
Pw, I would contemplate the reasons I feel I want to be re-baptised again and then pray about it. This is another area I was challenged with when I wanted to become a member of a Missionary Baptist church I had been attending for about a year. Being baptised was the only way to join that church. I had been baptised twice before in the SDA church and did not feel compelled to be baptised for the sake of church membership so I did not. The Bible talks of one baptism in Jesus. Having said that though, I do believe it is between you in God. Have a blessed day. Kme | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2004 |
Thanks for the advice. I haven't felt the call to get baptised again, so I will leave it at that. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 597 Registered: 11-2002 |
About getting bapitized again- Bibically it is not a requrement as the Bible teaches One Bapitizm. I wanted the pastor at the Lutheran church I attend to bapitize me and at first he didn't want to bcause I had been bapitized SDA at age 17. I made an apointment to speek with him in his office privatelly during which time I gave him an extremely breif overview of the more unBibical and goofy teachings abd official doctrines of the SDA religion and then he agreed to bapitize me as a Christian. i believe it is a very personal decision. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 604 Registered: 11-2002 |
"Preach the gosple always, if necessary use words." Saint Francis of Assissi | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 160 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have not received anything from the SDA pastor, but I did receive something from a member of the SDA church where I used to attend in VA. My name was on a list he got from someone else, so I received information about the Columbia Union Conference. I wrote to the man, as his wife was my son's first grade teacher and he teaches the SS class at the church. I told him the same thing I told the pastor, in fact I sent the exact letter, but I added that EGW is a false prophet. I was not trying to convince him he was wrong, but was writing why I am no longer SDA. His reply seems to be typical of those I have heard about on this forum, but he is being very polite. He knows about EGW and the Sabbath. Yet he said that the SDA church is the closest to his beliefs and the sabbath is important to him. This man is an educated man and a Bible student. When I answered his letter all I said is that I was making a suggestion and that is that we both pray that God will teach us what He wants us to know. I did not put "with an open mind". Oh, well. Can't thing of everything. In his answer to me he had to boast that he has written some Bible lessons and that they have been translated into 10 languages. This was before he went through my letter and made comments. I had to laugh at that. Some one on this forum posted a letter he wrote about S. Bacchiochi on this forum. It was about the movie the Passion of Christ. If he writes again, I will not argue or debate with him. Pray for me please. If he writes back I want to write what God wants me to write. God is awesome. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 332 Registered: 12-2003 |
Diana, I'm praying that you will be surrenderd to Jesus, and that His thoughts and words will be yours. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 161 Registered: 3-2004 |
Colleen, I am surprised I even wrote to this person. He has his doctor's of jurisprudence, is the SS teacher for the adults at his church and preaches sermons every so often when the regular minister is not there. On my own I would be crazy to think I could write to him. But I was not typing my words. I asked God to be in charge and as I am writing this I am reminded that Christ's discples were uneducated fishermen. And look what they did. In the past as an SDA I would never have taken on some one with that much education. I am coming to the conclusion, that just because they have a lot of education and have studied the Bible, they do not always know the truth. I have nothing against education. The problem is that those who have the education to teach are not always telling the students the truth because they are afraid for the jobs, friends, etc. So, thank you for your prayers. I can use all I can get. Diana | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 178 Registered: 3-2004 |
I received an answer from my lawyer acquaintance today. In my answer, which was short, I told him lets us just pray for each other that God will show us the Bible truths as we study the Bible. I did not try to debate or defend anything I said. I just said I was explaining why I was no longer a member of the SDA church. He agreed we would pray for each other. That was it. Thank You God for putting the words in my head to write. We do have an awesome God. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 346 Registered: 12-2003 |
Diana, thank you for sharing the results of your letter. God really is faithful, and He really does give us His words and His wisdom. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 478 Registered: 3-2004 |
It is interesting, but I never did hear from the minister I wrote to about taking my name out of the church directory. Not a peep. Diana | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 164 Registered: 2-2002 |
Talking above of Bible scholars (I'm not sure where else to put this,) I recently had a conversation with a close SDA friend. She & I have avoided talking about our theological differences since I left the church, however, the conversation was such that I felt very comfortable bringing up the subject of the Sabbath. I asked my friend if she had prayerfully read Galatians like I had once suggested. She admitted she had not, but that she had talked to her husband about it (he's a pastor,) and that she or I or anyone for that matter can read the Bible and interpret it differently. But, she went on to say, her husband knows the meanings of the original languages in which the Bible was written, and is able to explain it to her so she understands it. She then suggested we all get together to talk about it some time. Putting aside the fact that this in itself sounds pretty ridiculous (at least in my opinion,) what do the SDA Bible "scholars" use to defend their position on the Sabbath as it pertains to original meanings of the Greek, or Hebrew, or whatever....(am I showing MY ignorance?!?) For me, the Bible (at least my NIV)is fairly easy to understand, and the "Good News," is simple and beautiful. I always felt as an SDA that you had to bend over backwards and jump through hoops to prove a particular doctrine, now the New Testament is not difficult to comprehend at all (except maybe Revelation!) Just wondering what kind of theory or argument I might be facing if I ever have this discussion with my friend and her husband. Love you all, Carol P.S. Miss you Sabra!!! Why'd you have to move farther away?? I'm still hoping we Southeasterners can some day meet & attend a Christian conference of some sort! | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 441 Registered: 7-2003 |
Carol, it is my understanding that SDAs in general do not think the law done away with in Galatians or "until the seed" included the 10 commandments. As long as they divide the law into "God's law" and "Moses law" as though one is subserviant to the other, making one fulfillable and the other not, Galatians can be read and made to say what they think the Bible teaches. Unless it specifically mentions a 10 C, B will say "we" don't read scripture carefully enough. He says it references "ceremonial laws", therefore is not talking about "God's moral law". I've pointed out texts which specifically quote one of the 10 Cs to show Paul sees the 10 Cs and the rest of them as the same law, but it is pointless. It's a "want to see" type thing from my experience. I do not personally know HOW you get by Galatians and think it skips the 10 Cs. We know the 10 Cs were given at Sinai, but some people have their preconceived ideas that the 10 Cs aren't done away with and scripture will not change that opinion...in my opinion. It's a Holy Spirit thing. I remember the first former I emailed, Janet Brown. All I wanted to know was what woke her up...and she responded back and said I wasn't going to like it, but the Holy Spirit was what changed her. There wasn't a particular text or message, just a sincere desire to learn from the Spirit. Unfortunately, you can't make people have that. | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 49 Registered: 5-2004 |
Carol, It's so hard and uncertain footing when talking with SDA's. I just had a conversation with one of my coworkers yesterday who I thought was going to be receptive. I'd been waiting for God to give me an opening. And wouldn't you know, it came in the form of food laws. But even though i showed her 4 verses in the new testament regarding not judging what another eats, and bringing up God's own words to Noah after the flood, she resorted to quoting from Mark Finley (who she doesn't even like). She's a pretty evangelical Adventist who isn't to tied to EGW, and yet would even discuss that the food laws weren't applicable anymore. When I saw the resistance, I knew not to bring up the rest of the laws. Though several of her comments on moral vs ceremonial really brought out the worst in me and I really wanted to jump into a tirade of how we should be keeping the WHOLE law then because there is no difference. Luckily, God controlled my tongue and I withdrew to silently pray thanking God for helping me see, and yet my heart cried out for how blind humanity can be. Myself included. Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that you can have the case all explained and lay it out so clearly, and yet it all boils down to whether or not they're sincerely looking for truth and God has touched them or not. The only thing you can do is pray, pray, pray. And then present the Gospel, and if they accept it, Hallelujah, and if not, just let it go. But persevere anyway...because we never know when we've been able to plant even a small seed  God bless you and lead you if and when you meet with your friend. | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 167 Registered: 10-2001 |
Carol!! Girl! You have not been keeping up here. :P I moved back to Chattanooga. I missed my church so much and Ricky got a job offer here so I said, "take it!" I'm in the same neighborhood so you can come up and visit and go to church with me again!! I'm just being a bum, sitting home, feeling useless, sure that God has something to do with me. I haven't looked for a job, thinking of going back to school when my little one starts kindergarten next year. As far as your friend goes: if she relly was seeking truth she would have read Galatians. They don't want to know, they are comfortable where they are, they are afraid of being deceived. Hearts of stone and blinded just like Pharisees. It's likely you will hear the same old, "If you love God, you will keep His commandments." Nevermind that those are love God, love your neighbor. Even in the OT this is evident in Micah. Basically, it's just too hard for some to "sell all" and follow God. Traditions of men. I wanted to go and see Joyce last week, but I wasn't unpacked enough! We'll get together for sure. Love ya! Sabra | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 589 Registered: 12-2003 |
Melissa, Janet Brown's response was simple and profound. The Holy Spirit IS who wakes us up. Until we desire truth, no matter the cost, and want to follow Jesus His way, we won't see the plainest Bible truths. Carol, a disucssion such as your friend suggests could be a dreadful waste of time--or it could fane into flame a tiny spark. It sounds futile from your description, but God will make it clear to you whether or not such a study would be His will for you. Colleen | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 442 Registered: 7-2003 |
You know, I couldn't believe Janet at first. I was sure there had to be something and started on this head-long journey to find out what it would be. Nearly 5 years later, I completely understand what she meant. We are taught the word of God transforms people, but only if they embrace it into their lives. It seems SDAs have a shield to guard them against the simplicity of God's word ... which I find incredibly ironic. They make it so complex and that it means things it doesn't say or says things it doesn't mean...blah blah blah. I was so disappointed when I first got her response. But understand it completely now. | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 165 Registered: 2-2002 |
I was just blown away by the response that my friend couldn't understand it, the insinuation that I can't understand the Bible, and that we should just trust her husband, the Pastor, since he knows all the original meanings of the words. Incredible! Sabra - glad you're back - we're in the process of selling our house, moving into an apartment, and building a cabin up in Blue Ridge - won't be too far from you in Chattanooga! Love and prayers to all, and thanks for your input. Carol |
