| Author | Message | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 283 Registered: 7-2003 |
oooh, so sorry. I thought sales rank meant numbers sold. That was my misunderstanding. So sorry for the mis-information, it was certainly unintentional. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 183 Registered: 12-2003 |
Melissa, I understand! The point I still take from the issue of CWB sales is the deception it disseminates. Praie God He is sovereign, and, as both our pastor and his wife often say, "God does not let anyone sin successfully forever." We're all in His hands. Colleen | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 417 Registered: 6-2002 |
I certainly would not think that Amazon.com sells many of the CWB. I had not paid attention to the source of the millions. It would be interesting to see how many have sold from all sources, especially the ABC. I still think it might have reached hundreds of thousands, but that is just a guess. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 506 Registered: 11-2002 |
The SDA's sure make a big deal about the JW's and their twisted New World Translation of the Scriptures. And, the Clear Word is every bit as twisted. And, I know that SDA's use this book as a Bible. I sit in a SDA church frequently and I see numerous people bringing those books with them to the service and using these books to look up whatever they want to know from the Bible. | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 418 Registered: 6-2002 |
Is so . . . Is not! Yesterday, my wife asked me to get a few things from another room as she left for the SDA church. " . . . could you get my Bible, the one in the cover with the handle. . . Oh, and my Clear Word (slight pause ) BIBLE, too." This, from the woman who, several days ago, at the top of her lungs, protested that it is a "paraphrase, NOT a Bible." <<sigh, roll eyes>> I got them for her without saying a word. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 64 Registered: 4-2000 |
Jerry, As I stated on another thread, I know an elderly, Adventist couple that use the Clear Word Bible exclusively for their Sabbath School Quarterly daily lesson plan. Recently, the husband said to me, "That Bible really makes things plain." Being this is an in-house Bible that speaks their unique language, many Adventists look no further in their Bible study. It unashamedably confirms their views. It is like a commentary instead of a paraphrase. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 211 Registered: 12-2003 |
That's a really great distinction, Dennis: it's a commentary, not a paraphrase. I had a conversation not too long ago with Dale Ratzlaff in which the subject came up regarding emerging pockets of Adventists who are trying to return to original Adventism, the Adventism of the church's founding fathers and mother. (See George Knight's annotations in the new Questions on Doctrine as well as Steve Pitcher's review of the book on this website.) Knight states that these groups are pushing to return to anit-trinitarian views (among other things) since that was the original understanding of the founding Adventists. Dale's reply was, Yes, the Clear Word actually supports that belief. Verle Streifling (his works are avilable on Dale's website: www.ratzlaf.com) has written a paper comparing the references to Jesus in the Clear Word with their parallel references in Greek. It's astonishing how significantly the Clear Word edits out or waters down the references to Jesus' divinity wherever possible. Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 306 Registered: 1-2003 |
In the foyer of a church I attended (only because my husband played music there...they are trying to attract former SDA's by saying "there is no condemnation or judgment here"...they put adds in the local newspaper..."come try us out".) they have the spinning booklet case and nestled amongst all the ususal propaganda for health, etc. is a little book of the Gospel of John...in the Clear Word Translation (Paraphrase). Oh, it is definately meant as a Bible. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 602 Registered: 11-2002 |
My comment here is not about Twisted Bibles but it is about Twisted Doctrines and I don't know how to make a new topic heading so I'll use this one. As you all know by now I think the Signs of the Times is a super twisted magazine and each issue gets to me more than any pervious one ever has. I think for my own mental health and well-being I should use self-control and even if I see this trash on my moms coffee table I should not pick it up and look through it. I will pray for self restraint about this. However, I did today pick up the July 2004 issue of that magazine and once again I'm realing about the unBibicalness promoted in it. There is an article in it about the Covenants. It seems to be a rebuttle to the book by Dale R., although the the article never mentions Dale R. or any books he wrote. However, in this article Doug Batuchler says, "in order to be saved one must become a spiritual Jew". I have never gotten this from my studying the N.T. I am a Gentile, I will always be a Gentile. Jesus says he came to save the Jew first and then the Gentile. Nowhere have I ever read that as Gentiles we are to become spiritual Jews. Spiritually we are Christians. Of course, the article is written to convnce the reader of the continuing valitity of the ten commandments, especially the forth (or for us Lutherans, the third). As a Gentile Christian I don't have any obligation to become a spiritual Jew. Where do they come up with this? Are they totally stupid or am I missing something I should know? I read, read and read some more my N.T. and I ave not come to this conclusion at all ever. And, I can have a pretty good immagination when I want to but I just can't find any Bibical basis for becomming a spiritual Jew. That seems to be an oxymoron. Either one is a Jew or one isn't a Jew. And, in this case Jew refers to religion, not ethnisity. I don't see how religiouselly one can be a Jew and a Christian and I think from the article that it is implied that Chistians are to be Spiritually Jewish Christians. Doesn't make sense at all! Does anyone understand what the heck that guy is trying to get across and is there any Bibical logic to it? | ||
| Kme Registered user Username: Kme Post Number: 57 Registered: 7-2000 |
Susan, The arguement that we are spiritual jews was used on me when we left the 7th day church. It seems like I remember reading something to that effect somewhere in the new testament however, it was used out of context for that purpose. I really need to look in another version but the NIV says in Romans 15:27 (They were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews' spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jew to share with them their material blessings.) Ephesians 3:4-6 (In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which wa not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.)Clearly, if those texts were to be used to prove that we are spiritual jews, it would be taken out of context. Then you have Colossians 3:11 which would negate all of it by saying (Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all and is in all.) I will look in the KJV and see if I can find anything else. I'm sure that somebody who has a computer version of the Bible could be of more assistance. Hope that helps. One more thing I have been convicted on that might be helpful is I used to watch 3ABC when I first left the SDA church to try to understand where it ran amuck and probably just out of morbid curiousity. I finally after prayerful consideration, gave it up. I was really mentally tormented by the "old tapes" I had been programed with and it was doing nothing to further my walk with God and my understanding of the Gospel. To be honest, sometimes that happens to me on this website. If you notice, I'm active on here for a while, and then I totally fade out for a period of time, because although I need support at times when I have been overloaded with SDA baggage, I can become eaten up with the negativity of something I'm trying to leave behind if I dwell on it too much. So let the Holy Spirit be your guide. I personally am grateful that some people who are steady here can cope with it and it doesn't get to be too much. I know there are many people who are reached with the truth of the Gospel through this website! Have a blessed day in the light of Jesus. Kme | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 605 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear Kme, What you say is so true regarding me, too. I think reading SDA literature, watching SDA videos, listening to SDA people, weather they be clergy or regular folks from the community I know tends to get me in a negative spirit and get my focus away from the joy and peace I experience when I put my focus of Jesus, Him risin only. But, even with the SDA stuff some things irritate me more than others and The Signs tops it off. | ||
| Debandhenry Registered user Username: Debandhenry Post Number: 6 Registered: 6-2004 |
We just received our first issue of "Proclamation" and I was like a child on Christmas morning with a new toy which was highly anticipated all year long. Oh, it feels so good to be in the fellowship of like Christians as yourselves and knowing I am able to come to this site when ever the soul needs and not be condemmed or talked about in a belitting way. When we finally made the dash out of our church, we also put all the books, tapes etc. into boxes and we took it to the church basement in the office shared by the Treasurer and Clerk (yup, our old office) and left them there with our keys! This was a big step of stepping out into fresh air and getting a fresh start. The next thing was to call and cancel the subscriptions to the Review,Signs and 3ABN, Amazing Facts, VOP Etc. We felt we could not go on with these materials in our home tempting us to return to the old and familiar and thus be a confusion in our minds. I feel as KME does where she states "I need support at times when I have been overloaded with SDA baggage, I can become eaten up with the negativity of something I'm trying to leave behind if I dwell on it too much." I still have that reaction at times too and I thank God we had the courage to get rid of those materials when we did. And regarding the CWB, I had a Clear Word, the first edition, given as a gift from my Henry but truthfully never really used it much, but it is used as a Bible as stated above in the churches on the East Coast also. That saying from Doug Batchler about being a Spiritual Jew had always frightened and intrigued me at the same time, I could not believe this one and I am so nieve. We have Sky Angel and I have to hurry by 3ABN and the Adventist programs, we have come too far to be thrown backwards now in temptation. But isn't it just like the Devil to throw those little darts at us when we least expect them, just when we sit back and say we have at last figured something out and then boom, Here He Comes Again!! I am in total agreement with Susan_2 about the negitivity that comes from speaking with an old aquitance of the SDA where we used to worship or the unexpected phone call in the middle of a lovely day or your bible study that ultimately goes something like this; (caller)"you're going to be left out of going to heaven" but, I am here to help you.....that ends with 'Just come back for a Sabbath Blessing and fellowship dinner'. And Judas did what? for what amt.? No Way. Trying to stay on the straight and narrow, God Bless All. Deb  P.S. Do any of you know of Former Adventists living within an hours drive of Philly, Pa. or half hour of Wilmington, DE. We would be delighted to unite with them in fellowship and start a group as many of you have been able to do on the West Coast. Thanks, we will pray that someone out there does, we need that. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 606 Registered: 11-2002 |
I live in California. As far as I know there is no Formers group in my area and that is o.k. by me as I think if I personally had a lot of personal interaction with people who came from my same background, and really we all were raised basically the same, I think it would tend to get me down. I sort-of think the Lutherans have the handle on GRACE. And, I never get tired of hearing about grace. If I recall correctly the SDA's teach that grace leads us to become SDA. Then after the person is SDA grace helps the person become perfect. It's totally not the way Grace is taught by Lutherans and frankly the Lutheran interpertation of understanding Grace makes more sense and seems much more Bibically gounded. | ||
| Kme Registered user Username: Kme Post Number: 60 Registered: 7-2000 |
Deb, I have Sky Angel too and there is a lot of great programming on there that you probably weren't even aware of before you gave up 3ABN am I correct? Maybe you were more open-minded. But it kills me when I hear people talk about only watching 3ABN, like they will be poisioned with hearing the Gospel preached by another denomination. I personally got Sky Angel after I had already started the process of leaving the SDA church. So immediately I could feast on the Gospel of Jesus, but as I said before, out of curiousity (because I had never watched 3ABN) I would watch it. I found Doug Bachelor to be the most dangerously damaging to me. During his Net seminars or whatever they call them, my eyes were just so clearly opened to the crafty work of the way and content of his messages combined with the timing of the slides. It was nausiating really. All I could think of was the poor unsuspecting non-adventist, Christian or non-Christian audience. They had to be motivated to be baptized from fear! It's really disgusting. And the thing is, when I was an SDA I didn't even notice this stuff, because the assumption of truth was already in my mind and all I was needing to know was prophecy! After all, that's what we were watching for wasn't it? In fear. Praise God for his merciful love and deliverance through our Savior Jesus Christ instead of ANY church. Have a blessed day in the Lord. Kme P.S. I'm still waiting for my Proclamation magazine! And I agree with you Deb it is like the Christmas catalogue was as a child! Thank you so much, those of you who give of yourselves to that work. | ||
| Jlondon81 Registered user Username: Jlondon81 Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2004 |
Kme, Fear is the Adventist's best tactic. Now of course, other churches will do the exact same thing. When I was caught up in word-faith theology as a teenager, I was encouraged to use that tactic on my friends at school (you can guess how that turned out; thankfully they forgave me). When I was first introduced to SDA, I was told everything about what I already knew was wrong and needed to be refreshed. An Adventist's gospel message begins with eschatology, not Jesus Christ, Sabbath-keeping, not grace. I attended my sister-in-law's graduation at Pacific Union College this past weekend, and looking at the wall of SDA materials outside the sanctuary, you'll find no material on the gospel, just scare tactics to get you to join SDA because "you are wrong, we are right." And Doug Bachelor is just downright annoying. Joel PS - I talk about having anew identity so much I got one... on here at least =). | ||
| Kme Registered user Username: Kme Post Number: 63 Registered: 7-2000 |
Joel, Welcome. What you said "An Adventist's gospel message begins with eschatology,not Jesus Christ, Sabbath keeping, not grace" is so true. The way you worded that was kind of a light-bulb for me. Thanks. Kme | ||
| Debandhenry Registered user Username: Debandhenry Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2004 |
Good evening KME and all, We too did not get Sky Angel untill we were in the mental process of leaving the church and it is so refreshing to find Christ centered programing. (most of the time) I myself am a 6th generation "American Lutheran", in the old country just an Old Luther. My great grandparents held services in their living room untill they grew and the first church was built. (But then they had 12 children of their own so it did not take long...) But, after my divorce, I was not in church for over 8 years untill I met Henry and he was born/raised Catholic. We decided to be married in a Lutheran church. Henry's job transfered us to another state & that's when we went to a Kenny Cox Revelation seminar and ya'll know the rest of this story. We are leaning on the Missouri Synod, esp. after going to that site (can't remember the url) and filling out that questionaire and my #1 came up Lutheran-Missouri Synod, then the AOG, Lutheran-Evang. and #19.........SDA! I was really not surprised. You would think someone with my back ground of Lutheranism would have been more careful. I look at it in this light now...I know where NOT TO LOOK. Fathers Day we are going to the local Lutheran Church and we are truely excited. And, I do pray for the SDA members who do have many of the same issues but are still there, and sadly out of fear as has been said over and over again. I have often wondered why a church would use Scare Tactics rather than the love they talk about to bring others to Jesus, but then the Devil is a master at deception as we all know all too well. I am currently reading Dales book CULTIC DOCTRINE OF 7 DAY ADVENTISTS & learning a lot. I am curious, do any of you listen to Joyce Meyer? I like her, only she is also a Word Faith person and I have only read bad things about this movement not her but am shy about listening to her now. Are they really what the book Kingdom of the Cults says? In Christs Service, Deb :>) | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 354 Registered: 7-2003 |
Deb, Joyce makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up with some of her subtle heresies, but others here seem to enjoy her. You mentioned scare tactics...the SDA in my life says teaching hell is a scare tactic to make people want to become Christian and God wants them to make a free choice. I always thought that was a strange commentary given their teaching on worshipping God on Sunday. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 326 Registered: 1-2003 |
Personally, when I listen to her, the overall feeling I get from her is arrogance. I do have a friend that really likes her... | ||
| Kme Registered user Username: Kme Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2000 |
2-4 years ago I really liked Joyce Meyer. But a few times recently I've tried to watch her and I'm just turned off. I don't know why and thought it was just me. Now I wonder if there is some other reason. I used to feel very encouraged by her and thought she was very Spirit led. But I don't know, the few times I've tried I just can't get into her at all. After a few minutes I turn the channel. What is this about her being a Word Faith person? I have never heard of that. Is that in the new Cultic Doctrine book? I've wondered what denomination Joyce was affiliated with. Not all are approving of women ministers so that rules out Baptist for one. Also, Deb what is that website that you took a quiz on? I had heard of that a while ago. I would like to take it. |
