| Author | Message | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 345 Registered: 7-2003 |
Over the last week or so I have been contemplating at great length the difficulty some groups and individuals have with mixing law and grace for salvation. Speakeasy, your posts have been especially on my mind. Something you said, made me think of a quote from James White: "To assert that the sayings of the Son and His apostles are the commandments of the Father, is as wide from the truth as the old trinitarian absurdity that Jesus Christ is the very and eternal God." (White, James, ëëThe Faith of Jesus,íí Review & Herald, August 5, 1852) As I contemplated this statement I also began to muse upon the axiom that most heresies begin with a misunderstanding of the nature of God. This is certainly true with Galationism. The early Adventists mixed the works of the law along with the grace for their salvation partly because they had a faulty view of God and particularly of the Son. Becasue many of the SDA founders were aggressively anti-trinitarian they tended towards arian views of Christ. This low view of Christ caused them to diminish not only His teachings and those of His apostles, but His very sacrifice and atonement. A failure to rely on Christ alone, a distrust of much of the NT material, and a partial view of atonement naturally led to works for righteousness and salvation. Something very similar could be said of Jehovah's Witnesses and perhaps of a few of the less orthodox Messianic groups. Our view of Jesus Christ is at the very rock bottom foundation of our faith, hope, and security. Our answer to who He really is, is anything but trivial. Not only will our answer determine what we believe and how we live, but it is vital to our salvation and eternal security as well. So I ask you, Speakeasy (in gentleness and in love): Is Yeshua of Nazareth YWVW, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? If you are unsure of the answer, then little else about the Christian faith will make much sense. | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 571 Registered: 7-2000 |
Chris, What a sad quote of James White! I agree with you very much! Who is Jesus?... And what exactly did He do for us? How we answer shows the basis of all our theology...all our hope, security, peace. I like the words of an old song, "Live out Thy life within me, Oh Jesus, King of Kings, Be Thou Thyself the Answer To all my questionings." grace always, cindy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 324 Registered: 12-2003 |
Chris, what a very good question and observations. The identity of Jesus is indeed at the core of salvation. If He is not The God of Abraham, the New Testament cannot be reliable. Colleen | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 81 Registered: 9-2002 |
Then Chris at this time little else of Christianity makes much since. I can not explain what the trinity is, I can not explain or understand every thing that proves or disproves the teaching of the trinity. I just don't know about all of that. At this time I can not worry about this at this moment. All I need at this time is to make sure I am saved and not being mis-lead by good meaning people about things. This is all I can handle as of now. I can not take on something else like that and handle it in my mind. I don't won't to make my life more complicated. I Only want to make sure that I am saved. Then I will build on that and go to the next stage. I hope you understand? I am not arguing or saying one way or another on this topic. But as of now I want to concentrate on "AM I SAVED?" speakeasy | ||
| Ladylittle Registered user Username: Ladylittle Post Number: 15 Registered: 4-2004 |
The question is not what the trinity is. The question is whether Jesus is God, whether His death is sufficient to save us, and whether His word is to be trusted. We are promised that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins". Do you believe him? Have you asked Him? Then it's done. I wonder if you're looking for someone to tell you just what to do, to have already made certain that 'such and such' is right. No human can do that for another. I pray that God give you His wisdom and guidance. He loves you and wants you to rest in Him. He has promised that "he that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." Mary | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 82 Registered: 9-2002 |
Ladylittle: Yes Jesus's death can save any one. And yes ALL of his word not just a fraction of the Old Testament and ALL of the New Testament. ALL of the Bible is to be trusted. We are promised "if we confess our sins He will forgive our sins" But we are also told that the transgression of the Law is Sin. So when we sin we break the law. Paul says "Before the law came I was happy but when the law came I was an unhappy man" You see being a christian is a very VERY hard thing to be. At least for me it has I never know were I stand with God. I am talking about my view. Not yours or anyone else's. I am I guess looking for a person to tell me such and such is right. Because when I start to use parts of the bible all I get is "NO NO That part is not for me and you today, You can NOT use that" But the same people and I see it on this web site will use verses from an old Testament passage that is loaded with the Law incripted in it. I am told I can not use the passage but someone else can. I am not rebuttling everything you are saying. But If I can not use parts of the bible because it is NOT for christians today. Then there has got to be a list that tells you and me what is NOT for you and me and what IS for you and me. This is just logical. speakeasy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 327 Registered: 12-2003 |
Speakeasy, ALL of the Bible is for Christians. Since the New Testament fulfills the Old, however, we must read the Old Testament through a New Testament understanding, NOT the other way around. Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament. He explains and embodies everything the Old Testament promised and foretold about salvation. Further, the question of who Jesus really is, is central to whether or not you can know you are saved. By all means, read the Bible, but do so inductively. Use the marginal references and a concordance, and read other texts throughout the Bible that discuss the same subjects, asking God to teach you the truth. Colleen | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 85 Registered: 9-2002 |
Colleen you are probably correct. In the New Testament. Were does God call himself the Messiah? I have used a concordance for a few years and it really helpes me. But like I said in an earlyer post. I can not even get the basic's of the law down and then I am told I have to understand some other stuff to even know if I am saved. I may not be saved. I don't know. I know by what the bible says about being saved. But in man's eye I am probably not saved. But the bible says at least to me "I call on the Name of the Lord and confess he is Lord and I am saved" All the other stuff like knowing and understanding the Trinity I can't explain that. I know I am rambling and maybe upsetting people and I am trying not to do that. But like I said before. Being a christian is a very VERY hard thing to do. It is Not just excepting Jesus as you saviour. To me it is not that easy. Being a Christian is very complicated and indepth and at least to me at this time in my life Very dificult to even understand the basic's. Now this may all change. And I hope it does. So please hang in there with me. I really need to start over from scratch study what the bible is. Is it true and can we trust all of it. Were did it come from,Do we have acurate translation's of the bible. Then Like someone said earlyer study the covenant's and why they were givin and who and for how long. and this does not even touch topics like salvation, Observing christian holidays ,Pagan origins etc This will take years to do. I maybe dead or God may come before I even make my mind up on a lot of things. How did you guys weed out all of these and other topics in your life time. To even make the move is all of this stuff true or untrue? Please don't say it will come in time or I don't worry about all these things or the Holy Spirit will help you on these things. So far in 5 years this has not happened yet. But it may happen and I want it to happen. thanks speakeasy | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 87 Registered: 9-2002 |
I guess I am kind of understanding why some parts of the bible is not for us today. Or even directed at us at all. When you do see "For the Nation of Israel you shall......" I am really trying to understand and comprehend all that everybody is saying. And it does make since a little why when God would talk to "For you the Nation of Israel shall....."Does not mean a gentile or any other person outside the Jewish person. But How do I know a verse from the Old Testament is okay to use. When at the time the writter of Jeremiah or Isiah or Malachi was writting these books was directed by God and was writting these books while the Law was still in full force and the writter was obeying the law. How do we (You and I) how do we pick and chose verses or even lines from those writtings as for you and me? I have even seen pastors use Old Testament verses and SKIP over the words Commandments and Laws. Just to use the verse. Again I kind of understand a little. But still to me there is a bunch of the bible then would be faults to obey. Am I wrong? speakeasy | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 332 Registered: 1-2003 |
Speakeasy...the good part is...you don't have to understand everything...you stated in your post what you must understand to be saved..."All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved." PERIOD. No if's, and's or but's. All the rest is non-salvational stuff that people want to make into salvational stuff such as Old Covenant Law keeping, diet, etc. To the human mind, salvation is so illogical and so simple it cannot be true...it is by faith we grasp hold...and even our faith comes from God...so you have already been given a gift. REST now Speakeasy. Read Hebrews 4...probably one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented chapters in the Bible. I read it for years and never grasped it until I one day noticed one word I had never read before...the GOSPEL. If you believe the Gospel...the very minute you do believe the Gospel...you enter (present tense) into the Sabbath-like rest promised to the people of God. Jesus is our Sabbath rest...when you believe the Gospel you can rest in the one who said, "Come to me all who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest for your souls." He also said "Take my yoke upon you and learn of ME." What is the yoke that no one could bear? Peter tells us in Acts that it was trying to keep the Law. When Jesus takes that heavy yoke off our backs and we accept his yoke (he was perfect in the Law for us) we have a light yoke indeed. So don't fret so much...Jesus said not to let your heart be troubled and do not be afraid. If you believe the Gospel, that is all you need and now your commission is to spread that Gospel, that is what is pleasing to God. Not going back and trying to keep the Law on your own because you think Jesus was a human too and HE did it...now he will empower me...no. Spread the Good news of the kingdom of God, we don't preach Law we preach Christ and Him crucified. Preaching Law ended with John the Baptist for the Law and the Prophets testified until him...John started preaching the Gospel and people starting pressing into the kingdom. Take heart Speakeasy, you are love and you are totally reconciled to the Father. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 328 Registered: 12-2003 |
Speakeasy, let me see if I can give you an example of what I mean when I say that the Old Testament must be read through a New Testament understanding, not the other way around. Pheeki is right; ALL you need to do to be saved is to accept Jesus as your Savior who died for your sins, and rest in Him. That's all. All the rest of the Bible demonstrates how to grow as one of God's children and how to honor God once you are His child. Now for my examples. You are familiar with the Old Testament Jewish ceremonial feasts. Passover, for example, began with the children of Israel on the night they were to leave Egypt. They were to kill a lamb or a kid and sprinkle its blood over their doors and on the door posts. The death angel passing over would see the blood and spare the lives of teh first-born in every Jewish house with the blood on the doors. If any Egyptians were in the houses with the blood-covered Israelites, they, too would be spared. Israel celebrated Passover every year after that as a memorial to the night the death angel passed over. Every year they would kill a passover lamb as a symbol of the blood of the lamb that saved them from otherwise certain death. Today, however, we do not need to celebrate Passover because Jesus WAS the Passover Lamb. All along, that Passover lamb--even in Egypt on the terrible night of the first Passover--represented the coming Messiah. For centuries Passover was a shadow of Christ. Now that Christ has come, has shed His Passover blood and risen from death, we do not need to celebrate the shadow any longer. We celebrate Him by accepting his Passover blood to cover us, and by living in our new identities as born-again Christ-followers who are experiencing the reality of what Passover symbolized. We LIVE Passover instead of celebrating it. We are made new by Christ's blood of the covenant. Secondly, the Day of Atonement was a yearly observance designed to represent the nation of Israel being cleansed from its sins by presenting the blood of bulls and goats to Yaweh inside the Holy of Holies. Only the High Priest could present this blood, and the Day of Atonement was the only day of the year even he could enter the Holy of Holies. The presence of God would have killed him had he entered the Holy of Holies without the shed blood which "covered" Israel's sins. Yet the book of Hebrews explains that the blood of the bulls and goats could never cleanse Israel of its sins. If it could have, they wouldn't have had to observe the Day of Atonement every single year. Clearly Israel's sinful state was essentially unchanged; they had to present sacrificial blood to God every year in order to be assured that their sins were forgiven. Although the blood reassured them they were forgiven, still their continuing sinfulness kept causing them to have to sacrifice again and again. Again, the book of Hebrews clarifies that the Day of Atonement was a shadow of Christ's atonement on the cross. Unlike the animals' blood on the Day of Atonement, Jesus's blood was shed one time, and it had the power to permanently break the reign of sin in human's lives. Hebrews 10 calls Jesus' body the curtain that was torn--the curtain separating sinful humanity from the glory and holiness of God--making it possible for each of us to come directly into God's presence when we accept the power of Jesus' one-time sacrifice. We don't have to keep offering sacrifices in order to be right with God; when we accept Jesus' shed blood as the atonment for our sins, we are reunited with God and our true selves--the part of us that is born again by the indwelling of the the Holy Spirit--are forever free from the curse of sin. Our bodies are still mortal (they won't be redeemed until the resurrection) but Romans 6 and 7 make it clear that the sinful drives of the flesh are not our identity when we accept Jesus and are born again. Our new birth gives us our new identity: child of God. We no longer belong to sin; even our mortal bodies will receive their promised redemption at the resurrection. Consequently, we no longer observe the Day of Atonement. Instead, we accept Jesus, and we live in perpetual atonement. Jesus, our true high priest who was represented by the high priests of Israel, stands before the Father always, interceding for us without pause. The Israelite pirests went before the Father one day a year. Now we have Jesus standing always before the Father for us, presenting his blood shed once for all eternity as the covering for our sins. The Old Testament day of atonement was a shadow pointing toward the promised Redeemer, Jesus Christ our Lord. We no longer observe the shadow; we have the REAL THINGS! Jesus is alive, and He is our sacrificial lamb, bull, and goat; He is the high priest who intercedes with the Father for us; He is the curtain that was torn, allowing us to be in the very presence of God (who now indwells us!). Jesus fulfilled every part of the ceremonial system of Israel. Consider also the Feast of Pentecost. It always fell 50 days after Passover. Jesus died on Passover; He was the Passover Lamb. Fifty days after his death, the disciples were waiting in Jerusalem as Jesus had intructed them to do just before his ascension. On the Day of Pentecost, something singular happened: the Holy Spirit descended on those disciples, and they were filled with power. Tongues of fire rested on their heads, and they spoke in languages they had never learned. Thousands of Jews from neighboring countries were in Jerusalem, having come for Passover and having stayed on for the Feast of Pentecost. Peter spoke those thousands of Jews that day, and they all understood him in their own languages. 3,000 Jews were converted to Jesus Christ that day. The Church was born that day. The Holy Spirit came, just as Jesus promised it would, and for the first time in human history, God INDWELT humanity. His Spirit was not just WITH people, He was INSIDE them. The Day of Pentecost was the birth of the church. (see Acts 2). Shortly after, the Holy Spirit came to the Samaritans, and the church grew beyond the Jews into Samaria. (see Acts 8) Shortly after that, Peter received a vision calling him to preach to Cornelius, a Roman centurion. Cornelius also received a vision telling him Peter was coming. When Peter arrived, he preached to Cornelius and his household and they also received the Holy Spirit. Peter then baptized them into Christ. Pentecost was foreshadowed by Israel's yearly Feast of Pentecost. God asked them to celebrate this feast not because they understood all that it foreshadowed, but because He wanted them to be prepared to understand the significance of Pentecost when it finally was fulfilled that day in Jerusalem 50 days after Jesus' death. Every feast of Israel forewshadowed a significant event in the process of salvation and the formation of the church. We no longer have to celebrate the Feast of Pentecost because we HAVE the Holy Spirit ourselves! We're not just looking forward to Him being in us; because of Jesus' shed blood, He is now here! Instead of celebrating the Feast of Pentecost, we are to live as part of the body of Christ, adopted sons and daughters of God, filled with the Spirit and embracing our new identities as born-again Christ-followers. The same phenomenon is true for the Sabbath. God gave Israel the Sabbath to cause them to physically anticipate the miracle of eternal rest in Christ's finished work. He even deonstrated what that Sabbath rest would look like by calling the day after creation Sabbath. The seventh day had no beginning and no end; Adam and Eve were one with God; they walked and talked with him with no shame or guilt between them. That Sabbath rest was broken when they sinned, and God finally restored awareness of His promise of that rest to Israel when he gave them the Sabbath command. Jesus, however, told the Pharisees (when they accused him of breaking the Sabbath with his disciples by picking grain) that "one greater than the temple is here." By saying this, he was claiming to be greater than the temple--the center of Israel's culture and religious life. He was greater than the temple in which resided the presence of God and the law. He was saying, in effect, "In Me is the presence of God. In fact, I am greater than the temple which houses the presence of God; I AM God. Further, the law is in me." (see Matthew 12) Jesus also told people, "Come unto me...and I will give you rest." (see Matthew 11:28) No longer do we have to observe the Sabbath day; Jesus IS the Sabbath! Just as He fulfills every symbol in Israel's temple system, so he fulfills the Sabbath. So, Speakeasy, the above examples try to explain why we must read the Old Testament through the filter of the New Testament. The New Testament has fulfilled the Old. If we read the Old Testament without understanding that it pointed toward Jesus, we will be totally confused. Jesus explains, defines, and gives meaning to the Old Testament. We are living in a new age: the age of the risen Christ, the age of the church. We are no longer in the age of Israel. Israelites were saved by faith in God's promises. We also are saved by faith in God's promises. The difference between them and us is that we have the historic Jesus to observe; they only the the promise of Him. Since we have Him, and since we have the indwelling Holy Spirit, our worship of Him will look different than did Israel's. We can honor the Lamb Who has been slain, the Son of God who took on human flesh, who died the death of our atonement, who rose from death, who stands before the Father interceding for us. We no longer need the Old testament symbols in our worship experience. Instead, we have the REAL THING! The Old Testament is important, because it clearly shows us that Jesus is the promised Messiah. He fulfilled every ceremony; He fulfilled every prophecy. But we Have Jesus Himself! Praise God! Colleen | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 609 Registered: 7-2000 |
Speakeasy....there is NO LIST. There is no list because living with the indwelling Holy Spirit moves us to live on a deeper level than keeping a list of rules. We are instead living by the spirit behind the rules. Not committing murder is not enough, we also have to love people. That was not written on the tablets of stone, it goes beyond the tablets to touch on the heart attitudes. We as Christians are not living by lawkeeping because it is impossible. You can not keep the law! For the law to be "kept", it must be done perfectly. If you slip in just one area then you are guilty of all of them. You are a slave to them. You are condemned by them. You know, I notice you keep saying that breaking the law is sin, but according to James 4:17 it is more than law breaking "to him who knows to do good, and doesn't do it, it is sin." The previous verses here are talking about being humble, not judging a brother, asking God for our needs, not being in love with the world, submiting to God, all things that were not addressed in the 10. So sin is not just not doing bad things, it is also not doing good things. Living by the Spirit means our minds are set on the Spirit. Think of a man who loves to spend his time drinking in bars. He falls in love with a woman who doesn't go to bars and doesn't drink. She doesn't want to go to the bar with him. She wants to go other places. The man's heart desire changes. Read that again:...his heart desire changes. He wants to spend time with the woman, so he is no longer seen at the bar. It isn't that he thinks to himself, "I musn't go there she doesn't like it, I must fight off this desire I feel to go to the bar" and so he struggles against going to the bar. Rather it is that his thinking is on the woman instead of the bar, "she likes to go for a long walk on the beach, so that's where I want to go today too." His effort is not spent in the not doing, but his desire is in spending time with the woman. As our pastor says often, the actions don't come from our do, it's because of our who. Do you realize that the New Testment compares lawkeeping to dragging around a dead body that is chained to you? Can someone refresh my memory on the location of the passage? If you are dragging around a dead body, then it is little wonder that you are so troubled! We are told, "if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord' and believe in your heart that God rasised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Romans 10:9,10 Your actions here are in believing and confessing, not law keeping. "And the testimony is this: God has given us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." Speakeasy, according to these verses, it is NOT a very hard thing to be a Christian. You either are one or you aren't. You asked where does it say in the NT that God is the Messiah. We do have Jesus saying, "I and my Father are One." And "in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." We have Jesus declaring, "before Abraham was, I AM" and "he is before all things, and in Him all things consist". | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 346 Registered: 7-2003 |
Speakeasy, my apologies for not getting back to this thread in a more timely fashion. I'm building a new PC and I've been swapping parts back and forth so I neither computer on mys desk has really been in good working order the last couple of days. The new one seems to be up and running now.... Just to clarify. I'm not suggesting that you need to understand how a single Being can eternally exist in three personally distinct ways. That goes beyond all our understanding or experience. I'm asking something much more basic. Is Yeshu YHVH? The answer to this question is very important indeed. Would it be helpful for me to provide scripture showing Yeshua as YHVH? Chris | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 90 Registered: 9-2002 |
Chris you can give me verses on what you want to give. I can not reply on this subject on an open forum. I have done this in church and it does not work. But please send me your verses. Can you focus on Old Testament ONLY verses. For this study. I have all the New Testament verses and study's that I need. sorry I can not reply any faster. I do not have a computer. I have no money to get one. So I have one a computer that I can get on before and after work. At a friends house. Thanks speakeasy | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 91 Registered: 9-2002 |
Lydell At least for me not you. Being a Christian is VERY hard to do. VERY HARD! This has just been my own walk. not your's or anyone else's. speakeasy | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 92 Registered: 9-2002 |
also. Were would you start when you are witnessing to a person about salvation? Would you go straight to the "Gospel" and then when other questions come up handle them one by one. Or would you start other places then go to the "Gospel"? Guys I am saved but I am trying to understand all the other stuff that people say you need to believe or except to be saved. And I am finding out that some of these other things are doctrines that have very little to do for salvation. And more to do with church doctrines of prodestant churchs that these core beliefes have gottin into the mix for "Idenitfying a true believer" Again you guys are great. Thanks for all you help and concern and input. Also Collenn I never seen you before I got for the first time a magazine that had your picture in it. It is nice to have a face with the name. Thanks for all of your hard work on what you do and stand for. And thanks for the years that you have talked with me. Your vies have been a rock for me. And many times I do not agree with them at first but as you study them they do make since. thanks speakeasy | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 629 Registered: 11-2002 |
Speekeasy, You said you don't have a computer and don't have the funds to buy one. I don't have a computer either. I have what's called Webtv. It's a box that hooks up to the tv and then also hooks up to the phone jack. A remote keyboard comes with it and all it does is get the Internet and six e-mail addresses. They cost $99.00 at BestBuy or Circut City and one of those stores almost always will be offering either a $50.00 rebate or the first several months of service free. The service is $24.00 per month and has to be paid electronically. I went to the market and bought one of those prepaid Mastercards and then every month I just go put money on the card to pay the bill. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 159 Registered: 3-2004 |
Speakeasy, At the church I am attending I am taking a Bible class about becoming a fully engaged Christian. We have not come to the lesson yet about how to share Christ, but I have looked over the lesson. What it has you do is write out your testimony. The first thing done is what my life was like before I met Christ, then How I realized I needed Christ, then how I committed my life to Christ and lastly the difference it has made in my life. In the class I just finished we learned that we cannot talk about what we have not experienced. So, when people ask me, I just tell them what God has done for me and that I am still learning. If they ask something I do not know or am not sure about I will tell them I will look up the answer and get back to them. The important thing I have learned is that the gospel is Jesus Christ. Don't know if this will help you, but I continue praying for you. God is an awesome God. Diana | ||
| Sharon2 Registered user Username: Sharon2 Post Number: 38 Registered: 6-2004 |
Sharing Jesus is best done in a personal relationship;therefore, it is usually best to find the common understandings. If I am talking to a Jewish person, I begin with the feasts and the Old Testament. If I am speaking to a Muslim, I might begin with God's love for Hagar and Ishmael. For others, it may be the Christmas story or the movie the Passion, or my own experience. That starting point is usually Spirit led, butit always ends with the blood of Jesus being all sufficient for salvation. Sharon | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 93 Registered: 9-2002 |
I had some time at lunch. So I went to the library and am using there computer. If I was talking To a Jewish person. I have tried to talk to them about the Feast's and Festaival's. Were I would start is to ask them questions about. Is a Person following Christ. Following a foriegn God that is not of Abraham ,Isacc and Jacob. I would ask what does it take to be saved or attain Salvation. My very close Jewish friends. Do not even admit that they need salvation. I have tryed to talk to my Jewish friends about The Shabbat's and feast's and Festival's and I get Know were. Because I am told I serve a "Pagan God" so How would I know anything about such a matter. Now some of my Jewish friends I can talk to them about the Feasts and so forth. But I have not yet found that it clicks with them doing this that the Feast's and Festivals are pointing to a Messiah at all. The best response I have ever had on a few Jewish people with help from a friend from menorah ministries. A friend from that ministry got me to talk to them about what Isaiah was talking about. Would my Jewish friend except that Isaiah was talking about a Messiah that was sufering and that Messiah that Isaiah was talking about would take away your sins as the book says. Then you can if they will say yes to this instead of saying it is talking about the Nation of Israel. Then at least in my case my friend did and I was able to at least show him that it was talking about a Messiah and that Messiah has allready came. And the Christian's says it is Yeshua,the Christ. This is just my 2 cents worth. speakeasy |
