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Religious LibertyFlyinglady20 7-19-04  7:04 pm
EternityHallanvaara11 7-09-04  1:00 am
Archive through July 09, 2004Mary_jane20 7-09-04  11:36 am
Archive through July 15, 2004Dd20 7-15-04  5:52 am
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Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 245
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 8:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dd, I did not hear or read about James talking to EGW after he died until I read it in on one of the web sites linked to this one or one or the others written my former SDAs.
I, also, went to SDA schools all my life and never saw it until recently.
Diana
Dd
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Post Number: 20
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's a no brainer why it would not be revealed to main-stream SDA's (that EGW stated she had heard from her dead husband)! I would like to know more about this before I start saying to0 much to anyone. It's way out there and it's almost unbelievable that she would even admit it. Anyone having more info - please share with me. Thanks!
Susan_2
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sabra, Did you attend Monterey Bay Academy? Your story sounds like what went on there. I only went there one year. For the most part I enjoyed it and had a good time. Some kids were very sad and miserable and messed up a lot. One of my favorite stories is the time there was Communion in the big chapel one Friday night. The preacher stood up front and went on and on about how Communion should not be partaken of unless the individual is sincere and really has it in his heart to do this. Then he said anyone who didn't want to take part in Communion could feel free to either go back to the dorms or go down to the beach right then. Only two kids decided to take the pastor up on this offer. Me and my friend, Rita. We got up and headed down to the beach. I mean it, we were conned! We just wanted an hour to walk on the beach alone together and enjoy its beauty. Immediatelly three MBA arthority figures were trailing us. We were hounded about how come we didn't want to take Commnion. Really nosy questions. We were told it was abbominable to not take Communion when it was offered. We were told our parents were spending a lot of money so we could get a Christian education and we owed it to them to take part in the Christian aspect offered at the school. Finily me and Rita got tired of the harrassment and we went back to the dorm. My son ended up at this same school and all through public school he had never been in trouble. To help more with the expenses he went right after 8th grade to work there in the dairy over the summer before school started. After he'd been there four months he got kicked out. He said he didn't do what they said he did and we believe him. The story is this-he apparently knew something shady going on with some of the authorities there and he threatened to tell. So before my son had the opportunity to tell they kicked him out on made up allegations. It worked out though because he went back to his school with the kids he grew up with and never again was there any alledged trouble from him. In fact, we sit around and joke about how much more clean cut as a general rule the kids at the public school were than they were at MBA. Did you see in the newspaper about a year ago some men teachers from Monterey Bay Academy are being sued for sexually molesting several boys years ago? Then it was in the paper that one of the teachers being sued already has committed sucide. The wife of the dead teacher said the charges against her husband have nothing to do with him killing himself but that he was suffering depression and from personal problems that caused him to take the path of sucide. I will say though I was always happy at MBA while I was at work in the laundry. We had a wonderful assistant dorn marm and she was nice. I once caught my roommate and her girlfriend in bed under the sheets together. She told me it was o.k. because it is not adultry and that her mother and her mothers best friend are lovers and that it is o.k. because the sin is getting pregnant without being married and when two people of the same sex are together there can be no pregnancy from the union so it is o.k. I went nuts and told the nice assistant dorm marm and she gave me a different roommate because I told her I would blab it all over or go tell my parents and they'd let me come home or I could get a roommate with scruples and so I got a roommate I really got along well with who was super lovely and clean-cut and came from a normal family. The first time I'd ever seen an ouija board was at MBA. In fact, never with my public school friends was I exposed to one. When I tell SDA's this I get the line that satan already has the public school kids so he doesn't have to work so hard at getting them into his camp. It is so convoluted!
Flyinglady
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Post Number: 246
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I did not go to a boarding school. I want to a day academy, but while there I learned the latest dance steps.
There was a choir director with whom I went to academy who had a boys choir after academy, who molested the boys in the choir. I do not know what became of him.
Dd, go to the sites linked to this that are about EGW and you will find it. That is how I found it.
Diana
Colleentinker
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Post Number: 411
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dd, have you read Sydney Cleveland's book, "White-Out"? It's really good--one of the best exposes of EGW I've read. It's available through Dale Ratzlaff's website at www.ratzlaf.com. Another good book is D.M. Canright's book about EGW also available through Dale's website. (Canright, you might remember, was EGW's contemporary who the SDAs say left Adventism and recanted on his deathbed. Actually, he did not recant, and he wrote two books--one available as an online book and one through Dale--that tell his story about working with the Whites.) Amazing stuff. Also, check out the links. There's a lot about EGW we weren't taught in school...

Colleen
Dennis
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Post Number: 117
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 7:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen,

For the sake of accuracy, Pastor Sydney Cleveland's book is entitled, "White Washed." The book, "White Out," is authored by Dirk Anderson. I have both books in my library. The titles sound similar, and they can easily be confused.

Dennis Fischer
Sabra
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Post Number: 135
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan,

I went to Mt.Pisgah for boarding school. My mom remarried and I really hated my house and begged to go. It was good that I got out of my house, lots there I am not going to get into.

As far as dorm parents, ha! Our dean was a messed up, depressed whacked out woman that I think hated kids. I don't remember her ever doing anything except checking for fingernail polish and lights out.

She got a boyfriend my senior year and stayed gone all the time, when she came in one day with a hickey they fired her soon after.

The next one we got was a wild girl that was always having the coolest kids over and she was just too much really.

I snuck out with two other girls one night, we jumped off of the second story ledge and we met some guys and went riding around drinking all night. They saw us leave and were waiting on us when we got back at 4 am. We convinced them we just went to Denny's to eat and they suspended us for 2 weeks, or 3, I don't remember. They almost didn't let us graduate. I don't really know how they didn't know we were drunk.

Well, isn't that just a great place for kids?

I can't imagine being without my kids, I would be a basket case. Crazy, isn't it? One thing that still upsets me is all the hours we worked and I never got any of the money. I even had to pay for my own college after working since 14 everyday and 12 hour weekends in nursing homes and sewing factories.

The day I graduated I moved into a trailer park with a friend and then married 3 months later. And my parents LET me do this stuff, can you imagine? I'm a parent now and I would lock them in the closet first.

LOL
Hallanvaara
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Post Number: 56
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry. I forgot to give you a link to that article. It¥s written by Dirk Anderson and here is link:

http://www.truthorfables.com/EGW_Talking_to_the_Dead_James.htm

I was amazed when I realized that EGW did just opposite God has instructed us to do.

Deut 18:11 - Deut 18:11 (NIV) 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

God¥s messenger? Jeah, right....

Tuija

Colleentinker
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Post Number: 415
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Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oops--you're right, Dennis! Sydney Cleveland's "White Washed" is the book I had in mind!

Colleen
Dd
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Post Number: 24
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Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 1:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Colleen. I got online last night and ordered 4 books from Dale's site (I'm doing all kinds of "new" exciting computer things I've never done before - I've decided it took me so long to check out this forum because of my computer ignorance!). I am happy for the info you passed along and looking forward to some good reading. I told G about the incredible story of EGW and dead James...his mouth hung open! Totally unbelievable!
Dennis
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Post Number: 118
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Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sabra,

When I was a minister in the Carolina Conference, we used to go to Mt. Pisgah Academy for campmeeting every year. We preachers had to come one week early to set up camp. We were not used to hard, manual labor. Our handling those heavy, wood floor planks for tents was a most difficult and sweat-inducing task.

During campmeeting week, one of my duties was to direct incoming traffic. We never ceased to be amazed at the general poor health of Seventh-day Adventists. It seemed like every other car wanted to drive right up to the auditorium due to serious medical problems(smile). Obviously, these "commandment-keepers" could lie real good. We usually accommodated their requests and let them unload their "sick" and/or "lame" passengers. However, we instructed them to park where we provided space after unloading their passengers. The drivers always assured us that they would park where we instructed them after unloading their passengers. However, very frequently, they would block traffic by just parking anywhere close to the auditorium anyway.

Regrettably, I even made a financial contribution to Mt. Pisgah Academy during a high-pressure fundraising dinner in Charlotte. I did not have the option of not attending. After all, we eagerly wanted to impress each other at the dinner. Praise God, those stressful days are history.

Resting in Him,

Dennis J. Fischer
Susan_2
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Post Number: 702
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Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Souqel, California campmeeting starts this evening. Fortunatelly for the disabled they can stay at Monterey Bay Academy during campmeeting. I understand the campmeeting has a shuttle service between MBA and campmeeting.
I never much liked campmeeting as a kid. Family would actually check on me to make sure I wasn't ditching the meetings. But what I didn't like the most was knowing that Santa Cruz was just several miles up the road and wordly people were that close to me and they were having fun and I was stuck having to go to meetings. So close and yet so far. I just wanted to have some fun. One would think out of ten days one day could have been set aside to go to the beach and have fun but it was made very clear that campmeeting was for going to meetings, not having fun. I honestly was brought up believing if something gave a person pleasure then it was a sin. It's like living in a state of pennance.
Susan_2
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Post Number: 703
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Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 6:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Souqel, California campmeeting starts this evening. Fortunatelly for the disabled they can stay at Monterey Bay Academy during campmeeting. I understand the campmeeting has a shuttle service between MBA and campmeeting.
I never much liked campmeeting as a kid. Family would actually check on me to make sure I wasn't ditching the meetings. But what I didn't like the most was knowing that Santa Cruz was just several miles up the road and wordly people were that close to me and they were having fun and I was stuck having to go to meetings. So close and yet so far. I just wanted to have some fun. One would think out of ten days one day could have been set aside to go to the beach and have fun but it was made very clear that campmeeting was for going to meetings, not having fun. I honestly was brought up believing if something gave a person pleasure then it was a sin. It's like living in a state of pennance.
Dennis
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Post Number: 119
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 6:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dd,

A "must visit" website is at www.ellenwhite.org. The story about Ellen White talking with her dead husband is there as well. Obviously, she had major problems in distinguishing reality from dreams. It is most amazing that she actually wrote about it as a part of her "inspired" writings.

Dennis J. Fischer
Thomas1
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Post Number: 124
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Save you the trouble, it's a bit complicated to find. From ellenwhite.org, THE LETTER. The website has "editrial" comments in brackets throughout the letter.


"A few days since I was pleading with the Lord for light in regard to my duty. [Notice Ellen White specifically stated she was asking God for direction and information.] In the night I dreamed I was in the carriage, driving, sitting at the right hand. [Ellen White believed this dream came from God and contained the very information she had just asked God to reveal to her ñ as we shall see.] Father was in the carriage, seated at my left hand. He was very pale, but calm and composed. [Ellen White generally used the term "Father" when speaking about her husband James White. James had died on August 6, 1881 ñ just five weeks before Ellen White wrote this letter to her son on September 12, 1881]. ëWhy, Father,í I exclaimed, ëI am so happy to have you by my side once more! I have felt that half of me was gone. Father, I saw you die; I saw you buried. Has the Lord pitied me and let you come back to me again, and we work together as we used to?í
"He looked very sad. He said, ëThe Lord knows what is best for you and for me. [Notice in this "divinely inspired" dream, Ellen White is having a conversation with her dead husband ñ something the Lord said in His Word is "detestable" and worthy of being "stoned to death." Worse, dead James White pretends to speak for the Lord and advises Ellen about her duty!] My work was very dear to me. We have made a mistake. We have responded to urgent invitations of our brethren to attend important meetings. We had not the heart to refuse. These meetings have worn us both more than we were aware. Our good brethren were gratified, but they did not realize that in these meetings we took upon us greater burdens than at our age we could safely carry. They will never know the result of this long-continued strain upon us.

"ëGod would have had them bear the burdens we have carried for years. Our nervous energies have been continuously taxed, and then our brethren misjudging our motives and not realizing our burdens have weakened the action of the heart. I have made mistakes, the greatest of which was in allowing my sympathies for the people of God to lead me to take work upon me which others should have borne. Now, Ellen, calls will be made as they have been, desiring you to attend important meetings, as has been the case in the past. [Notice that here dead James White predicts the future for his wife, Ellen, and advises her on what she should do ñ remember, this advice is coming from a dead man in her dream!] But lay this matter before God and make no response to the most earnest invitations. Your life hangs as it were upon a thread. You must have quiet rest, freedom from all excitement and from all disagreeable cares. We might have done a great deal for years with our pens, on subjects the people need that we have had the light upon and can present before them, which others do not have. Thus you can work when your strength returns, as it will, and you can do far more with your pen than with your voice.í

"He looked at me appealingly and said, ëYou will not neglect these cautions, will you, Ellen? Our people will never know under what infirmities we have labored to serve them because our lives were interwoven with the progress of the work, but God knows it all. I regret that I have felt so deeply and labored unreasonably in emergencies, regardless of the laws of life and health. The Lord did not require us to carry so heavy burdens and many of our brethren so few. [Dead James now gives Ellen a wonderful opportunity to chastise the "brethren" for shirking their duties and thereby working him to death. Remember, all this comes to her in one of her "divinely-inspired" dreams as she communicates with her dead husband! Read on as dead James continues advising Ellen.] We ought to have gone to the Pacific Coast before, and devoted our time and energies to writing. Will you do this now? Will you, as your strength returns, take your pen and write out these things we have so long anticipated, and make haste slowly? There is important matter which the people need. Make this your first business. You will have to speak some to the people, but shun the responsibilities which have borne us down.í [Dead Jamesí advice is very clear, telling his wife what to do as well as what not to do.]

"íWell,í said I, ëJames, you are always to stay with me now and we will work together.í [Here Ellen makes a pact with dead James ñ he will always stay with her, and they will work together! This a pact with a dead man! But it gets worse. Read on.]

"Said he, ëI stayed in Battle Creek too long. I ought to have gone to California more than one year ago. But I wanted to help the work and institutions at Battle Creek. I have made a mistake. Your heart is tender. You will be inclined to make the same mistakes I have made. Your life can be of use to the cause of God. Oh, those precious subjects the Lord would have had me bring before the people, precious jewels of light!í

"I awoke. But this dream seemed so real. Now you can see and understand WHY I FEEL NO DUTY TO GO TO BATTLE CREEK for the purpose of shouldering the responsibilities in General Conference. I have NO DUTY to stand in General Conference. THE LORD FORBIDS ME. That is enough."
Letter 17, 1881, pages 2-4 (written to W. C. White, September 12, 1881), the White Estate, Washington, D.C., March 25, 1980. (You may verify this letter in Arthur Whiteís book Ellen G. White, The Retirement Years, pages 161-162, or go to the Ellen White Estate web site and search for any key phrase in the letter.)
Susan_2
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have prevously read that and each time read it I get shivvers up and down my spine and I get red with animosity towards the SDA denomination. Think about it! They will tell a person on and on that mainstream Christianity cannot possibly be right because of its understanding on the state of the dead. I have actually read SDA auhors and heard SDA pastors state that mainstream Christians understanding of the state of the dead will lead a person into spititualism because of their intense greif and longing to be with their newly beloved departed. Yet,I have been to nuerous Christian funerals and have never heard this even be hinted at. The SDA religion is based upon non-Christian practices and principles. Something rooted in deception can only prosper if that deception is continued. I have never asked an SDA his/her opinion of such crap as I just read above but I do wonder how the person would justfy it. It's like EGW was conjouring up the spook of James Whte and that's really spooky stuff. And, I wasn't allowed to watch Bewitched when I was a kid because of the obivious theme of witch in it and everyone knew it was total fantisy. I remember years ago listening in to a discussion with a mob of SDA's about if it is o.k. or not o.k. at Disneyland to go ino The Haunted Mansion. I remember thinking, ou are such morons! This is Diasneyland, the ghoasts and witches in The Haunted Mansion are o more real than are the birds in The Tiki Room".
Dd
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Post Number: 26
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thomas,
Thanks for your time and labor to share that with me. Your thoughtfulness is greatly appreciated. It is unbelievable to read. I read a book on EGW about 7 years ago when I was first realizing the real truth of Grace (I think by Walter Rae?). That was an eye opener. I know I just skimmed through it quickly because it was a borrowed book, maybe I missed some of this info. Thanks, again.!

Dennis,
I will attempt to go to the EGW website. Since I am exceptionally low on computer skills, do not hold your breath when you read this! :-) Thanks for sharing with me!
Loneviking
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amazing! I had never heard of this letter before. It is so ironic that she gives instruction to folks that she herself doesn't follow. She didn't do it with her diet, she didn't do it with her writings about the dead. And yet, SDA's will just shrug and ignore this.

The other night, I was over at the local SDA church helping my wife get potluck on. A nice guy that I often talk too asked me if I had ever read 'Desire of Ages' and picked up 'The Passion of Christ'. He said that 'The Passion' really is selected chapters from the 'Desire of Ages'.

I said 'but isn't it a bit deceitful to rename the book and put a cover on it that looks as if it is part of the materials for 'The Passion' film?

He replied, 'well, yeah, but they do that with lots of books, it's been done with Great Controversy'.

I said 'but that doesn't make it right, does it? Didn't Amazing Facts say that the film had all sorts of Catholic additions to it---and now they want to put out a book that looks like its' part of the film?'

He just shrugged, put the book down and walked away. It amazes me that the deceit within the church just doesn't seem to bother them....
Colleentinker
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This whole subject reminds me of a profound one-liner our younger son said one day during the years Richard and I were studying and discovering the great deception. We were in the car, and nine-year-old Nathanael had been listening silently as Richard and I discussed EGW. Suddenly he spoke up and said, "Ellen White--a false prophet, but still a prophet."

That about sums it up for me. She most assuredly did have visions and dreams, but they were NOT from God.

Colleen
Susan_2
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a deception that I always thought was sort-of funny. The SDA fake ham is called Wham. That one always really got under my skin, if you know what I mean.
Flyinglady
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Post Number: 252
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I grew up calling all vegetarian "meat" fake steak. I thought it was funny.
Colleen, I love the comment your son made "Ellen white -- a false prophet, but still a prophet"
Out of the mouths of babes!!!!
I am just so thankful, God started taking me out of all that deception a long time ago. He is an awesome God.
Diana
Flyinglady
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Post Number: 253
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dd,
Dennisrainwater posted on the forum, in the first topic "EGW talks to dead James" where the comment can be found. I searched all over for it and found where it used to be.
Diana

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