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Dd
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Username: Dd

Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello FAF - I am a first time "poster"! I have enjoyed your postings - you are all very much a blessing in my spiritual growth. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, insights, questions, answers, encouragement....

Since my cradle roll years I have known John 3:16. Of course, a good little SDA understanding of the verse was "whosoever believes in Saturday as Sabbath" will have eternal life. Then it changed, as I was falling away from Adventism, to "whosoever BELIEVES will have eternal life" (I am saved by believing, by trusting in Christ - my salvation is simply a gift to be received, not earned). Within the last few years a new meaning has jumped out at me. It is the use of the present tense verb. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believes HAS eternal life." Eternal life has a present aspect. It is a quality of life, a personal satisfaction and a sense of fulfillment in my life here and NOW. In John 6 this is emphasized. Only those who appropriate His promises to their personal life (eat His flesh and drink His blood) receive eternal life and experience what it is to really live by the strength of the life of God - today.

Were we not taught, all through SDA schools, that everyday in Heaven will be Sabbath? Isn't that our eternity? Everyday in Sabbath rest! H-m-m-m! Is the SDA church the only church that skips over the present tense verb? If eternity is a way of life today (living with and appreciating life with the Fruits of the Spirit) then it seems it takes away "the truths" of a religion's doctrines.
Cindy
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Username: Cindy

Post Number: 586
Registered: 7-2000
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 6:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Dd, It's good to have you join our forum! Thanks for your words reminding us that, in believing in Jesus, eternity is a way of life today!!
grace always,
cindy
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 357
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, Dd! I'm happy to see you here! Thank you for your really good insights into John 3:16. In fact, they remind me of a related insight Steve Pitcher had (he posts here occasionally and wrote in the last Proclamation!) re: John 3:18. (I believe he said he got this insight from a speaker he was listening to...)

At any rate, if those wo believe already begin to experience heaven (as Dd said above: fruit of the Spirit, living with the joy of Jesus, etc.), then those who do not believe and are condemned already must similarly be beginning to experience hell at the present time, i.e. separation from God, meaninglessness, emptiness, etc.

Glad you're here!

Colleen
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 373
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Were we not taught, all through SDA schools, that everyday in Heaven will be Sabbath?"

I'm a little confused. B (my son's SDA father) says that "we" will keep the "7th day" Sabbath in heaven. When I asked him how days were counted since there was no night, he didn' t know, but pointed to some text in Isaiah that talks about keeping the Sabbath and he presumed it was in eternity. Is there two teachings?
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 361
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

EGW officially said we would keep Sabbath in heaven. I also was taught that bit of nonsense. Furthermore, our trip to heaven will take seven days, Ellen says, and we will celebrate Sabbath on the way.

I can't speak for Dd, but I suspect there may be some Sabbath School teachers out there who do teach unofficial variants of the Sabbath. There have been many "definitions" of Adventist belief, unofficially, for decades.

As I used to say on Saturday but now say on Tuesday with new meaning, "Happy Sabbath!"

Colleen
Jeannette
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Username: Jeannette

Post Number: 29
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What does the verse in Isaiah mean where it says that every sabbath and new moon every flesh will come and worship God? I have been telling my mom that we are not bound by the sabbath etc. and she told me about that verse and honestly I did not know what to say. I am currently reading "Sabbath in Christ" but I didn't see where that verse was explained. Thanks for your help.
Jeannette
Chris
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 355
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 7:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it's extremely problematic for SDAs to use that passage in Isaiah to support Sabbath keeping for Christians. If you read the whole passage (starting in 65:17) you'll see references to infants being born, people dying at age 100, Levitical priest, grain offerings, gentiles being brought to Jerusalem by horse, camel, mule, chariot, and litter, monthly Sabbaths (New Moon Sabbaths), and weekly Sabbaths. If you ask the average SDA if they think babies will be born in Heaven, if people will die at 100, if there will be a revival of the levitical priesthood, if we will present grain offerings, if we will need to ride in wagons, etc. etc. they will say, "No, that's figurative language". And they would be right. Clearly Old Covenant terminology is being used in order to describe New Covenant concepts. In other words, language that the Isaiah's recipients would readily grasp is being used in a figurative sense to convey realities beyond our understanding. This is true of the mention of the monthly and weekly sabbaths as well. The reality is that we will live in constant worship and communion and will also likely come together at regular intervals for corporate worship, but I doubt very much if new moons and weeks will have the same meaning in the New Heavens and New Earth that they do now.

The final nail in the coffin to the assertion that this verse teaches Sabbath keeping to Christians is to ask if this verse also teaches that we should keep the New Moon Sabbaths. If the SDA says "no" then ask them why they think this verse teaches weekly Sabbath observance and not monthly when both are mentioned. When they can't answer you, point them back to the figurative nature of the entire passage. Case closed.

Chris
Cindy
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Username: Cindy

Post Number: 588
Registered: 7-2000
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, an excellent case presentation!

I've had to respond to this argument quite often; it is one of Adventisms' real "proof texts" for the continual & eternal nature of "Sabbath-keeping". Adventists just never seem to be aware of the whole context of that passage in Isaiah, just the "one Sabbath to another".

And Colleen, I remember that EGW "prophecy" about "keeping the Sabbath" on our 7 day trip to heaven! What kind of activity (or lack thereof) could that possibly consist of!!?

grace always,
cindy
Dd
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Username: Dd

Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 9:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cindy,
Your 7 day trip to Heaven is exactly what I remember being taught. SDA adults thought they were pumping us kids up trying to make it sound fun! I remember thinking 7 days of Sabbath! What will we do? Sit around and watch people nap. I won't be able to ride my bike, swim, play games, read....it was horrifying. Not until I realized the joy of living my life with the peace and comfort of Jesus did Heaven have any appeal for me.

Colleen,
I really had never thought about the reverse of eternity. It is a very provoking twist. You are right, of course, and it makes perfect sense. Putting your belief of salvation in something other than Christ is a meaningless, unfulfilled life - hell here in the present tense. Thanks for sharing your insight.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 202
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Dd, I hope you will contribute and learn from all these people. They are a God send to me.
Yes, I learned in SDA schools that we would keep Sabbath in heaven and that it would take 7 days to get there and we would celebrate Sabbath on our way. It is surprising the things I remember when it is triggered by a comment.
It makes so much more sense to rest in Jesus every day. So Colleen and all the rest of you, Happy Sabbath.
Diana
Hallanvaara
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Username: Hallanvaara

Post Number: 47
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 1:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One very reasonable explanation I¥ve read to that Isaiah 65-66 was that it was a prophecy to jewish people if they accept their Messiah, Jesus Christ. Jews and Jerusalem would then be the center of the whole world and they have their God living among them and all the blessings will flow upon them.

Praise God for His Son!

Tuija

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