| Author | Message | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 53 Registered: 5-2004 |
The more I study Adventism, the more I am convinced that it isn't just mildly off-track, but actually dangerous. I know I have mentioned this before, but it has really been on my heart, so I'll share again, please bear with me. My husbands entire extended family is SDA. His parents are SDA teachers, his aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents etc. are all very historic and active SDAs. My quandary is: what is our responsibility as far as sharing our faith and what we know about the fallacies of Adventism? They know that we do not attend SDA churches, but they don't ask us about any of it. (Their family discusses NOTHING openly.) I'd love to share with them what we believe, but hesitate to do so unless they express interest. I don't want to push it on them, but I do want them to understand. I am praying especially hard about it right now because his parents are going to be coming in about 2 weeks to stay for a week or so. Any words of advice would be appreciated. I have a lot of literature such as Dale Ratzlaff's books, and the "Adventism, the Spirit behind the Church" video, that is out in plain sight. My husband's first thought was to put it away so they wouldn't be uncomfortable. But his family sees no problem with peppering us with SDA books and magazines, so I don't see why we should hide it. Maybe they will even take a peek at it out of curiosity when we aren't looking. (I hope!) Anyway, your prayers and thoughts are appreciated. We want to follow God's will in this! -tanya- (reprinted from another spot) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 173 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tanya, from my short experience with family who were raised SDA and no longer practice it, all I can say is PRAY a lot. Leave your Christian literature out where it normally is kept. And Pray some more. God will open the door when he sees fit to do so. I will be praying for you. If you have morning and evening worship, continue to have it. Ask them if they would like to join you. If you ask God to bless your food, continue that. If they are there on Sunday morning and you are going to worship, ask them if they would like to go with you. The same for the Wednesday evening worship. If they do not ask any questions, leave it at that. God is working on them where we cannot see it. Be loving and kind, but do not let them step on you. Again, I am praying for you and your husband. Diana | ||
| Jeannette Registered user Username: Jeannette Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2003 |
Tanya: I am in the same dilemma. I tried to share with my sister and an aunt but they wouldn't even read anything that doesn't come from the sda's. My husband tried to talk with one of his sisters about it, she listens but doesn't say anything. None of them will ask questions, I guess they are afraid of being led astray. I pray that the Holy Spirit will lead them and that their eyes will see the truth. Jeannette | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 636 Registered: 11-2002 |
First, the video. Please, tell me about it on this discussion. Now, about the family situtation. In my situtation I oly share my understanding about Bible, Jesus, The Law, food, everything else that SDA's have a belief on if I'm directly asked. They pretty much have stopped asking me because I absoutely and totally refuse to let myself get trapped in their petty munipulating of what I'm saying. As someone else mentioned on another thread if she asks her husband if the book is on the couch he'll say "no" knowing fullwell it is really on the ottoman. Well, my loved ones are exactially the same. Honestly, I do believe we on this chat forum really all do have the same relatives. I used to leave my Christian books and literature out but now I just keep it in my bedroom because I figure it's not necessary to add fuel to the fire. I have mostly decided the best witness I can give of my Christian conviction is that actions speek louder than words and I try to live a life openly and plainly Christian. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 337 Registered: 1-2003 |
My SDA mother-in-law came over yesterday and we were discussing all the problems SDA churches have been facing in the last few years. I was telling her some of the problems at the local SDA that caused me and my husband to quit going there. Then I said, "Why is it there is an SDA church on every corner? I mean, why can't they worship together? You've got some liberals over here and conservatives over here and then ultra conservatives here..." She said, "Well, it's like the Isrealites who didn't obey God...he scattered them...but it served a higher purpose because by scattering them the Gospel went out into all the world." Ok, here is the problem with that statement. The Isrealites didn't know the Gospel...they knew the Law and sought their own righteousness...and she is comparing the SDA to them...she is right, they are just like them and they don't know the Gospel either. She then went on to say..."Maybe they can spread the Gospel in the town 5 min. down the road from the other church". (Where the members split and formed their own church.) I am just amazed by her statement. What do you think? It also got me to thinking...do SDA believe the Sabbath is the Gospel? | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 187 Registered: 5-2002 |
SDA's believe the Gospel of Jesus' death for our sins, but they believe that Gospel is incomplete without the Sabbath "truth" and the other unique doctrines of the SDA church. Without those unique doctrines, the Gospel cannot be fully apprehended. In addition, SDA theology misapplies Christ's sacrifice. Instead of it being a full atonement for our sins - past, present, and future, the SDA position is that the atonement was in order to empower believers to keep the 10 commandments perfectly - just as Jesus did. SDA theology contains the true gospel, but it is a secondary consideration which ultimately becomes overshadowed by "another gospel" which is the core of their identity. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 344 Registered: 12-2003 |
You're right, Freeatlast--I would say SDA theology contains the "right words" about the gospel (and God can use those words to germinate seeds in searching hearts), but Adventists really don't believe the gospel IS what Christians believe it is. They believe the gospel includes, as Freeatlast said, the Sabbath, keeping the 10 perfectly, and health laws. Tanya, I really agree with the above advice from Diana and Jeannette. Your discussions of Adventism probably should come as an aoutgrowth of their openness or curiosity. By all means, however, be open about God's work in your life, his blessings, the wonder of experiencing the love of Jesus, your appreciation for Scripture--all those things that are fresh and new and vibrant in your experience. Sometimes those comments spark questions or reactions, and sometimes they don't. I wouldn't try to hide what I've become, if I were you. Pray to know what to say, and pray that God will prepare their hearts. Sometimes I pray that God will arrange circumstances so that everything that should be said, will be said, and that He will provide the opportunities and openness for conversations to happen. Pray for confidence and boldness and also for spiritual protection as you are in contact with family whose emotional and spiritual bonds with you and your husband are powerful and long-term. Pray that the Holy Spirit will strengthen you in your identity with Jesus, and that you will be able to function as God's children primarily, not primarily as the errant offspring of parents who do know how to push our buttons (as we also push our kids' buttons, I hate to admit!) With prayers for you and your husband, Colleen | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 54 Registered: 5-2004 |
Susan2 The video: "Seventh-Day Adventism: the Spirit Behind the Church" is a documentary video that explores the history and doctrines of the SDA church and how they have changed over the years. Severa former SDAs whose studies of the Bible led them out of the SDA church speak on the video. It is pretty interesting. Grace upon Grace Productions put it out. If you are interested in it, you can find it on the WWW.sdaoutreach.org site. (Dale Ratzlaff is involved with this site, I think). or email sda@sdaoutreach.com There are a bunch of other good materials on that site too. | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 55 Registered: 5-2004 |
Thanks for the words and the prayers. I have been so busy, that I feel scattered, and have resorted to writing out my prayers so that I can keep my mind in one place. I think Satan knows that my heart is for God, and for ministering to my friends, family, and community, and is throwing all sorts of obstacles in the way. I have been praying that God would use my life, our money, our time, our house, and everything we have and are for His purposes, and He is setting up some awesome opportunities for us to serve Him. -- But I think it is attracting the enemy to the area. There is definitely some spiritual warfare brewing around here. My Experiencing God study talks about how God speaks to us. It says that He is always at work around us,that He pursues a love relationship with us. He invites us into the work He is already doing, speaking to us through the Bible, prayer, church , and experiences. Then we are brought to a crisis of belief that requires faith and action, and that we must make major adjustments in our lives to join His Work. ~ This is where I am right now. I am adjusting my life continually to His will, and to serve Him, and I feel a lot of pressure. I feel like I asked for God to let me minister for Him, and then He gave me the opportunities, and I need to bee 100% ifocused on Him, or a little panic sets in. But i keep remembering that God works through our weaknesses. We are SUPPOSED to be in situations where things are impossible if we don't lean on Him! That is how He works. So I am trusting in Him to lead us in sharing with My husbands family. I trust in Him to lead me in dealing with my difficult mother. I am trusting in Him to lead me in the volunteer opportunities with the pregnancy center. I am trusting in Him to overcome my scattered brain, and my health problems, to keep me focused on Him. And I trust in Him to make me an ever-improving wife and mother to husband and kids. I trust in Him to increase my patience, and even give me a sense of peace in the craziness. I trust in Him to lead the home group that meets at our house. I trust in him to lead us in the adoption process. I trust in Him to help me be His servant, demonstrating His love for the world. And I trust that He can take my unworthy, selfish, slightly rickety, impatient, tired self, and work through me. Prayer! More prayer is needed if any of us are to minister to anyone in this world! My God direct our thoughts and steps this week, and make us ever focused on Him! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 639 Registered: 11-2002 |
Colleen, You mentioned the SDA health message. Their so-called "health message" is stupid. I frequently attend our communities VIP club. VIP stands for Vegetarian Inclined People. Once per month they have a social with a guest speaker and a potluck dinner. I also frequently attend the local SDA church which also has a potluck meal following the service. By far the more nutritious food is served at the VIP club. The VIP's make most their food from raw foods whereas the SDA's use a lot of the canned foods put out by Worthington Foods and Loma Linda Foods. At the VIP meetings nothing with sugar is served. The SDA's just load up on sugar. Fat, too. The VIP's are vegan and as such no eggs are in the foods. It's just better tasting and more nutritious what we get at the VIP meetings. I do believe the SDA church promotes their vegetarian line to their devotees so much so they can make oodles of more money off the members from puchasing their company goods. Also, when the SDA's come out with their studies comparing life expendency of SDA's to non-SDA's, I would like to know if the non-SDA's in the studies share similiar lifestyles and eating habits as with the SDA control groups. Like, do they pick non-SDA's who also don't smoke and non-SDA's who place an emphasis on exercise, low-fat diet, maybe even be vegetarian and possibly also are tea tottlers? I get a monthly magazine called The Lutheran. In each issue is a list of the Lutherans who had their birthdays the previous month and are now at least 100 years old. The list is quite lengthly each month. I just wonder about the studies methodology. Also, I have heard andread that abortions are done at SDA owned and operated hospitals and health facilities. As far as a health message goes I can't think of anything more unhealthy than abortion. It kills the kid and frequently leaves the woman an emotional wreck. But then, I think the SDA health message has never included mentl health as part of it's message. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 351 Registered: 12-2003 |
One Friday night few years ago a former Adventist physician in our group spoke up about the Adventist health studies and said that the SDA studies compare life expectancies of Adventists with the population in general. So, when the studies say that Adventists have a 7-10 year longer life expectancy, that is comparing to the population which includes smokers, drinkers, etc. He went on to say that if the Adventist life expectancies are compared to other Christiabns who do not smoke, abuse alcohol, or eat lots of red meat but eat white meat and fish, the life expectancies are similar. Again, statistics can be made to say whatever you want them to say if you don't use them scrupulously. Tanya, I completely understand what you are saying about trusting God as you ask Him to use you. You feelings of overwhelm and fragmenting are so famliar to me. I remember deciding, when I went to teaching full time and also was working on FAF, etc., that if Sabbath rest didn't work in my most frantic places , it wasn't real. I began to pray that God would multiply my time, help me to accomplish the things He wanted me to do, help me to let go of those things that weren't important, give me efficiency, and keep my heart at rest. God has been so faithful in answering those prayers. When He brings us work, he equips us with HIS strength and stamina. You're so right about the spiritual warfare at work as we surrender to Jesus. It's real, and its distracting, and it's unnerving. Praise, surrender, and trust and what God calls us to in times like these. With prayers for you, Colleen | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 372 Registered: 7-2003 |
You all have been listening in on my conversations (or were a couple of years ago). I challenged the studies B was always quoting when I heard that a study comparing mormons to SDAs (who also don't drink/smoke) were comparable. And there is a former SDA MD who had a "book" on the internet that says if the studies were controlled for smokers and drinkers, the study years would be the same. Of course, B said that was ridiculous. I also have seen the wonderfully "healthy" SDA potlucks. One table full of chips and pretzels, another with "veggie" hotdogs, white bread buns, fake hot chocolate and fake cider, and more chips. But they didn't eat meat.....so they're healthier. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 193 Registered: 3-2004 |
And do not forget all the desserts served, loaded with sugar!!! Diana | ||
| Hallanvaara Registered user Username: Hallanvaara Post Number: 43 Registered: 1-2004 |
And what is quite horrible, too, is that EGW included her health message in three angels messages! Nowadays any vegetarian or even reasonable person eats healthier than SDAs. And whatĄs quite funny is that SDAs use so much imitation food (fake coffee (made of grain), fake sausage, fake meat! (made of soy), fake chocolate...). They have to pretend to eat meat and drink coffee! EGW used health instructions of her time and they are obvious quite obsolete. But SDAs just stick in them. I claim that I live as a long as SDAs if it depends what I eat. I dumped white flour, almost all sugar, white rice, most fats (excluded fish oil and turnip rape oil), sausages and potatoe. But I think the most important issue of eating, no matter what ever you eat, is being reasonable. If you drink wine, coffee, candies, meat, fat...whatever too much you donĄt stay health. Leaving just meat, coffee and wine out doesnĄt make your life healthier and holy. Tuija | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 339 Registered: 1-2003 |
Don't forget hydrogentated foods such as margarine, etc. (Nearly all processed foods contain hydrogenation). Scary. When this was introduced in the 1950's they began to see a huge increase in heart disease over the next several years...why didn't Ellen warn us????!!!! | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2004 |
Boy, this really brings back some memories about those covered dish meals that we had once a month after service back in 1985. I recall the dessert table being almost as large as the actual meal settings. People really did gorge on cookies, cakes, pies and other sugar products and what an example they set for their kids. Many people (including the pastor and his family) were obese, yet they preached to everyone about eating healthy. I'll never forget when they had to call 911 one time because one member went into some type of diabetic downfall. One odd thing, if caffeine was not allowed in colas, coffee or tea, why was chocolate allowed in desserts? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 367 Registered: 12-2003 |
Pw, I think chocolate slipped in because science hadn't yet publicized its caffeine when EGW was ammassing her counsels. Perhaps chocolate wasn't "present truth" for Ellen, just as eating fish wasn't "present truth" for Jesus, according to Adventists I know. Perhaps we should add chocolate to the list of banned foods in the name of progressive revelation... | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 200 Registered: 3-2004 |
And Colleen, who would believe you??? Me thinks you would have to say you had a vision or a dream. Diana | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 374 Registered: 7-2003 |
It was purely ugly on my part, but one of B's friends who is quite vocal about vegetarianism, even cornering people at B's baby shower about giving up meat, is rather large. I told him one day if I had to look like her and be "healthy" or look like me (a size 6) to be unhealthy, I'd take being unhealthy any day. I didn't win any points with that one, but I sure felt better... :-). | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2004 |
There is still a debate over whether or not chocolate contains a large amount of caffeine, which is a big no-no according to their dietary restrictions. I wonder if there are any Adventists in Hershey, Pa.? :-) |
