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Hrobinsonw
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Username: Hrobinsonw

Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 7:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I read the Bible straight up and down. I cannot quote scripture for some reason. But I understand the basic grasp from my reading. I believe that alot of things are permissible through Christ. I believe that one shouldn't be bound to the sabbath, I also believe that what comes out of your body is unclean. Because I go to church on Sunday, and my liberal views on the sabbath, she has doubts. I feel that the sabbath can be everyday, or anyday, as long as you do it through Christ. She is really hurting me with all of this chatter. I want to be able to get her to read the Bible for herself and to stop listening to her family. But I don't really understand the Adventist faith. Please help me
Pheeki
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Username: Pheeki

Post Number: 340
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 7:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is something interesting...I don't know if this will help you but I am posting this for everyone. A friend on another forum pointed this text out. Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

The Gospel...rest...and the Law

Isaiah 28

9 "Who is it he is trying to teach?
To whom is he explaining his message?
To children weaned from their milk,
to those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is:
Do and do, do and do,
rule on rule, rule on rule;
a little here, a little there."

11 Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues
God will speak to this people,
12 to whom he said,
"This is the resting place, let the weary rest";
and, "This is the place of repose"-
but they would not listen.
13 So then, the word of the LORD to them will become:
Do and do, do and do,
rule on rule, rule on rule;
a little here, a little there-
so that they will go and fall backward,
be injured and snared and captured.

14 Therefore hear the word of the LORD , you scoffers
who rule this people in Jerusalem.
15 You boast, "We have entered into a covenant with death,
with the grave we have made an agreement.
When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by,
it cannot touch us,
for we have made a lie our refuge
and falsehood our hiding place."

16 So this is what the Sovereign LORD says:

"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who trusts will never be dismayed.

Isn't that interesting!!! It really goes along with Hebrews 3 and 4. The COI were offered rest but they didn't believe so the Lord let them work their way line by line, do and do and do, rule on rule on rule (think SDA here or any legalist organization) because he knew they would finally give up and say "I can't do it! Give me rest." then the chapter ties it all in with Jesus, the Corner stone. This is so awesome! Then read Hebrews 4 which says "Now those who believe (the Gospel-Jesus) enter (present tense) into God's rest!"

Awesome.

Ok, HRobinsonw...now to tackle your problem. Does she want you to become SDA? Here is the problem, most SDA think that by exposing you (a person who thinks they are a Christian but according to SDA are in Babylon) to the "truth" of the Sabbath, etc. you will plainly see how wrong you have been and join them. When this doesn't happen (ususally because the Holy Spirit isn't letting you fall into error and you are a little more grounded than they think) it usually causes anger and frustration on the part of the SDA. Plus...most SDA ministers won't marry you unless you convert, so she may be thinking, "there goes my SDA church wedding..." and this will disappoint my parent's in many ways...you will be "unequally yoked", this is a term SDA use for marrying a non-SDA and it couldn't be more appropriate because one of you is yoked to the Law (a burden not even the forefathers could bear) and worshipping "shadows" and one of you is yoked to Christ (whose yoke is easy and His burden is light and in whom you find rest). This can cause a lot of stress if you do marry because she will insist her kids be raised SDA and if you object she may be advised to leave you because to not be in the "truth" (and let's define SDA "truth" vs. "real truth"...SDA "truth"='s the Sabbath and Ellen White..."real truth" ='s Jesus)is to lose your salvation. I was recently told by my SDA mother-in-law that to lose the Sabbath was to lose everything. Can you say brainwashed? Yes, I was. But God liberated me and took the veil from my heart.

So good luck...how long have you been dating her?
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki

Post Number: 341
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 7:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is something interesting...I don't know if this will help you but I am posting this for everyone. A friend on another forum pointed this text out. Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

The Gospel...rest...and the Law

Isaiah 28

9 "Who is it he is trying to teach?
To whom is he explaining his message?
To children weaned from their milk,
to those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is:
Do and do, do and do,
rule on rule, rule on rule;
a little here, a little there."

11 Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues
God will speak to this people,
12 to whom he said,
"This is the resting place, let the weary rest";
and, "This is the place of repose"-
but they would not listen.
13 So then, the word of the LORD to them will become:
Do and do, do and do,
rule on rule, rule on rule;
a little here, a little there-
so that they will go and fall backward,
be injured and snared and captured.

14 Therefore hear the word of the LORD , you scoffers
who rule this people in Jerusalem.
15 You boast, "We have entered into a covenant with death,
with the grave we have made an agreement.
When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by,
it cannot touch us,
for we have made a lie our refuge
and falsehood our hiding place."

16 So this is what the Sovereign LORD says:

"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who trusts will never be dismayed.

Isn't that interesting!!! It really goes along with Hebrews 3 and 4. The COI were offered rest but they didn't believe so the Lord let them work their way line by line, do and do and do, rule on rule on rule (think SDA here or any legalist organization) because he knew they would finally give up and say "I can't do it! Give me rest." then the chapter ties it all in with Jesus, the Corner stone. This is so awesome! Then read Hebrews 4 which says "Now those who believe (the Gospel-Jesus) enter (present tense) into God's rest!"

Awesome.

Ok, HRobinsonw...now to tackle your problem. Does she want you to become SDA? Here is the problem, most SDA think that by exposing you (a person who thinks they are a Christian but according to SDA are in Babylon) to the "truth" of the Sabbath, etc. you will plainly see how wrong you have been and join them. When this doesn't happen (ususally because the Holy Spirit isn't letting you fall into error and you are a little more grounded than they think) it usually causes anger and frustration on the part of the SDA. Plus...most SDA ministers won't marry you unless you convert, so she may be thinking, "there goes my SDA church wedding..." and this will disappoint my parent's in many ways...you will be "unequally yoked", this is a term SDA use for marrying a non-SDA and it couldn't be more appropriate because one of you is yoked to the Law (a burden not even the forefathers could bear) and worshipping "shadows" and one of you is yoked to Christ (whose yoke is easy and His burden is light and in whom you find rest).

This can cause a lot of stress if you do marry because she will insist her kids be raised SDA and if you object she may be advised to leave you because to not be in the "truth" (and let's define SDA "truth" vs. "real truth"...SDA "truth"='s the Sabbath and Ellen White..."real truth" ='s Jesus)is to lose your salvation. I was recently told by my SDA mother-in-law that to lose the Sabbath was to lose everything. Can you say brainwashed? Yes, I was. But God liberated me and took the veil from my heart.

So good luck...how long have you been dating her?
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 203
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 7:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Read the stories of the former Adventists that are on this forum. Then go to the links on this forum and read what the Adventist church believes. The Adventist church has different doctrines and extra Biblical teachings and it has a very strong hold on the members. It would take to long for me to summarize everything as I am new out of Adventism. The links are more knowledgable than I am at this time.
Pray while you are reading everything and ask God to lead you and show you what you should do.
When you are finished reading everything, you will have a better idea of what Adventists believe and can decide what you want to do.
I honestly want to tell you to run from her as fast as you can. But I think you should know from what you are running and if you want to run.
Pray a lot. Pray and pray and pray.
God Bless You in your reading and may He teach you what you need to know.
Diana
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 204
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 8:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pheeki is correct in what she said about trying to influence you to be an SDA, about the pastor not marrying you and about the children being raised SDA. Everything she said is correct.
My ex became SDA to marry me and when we married he dropped the facade. I was furious and we did not have a happy marriage. We did not divorce right away because SDAs do not divorce, at least at that time.
I am no longer SDA and am in the process of writing him a letter to apologize for what I put him through.
May God lead you as you go through this situation.
Diana
Dd
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Username: Dd

Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hrobinsonw,
Oh, my heart aches for you! I heard the same message all through my youth. It is such a sad concept. Marry an SDA - it doesn't matter how they treat others, communicate, deal with stress, handle conflict...just make sure they know "truth". Thankfully, the SDA boy I married is a good man, husband and father. It had to be a blessing from God because I was only looking for was a "good" SDA!

SDA's take verses such as Duet. 7:3 that say, "Do not intermarry" to mean do not intermarry SDA with any other religion or thought. They then take verse 4 to say that when SDA's do intermarry with other religions the non-SDA spouse will turn the SDA away from ME, which in thier minds ME means SDA "truths"!

The love story of Isaac and Rebekah (recorded in Genesis 24) is a special story that gives us a wonderful example of how we should choose our life partners today. Abraham sent his trusted servant out to find his son a wife. His number one concern was that the servant only find a girl who believed in God. Remember, the law had not been given at this time - the only "law" that Abraham lived under was to love His Lord and faithfully follow God's directions. Abraham did not want Isaac to be "unequally yoked" or to "intermarry" with someone who did not live with this same love for God that he had instilled in his son!

I do encourage you, Hronbinsonw, to look at such verses as 2Cor. 6:14-16 for yourself. Do not let anyone lead you to doubt that you are a believer. Acts 2:21 is very blunt - EVERYONE who calls on the name of the Lord WILL BE SAVED!! That means you! You are a believer so I encourage you to not be yoked together with an unbeliever. Does your finance believe that the purpose of the Bible is to lead us to faith in Jesus Christ? The religious people of Jesus' day studied diligently, comparing Scripture with Scripture. Yet they missed the point of the Scriptures because they did not see that they were written about Jesus Christ. They did not find Jesus and therefore their lives were unchanged. Everything in the Bible is written to lead us to Jesus and teach us about Him.

If this is what she believes, and nothing more, than you are both "equally yoked". If she is able to withstand the pressures and guilt from family and loved ones and if she can read verses such as Rom 10:9; Eph. 2:8,9; I John 5:13 without attaching any further "truths" to them then you are "equally yoked".

Proverbs 1:7 tells us that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Ephesians 5:17 warns us to not be folish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. God will reveal His ways to us personally as we humbly and sincerely read His Word and follow the Bible's priniciples.

Best wishes and know that I am praying for you and your finance as you make some very difficult and life changing decisions.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 372
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hrobinsonw, Welcome to the forum. You've come to a place where we can truly understand what you're experiencing.

I have to say that I agree with everyone who's posted above. You truly cannot marry an Adventist if you are a born-again Christian and expect your children to be raised without struggle and the spiritual bondage of Adventism affecting them. Love, unfortunately, is not enough to make a marriage work well when the partners are entrenched in opposing spiritual beliefs. Even though you love each other, your struggles will be huge, and you will both feel betrayed. It is one thing when two Adventists marry, and one then leaves. In such a case, the spouses must be committed to God enough that they will allow the Holy Spirit to heal and grow their marriage.

If you are not married, however, and your fiancee is entrenched in Adventism, you will have grave problems. We have had people on this forum who have shared their heartbreak over this very issue. In most cases, the Adventist expresses the "right words" that indicate the Sabbath isn't for salvation, they don't read Ellen White, etc. Yet when marriage comes into focus--and especially when children become involved--the Adventist suddenly insists that the family keep Sabbath, etc.

Truly, I believe most Adventists do not understand why they are so emotional, even irrational about their conviction that their family must practice Adentism. I've come to believe it's because there is a spirit of Adventism, and that spirit holds Adventists in bondage until they are able to renounce it and ask the Holy Spirit to fill that place in their hearts.

Read the stories on this site, and follow the links on the home page to other sites which offer great materials. Dale Ratzlaff's books, The Cultic Doctrine of Seventh day ADventists and The Sabbath in Christ are very helpful. Mark Martin at SDAoutreach.org has some wonderful tapes.

Pray for discernment and wisdom and protection.

With prayers for you and your fiancee,

Colleen
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 663
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome, HRobinsnow. I hope you have come to the rght place so we on this chat line can help you out emotionally with what you are facing. Is she a real stickler for the SDA rules? Like, no movies in theatres, no bowling, nothing fun unless it's on Saturday night at the local SDA schools gym? Or, is she one of the kind that being SDA only means going to church on Saturday mornings, not having pork in the house and other than those two things acts like any other person on the block? What I mean is how deep is her conviction to Adventism? BTW, my son got married in the local SDA church two years ago. During the ring ceremony the SDA minister made a point of telling everyone that it was the first ever ring ceremny done in that church. He married a Catholic. Their little girl (he became a daddy with the marriage) now attends the local SDA school. I recently asked my little granddaughter to tell me about school that day. She was in kindergarten then. She'll be starting first grade next month. She went on to tell me the life story about Ellen White. PLEASE, think these things though before making a life changing decision. I know we all like to think that love conquers all but sometimes even though the love is strong the other frustrations can be strong, too as well as discouraging. I'll for sure keep you situtation in my prayers. Try telling her that you will attend the SDA services on Saturday mornings with her and then you would like for her to attend church with you where you like to go on Sunday mornings. I think you can gleen a lot about someone by putting this deal before them.
Hrobinsonw
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Username: Hrobinsonw

Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have attended SDA services on Saturdays, and she wants to go to church with me. The problem really isn't her. Her father (SDA minister) eats pork sometimes, even drinks from time to time. Her mother is the issue. Your second choice was right on. She goes to movies, her father takes her bowling, she loves to roller skate, she even used to go to the night club on Friday nights when I first met her. You were correct, the only thing that she wants is to go to Church on Saturday, and raise her children with those beliefs.

And don't even tell me about the adventist schools. She told me that dinosaurs came from men having sex with animals. That is what she was educated to believe. And she wonders why she isn't good at mathematics
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 208
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hrobinsonw,
She is like I used to be. I used to say I could never go to a church on Sunday, even when I was going dancing Friday nights. SDAs are taught that going to church on Sunday is the mark of the beast. That is SDA teaching only. The beast is the Catholic Church, according to SDAs. This is very strong stuff, as their eternal life depends on it.
Unless she really wants to know what the Bible really teaches, I would be very cautious. Could you live with that if you and she got married.
Knowing what I know now, I would turn and run. But that is up to you. You could try as Susan suggested, but having been through a similar experience with my ex, I would not do it again.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Diana
Hrobinsonw
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Username: Hrobinsonw

Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She is curious but afraid to say. She doesn't read plain and simple. I need a set aside way to discredit the Adventist faith before her eyes. It needs to be systematic. If she was a child of her uncle, then I would turn and run. But she is weak in the faith eventhough she was raised in it. She cannot even tell me why she is Advenist except for the fact that she like being Adventist. My hope is to present her with what you all teach me. My father always said that an ungodly man turns away from truth. If she then turns away, then she has made her choice between Christ and SDA. Then I will run.
Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 63
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hrobinsonw,
Hi, I hear you! I an not SDA myself but married a man who was 3rd generation historic, diehard conservative SDA. We argued about it for years before marriage.
And he was still SDA when we married. Now, seven years later, he is the only one in his family who is not. (And I am the "bad girly" who they think drug him away for "the true faith". But that is another issue entirely!)

I know it seems like proving Adventism wrong is the only way to get through to her. I tried this route. And the defensiveness that it brought about has had lasting effects, even to the point that we are still have to tread very softly when we study the bible together. It burned some of our communication, and we are just now trying to some of that vulnerability and trust in the spiritual areas of our life back.
I'll tell you what we did that worked, you can take what you need and leave the rest! (continued on new post.)
Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 64
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

(continued)
Like I say, we argued back and forth for years about religion. the main problem was that he was talking theology, while I was talking about having a relationship with CHrist. I didn't realize that although he was raised "Christian" and knew the bible, especially the Old Testament, pretty well, he had never become a born-again CHristian. He hadn't ever really accepted that Christ was his personal saviour, and that he had assurance of salvation, and a God that wanted a personla relationship with Him.

So the way he started his journey out of Adventism was not by addressing the fallacy of SDA tenets, but by learning that God loved him unconditionally, and receiving CHrist as his personal saviour. Then praying to understand the truth each time he read the bible.
We married, and were going to a pretty liberal SDA church, although I was not SDA. The pastor at the church was very outreach oriented, and spiritually driven. A lot of people had a problem with that. He also preached a seromn about tithe, and the fact that he planned to start using part of his tithe to send straight to charities of his choosing, as GOd led. The conference fired him for that and the church split. -- So the new non-denom church met on Saturdays, but wasnt part of the SDs conference. It was kind of an SDA halfway house. (still is, actually).
At this same time, my husband started attending a mens small group, and accountability group. The guys were mostly non-denominational, one was an ex-SDA. They prayed for each other, read Scriptures together, and shared their thoughts. THis ex-SDA guy was able to share the concept of the New Covenant in a non-threatening way. They were able to really talk about the issues without my husband feeling like he was "SDA-bashing."
I really think this made all the difference. Sometimes the person you are romantically involved with is not the right person to really dive into spiritually sensitive issues with. WIth this guy, he knew that his motives were pure, that he didn't have ulterior reasons for wanting him to "drop SDAism".
Meanwhile, I just kept talking to him about how much God loved us, and what it would be like to really walk with God. Much of the time, he didn't understand what I was talking about, but I kept it up anyway.
One day, my husband said that he felt like God was calling us to find a different church. I was surprised, but didn't feel 100% about the "halfway house" situation we found ourselves in either. Too many disgruntled people!
He said he didnt think he was leaving the SDA church as much as "just following what GOd wanted for us."
Several moves, and several churches later, my husband is absolutely out of Adventism. He just wrote a letter to have his SDA membership revoked last week. We have a home church in our home, and he runs 2 accountability groups. We go to a non-denominational church now.
He didn't actually sit down and take a hard look at Adventism's tenets until just a few months ago. He just studied about the new Covenant, and learned how to pray, and then saved the "SDA digging" for later. SInce he has been looking at the SDA stuff now, he says it is
so obviously wrong, and not just slightly. That it is dangerous in that it points people away from CHrist, and away from assurance of salvation. That it leads so easily to law worship.
(cont in new post)
Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 65
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

(sorry this is so long, hard to sum up!)
Anyway, the main thrust is that you can argue theology until you are blue in the face, and she'll probably hold out, if she's anything like the SDAs I have met. But if you can introduce her to the idea of the New Covenant, introduce something new, rather than just "attacke" her premises, you might get somwhere.
And PRAY for her. Pray hard. So will I!
You may even want to talk to my husband to get some insight into how to talk to her in a way that would be less threatening to her, and might be effective. I know he would be more than happy to talk to you!
I'd bettewr sign off for now. Best of luck! My email is tealeaves92@yahoo.com if you want to talk more or would like to talk to my husband about the journey out of SDAism and how it affected our new marriage relationship. Hope to hear from you.
-tanya-
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 376
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hrobinsonw, boy do I feel your dilemna and I hope you don't have to experience my pain now. I met my SDA "boyfriend" (now former boyfriend, I guess) almost 5 years ago. In some ways, he is not a strict SDA in that he will go out after sundown on Friday night and does some things on Saturdays I've heard others say is "wrong" for the sabbath. However, we have a child together and since the time I told him I was pregnant, I became his enemy. I even feared he would try to force me into vegetarianism while I was pregnant. Now that our son is 15 months old and eating .... meat.... the relationship is adversarial to say the least. He is FURIOUS I have disregarded his feelings and am teaching his son to have a "depraved appetite". For a while I tried to incorporate B (as I call him here) into my family dinners on Saturday evenings, but he wouldn't let any one else sit next to the baby and if I set the baby next to my other child or next to me, he would rearrange the place settings setting himself between the baby and me/my other son making sure no one was on the other side of the baby. I had to completely sever all social ties with him because he became so derogatory towards me and my other son as though we were threats to "his" son. He has crushed the heart of my 11-year old who really thought B cared about him, until the baby came long that is. When I look at the relationship we had before our son, and what it is now, I never could have imagined it would really be bad (though I knew intellectually it would be exactly like this). We tried a camping weekend a month ago, and it just was awful. The tension and unspoken anger was just constant, especially at mealtimes. I have tried to respect B's wishes and not feed my son meat in front of him, but during this weekend trip, my son kept grabbing my sandwich, I gave him the bread, the lettuce and the cheese, all he threw on the ground...he wanted the turkey. His dad looked as though he had been stabbed through the heart. I felt awful for him, but angry at the same time for such stupid requirements.

I anticipate future arguments about SDA schools, and a full-fledged custody battle eventually. I've noticed he is liquidating some assets (his house to move in with his brother so he can "save" money). From my perspective, trying to live the dual life - partially in adventism, and partially out...sounds dangerous. I don't think you can live partially in that world. If the potential in-laws are involved, you cannot underestimate that pressure. Before we had the baby, we lived our separate lives in this area and it was no big deal...but kids change things. Even things we used to do with some comfort are now just miserable. And it still hurts that I have brought my child into this environment.

From my experience, and I know it sounds harsh, but unless and until your fiance is completely willing to leave the church and take the necessary heat from her family for the rest of her life...don't get married...and don't have kids. I pray for my son and his father all the time. But his dad is already telling him "momma's being a jerk" as he hands him to me after a visitation. Only God knows what he tells him when I'm not around.

I don't say these things to scare you, but it is a healthy dose of my reality. Be on the same page... be equally yoked. My heart still hurts when I see him and think of what we have become. I deeply loved him. But it's as though none of it was real since I didn't adopt to his worldview. Be very careful. Guard your heart.
Grace_g
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Username: Grace_g

Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hrobinsonw,
I married a non-Adventist, non-denomonational Bible-church attending Christ loving man. I was a very devout, practicing SDA when we were dating. I was surprised at the thought of even marrying someone outside the church. My parents were not supportive, but I fell in love and wanted to get married. I told him that the only way that we could get married were if he would agree to keep the Sabbath with me, attend church with me, and raise the children in the church [tho not necessarily the schools]. He agreed. Although my husband didn't believe in the tenets of Adventism,he was very respectful of my then beliefs, and kept his word. We are still married ten years later, and the ironic thing is now I am on my way out of the church. It happened all out of my own accord, and through no proselytizing on his part.

I have to be completely honest, it was very, very difficult, especially in the beginning. But what made it work for us was that we 1.) established ground rules 2.) never tried to convince each other of our own 'truth', and 3.) never secretly thought the other would change. We both kept our promises.

I think that marriages as such can work, but they require a lot of hard work and dedication. If your relationship is the type that will grow under stress, then you'll be fine. If you always feel like you are battling for ownership on theology, or trying to change each other, it will be very difficult.

BTW, I think this principle applies to any type of crisis w/in a marriage, not strictly religion.

Best of luck,
Grace
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 376
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa, your post is profound. Hrobinsonw, truly the only hope for your relationship is if she meets Jesus and gives her heart to Him. She probably says she has accepted Jesus, but to an Adentist, that usually means an intellectual assent that Jesus is God and died to save us. In fact, Adventists actually teach that it's important to send kids to SDA schools because it is by one's intellectual training that spirtual things are discerned. In general, they have no real idea of the new birth. Since they do not believe humans have spirits (they call the "spirit" their "breath"), they have no way to understand or conceive of a new birth accomplished by the Holy Spirit bringing our dead spirit to life. Oh, they'll say the Holy Spirit lives in them, but usually that's a theoretical idea, and it doesn't result in a changed life.

If she has been partying, etc., I suspect (from my own experience in Adventism), that she likely has not truly met Jesus, because such behavior is clearly wrong to an Adventist. Usually those who take what they know of Jesus seriously also try to take their own rules seriously. But I'll freely admit that I may be wrong in this assessment. Given what you say about her father, I'm certain she's been given really unclear, mixed messages about Jesus. Her father is clearly living contrary to what he is bound to preach and expect of his own congregation.

The power of the Sabbath belief, the fear of the mark of the beast, and the spirit of Adventism have a powerful, illogical hold on Adventists. If she is going to be able to leave Adventism and live as a Christ-follower, she will need to realize her need of Jesus. Tealeaves is right about that need.

I'll quote Melissa: "Be very careful. Guard your heart."

With prayers for you and her,
Colleen
Hoytster
Registered user
Username: Hoytster

Post Number: 99
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, Hrobinsonw,

My son's mother (call her Linda) was raised SDA, attending Sabbath School and SDA schools. When the time came (age 13?) she refused to join the church on theological grounds, and never has. When we met, the only sign of her background was her attitude toward pork: whenever we ate out, she put the waiter through the 3rd degree, making sure that there wasn't any bacon in the recipe, that the soup broth was beef-based and not ham.

So she was a cultural Adventist, and even that was a light touch. She had no qualms about movies on Friday night, her jewelry box was full, she wore make-up to excess when we first met. It was on this forum that I learned about the prevalent Adventist culture, because Linda retained only a smattering of her childhood religion.

That all changed when our child was born.

He was attending Cradle Roll on Sabbath mornings from age six months. When he was of school age, she made me a deal, that she would dictate his education for grades 1-3 then I would get to determine the next three years. She booted me before it was my turn, though, and sent my son to an SDA school. Only this next fall, as my son enters 7th grade, have I managed to get her agreement for him to attend a non-denominational Christian school.

She has also read to him a children's version of Ellen White's The Great Controversy. Among other things, that book teaches that the Pope is the anti-Christ, and that all Sunday worshippers will receive the mark of the beast and be condemned. That includes you, by the way.

So my son has been raised with the belief that his father cannot be saved because I am not an Adventist.

Linda's mother is a SDA convert, which makes her especially adamant. She hates Catholics, and all Sunday worshippers are really Catholics, did you know?! Under her influence, my son has been a vegetarian from age 5. I don't have any great objection to vegetarianism. He eats eggs and cheese, thankfully, so I don't have to worry about protein and B-12, and we can eat out with comparative ease. He thinks that it is a salvation issue, though, which is incredibly wrong, and is part and parcel off the wrongness with the whole SDA approach.

Read this forum for a while, and you'll get the message that SDA is a blight on the spirit, a stumbling block against having a relationship with Christ.

And while there are many exceptions, as a rule SDAs are not Christians, they are worshippers of the Sabbath, idolators worshipping a day of the week because they are deceived by a false prophet.

Knowing what I know, I would run, not walk, away from this woman as quickly as possible. You cannot trust her words, because she doesn't know her own convictions, and won't until the children come. Then she will make sure that the virus of Adventism is communicated to yet another generation.

There are about 3 billion women on this planet. Only about 3 one-hundredths of 1 percent of them are SDAs. Find someone else, for your own sake the for the sake of your someday-children.

You are in my prayers.

- Hoytster
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra

Post Number: 125
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hrobinsonw,

I'm no judge, but sounds like she needs to be saved. The revelation of grace is so huge it just puts everything else in the shadow--where it was intended to be.

God will lead you and guide you if you can remember that He knows best and His ways are not our ways and follow Him either way. You have to be willing to leave all to follow Him and it may be that this is not His will.

If things remain the way they are and you marry this person you will be unequally yoked and you will have so many problems. I know it is hard to see down the road like that when you are engaged but it wont always be so fun. Then you subject children to a church that is built on lies and quite bluntly, demonic forces. It's not just a church that meets on Saturday, there is so much else that the average onlooker can't see.

Take Hoysters advice, the devil wants to make you miserable, Jesus came that you would have life abundantly. Choose life that you and your descendants will live.

Welcome to the board and I'm praying for you,
Sabra
Hallanvaara
Registered user
Username: Hallanvaara

Post Number: 45
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember as a nightmare my own story about my marriage. I was a second generation SDA and my fiancee wasn另 quite religion at all.

I was perfectly brainwashed and one sentence haunted me all the time. It was one of EGW叫 rule: Gather the stars to your crown by converting people. EGW wrote in Testimonies that Jesus puts a crown on His children heads when we get to heaven. Every people has different amount of stars on their crowns depending on how many people they "had led to Jesus" which means converted to adventism. (How equal are we in heaven?! Like George Orwell wrote in his book Animal farm: "Some are more equal than others."??)

So. I felt quilty I didn另 preach in street corners and couldn另 go abroad to "gather stars" but I decided that my fiancee will sure be one of my star in that crown.

I stubbornly started to prove my point of wiev. I preached, dragged him to church, gave EGW books, oppressed, broiled, forced...totally rolled over him with my adventism. My fiancee was a kind person and quite open minded and searching, too, because SDA beliefs assured him and he was baptised. I said "open minded and searching" because any person who has strong indenpence and healthy doubts can prove SDA beliefs easily non-biblical.

Well...I "got my star" but it didn't make our life happier. Our life were blameless but our heart didn't change. We divorced after 7 yrs and he left adventism, too.

As we Finns say here: The water which is carried in a well doesn另 stay there. So is things around faith. You have to let Jesus and Holy Spirit flow in to your heart. It may take quite long time, but when you let this happen, it stays. No one can carry it into you.

Hrobinson, if I were you I would be very alert. It may now seem that your fiancee loves you so much she values your point of view but when you live your weekdays and months, years passes by she may get irritated and feel pressure to convert you anyway. And children makes the ultimate dividing.

Pray a lot. And discuss with your fiancee about your thoughts. But first of all: don另 let her drag you into adventism.

Praise God from His Son!

Tuija

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