| Author | Message | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 665 Registered: 11-2002 |
Once again I'll add my two cents worth. HRobinsnow, p-l-e-a-s-e pay attention to what us on here are saying to you. SDA's appear rather normal at first in a friendship. It takes awhile of in depth knowing them to fully appriciate how deep some of their peculiarities are. I'll share a short story that may illistrate what I'm talking about. Until several years ago I never knew a JW's personally. Only casually was acquainted with several through local businesses or in the neighborhood. Then I married a man who had been raised JW and got to know very well his JW siblings, mother and other relatives and JW friends. Believe me, being on the "inside" I became aware of a lot of total bunk, crap that being on "the outside looking in" I never would have been even slightly aware of. The same can be said of SDA's. At this point she will still be saying and doing all the things to make her religion seem normal, but only with a few quirks. After you get on the "inside" these quirks won't seem like quirks anymore because then they will become major obsticles. I have a Sabbath School teaching boozer cousin. She married a Presperterian. They lived together several years before they married. Before they married she was understanding of their differences in religious persuasion. They have been married for around 30 years but it is because he has totally given in to her religious convictions. I avoid being with various kin of mine because they love to acost me on the religion thing. They think of me like a CIA agent does after tracking down a trader, a spy. My SDA elderly mother asked/yelled at me when she found out that I actually joined a local Lutheran church if I am now taking classes in tortuching/perscuating Conmandent Keepers in the last days. To a SDA the term Conmandment Keeper means only 7th-day Adventists because they truly believe in the last days the ever faithful SDA's will be tortured/perscuated by the Sunday-keepers. Never mind telling them that there is not even one Sunday-keeper on the face of the earth that knows that he/she will someday be perscuating SDA's because the SDA's know that the poor, stupid Sunday-keepers really don't know that someday they will be doing this to SDA's because the Pope hasn't yet given the decree to begin the persucation. It just will go in circles. When I tell my kin that there is not a Sunday-keeper on earth that knows he/she will be perscuating SDA's someday my kin know this is true. But, they still believe the heathen Sunday-keepers will someday turn on them as soon as the Pope sends out the decree to do the evil to them because they are the only true and faithful servents on earth because they are the chosen, the SDA's. It's very convoulted. And, yes, my kin honestly do in the privacy of their own homes refer to Sunday-keeping Christians, even the ones in our own extended family that they truly love and care about, they honestly do refer to these people as heathens. My son was in the state prison. My elderly father would go to the prison to visit this grandson nearly each Friday afternoon. On one visit my dad asked my son if he ate pork when it was served at the prison. My son assured his beloved grandfather that no pork ever touched his lips. My dad went to his grave being so pleased that this grandson was living such a virtuous life that he would not eat pork. Never mind the burgarlaries that got my son there. Somehow the commandment about not stealing was never brought up. I guess I got to rambeling. I hope this all makes sense. And, remember, too that my six year old kindergartener grandchild came home from school telling us the life story of Ellen White. This was just several months ago. BTW, I'm still picking up the pieces my husband left me with. Please, keep this in your prayers, too. I haven't seen him in nearly eight months or heard from him in nearly seven months. He left me thousands of dollars in dept. I was scammed. It's a hard thing for me to admit. He said all the right things before we got married. After about four months into the marriage I began to notice things just weren't adding up, if you know what I mean. Then after he took all he could he took off and left me in great dept. But, back to your concerns-please be careful. And, remember people do tend to put their best foots forward during the courtship period. | ||
| Hallanvaara Registered user Username: Hallanvaara Post Number: 48 Registered: 1-2004 |
Dear Susan_2, I got tears in my eyes reading your last lines. You really have hard times right now and I sure carry you in my prayers in front of our Saviour. Nobody, not God, not Jesus promised us easy life, but leaning on His promises and loving each other is the way we can manage day after day. Sometimes our streght is totally gone and we have strength only to hang on a thought: Jesus Christ, help me. And it¥s enough. We just must hang. Hang on and keep your eyes on Jesus, our Lord. With prayers, Tuija | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 211 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hrobinson,Please pay attention to what everyone is saying. Getting involved with an SDA involves more than just loving them. It is a recipe for disaster. Pray and pray and pray some more. I have said before and will say again, I would turn and run as fast as I could. You can show her all kinds of Bible verses, but SDAs have their own interpretation that is different from the rest of the Christian community. Pray for her that God will open her eyes, ears, and mind if you are going to show her what the Bible says. I was raised SDA and I read all the texts I am reading now, but never saw what they really said until I gave up EG White. EGWhite is a false prophet and SDAs revere her as they believe she was inspired by God. Please, for your sake, for the happiness you deserve, for your future, consider this as you read all the stories of the SDAs who left the church on this site and as you read the web sites that are linked here. I am praying for you. Diana | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2004 |
In some wierd way, I feel that my purpose lies with her. I never wanted to be with her. We were friends for a very long time and I was with another. I started developing feelings for her and I began to pray. The girl that I was with became troublesome because she didn't approve of me actually trying to live what I was raised to believe in Christ. With feelings developing for my now fiance' after all of these years, I just prayed. I asked God to decide for me. I told him that I remove all contact with myself and that situation. It is all in his hands and I will go in whatever direction that he sends me in. Mysteriously, my girlfriend at the time started becoming insane because I was going to church and talking to her about it. If I let someone borrow money out of goodness, she called me weak. Finally she told me that she was going away from Jesus and I was going towards him. So I left her alone. The SDA friend, I became deeper and deeper into her. And I fell in love. Not for her SDA beliefs, but because she is a praying woman. But she is confused. Here lies my conviction in the spirit. There are many wandering souls that bump into me in the streets. Many are disgruntled SDA's. So many SDA's tell me that they fear for their souls. That hurts me deeply, very deeply. I don't like knowing that people's souls hang in the balance. Whether you go to church on Saturday or Sunday. Both styles have individuals who are going to church out of routine, and singing and dancing to go with it. But inside of them, is a tornado. And my fiance' is one of them. I am compelled to help her. Not only her, so many Christian converts are becoming SDA's when they meet her surrouning people. MY SPIRIT DOESN'T LET ME REST KNOWING THAT FALSEHOOD IS BEING SPREAD. Her father is sooooooooooooooo lost as well. He wants so badly to be Baptist, but he can't because he gets paid being and Adventist traveling from church to church. She is vulnerable and weak. If presented with truth, she'll change. I mean how can she get Adventist doctrine when she only goes to church to hear the music, she leaves after the choir sits down. That tells me that her heart is not completely SDA. What do yall, think. Am I spirit lead or dilusional. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 213 Registered: 3-2004 |
You better pray some more. Apart from the Bible, some people are caregivers and like to help those in need. They can be vulnerable and Satan knows that. So you have to be careful about the spirit leading you. Remember, we can only spread God's word. The Holy Spirit does the convicting. She may not change when presented with the truth. She has a background of SDA teaching, like I did, that can prevent her from grasping the truth. Personally I would tell her, I love you, but our beliefs are very different and I am not going to change. But that is me, with an experience in my own life similar to yours. I would not do it again. Bottom line!!! I continue to pray for you. Diana | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2004 |
Whoa!!!!!!!! That hurt. But I appreciate your honesty. I do have a question though. I remember reading in my research that EGW made a statement regarding seeing the 4th commandment shining brighter than the others, then she knew then that it was not nailed on the cross with Christ, because if it were, all of the other commandments would have been nailed as well. My research also tells me that that viewpoint was the end of Millerism and the begining of SDA, being that the fourth commandment is remember the Sabbath Day . Oh, and do you have aol instant messaging so that we can talk faster. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 345 Registered: 1-2003 |
Hello again. Wow. I understand your turmoil. I was determined to marry SDA but the problem was, I was a substance abuser...so I had to find an SDA substance abuser...not a hard thing to do. I married a guy who wouldn't touch a piece of pork but would shoot cocaine into his jugualar vein (when the others eventually gave out). See how sick I was with Adventism and how brainwashed I was? Of course he abused me...that goes along with drug and alcohol use...long story short, the Lord delieverd me (as I never gave up praying...even though I was sure I was unsavable). But I remember I was terribly conflicted when I was contemplating marrying this guy (I realize now it was the Holy Spirit trying to warn me...think about it...if is was meant to be I would have had complete peace). But I kept telling the Lord, "I want to help him." He was far worse off into drugs than I ever got...I dabbled, alcohol was my drug of choice. Looking back, I was perpetuating my mother's co-dependance...she needed to be needed an I got that from her. I wanted him to change and I wanted to be the savior...trust me, it doesn't happen unless they want to change. It just gets sicker and more co-dependant and deeper into a downward spiral of hell. Why am I telling you this? Because you don't have to marry her until you have spent a lot of time with her...don't jump in. Get her to your church...most SDA are shocked when they see that "Babylonians" aren't what they expected. Most of the non-SDA churches I have attended are quiet as a...church? Try going to an SDA church, they leave the kids in the sanctuary and people don't take them out when they make noise and people talk, and half of them stand out in the foyer gossiping...no one is really listening because most SDA preachers talk in circles and make no sense...why? Because I believe the Holy Spirit confounds them because they are preaching error. I think Ellen White said it best when she said, "Sleeping preachers preaching to sleeping congregations." Ellen did see the 4th commandment shining brightly above the rest, which goes directly against what Jesus said when asked what the greatest commandment was. My kids are attending a non-denominational church (sporadically) and I asked my son what they taught him in the children's church (they keep them out of the adult service and it is very quiet) and he said, "What the greatest commandment is." I held my breath because we had all been taught as SDA what that was...He said, "To love God and your neighbor as yourself." Heavy relieved sigh from me. I am not saying there isn't hope for your fiance, just please do not marry her until you have made an agreement to get premarriage counseling from your pastor (not hers). Your pastor can go over the Gospel, etc. and you can make sure your beliefs line up. And even though she may agree now, when kids come, whoa...I did a complete 360! I started insisting my husband not play in a band on Friday night. We went to church and absolutely no secular tv or radio on Sabbath (my oldest son used to dive for the radio if it was accidentally on a secular station as if it was life or death! to change it) we also stopped visiting relatives or friends that might have a tv on on sabbath...hypocrisy to the highest level! We also lived a double life because we both drank alcohol (my new husband and I) and ate meat (not in front of his family) and I took my jewelry off before church or seeing his relatives...in short, SDA are very comfortable living a double life...which actually I think led to my husband eventually cheating on me...he was so used to living a secret double life...know what I mean? Duplicity. I believe Adventism has a demonic hold (pride mixed with fear) on it's members...scratch the surface with your fiance and who knows what will happen. I am praying for you. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 346 Registered: 1-2003 |
Let me just add one more thing. My SDA preacher's wife mother-in-law was at my house last week and she started crying to my mother that she was afraid I would lead my kids to join a sunday church...she said, "If you lose the Sabbath, you have lost everything." But what she doesn't realize is...just because we sat in a pew every sabbath didn't make us saved. We had no relationship with Jesus. It offends me that she is upset with me for studying it out and leaving SDAism but is perfectly happy with my husband who never picks up a bible but 100% believes in the Sabbath. I am the heretic, the unsaved, not a commandment keeper, but he is A-ok. See how twisted it is? | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 347 Registered: 1-2003 |
One more thing...I am not saying my husband isn't saved, that is between he and God...but I am saying I never see him pray or have a bible study or a relationship with God...but who knows his heart...maybe he prays without me knowing. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 670 Registered: 11-2002 |
I would like to comment on the being saved issue. SDA's are taught to never say they are saved. I call it the revolving door of saved. They are taught to believe they are saved only when they are in a state of perfection. Knowing fullwell that perfection is impossible they suffer from much anxiety about not having assurance of eternal life with Jesus. The pressure to obtain perfection is great. I do not know if this is true or not but a social worker once told me that an extremely high amount of SDA's are on anti-anxiety medications. I tend to believe it. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 350 Registered: 1-2003 |
I know for a fact many of the members of the SDA church I attended are on medication and highly anxious individuals. I think that is why so many self-medicate with alcohol too. Good observation Susan2. | ||
| Grace_g Registered user Username: Grace_g Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hrobinsonw, If you are trying to save or change another person, it will be a long, difficult road for you. Your fiancee may be rebelling at this moment, and therefore doesn't behave like a practicing Adventist, but that could all change as soon as you have kids, or she gets reconvicted within her beliefs. My husband and I, when we were dating, discussed religion a lot. One of his favorite things to say was, "I think when we study this together, we'll come to a mutual understanding for both of us." We now both know that was a very naive statement. If it were that easy, really, why would there be so many denominations? I think it's possible for interfaith marriages to work, but as I said, you need to establish ground rules, address issues on how the children will be raised, and STICK WITH IT. If you can't come to an understanding before you are married, then I would not continue into planning the wedding until you can. Know what your dealbreakers are. Talk about them. If your relationship is worth preserving, know what it takes to make that happen. Make sure it's clear long before you talk about going down the aisle. Remember you're not just marrying her, you're marrying into her family. That means many weekends at the in-laws, hanging out after church, going to baptism, potlucks, looking the other way when you see inconsistencies, etc. Is it important in your relationship that you attend these type of events together? Can you participate in all these events w/out being critical? Will she able to attend your family events? Will she be comfortable in family gatherings where drinking and smoking is the norm? Will she be able to raise your children to feel comfortable hanging around grandparents that drink? Or want to take them to the movies? The ballpark on Friday evening and feed them hotdogs? The principles that helped preserve peace in our relationship was that we: 1. respected each other's right to have a denomational viewpoint; 2. never, ever, assumed the other would change, even with given all the information in the world 3. agreed on how the kids would be raised [our agreement may differ from yours] 4. stuck with our agreement As I said, I have changed w/in the last 10 years, and we are no longer going to the SDA church. But I could have been convicted into becoming more devout. You have to be prepared for all contingencies, and know what you'll do to deal with them. I know it sounds so tactical, but really, in the end, for me, all romance aside, a successful marriage has meant a partner that I can count on. He does what he says, keeps his promises, and I can turn to him on everything. Once the bloom of romance wears off, it's really about divvying up house chores, anyway. ;) Grace | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2004 |
We have agreed to respect each other. She wants children to go to Adventist schools. My argument is that at your schools growing up, they told you that dinosaurs come from men having sex with animals, and you believe that. She had to go to remedial and refresher courses because she couldn't get into college with an 8th grade mathematics level. And right now she doesn't have any education. It upsets me because she is smart. She was never educated properly. I want my children to have the same opportunities that I had. And I came up in a far more Chrisian environment than she did. And for the individual discussing drug habits, it must be prevelant in SDA because her father was on drugs for years, and he was a minister the entire time. He talks loosely of women in front of people. He watches attractive women like a hawk. And he can't decide whether he wants to be with his wife or not, he keeps leaving her and coming back. I was raised around strong Christians. This is new to me. She and I can talk about things, but really I just want to know what possible ways could I use to get her to see the truth. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 351 Registered: 1-2003 |
Stay away from SDA schools. They don't care about the quality only the quantity (IOW, that there are pleanty available so each SDA child will not be exposed to the world and leave the fold and be lost.). Ellen White advocates keeping kids home and out of school (nature being their teacher) until the age of 10. I pretty much did this and really messed my oldest up! If she is adamant on SDA schools you must carefully consider this. Not only is it a poor education but it is indoctrination into error every single day in a very subtle way. I noticed in your header that it is she who is having doubts about you because you are not SDA. What are her issues in particular? | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 379 Registered: 7-2003 |
Been there, done some of it and thought most of it. I was so sure if I could just show B the truth about what the Bible said...I just didn't realize how they have answers for the "truth" of the bible. I even saw a book he had one time which was a quick guide of sorts to answer "common" non-SDA questions ... and it gave a list of scriptures to "battle" contradictory scriptures to their pet doctrines. One thing I know about God's leading is he is not going to lead you to contradict his word. I used to be absolutely convinced God lead B to me because he was such a huge help at the time with my retarded daughter. I wondered if I would have survived that time if he hadn't come along. But that didn't make the rest of our relationship and the path it took God's plan as well. Two cannot walk together except they be agreed, and that yoking thing. I tried so hard to get around that one. I'd say "but it says to "non-believers" and B is a believer". But inch by inch, I've come to realize B is religious. He knows adventism pretty well, and the right words to say...but personal relationship? I don't see it. I don't see fruits of the spirit. He completely disregards my concern for moral purity, even though we've had our failures in that area. He has no conviction on it saying those passages only talk about being with harlots and prostitutes. See how adventism has taught him to split hairs on scriptures he doesn't like rather than taking in the whole word of God? I wanted to believe he was right, but the Spirit was not leaving me alone with that one. It was only when I realized how completely and totally I had to surrender ... to the point I wouldn't even hold his hand ... that I comprehended the magnitude of my straying. What I have noticed is that we have very little in common to work with, ultimately. We work together, so that provides a big source of conversation, but because of the religious challenges, we can't even share little things that we may wonder about. One time I remember sharing something with him about a quiet time I had had, and he took what I felt was so the Spirit's teaching about something and just dismissed it saying it was completely contradictory to scripture blah blah blah. My personal conversations with God weren't even safe with him. I still say, unless and until she can leave the religion, on her own, without any doubt, potential remorse or fear of retaliation from her family, don't get married. Be her friend, be her best friend, love her even...don't get married, don't have kids. I don't remember who's story above talked about how her husband came out because of another former SDA talking with him. I don't think that I, as a non-SDA, will ever be a credible witness to the truth in scripture in his eyes. He's been taught too many scary and negative things about "us". I have been where you are, I wish someone would have told me years ago what I now know. Of course, once my heart was involved, it was hard to be objective about the "right" thing to do when my "want to" didn't want to. Having been married before to someone I shared more with spiritually, life happens ... and it is the foundation and your anchor that is going to be what keeps you together through the hardest times. That foundation and that anchor has to be the same thing or the storms of life will lead you apart as you each grab onto your individual anchors. I can say all that because if he came back today and tried to get to me with the commonalities, I know I'd be tempted to fall back in. My heart still desires for it to work out ... I want it for myself, I want it for our son, I want it for my other kids....even after all the bad. We had a lot of fun, for a while. I know our anchor and rudder in life is on separate continents, but the heart and mind just don't gel on that one. I have had to trust my head because my emotional state makes my heart unreliable. Do yourself a favor and become firmly familiar with what scripture says about marriage and accountabilities and responsibilities. For me, I knew I could never "submit" my convictions to B's if "God" lead him to take our family in a way different than mine. In part, because I don't trust the "God" he is following. That was hard to swallow, but every time the subject of marriage has come up...that's what I thought of. I personalized it. I said if B required me to be vegetarian, as his wife and part of our family, could I go there. Or if he said I couldn't plant flowers on Saturday any more, could I go there (they are spiritual issues to him). That may be a stretch on the passage, but it gave me roots to hold on to. I couldn't trust him to know God's leading in the little things, how was I going to trust him in the big. You're here. You already must see trouble ahead. Pay attention to the signs. God will not lead you contrary to his word. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 380 Registered: 7-2003 |
BTW, the more I tried to "do" to show him adventism's errors, the more convinced he became they were right. That is the hardest, most tragic thing to accept. There is very little we can do. If she has questions (and if she's wanting to raise kids in SDA schools, it doesn't sound like it), you might be able to offer her some of the Books Colleen mentioned by Ratzlaff, but you have to be careful not to put her into the position to "defend" adventism. Pride will kick in, and even if she sees a point, it may be hard to back down. I obviously failed, but I was sure zealous in my heart to show him the truth. I don't know of anyone who has succeeded actually, except those who came out together as husband and wife, having both been in. Sorry to sound so negative. I wanted to know the same things you did when I started in here last July. How can I fix him. I can't. And I had to let him go. Maybe if you do it differently than I, you'll have a better shot...or maybe it doesn't matter "how" you do it, it has to be in her heart to see the contradictions and want to do something about it. Pray. But keep your eyes open to reality in the meantime. | ||
| Barbsigirl Registered user Username: Barbsigirl Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2004 |
I just want to say that I was a firm believer in the SDA doctrine when I married my "Sunday keeping" husband. He was tolerant and never bothered me when I held to my religion. He teased me about not eating pork or shopping on the "Sabbath". But otherwise he was great about it. I did not have a relationship with Jesus however, just a knowledge of the "end times" and I hoped that someday HE would come around and learn the "Truth". Well, the opposite happened. I went to some meetings at his church by Ron Carlson who specializes in cults. Although they didn't mention SDA's at the meetings, he directed me to the sdaoutreach.org (I think) website and the rest is history. I was always envious of the people who were confident in their salvation, and hated that I had to be in the SDA church where I "knew too much". It is a struggle still to let go of those old tapes, but I am getting there. I no longer feel in bondage by EGW. In fact, my first feeling of freedom I liken to one of those weighted dental aprons that they put on you for x-rays. I felt like someone just lifted it off of me!! | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2004 |
Ok, we agreed to go to church on both saturday and sunday. i don't judge her and she knows that i give her room to breathe. but her family knows that she was sheltered all of her life. though my parents are deeply christian, we still lived amongst the world. she hasn't experienced much of anything. and knowing me, her family comes at me as if to say if she marries me she will go away and no longer be Adventist. Her problem with me is not what i do because she says that she accepts it. but she always asks will i keep the sabbath with her when we get married, and what if our children want to go to the movies with daddy on Friday night. Those are mainly our issues. she has accpeted that i won't change. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 215 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hrobinsonw, No, I do not have aol instant messaging. About Mrs. White. She plagiarized from others of her time, had others write for her and said she was inspired by God. She does not pass the test of a prophet. She is a FALSE PROPHET. Please go the web sites that are linked to this one and find out about her failed prophecies. Your friend is protected like I was protected in an SDA environment. It is not a good environment for Christian growth. If God had not worked with me the way he has for the past 25 years, I would still be SDA. He chipped away at me, a little at a time. One suggestion, DO NOT READ EGWhite. I do not want you getting confused. Like I said above, she is a false prophet. Go to the links on this site and read about her. And read your Bible and pray and pray and pray. If you want to e-mail me, you can do so at DRL-OTR@juno.com. God loves you and will teach you the truth. Diana | ||
| Barbsigirl Registered user Username: Barbsigirl Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2004 |
I went to church on Sat. and Sun. for many months. It is very hard to do! Although if you do that maybe it can plant a seed for her to see a new light. Really that is great that you want to go with her too. My husband went with me sporatically, and then he really got involved in his own church and quit going with me. I loved going to his church, the music and programs and lessons were awesome! I just always felt that they didn't have all of the truth. But now I see them differently after learning about EGW and all of her deception. |
