| Author | Message | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 676 Registered: 11-2002 |
It seems the SDA's preceive they are being fired for keeping Sabbath and have now put a bill into the senate (house?) that will protect them from workplace discrimination. I attended the SDA church yesterday and the short statement in he bulletin says this, "Adventist Church Calls Urgent Action...Adventists are being fired at unprceented levels for no crime other than keeping the Sabbath. Our religious liberty team is working to pass the Workplace Religious Freedom Act, which is designed to protect Sabbath keepers and other people of faith in the workplace. But the bill is currently under intense attack. Visit www.religiousliberty.info to raise your voice to support religious liberty." I went to the website but because I do not have a real computer I could not access the information about the bill. I hope one of you out there with a real computer can look it up and let us know what this bill is really saying. I do know the minister stood up yesterday and told the congreation everyone should be writing their representives and senators urging passage of this bill. Not knowing what the bill really is saying I don't have an opinion yet. Being a bonified and registured Libertarian and pretty much agreeing with most political issues in the Libertarian way of thinking I just keep thinking that an employeer should have the right to make his own rules about when he needs his employees to be at work. Heck, it's his company. I just can't see how that would take away from someones religious freedom. No one makes anyone here in the United States work on Saturday. It's a choice to have that job. Get a different job. I always thought in the deepest recesses of my head that the SDA church is so much into having hospitals, doctors, nurses, and other health related fields is so they had a loophole with the Sabbath doctrine. If a SDA doctor has to go do something with a patient on Sabbath that is considered o.k. but if a teacher is expected to chaperone at the high school dance on Friday evening then that is not o.k. I was even once told that SDA healthcare professionals should limit their employment to SDA healthcare facilities. This is because apparently at SDA healthcare facilities only the bare necessary work is done on Sabbath, such as no routine bathing of patients, no changing bed linins on Sabbath, etc. And, if the SDA's really believe the endtimes will happen like they say it will-the Sunday laws and all and that they are called to hasten the coming of Jesus then wouldn't they want this sort of legistation? I guess I "just don't get it". | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 228 Registered: 3-2004 |
Susan_2, I am a healthcare professional and was nominally SDA, even though my name was off the church books. I applied for a job at the Shady Grove SDA Hospital in Maryland. They had physical therapy, occupational therapy and speech therapy on weekends. It is done for monetary reasons. If they did not offer therapy 7 days a week, certain insurances would not pay for the patient's stay there. That is not just doing the bare necessities on the Sabbath. They are money hungry like other hospitals and other businesses. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 685 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear Flyinglady, Until read your post above this one I had always believed SDA healthcare facilities allowed no work done in that place that could be done the other six days of the week. I am still with the understanding that SDA facilities/hospitals do not schedule any elective surgeries on Saturdays. What is the truth in this issue? | ||
| Hallanvaara Registered user Username: Hallanvaara Post Number: 52 Registered: 1-2004 |
This is one more hypocrisy of SDAs. It is allowed to make good in Sabbaths. So...there are so much nurses and doctors and manage to avoid difficult issues of working times but they still get paid in Sabbaths. Do good and get paid for it? Biblical? Some has asked this from SDAs but answer was confused mutter. Tuija | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 116 Registered: 4-2000 |
I understand that it is easier for a SDA nurse to get his/her Sabbath off in a non-SDA hospital than in a SDA medical institution. Many devout SDA nurses prefer working in a non-SDA hospital because they can more easily get their Sabbaths off there. Also, I understand that hospital dismissals on Sabbath have been traditonally postponed until the next day to reduce workload by business office personnel. Physicians affiliated with SDA hospitals are told about their Sabbath policies, so they generally cooperate. Consequently, this translates into more revenue for the hospital and more cost to the patient, Medicare, and insurance companies. Indeed, sabbathing does not fit into our modern society. The Sabbath practices mentioned above cost all of us more money in taxes, premiums, and other out-of-pocket expenses. The bottom line is that SDA healthcare is more costly in several ways. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 238 Registered: 3-2004 |
Susan_2, I can only tell you as a therapist. I do not know about elective surgeries. I did not work at the SDA hospital, but when I applied for a job there I was told there was work on Saturdays. They explained their work schedule to me. Diana | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 353 Registered: 1-2003 |
I worked at an SDA hospital as well as a non-SDA hospital and I had no problem getting off on Sabbath at the non-SDA but a big one at the SDA because the nurses with more senoirity got it off and the new ones had to work...it was expected that you did work on Sabbath. I posed the question on CARM...why not give the pay you receive that day to the church or a charity or your patient for that matter (HEHE). No one commented on it...wonder why? | ||
| Madelia Registered user Username: Madelia Post Number: 58 Registered: 2-2003 |
That seems to me like a form of Medicare fraud, to postpone a discharge, even though the patient is ready to go home! | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 369 Registered: 7-2003 |
Acute care hospitals are paid by Medicare under a Diagnostic Related Group (DRG) system. In other words, you get one set payment no matter how long the patient stays (with some caveats). If there are complications and the hospital has to keep them longer it costs the hospital more money. It's more financially advantageous to the institutions to discharge the patient a day early as opposed to a day late. Having said this, many (perhaps most) hospitals will delay weekend discharges if possible because weekends are usually minimally staffed and it takes a lot of resources to D/C a pt. (doctors, nurses, therapists, case manager, discharge planner, pharmacy etc). I don't think the SDAs are gouging Uncle Sam on this one. Christopher A. Lee, P.T., M.S.P.T. Director of Therapies Madonna Rehabilitation Hospital | ||
| Jeannette Registered user Username: Jeannette Post Number: 30 Registered: 3-2003 |
I see no difference in the work done at the local SDA hospital. They still wash the floors, rugs, etc on saturdays. Their cafeteria workers are just as busy because all the church members go there for lunch. I worked at a SDA extended care facility back in the 70s and had to work 3 sabbaths out of the month. There was a coworker who wanted to get every Sun off so she could go to church and was willing to work every Sat. I wanted to have every Sat off and was willing to work every Sun. We asked our supervisor and the administration said absolutely and emphatically NO. One thing I don't like about SDA's hospitals is that they charge 18%/mo interest to your balance if you cannot pay the bill in full. I am in the hospital often but I go to the non-denom hospital, even after the insurance has paid I still have a large bill to pay and they have never, ever added interest to the bills. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 120 Registered: 4-2000 |
Jeannette, Historically, SDA's have always charged the highest possible rate for things. For example, Ellen White vehemently refused to lower her royalty fee after the press felt a lower royalty cost would allow a wider distribution of her books. She even said that she would have her books published elsewhere before she would lower her royalty fee. Furthermore, she blamed the idea of lowering her royalty fee to the devil himself. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 25 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dennis, Another amazing story I have never heard before regarding EGW! I was always led to believe she was a highly selfless person! WOW! Is this story in those books Colleen told me about at another post on this forum? I want to have documentation for all these incredibly, unbelievable stories before I venture out to share these little tidbits! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 420 Registered: 12-2003 |
I'll never forget reading in Canright's book (the one available through Dale Ratzlaff's website) that the year before she died, (1914), he book royalties were $100,000. That would be a pile of royalties today, let alone in 1914 (or whatever year it was--I know it was very near her death i 1915). Another story in Canright's book that I'll always remember was the story of Reform Dress. EGW had visited a health-conditioning sanitorium, and she had been quite smitten with the "practical" pants-and-dress outfits the personnel wore. (This, of course, after she had previously renounced the new fad of wearing the pants outfits.) At any rate, she managed to be "shown" that this new style of dress was God's will for his remnant women. Further, they were only to wear outfits made with the "approved" pattern which was sold in the Review and Herald which James was publishing. Those patterns cost $1.00 apiece. (When I was young, my mom used to sew a lot; inexpensive patterns during the early 60's cost 75 cents.) For a period of months (or so), Adventist women everywhere wore those cumbersome outfits made from the Prophet-approved pattern, and according to Canright, they took a lot of teasing and rude comments from cheeky young men on the streets because they looked so odd. Suddenly, with no warning, Ellen began wearing regular clothes again. She didn't bother to say anything to the church until people began to ask her about it. Then she said that it was no longer required. The patterns, apparently, disappeared from the Review. What struck me about this story is that she made a PILE of money from those patterns before God showed her He had released Adventist women from this imposition. My goodness, no wonder there is so much deception and greed hidden in the organization of the church from the highest levels on down! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 251 Registered: 3-2004 |
Until I joined this forum, I did not know what Adventists believed and their history. I thank God for getting me out. And to think there are SDAs out there who know know this stuff and still hang onto to EGW. It is sad and I will continue to pray for them. Diana | ||
| Jeannette Registered user Username: Jeannette Post Number: 31 Registered: 3-2003 |
That is the part that amazes me, that pastors and other leaders know about EGW and they continue working for the denomination. How difficult is it for a minister to become a pastor for another denomination? Do other churches accept the Divinity degrees from the SDA institutions? I'm just wondering because I've read that there are quiet a few sda ministers who know the truth but won't leave becauseof their jobs and retirement benefits. Jeannette | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 709 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear Jeanette, I really doubt if the pastors know this stuff about EGW and some of the other shady SDA dealings. I think when they go through minister school at Andrews this shady stuff is just totally not mentioned. I have a young just graduated with a SDA theology degree from Andrews family member who pastors at an urban SDA church in Southern California and I truly believe he is totally unaware of this stuff. The wife and SDA minister husband wear wedding rings. Their little girl takes dancing lessons. I honestly believe they can not get past the serfice things-the Sabbath, certain foods and of course their thing about Jesus moving from one apartment to another apartment. I don't think tey get into how underhanded EGW was. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 390 Registered: 7-2003 |
I had my baby at an SDA hospital and was making payments on my bill (lots of complications, so high bill). After the 2nd or 3rd month of sending them a payment (insurance had already covered almost 80% of the bill, so we're not talking about a huge percentage from their pockets, but a huge one from mine), they sent a letter threatening to send me to collections if I did not send the payment in full. Approximately the same time.... my son had surgery at 2 months of age, the local children's hospital where he had the surgery allowed me to pay my portion of their bill through monthly payments without any threats or interest. I have a masters in health care administration, so I understand more than the normal individual about the challenges in health care financing. I also know out of the many hospitals in our local area, the SDA hospital is one of the more profitable ones...though i know they can't call it profit. A hospital is a business ... and they can crow about their "community service" all they want...try not paying your bill and find out what "service" they have. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 391 Registered: 7-2003 |
Susan, I looked up the website and read some of the information. It is an SDA lead group, though it sites non-SDA examples. The couple of examples sited were where people working retail were required to work on sundays. And though the company was willing to allow them the necessary time to attend worship services, would not allow them to take the whole day off as a day of rest (sound familiar? even if it's the "wrong day"). the lady was fired for not being willing to accept their offer of compromise. The court upheld the firing because the company had made "minimal" effort to accommodate the worker's religious beliefs. The bill would require the retailers like this one to give the woman wholly what she wanted unless the company would go bankrupt, causing all employees to lose their jobs. The bill therefore requires employers to do more than "minimal" effort, but to make maximum effort to give employees the rights to exercise their religious faith. They claim that the poor and those who are in an area with a glut of employees are at the risk of their employers because they can fire them and easily replace them. The director of the organization is an SDA, though they don't identify themselves as an SDA organization. They use "sundaykeeping" examples to appeal to a wider audience, though they do site muslims, hindus, jews and Jehovah's Witnesses as benefiting from this bill. They put themselves at odds with other 'christian' rights groups claiming the other groups want to work too closely with government. It seems an oxymoron to not want to work with government, but then using the government to get your personal agenda passed. They claim lots of support from various legislators. On the surface, it sounds okay. I think my "beware of anything SDA" radar is going off. I do fear people of faith may not be hired in general if there are concerns they might place excessive demands on the business. It seems to be opening a whole can of worms to give "religious liberty" such a blanket freedom. It could become against my religion to work 40 hours a week ... I did not read the bill extensively, so there might be some controls to validate legitimate religious issues from fraudulent claims. Hope this information is beneficial. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 425 Registered: 12-2003 |
Susan, unfortunatley, I do believe that most SDA pastors know about much of the fraudulent "stuff" of Adventism. Although I can't speak for the seminary in the very recent past, I do know that Rudy Torres, formerly senior pastor at the Glendale SDA church, told us one day in his Sabbath School class that when he was in the seminary at Andrews they were taught the problems with Adventism and EGW (admittedly, this was probably in the late 60s or early 70s), but they were admonished not to tell their parishioners lest it cause them to "lose faith". Today, with the increasing distribution of Ratzlaff's books, the internet's availabitlity, etc., I believe that all Adventist pastors have heard about the problems with 1844, EGW, etc. those who want to know the truth, can know it. Those who don't, can rationalize it. As far as wedding rings are concerned, the church issued permission for plain gold bands in the early 80s. By the time the GC rationalizes EGW's teachings like that, it's not a stretch for pastors also to rationalize. In fact, those pastors are not teaching true Adventism, yet they are still claimed by Adventism. It's all so deceptive. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 258 Registered: 3-2004 |
I am constantly amazed at all that happened in the time I was not going to the SDA church or went only occasionally. At times it is hard to believe that the SDA has such cultic beliefs and then changed standards. But I have to remember when one does not know the gospel, how can they be consistent? As the preacher at church said a few weeks ago, "Before we share Good News, we have to be Good News". It is very appropriate right here. I am so glad God got me out of there. God is truly awesome. Diana |
