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Grace_g
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Username: Grace_g

Post Number: 16
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...taken a drink yet? Or gotten your ears pierced? Or bought a wedding ring?

There are so many behavioral controls that are no longer valid for me, but I honestly feel a little at sea. And inexplicably, this thought wanders through my mind "could I have been an Olympic athlete had I just played sports on Sabbath....?" lol.

As for me, I guess I have to take it slow. I have a conservative personality to begin with, so I doubt I'll start wearing bling-bling. I do wear a wedding ring, but it's fairly plain. As for drinking, I've had wine with dinner, and the occasional cocktail, but I find that it's pretty much boring after that.

Anyone else?

Grace

ps: I feel uncomfortable even *writing* this. It still feels 'wrong' to even think about these things!
Hallanvaara
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Username: Hallanvaara

Post Number: 62
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

God gave us conscience and it is reliable when we keep our contact close to Jesus and pray. IĄm convinced that sin is no something individual thing. To me sin is anything your mind stucks and keeps your mind busy. ThatĄs something that leads you away from God.

I pierced my ear few years ago but I just wanted one and itĄs quite high in my earflap. My mother (strict SDA) was quite selective and approved necklace, rings, permanent waves in hair but didnĄt approve makeup and ear rings. Maybe it was my declaration of independence...
I wear makeup, ear ring, ring, necklace, dye my hair... Live my life but my mind doesnĄt keep busy with these things.

I also drink sometimes, dance sometimes, even play card sometimes....
As I said those things are individual things and they definitely donĄt draw me away from my close relationship to Jesus.

BTW. In OT is said about strong drinks like that:
Deut. 14:26. and spend the money for whatever you desire, oxen, or sheep, or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves; and you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

I think Bible doesnĄt nowhere deny wine from people. It just warned of unreasonable habits. Alcoholism is sin, it catches persons mind totally and for God there is no room anymore.

Grace, take it slow and do only things that you feel is ok. When we pray Lord talks to us through our conscience. Jesus gave us freedom and itĄs amazing freedom. Nobody can say to you anymore what is appropriate. ItĄs Jesus who rules now. Enjoy your freedom!

Tuija
Carol_2
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Username: Carol_2

Post Number: 161
Registered: 2-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 5:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Grace! I already had pierced ears (had been part of a more liberal SDA church,) but when I first left I had second holes put in each ear! Talk about a liberating feeling! After a few months the excitement wore off, and now I hardly ever wear earrings, but it sure felt good!

And like you Tuija, I will drink on occasion, and play cards, but one thing I cannot do is dance! And it's not because of my SDA background, it's because I have no rhythm! I have always regretted that I never learned to dance, and blame my SDA roots for that! I'm so jealous when I see people that can dance really well! It's beautiful and I sure wish I could do it, but I'm really two left feet.

Love and prayers to all!

Carol #2
Pw
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Username: Pw

Post Number: 39
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 7:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had my ears pierced...and I'm a dude! :>
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 714
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 7:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This pretty much doesn't apply to me. I was raised SDA. By age 11 and in the 5th grade I knew I would not be SDA, that it was the religion of my parents. I honestly did though at that young age still believe that whatever religion I chose to have when I was a grown up would be wonderful with my parents. I believed that because of the literature in our home, the discussions I heard and actual sermons preached about how SDA's are the #1 proponents of freedom of religion and SDA's were the main ones promoting freedom of religion. Whoa, I was wrong with those assumptions. But, for the other things, well, I'm kind of a not-in-your-face sort of person and have pretty much done what I've wanted to do. Only I just quietly do things. My favorite Bible text right now is Prov. 32:4-7. It reads, :"It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, or for rulers to desire stong drink; or they will drink and forget what has been decreed, and pervert the rights of all afflicted. (6) Give strong drink to one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress,(7) let them drink and forget their poverty, and remenber their misery no more.'' When my kid wants a beer he reads this text to me. I read this passage to my mon. I heard from her that this is only poetry and is not ment to be lived by and taken at face value. I think the SDA's have the knack of picking and choosing what texts and passages really mean what they say, I think the SDA's have that knack down to a science. I can read texts such as the one above to a SDA and still be told it dooesn't mean what it says. Go figure!
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 393
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 7:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't that the real bottom line? They don't trust the entirety of scripture, but only use it to the extent it supports their position. If it doesn't, it's discredited in some fashion. That's the bottom line in my former discussions with B. He does not trust the authority of the whole Bible, particularly the new testatment, but other passages as well. It is hierarchial in nature. Some is more valid than others. Without that common starting point, all discussions will lead to futility. I wish I had figured it out sooner.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 259
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 7:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grace,
God has blessed me with a very good sense of rhythm and I dance. I have been told I am a very good dancer. He let me know dancing was okay as long as it did not take anything from my relationship with Him. As long as the activity is not a salvation issue, I can take part in moderation. So I got my ears pierced, one hole only. Do not know if I will ever get a second. After all at my age (63)what would I do with 2 holes? My brothers tell me I do not look my age and my son tells me I do not act it. After all how does one of my advanced age act???
I tried drinking alcohol, long before I left the SDA church behind. I cannot partake of it as I like the stuff with sugar in it and sugar triggers my eating disorder. I have tasted a wine that was very good, but I do not know the name of it. It was very expensive because the friend who had it only bought the best. He is dead now.
As for what happened/did not happen in the past, you cannot live that over, but you can grieve it. When I graduated from college I wanted to go into the Air Force. I did not because SDAs did not volunteer for the military. When I had my son and he was 14 years of age, he joined the Civil Air Patrol and encouraged me to join. I was in my 12 step program at the time and I found then how I had felt about the military. I went through a grieving period over not going into the Air Force. So, do not be surprised if you do go through a grieving period for not being an Olympic athlete. It is legitimate grieving. Just acknowledge it as something you wanted to do and did not, for whatever the reasons, and God will help you get over it.
Remember, our God is an awesome God and can get us over anything that holds us back.
Diana
Raven
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Username: Raven

Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 8:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Being a lifer still transitioning out, and a life-long vegetarian, the first thing I did was eat fish and then chicken. I've known for years that Biblically there is nothing wrong with eating meat and that you couldn't have been a good Jew without eating meat, since that was part of the worship feasts and I think the priest had to eat a part of the sacrifice. However, it felt wrong for me because of how conservatively I had been raised. Suddenly, within a few weeks of deciding I'm transitioning out, it struck me that it wasn't wrong for me at all. However, it is a huge psychological hurdle; it tasted fine, but the thought of it was repulsive. That was a year ago and it's a little better now.

The biggest struggle I have is having a very overactive conscience that can't be trusted. I don't think I will ever have even a sip of alcohol. I also know there is no Biblical mandate to abstain from it, but I'm very afraid of losing control of my feelings or actions. It feels "wrong" to have fun.

It was also a huge issue for me when my grade school daughter recently begged to get her ears pierced. I've still not done that for me and don't plan to, but I realized that even though it seems wrong to poke a hole in a perfectly good body, that's just my brainwashing talking. So as of last week, my daughter got my permission and now has pierced ears. I also will never be able to dance--I have no rhythm and feel very self-conscious around social things "in the world". It will be interesting how things are a few years from now.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 426
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome, Raven! We're glad you're here!

Grace, I got my ears pierced shortly before I left the church. Wearing earrings is still my private, public statement of freedom. (It's odd how certain things become so symbolic for each of us!) Piercing my ears represented my break into freedom from Adentist restrictions, and I still feel as if I'm not completely dressed if I don't have earrings in.

I first tasted wine while I was still an Adventist, but it really didn't do anything for me, and I've never felt I wanted to drink. Richard said something really interesting the other day to someone about alcohol; he said that during his years as an Adventist, wine fascinated him. He thought about it a lot, and he really wanted to drink although he didn't. (He tried it a couple of times, but felt too guilty to drink.) Now, he said, since knowing Jesus, that fascination with alcohol is gone, and he no longer desires to drink. (Besides our feelings about alcohol, however, both of us agreed that we would not drink--even though we could now!--for personal reasons related to ministry and witness.) But I know wonderful Christ-followers whom I respect greatly who do drink wine with their meals.

The beauty of walking with the Spirit is that He convicts us of things individually that He knows we personally need to obey, and those personal disciplines do not look the same for every Christ-follower. The question I have to keep asking myeslf is, am I surrendering myself and my desires and plans to Jesus daily, allowing Him to be sovereign in my life?

Praise God that He completes the work He begins in us!

Colleen
Pheeki
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Username: Pheeki

Post Number: 354
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome to the Believer's Freedom...you have the freedom to be vegetarian if you want or to eat anything you want (all of it consecrated with prayer).

God loves you and didn't put things like wine, jewelry, food, sex, money, etc. on this earth to torment you...no, those were good things God provided that man (the devil) have made bad (by abusing them) or made people think they are bad.

You now have the freedom to enjoy God and His provisions without guilt because your Father owns this planet and everything in it!

Do not be afraid...the peace Jesus gives us is not as the world gives so do not let your heart be troubled and do not be afraid.

You are now an heir and privaledged to know the Father's (Master's) business...as a slave, you had no right to know the inner workings...but now you have been adopted and you have it all!

God bless you and don't let them drag you back into bondage, if the Son has set you free, you are free indeed!

What do you think the spies sent from James (jewish christians) were sent to spy on Paul, etc. about?

The Freedom we have in Christ!!!!!! Amen?
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 716
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

About SDA's? They sure do like the rules and regulations from such boos as Exadus, Dueteraime and Levitics. But, I sure can get their feathers ruffled when I begin reading passages from Proverbs and Song of Soloman. What is this? Some of the O.T. is to give us our standards but other parts of the O.T. seem almost like forbidden reading. I have to remid thm the entire Bible is given for our instrucion, not just certain parts.
Belvalew
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Username: Belvalew

Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is my initial posting. In response to the inquiry, my exit from SDAism was gradual. I drifted out in my mid-20's, went back to it when my children were small, then studied my way out for good.

I had my ears pierced in my mid-20's, and when I went back to SDAism for a brief period I had to be cleansed of all of the freedoms I had adopted. I rejoined a small church in the area, and since I had a fairly good knowledge of scripture they asked me to teach a sabbath-school class. When I agreed the pastor went to work on me removing my rings, earrings, make-up, and any other outward marks that didn't fit into the accepted SDA way of life. I was allowed to keep my wedding rings, however.

During the time I had been away from the church I had had the opportunity to learn more from "clean" scripture studies than I had really known. A little later on it was an SDA minister who helped me extricate myself from the writings of EGW by reminding me that the Bible teaching on clean/unclean foods was smack in the middle of the Levitical law. Praise God for that young man's willingness to ask probing questions.

Recently I attended my sister's memorial. She, too, had studied her way out. I like to think I was instrumental in that. Anyway, after the memorial a few of us went to her favorite restaurant, a good Mexican restaurant in her town. My niece, my brother and I all decided to order a pitcher of margaritas, and we asked for four glasses so we could pour out a margarita for my sister, then we drank to her memory. In attendance at the dinner were a couple of cousins who have seen me for years celebrating my freedom in Jesus, but have never seen me drink because I rarely do. Earlier, at the memorial I eulogized my dear sister and shared with those gathered a text, 2Cor. 4:16-18 that states that when this tent (mortal body) is destroyed we have a building (immortality) eternal in the heavens. Go ahead, look it up. The word "have" in that text is an active, now, type of word. It does not say "will have" it says "we have." I explained the text in just those terms. Saying that seemed to widen the eyes of the SDA's in attendance, but they still didn't understand my freedom until I drank a toast to my sister. At that point they started looking at each other and saying things like, well, I guess Belva's no longer a "practicing Adventist." For well over a decade I've been back in my make-up and jewelry, and attending a Sunday church, but that one drink "outed" me.

I know that we, as Christians, are not supposed to do things that might make another Christian who might be weaker in the faith to stumble. I thought long and hard before I joined my niece and brother in that tribute to my sister, but there are some things that simply must be joined in to. I'm still praying that I have not fowled up any good that I might have done for my SDA family members.

I still celebrate my freedom from such a controlling environment. I eat the way I choose, wear accessories as I see fit, celebrate Jesus on the proper day (Today), and if I'm at a celebration like a wedding, birthday, or as in the case recently, a funeral, I might drink a toast.

Belva
Pheeki
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Username: Pheeki

Post Number: 357
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't you think aceticism and puritanism and "don't taste, don't touch" are as much of a stumbling block, Belva?

Remember what the bible says, "Do not let that which is good be spoken of as evil." (paraphrased by pheeki).

I am sorry you lost your sister and I shed a tear when I read about you toasting her. I am sure she would have loved that!
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 430
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome, Belva! I like how you handled your cousins. I do believe that in some instances, one must practice his freedom in Christ right in front of the disapproving Adventists one might be close to. I don't think your abstinence would have bolstered their faith any more than I think your drinking a toast caused them to stumble. Remember, that caution was given to people who are believers. While I know some Adventists are true believers, many are not; they truly believe Adventism, but not the gospel. I'm not sure that restraining oneself from normal activities (i.e. turkey at Thanksgiving, etc.) has much impact on their faith in Christ. It mostly calls them to examine their Adventism and their willingness to accept or reject behaviors they don't practice.

Colleen
Carol_2
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Username: Carol_2

Post Number: 162
Registered: 2-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A warm welcome to Raven and Belva! I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say we look forward to hearing your histories and stories of your journeys out of SDAism.

Love and prayers to all,

Carol #2
Loneviking
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Username: Loneviking

Post Number: 268
Registered: 7-2000
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, a warm walcome to two more sisters who escaped! Someday I hope to meet you over Mexican food and a pitcher of Margaritas. Sure can't go wrong with that menu!

Bill
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 261
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raven and Belva,
Welcome to the forum. I will join you with the Mexican food. As for the margaritas, I can have a sip.
God bless the both of you.
Diana
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 262
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grace,
I forgot to write this in the above post.
I had my ears pierced this past March. It is symbolic of the freedom I have now that I have accepted Christ. I like to be coordinated with what I wear so I have earrings to match my bracelets, rings and necklaces. I do not have a lot of stuff, but enough to go with what I wear.
And, like I said in an earlier post, I like to dance. I hear music with the right rhythm and my legs and feet start moving before I tell them to move.
My parents let us dance at family gatherings as kids, so to dance before I left the SDA church was not a big thing to me.
Just develop your relationship with God. That is the most important thing to do.
Our God is awesome.
Diana
Raven
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Username: Raven

Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like what Diana said about the most important thing being developing your relationship with God. I certainly agree wholeheartedly, and have been amazed at how God has led thus far. My earlier post probably wasn't a great first effort, as it might look like my main goal is to change my externals to "the other side!" It just really struck a response in me, because most of my adult life, I have felt like I'm externally too conservative to fit in with non-SDA's, but too liberal theologically to fit in with SDA's. Don't know if I'll ever completely fit in somewhere, but I really do believe in being yourself as led by your relationship with God.
Dd
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Username: Dd

Post Number: 27
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amen Raven!

God is leading. We fit with HIM!!

Welcome to you and Belva.

Grace,
You hang in there too! We all must remember that the beginning of widom is the knowledge of God - Prov. 1:7, Job 28:12-28. God's knowledge of us can help us led a Godly life because God knows us so well. See Psalms 138:23,24. He's brought us this far and He will continue to lead us. We must listen to His voice instead of our "voices of the past"! Cheers to you dear sisters!!! And especially to PW, the dude! :-)

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