| Author | Message | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 42 Registered: 6-2004 |
I think that it's very clear that SDA members only follow certain guidelines that they consider to be convenient to live with. As there are closet meat eaters, I'm sure there are those who drink coffee, tea or cola in private (probably have to hid these items in their grocery carts in case someone sees it). So much for practicing what they preach! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 744 Registered: 11-2002 |
Colleen, You did nothing wrong. I think you got this uncomfortable feeling because that man put you in a compromising position. It is human nature to blame the person who catches another doing wrong rather than placing the right where it belongs-on yourself (in this case not you but the man who you caught). It's like blaming Ken Starr ecause e let the world know what a low-life Bill Clinton was. The man knew if you wanted to you could blab his secret all over town. I have a very close relative who spent his entire working year witha very high position working for the world conference of the SDA church. Most of his empoyment was in other countries, not the US or Canada, but the East or Europe. Several years ago at a family gathering he made one very breif comment. He said if he knew then what knows now he would never have gone to work for the church, he would have gotten employment in the private sector. I waited for him to elaberate but he said nothing further. | ||
| Hallanvaara Registered user Username: Hallanvaara Post Number: 70 Registered: 1-2004 |
Reading your posts make me think. Who they think they are fooling? People? Why? Holding up props? Do they think they can fool also God? Is it important to please other people more than God? It really makes me think where is the honest and staunch congregation. "Closet" meat eaters, coffee drinkers, cola drinkers, jewelry wearers, movie watchers.... What kind of life is that when you have to fool each other? Can you really enjoy Jesus when you have to live double life? Has Jesus even entered to a personsĄ life in this case? I wonder. Only what matters is God and only His opinion of me. I canĄt fool Him. No way. I sometimes even think are people stupid and they really think they can bluff God? Well, I have had so tough "schooling" about honesty and reliability that I canĄt stand at all any two-faces, hypocrisy and dishonesty. I just canĄt respect those kind of people. I have only one question to them: Why donĄt you be honest to God, to others and to yourself? Tuija | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 43 Registered: 6-2004 |
It's all about control. These people are living lies for the most part, yet they are trying to fool people into thinking they are perfect examples. To think you are gaining favor with God by following traditions of man is always a sure sign of a cult. The law is now written on our hearts and not in some book by EGW. | ||
| Ladylittle Registered user Username: Ladylittle Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2004 |
I think it may also in some cases be about fear. Many people try very hard to 'look' good because they think everyone else 'is' good, and they want to keep or make friends with them despite 'not being good enough'. By the time they realise that others are not as good as they look it has become a habit. 2 Corinthians 10:12 says "When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise", but it seems a natural thing to fall into! I believe our only safety is in looking to Jesus for ourselves, and pointing others to Him, though I definitely fall short of that often. I'm so thankful that Jesus is both the Author AND Finisher of our faith! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 463 Registered: 12-2003 |
Amen, Ladylittle! I know that all my growing-up years I heard teachers and SS teachers say that we had to look at Jesus, not people. In fact, that line is still one of the excuses I hear from staunch, conservative, loyal Adventists when they're confronted with the unpleasant truth of Adventism's two-facedness. The problem is that as an Adventist, that sentence, "Look to Jesus, not people" meant, "Jesus is perfect, and that's the standard you have to meet. Don't look to people, because they'll disappoint you." Even though the words, Look to Jesus, were right, they were used to mean we weren't to hold others accountable. We were just to look the other way and go on being good Adventists working on our sanctification--and of course we could expect our leaders, etc. to "mess up". After all, they're only human. We were to mind our own business and allow the corruption we glimpsed from time-to-time continue unchallenged, supported by our loyal attendance and tithe-paying because we were looking to Jesus, not humans. Now, "Look to Jesus" means something completely new. It really means letting go of EVERY loyalty, even our loyalty to our cherished beliefs and practices, and allowing Jesus to hold us personally accountable for ourselves. It means allowing His love and forgiveness to compel us to repent and to release our grip on our props and practices and to allow Him to change us. Now, looking to Jesus means I have a living, active, responsive Savior who interacts with me no matter what I'm going through instead of a "plastic" Jesus who stands before me as a Perfect Example which I need to emulate. Sometimes He leads me away from situations I think are vitally important to me. Sometmes He leads me out of relationships which He wants me to surrender to Him, allowing Him to deal with the other. Sometimes He leads me back into relationships in which I need to allow Him to love through me. Ladylittle, you're Corinthians quote is so right! And I know also that you're right about people often responding because of fear of not measuring up. The beauty of looking to Jesus now as opposed to the way I thought of it years ago is that if I look to Jesus instead of needing others' approval of me, I actually find a living Person who actively loves me! Looking to Jesus used to feel isolated and helpless, sort of like looking to an image. The skewed doctrines I was taught kept me from understanding that Jesus was notjust a transcendent Person with expectations but an intimate companion, Father, Brother, Friend. Wow, what a difference when Jesus takes the veil away! Colleen | ||
| Ladylittle Registered user Username: Ladylittle Post Number: 27 Registered: 4-2004 |
Yes, Colleen! I was speaking of looking to Jesus as the one who has our lives in His hands, loves us dearly, and has promised to finish the work he's begun in us. Of looking to Jesus and trusting him instead of obsessing about ourselves or our neighbors and how we measure up. I could have been clearer! Mary | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 748 Registered: 11-2002 |
The VOP and oter independent ministries of the SDA church, The Quiet Hour, FFT, etc. often hold their high stakes donor parties annually at very nice motels. The SDA's I know who get the private invitations to these functions love it because the rooms have coffee pots so they can have their coffee in the privacy of their own rooms. Not to mention at these nicer motels one can order in room movies and room service with all sorts of forbidden goodies to enjoy. However, at the VOP meeting down in Thousand Oaks I've gone to several times, it is a one day affair on a Saturday they serve vegeburgers. Yummmy, I love a good vegeberger. They have this shingdig at the SDA media center. It, too is by invitation. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 296 Registered: 3-2004 |
In the few years before I decided not to rejoin the SDA church I often saw that the SDA could not admit they had a problem. It was unthinkable to admit it and now I see why. It would show that they were not perfect. This is what I noticed after I was in my 12 step program. I never did understand that until now. So thanks Mary and Colleen for clearing that up for me. It is so good that we have such an awesome God who knows we are not perfect on our own. We are only perfect through Jesus. Diana | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 366 Registered: 1-2003 |
Well, the SDA had their big convention for the fund raising people of the church this weekend and it was at this new hotel that is so extravagant I cannot imagine how they could afford it...probably off of some little old ladies farm she left to "finish the work" of the SDA church instead of leaving her farm to her kids. I know my mother's parents left everything to the chruch and their 3 kids got nothing. Still, how can they reconcile spending so much on a meeting? Big dinner with entertainment, etc.? | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 46 Registered: 6-2004 |
Boy, speaking of wills. The SDA's are really big on making sure that their own special brand of lawyers are available for SDA's to leave a decent amount to their adminstration. I did have a will drawn up by one of their tricky people and he made sure I was going to leave a decent amount (at least 20%) for them. I wonder if they get a commission for manipulating people into donating their money to the SDA instead of their own family. Thankfully I had a new will drawn up and excluded the leeches. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 749 Registered: 11-2002 |
My parents had two of the SDA estate planners come out. I was there while these planners were trying to hussle my parents. The first thing they did was insist on someone from their own group to do the property value assessment. My parents kept saying thy wanted to get several estiments from independent sources. They said, no, their own assessors do the assments and then the church gets at least 20% of the assessed value adjusted over time for inflation but if there is a decrease in property value then there will be no decrease in the amount the church gets, the church will then go by the origional assessment which was done by church assors. My parents told those goons to be gone and don't come back. Now about not showing emotions, etc. and miserable people. I know a lady who was converted to Adventism around 40 years ago. She was probably in her early 30's then. She is still SDA. She onced remarked to a mutual friend that she's always wished God wouldn't have led her to the truth because she was so much happier before learning the truth. I think she'd been Baptist, maybe Congreational, she did attend a Christian church. God sucked into Adventism at a Revelation Seminar. My friend asked her how come she stayed SDA if she was so much more happy brfore. She said she could never leave the truth. I don't know about you out there in Internetland, but I don't believe God will lead us into misery. Even the martyers had the peace of Jesus in their hearts, right while they were sffering so greatly. In this same conversation this lady had said, "It is so hard to have to be perfect all the time". Yet she stays. I frankly could care leass about the corny doctrines. It's this total committment, the total control that makes me think of the SDA religion as a cult. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 123 Registered: 4-2000 |
In our case, my elderly SDA mother-in-law excluded us from her will--everything will go the Conference. My wife is her only child--legally adopted at birth. Oh yes, a token amount of $700.00 comes to us. This small amount will presumably insure that there will be no contesting of her will. Technically and/or legally, we can't say that we are excluded from her will. Evidently, the Conference legal team felt this $700.00 was a wise investment on their part to avoid our possibly challenging her will in court. With the investigative judgment still in effect long after her death, this makes her salvation more probable as well (smile). The idea is to have your financial investments in the SDA Church--not in your children that may cause you to lose your salvation if the money was not spent in an EGW-approved manner. Apparently, Sylvia and I have already been judged and found wanting (a pre-investigative judgment). The good news is that our Heavenly Father doesn't treat his family like this. He doesn't manipulate things to enable his throwing us out of his wonderful family. Praise God, we have eternal security in Jesus Christ! He faithfully keeps (preserves) us! Importantly, God never unadopts us (once saved, always certain)! In awe of Calvary, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 16 Registered: 7-2004 |
Oh, now you've gotten into a subject I can rant on. My parents never had very much, just a house full of kids, but they set up their will through the SDA church. The Conference Academy was to get 20%, and the remainder was to be equally divided amongst their kids, or if their kids were not faithful SDAs they were thinking of skipping a generation and giving to any grandchildren there might be. Anyway, my father passed first, then nine years later my mother. The representative from the estate services drove 300 miles to attend Mom's funeral, mainly to be sure none of us made of with any valuables. The estate was put through probate and the house sold. The proceeds were distributed in accordance with the SDA will, but there was still an undeveloped piece of property that it was agreed we would hold on to to see if it would build in value. As my parent's appointed executor I got to pay the taxes for the next 13 years. Last year we finally sold the property to the conference for a ridiculously low price and it was disbursed as the sale of the house had been. Here is the kicker--my parents had stipulated that the 20% was to be made available to the Academy my siblings and I had attended. As the executor last year I once again mentioned that I knew that was my parents' wish, and was assured they were doing things as my parents had stipulated in the will. A couple of months ago I learned that the Academy had been closed down a year before my discussion with their attorney took place. He lied through his teeth to me. I'm not really surprised, but disappointed. I had the good fortune of knowing some good pastors and faithful teachers, but I have no respect for those in positions of power. Belva | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 301 Registered: 3-2004 |
I thank you for bringing up the subject of wills. I made out my will before I left VA and gave the SDA church half of whatever my estate is and my son the other half. I am changing it immediately. I will be giving everything to my son. I do not want to give that institution anything of mine. They have had their share of my money through the deception of tithing. Thank God for this forum and the other web sites that talk of the cultic beliefs of the SDA church. God is awesome. Diana | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 49 Registered: 6-2004 |
I don't have a problem with leaving a certain amount to a church (not the SDA, of course) if you are able, but if you have a family in need, then they should come first. After all, it clearly says in the Bible that one who does not provide for his family is worse than an unbeliever. So sad to see people rather give their money to a board of directors to spend on luxury accomodations rather than helping their family or children with bills. | ||
| Doug_s Registered user Username: Doug_s Post Number: 35 Registered: 7-2004 |
A few years back a conference representative, I guess an estate planner, came to see us. We needed have a will drawn up and found out that the conference could do it for us. Of course they would, they expected to get something out of it. Well,they got nothing from us. We told him that our family was first priority. He kept mentioning that the church usually gets something in these arrangements. We told him we gave plenty to the church as it was and this will was for our children. Pw, I agree with you. I'm sure there a plenty of folks out there with surplus cash to leave to their church of choice. I just don't happen to be one of them. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 755 Registered: 11-2002 |
This subject is a very sore spot with me. I will not at this time go into detales but I will say it's not appearing it will be like I was always told growing up it would someday be. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 471 Registered: 12-2003 |
I have not seen the quote myself, but I'm told that EGW herself cautioned people against leaving money to apostate children because they would use it against God's cause. Really, I'm convinced that Adventism is really a business; the church-y exterior is the way they attract "customers". It's real purpose is to make financially comfortable lives for people who enjoy power in a small venue--and those "customers" are the main source of profit! I'm afraid the above paragraph sounds bitter, but I want to say I do not feel bitter at all. I do, however, feel passionate about making the truth known. That conclusion is one I came to after following the Robert Folkenberg debacle about 4-5 years ago for Adventist Today. The sincere folks in the pews do not really know what they support or how they're being used. The deception does not stop with doctrine. Praise God for truth and for drawing those who want truth to Himself! Colleen | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 56 Registered: 6-2004 |
That's a good point. Usually Christian churches will show the congregation a finance report on what the funds are being used for. But I don't recall the SDA ever giving their members any idea on where the money goes. My guess it heads straight into the main headquarters and then a small portion gets distributed to various churches while the rest lines the pockets of the board of directors. Some ministry that is. |
