| Author | Message | ||
| Hallanvaara Registered user Username: Hallanvaara Post Number: 54 Registered: 1-2004 |
Talking about interesting web sites... Is PFO (Personal Freedom Outreach) familiar to you? It seems to be written by true christians and they have excellent articles about christian life, Old and New Covenant etc. and to various phenomenons like Benny Hinn, Mary Baxter, Harry Potter-books etc... It¥s a pity that all their links/articles don¥t open. They seem to have a study about Great Controversy and that doesn¥t open. This is link to their pages: http://www.pfo.org/qjournal.htm Tuija | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 29 Registered: 5-2004 |
Talking about prophecy...have any of you read "A Woman Rides the Beast" by Dave Hunt? My SDA father-in-law gave it to us to read when we tried to bring up that we had issues with SDA explanation of prophecy. He's a very wonderful SDA man...and has a good understanding of grace (as good as you can have when you tie it with the law I guess). We were arguing the specific point that the last beast is the US as SDA's claim. Anyway. He gave me this book and it's non-SDA and about the Roman Catholic church. Anyway, so far I'm finding it so insightful and he wrote a goose-bump raising chapter on the jews and their denial of the messiah and then all the scriptural proof that Jesus WAS the Messiah and that He came at the exact moment in time that he had to in order to fulfill prophecy. Anyway. So far, i have no bones to pick with him, and think it's an excellent book...at least for a compare of viewpoints. Let me know if anyone has any thoughts. Oh, and btw I don't find that it supports the SDA viewpoint all that much. Sda's don't agree that Jerusalem will matter anymore. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 406 Registered: 12-2003 |
I agree with Dd and Tuija above; the prophecies scared me, and my fear of having one unconfessed sin and of not making through the terrifying Time of Trouble (or even of making it through but having to go through it, running and hiding for my life WITHOUT A MEDIATOR) really messed with my head during my childhood and teen years. Esther, I haven't read the book, although I've definitely heard of it! (I know, hearing doesn't count!) Your mention of Jerusalem reminds me of an interesting fact which I had heard before but had forgotten until last Sunday when I noticed the note in my NIV Study Bible during church: the mountain where Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac and found the ram instead is the place that became the temple mount in Jerusalem. I'm increasingly struck that God is the author of symbol and metaphor. How amazing that from His call on Abraham's life until today, that mountain has been a central point of action or attention. I think Adventists have been remarkably blind to the prophetic significance of Jerusalem. God does nothing randomly; his choice of Mt. Moriah for Abraham's sacrifce and later for the contruction of the temple on it combined with the prophecies of Jerusalem for the future seem significant to me. God does reveal things symbolically to us so we will know, in a big picture sort of way, what is happening and what He is doing. Colleen | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2000 |
Tuija, Dd, Esther and Colleen, I'm first going to say this about me. In reading my posts above it seems that my fingers did not want to type out the word "pan...,,,,the word "pan...,,,ummm the word "Pain." There! I did it!  So my apologies. Tuija, I'm very happy to hear that you read all kinds of things about prophecy also. And I'm especially thankful to you for saying this: "That¥s what Jesus said we should do. Don¥t sleep, be alert because the big delusion is coming and even the selected ones can be deceived. Stay close to Jesus and read Bible. We are safe with Him." I say AMEN to that. We absolutely need to know what is ahead of us and infact even Jesus Himself referred back to Daniel. He also talks about the last days to the disciples and us in Matthew 24. Infact, all through the Gospels, Jesus Christ of Nazareth is quoting prophecy as He's fulfilling it and also telling of what's to come to the disciples and us. So if our Lord God found it useful and infact needful, then as Scripture says "A servant is not above his Master." Also in the book of Revelation, that book is given to us, the Church, by God Himself so we can know what to watch for. Revelation was not given to the unbelievers but to the 7 Churches. And ALL Scripture is God Breathed and we are to read everything that pertains to the New Covenant Church. This of course includes Revelation and many other books in the New Testament AND Old Testament that talk about prophecy. Otherwise we'de have a pretty thin Bible, now wouldn't we. Can you imagine how small the Bible would be if we threw out all the prophecies? I've never heard of that PFO site but it sounds like it would have been a good one if those links worked. Thank you for your input and if you find any other sites that may be interesting, please post, will you? I'll be watching this thread incase you do find some good ones. Blessings! Dd, Prophecy is very exciting to me and it seems like from the very beginning of my Christian walk, I've been drawn to prophecy so I thank you for your encouragement that you gave. I'll pray that one day you won't be so frightened by the prophecies because really they are exciting once you are grounded in the Gospel. God Bless you. Esther, I haven't read that book by Dave Hunt but it looks like it's one of those that would capture my interest. Thank you for the tip! May God Bless you also. Colleen, Yes it is amazing how God shows us how He's is using Mt. Moriah in a big big way! All of a sudden, things start taking on a whole new look once we see how He works all this out and we start getting a glimpse of the big picture. And you're sadly right about adventists taking no interest in Jerusalem. Jerusalem is also one of those,,well Israel in general was and is one of those things I was immediately drawn to watch upon conversion. It's amazing how they are so small and yet in the headlines everyday, isn't it? God is Grand! As a side, I can imagine the look on your face while reading my "birth pang" spelling. Ahem, no real excuse but then again a real excuse. It's called Atrophy of the brain and it is clearly affecting my ability in some of the smallest of things and some major things. But it should have at least brought a teachers 'worst nightmare as far as spelling' ::hehehe:: or someone else's 'laughter.' Right? Hopefully it didn't bring 'pity.' Yuk! If my typos bring on emotions that can haunt a teacher (said in a jesting-- Course you probably already knew that since you know me) or someone else's 'laughter,' then not all was lost! <grin>. God Bless all of you and thank you for your input, even to those who have no interest in prophecy. Denise P.S. I keep feeling like i've missed someone so after tonight when my brain is once again prepared to think half way straight, methinks to be back here and read the posts again to be sure I haven't missed anyone. Nite all. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 435 Registered: 12-2003 |
Denise, somehow "birth pangs" made sense and didn't even cause me to raise my eyebrow! Just to show you how sensible your slip was compared to things I saw teaching, I'll share here a few sentences from vocabulary tests I gave over the past two or three years. I'll first type the vocabulary word, then I'll type the sentece the student wrote in which he was supposed to use the word correctly: Disheveled: He had disheveled his head with thoughts. Discourse: Dis course of English isn't easy. Thwart: I got a thwart from touching a frog. Disapprobation: The probation officer put him on disapprobation for being good. Akimbo: Akimbo is a new form of the limbo. And one of my personal favorites: Connundrums: I played the connundrums in the school band. Hey, "birth pangs" seem fine to me! Colleen | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2000 |
Dear Colleen, You made me laugh with those sentences of those dear children. However, this one: "Disheveled: He had disheveled his head with thoughts" made alot of sense to me. I can relate! Or it could be a new definition of "insanity." Thank you, I needed the chuckle. Annnnd might I add that your sentence here: """I'll first type the vocabulary word, then I'll type the sentece the student wrote in which he was supposed to use the word correctly:""",,,, REALLY made me chuckle!! Now Colleen, you should have known that one was coming! (it's s-e-n-t-e-n-c-e not s-e-n-t-e-c-e) <snicker>..I just couldn't help me. It's fun to be back here and hopefully I'll be able to be an active participant once again on this board because I've really missed the interaction. Moments of clarity have and do interupt my life more than I care for. I could use and infact covet your prayers Colleen and anyone else who may find it in their heart to pray that these moments of clarity are more often than they have been for some months now. I'm not asking for healing, just more moments of clarity so please keep that in mind while praying for me will you? Thank you and May God Bless you all very much for the prayers. In Christ Jesus Name, this I ask. amen. Denise, the discombobulated disheveled mind ::true story!:: | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2000 |
Dear Diana, I did forget someone afterall..you  ...I'm sorry. You said something that makes my heart sing by the way. You said this: "Praise the Lord. He is awesome." Isn't He though? You have a loud AMEN on this end for those words that came from your heart! I'm so very happy for you that you are no longer being indoctrinated with EGW. Infact, for me, it still likes to take a grip now and then and I have to quickly realize "AH NO! I'm doing it again!" Amazing sometimes how indoctrinated we were isn't it? Praise God that you and everyone on this board are now seeing the True LIGHT from God! Blessings to you and your household Diana and keep on Praising the Lord for He inhabits the praises of your lips! Denise, sometimes confused, sometimes not...hmmm. I need your prayers if you find it in your heart to do so. May God Bless you abundantly with HIS Truth. In Christ Jesus Name, this I pray for you. amen. | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2000 |
Yes, it's me once again. In re-reading one of my posts tonight I spotted this line of mine: ""Moments of clarity have and do interupt my life more than I care for."" Now you have to admit, this takes the cake!! Oh boy am I laughing at me now. What I meant to portray were the "moments of NO clarity...." Wow, well Colleen, you can add that sentence to your list! That has to be one of my best bloopers yet! And I'm laughing so hard over that sentence of mine now. Colleen, feel free to use it but pleeeeze don't give away the author (as if nobody reads this site....oh denise denise, what doth thou thinketh?) Okay, I'm off (boy am I off!) to read my mail. Nite all. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 268 Registered: 3-2004 |
Denisegilmore, I cannot help but praise God and tell Him He is so awesome. He is not understandable, but that is okay as he understands each one of us. To love me, this puny sinner in this world of sin and especially here in Las Vegas, God still chose me and loves me and forgave me for all my sins. He sees something in me that I am just beginning to see, as He opens my eyes and I am so grateful . So, Denise, I will remember you in my prayers. God, come close to Denise and fill her with the Holy Spirit so that she might do what you have her on this earth to do. Be with her loved ones. And thank you for another friend. You truly are awesome God. Thank you. AMEN Diana | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2000 |
I know, I know. But it just occurred to me that I could write good Church Bulletins! What a concept...maybe that's my calling afterall! | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2000 |
Dear Diana, We must have been posting at the same time as my Church bulletin post was to be under my last post so please don't take it wrong. You have said many things in your post that I'd like to comment on because they are so beautiful Diana. Here's one: "To love me, this puny sinner in this world of sin..." Not only does He love you Diana, He died for you! Scripture tells us that He died for the "un-godly" And then He came back alive in 3 days and promised you a Great Hope! Isn't this wonderful! I get so excited, can you tell? Ah no, my friend. Jesus didn't come to save the righteous but the "sinners." Jesus Himself says that. That's in Scripture and that was you, me, infact that's all of us. He's coming again so you can live with Him for Eternity! Now THAT'S exciting! Then you and I will meet each other also! and this: "He sees something in me that I am just beginning to see, as He opens my eyes and I am so grateful." In that statement alone there are some very wonderful Truths that our Lord has and is showing you! See, our Lord Jesus Christ not only sees something in you but He "foreordained" you to be HIS! Read the book of Ephesians for starters and you will see the Truth of this. It's very exciting and beyond our comprehension how Mighty our God Truly does reveal how He planned you to be His all along! But as with each of us, this is what He had planned before the creation of the world. Amazing isn't it? "....that I am just beginning to see" Ah! Now there it is, you are beginning to see your rightful standing and position with our Lord Jesus! We are "saints," "ambassadors of Jesus Christ," and so much more. We are "the children of God Himself!" Jesus Christ sees you as not only Justified in Him but Sanctified and Glorified in Him also! We are currently seated in Heavenly Realms. And at the same time, we are being Sanctified by the Holy Spirit and will be Glorified upon our Lords Second Coming. Quite the paradox, yet it is all Scripture and I will find those Scriptures and post them here for you to read. At present my memory does not allow me to retrieve Scripture from memory as it used to but not to worry, God left us a Wonderful Letter. The Bible. So I will most definitely post those Scriptures for you and you can then read them in context. Isn't this exciting!? ".....as He opens my eyes and I am so grateful." A couple of Truths come out in that beautiful statement as well! First, you give God the Glory for opening your eyes and also at the same time you were Graced by God Himself to be able to reckognize this! Now there's a thought, no? Next, your heart shines with "Gratitude." One of the earmarks of a True Saint is Gratitude. Without this Gratitude, of which God has bestowed upon you with all of His special Blessings poured out like golden rain from Heaven upon your heart, how happy would you be? Oh Diana, you are very special in the Eyes of the Lord. He's Shining all over and through your words! Now I'm praising God for His Wonderful Goodness to me! He is showing me His Power (Dunamis) through you and surely we all need as much of this sort of Blessing from God Himself as we can lay our eyes, ears, or thoughts upon. Rest your heart, for God Himself has hand picked you to be His and for Him to be yours. I cannot dare to venture upon typing out how my heart is leaping with joy at present. It would be of such length that it would be a scroll 1500 miles long! Because of God Almighty, our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, we both have been blessed by the one and same God this very night! Praise the Lord! and then Praise Him some more! May He continue to Bless you and then me through you in such a perfect manner as this. How shall we ever be able to thank Him? Blessings forever to you my friend and sister in Christ our Lord God. Denise, your sister and friend in Jesus, the Christ. P.S. I'll be back, God willing, tomorrow night with Scripture at the ready! | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2000 |
Dear Diana, 9:21pm was my last post on the "Moments of Clarity" (MOC) before the "Church Bulletin" (CB) post. 11:09pm is showing that CB post and I don't know why as I directly posted the CB post (after many slowing downs, cuttings outs, etc. etc. etc. (the "king and i" movie) after the MOC post. These are the differences in my post before Diana's and my CB post. Yet I had typed the 11:09pm CB post out directly after my 9:21pm MOC post. THIS explains why my computer kept cutting out and wouldn't post and cutting out some more, then slowing wayyyyyy down and not posting etc. etc. etc. (the "king and i" movie). Yet, it did post long before 11:09pm according to my computer. It posted right after the slowing down, cutting out, not posting part which should have taken approximately 10-15 minutes only. Hmmmm, strange things a happening here. UNLESS.."I'm" the one that kept cutting out, slowing wayyyy down etc. etc. etc. (the "king and i" movie). Ya know, i wouldn't put this second scenerio out of the picture due to my brain these days. Truly though, when I did post the CB post, I did not see your post whatsoever Diana so it looks terrible up there. It looks like I'm saying "I know, I know" to you! Yipes! I wasn't and hopefully you will know that once you get to know me. I'm glad to meet you by the way! And hopefully also you will read this tonight. God Bless you a whole lot! Denise, the disheveled mind lady | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2000 |
Oh and Diana, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRAYERS* May God Bless you. Denise | ||
| Hallanvaara Registered user Username: Hallanvaara Post Number: 64 Registered: 1-2004 |
Denise, I will post new sites here when I find them. I "comb" the Internet continuously to find sites like PFO. The link isn¥t active here (how you can attach here a working link?) but it should work when you paint it here, copy it and paste it on the address line -> enter. Or old fashioned way: just write it. I have noticed that in Internet you can find almost anything that is called "prophesies". Some are quite wild and made no sense at all. It makes me time after time wonder how amazing person¥s mind and brain are. How in earth they can create that kind of stuff? Well, as I said, keep your eyes open and stay close to Jesus. Btw, do you feel His presence, that He has took His place inside you? I am amazed how His presence is so clear to me. My inside has changed totally. I maybe am as vivid as before and nothing has changed externally but that unspeakable feeling of freedom, peace, rest and joy fills me from head to toe. I certainly feel that I¥m a new creation. Tuija | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2000 |
Dear Tuija, Yes I have the Joy in my heart and the Peace, Rest and Freedom that Jesus Christ merited for us. Also as well, I have His Spirit confirming with my spirit that I am a child of God. And my heart praises God for this Gift! As to links, they don't show up blue here but you can cut and paste them here and they will show in black and white on this board but all I or anyone else has to do is cut and paste those into our address bars and click 'go' and we can get there. Now, speaking of all the different sites on prophecy on the internet, here's the front page of one site I'm about to check into. I've not yet looked into the site itself but this front page alone captured my interest. Here it is with the link following: ------------------------------------------------ ""When Godís people neglect His truth, they soon drift back to earth-centered religions. ìWhen you have eaten and are satisfied, praise the Lord your God for the good land He has given you. Be careful that you do not forget... Otherwise... your heart will become proud.... You may say to yourself, 'My power and the strength of my hands have produced this wealth for me.' ì...If you ever forget the Lord your God and follow other gods... you will surely be destroyed.î (Deut. 8:10-20) 1. Christianity. America was built on Judeo-Christian beliefs. Her founding fathers (even the Deists and Unitarians) recognized God as Lord. They believed in the inherent wisdom in His Word and agreed to base national laws and education on its eternal principles. But power and prosperity led to apathy and compromise. In spite of Godís repeated warnings, people attributed Americaís achievements to human intelligence rather than Godís grace. Instead of thanking Him for His blessings, many ignored His Word, rejected His guidelines, and said, ìI want to go my own way.î ìYou have eaten the fruit of deceptionÖ you have depended on your own strength...î (Hosea 10:13) ìHe who trusts in himself is a fool...î (Prov. 28:26) ìHelp, 0 Lord, for the godly are no more... May the Lord cut of all flattering lips and every boastful tongue that says, ëWe... own our lips - who is our master?î (Psalm 12:4) 2. Humanism. This stage of the slide has always served as a bridge between Biblical faith and paganism. Turning manís focus from God to self, it blinds people to truth and opens their mind to deception. In the early sixties, America banned prayer and Bible reading from public schools, while humanist leaders persuaded gullible followers that God was a myth and man reigned supreme. But disillusioned seekers soon realized that humanism alone failed to satisfy their dreams. A spiritual vacuum had created fresh hunger for supernatural power. They were ready to try anything, except true Christianity, to gain spiritual power. ìFor the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.î (2 Tim. 4:3-4) 3. New Age. The New Age movement promised spiritual power to self-focused seekers. Blending Eastern mysticism, an inflated view of human potential, and a fascination with ìthe force,î it permitted man to be his own god - or to create a ìbetterî god. Free to experiment with mind-altering techniques and occult formulas, man alone would master his fate. But God made people with a need for relationships, and an impersonal force cannot quench the thirst for spiritual oneness and personal encounters. By the start of the nineties, seductive New Age influences had desensitized America to occult formulas. People were now ready to embrace Satanís time-proven alternatives to God: the personified deities of the worldís earth-centered religions. "For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the Fountain of living waters, and hewn themselves cisternsóbroken cisterns that can hold no water." (Jeremiah 2:13) ìAlthough they claimed to be wise, they became fools... They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator... He gave them over to a depraved mind.Öî Romans 1:25-29) 4. Neo-paganism. ìHuman administration of the universeÖ is far too great a task... What we need... is the sensitivity to understand and respond to the psychic energiesÖ. This is the ultimate wisdom of tribal peoples,î wrote Thomas Berry in the Dream of the Earth, a Sierra Club book instrumental in turning humanists like Norman Lear from atheism to earth-based spirituality. Today multitudes are trading reality for fantasy, facts for lies, and Godís promises for pagan dreams. Disguised as angels, animal spirits, wise guides or extraterrestrials, occult spirits communicate a common message: God is in everyone. All is one! Celebrate one another. Pursue unity and solidarity. Create a better world! (See Chapter 10, A Twist of Faith) It sounds so good--so Christian. How could it be false? ìThe whole world is under the sway of the evil one.î 1 John 5:19 ìIn later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.î (1 Tim. 4:1) 5. Babylonian paganism. Demons win converts by accommodating foolish human demands, but they soon control their victims. The torments that always characterized pagan civilizations were first documented in ancient Sumeria, Babylon and Canaan. The same oppressions are beginning to erode the idealistic facades of todayís neo-paganism. Out of the resulting tide of violence, perversion, chaos and fear springs a desperate cry for order and safety. ìThe coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth...î (2 Thess. 2:9) 6. Global dominion. The Old Testament shows that in times of rebellion and idolatry, God withdrew His protection from the land He loved (Nu. 14:9; Mic. 1:11; lsaiah 22:8-9; Deut. 8:6-20, 31:17; Ezra 8:22; 1 Cor. 10:1-11) and allowed enemies to enslave His rebellious people (Deut. 11 and 28). Both Old and New Testament prophets warn us that the final ìday of the Lordî will bring unprecedented terrors under a global tyrant controlled and empowered by Satan. ìThe beast... was given power to make war against the saints... All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life... (The second beast] forced everyone.., to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark...î Rev. 13:7, 16 Only God knows when this last step will become reality, but according to Revelation 13 and 17, it will happen - after a worldwide revival of Babylonian paganism. (See Revelation 17:5-17) ìLearn this parable from the fig tree,î said Jesus after telling His disciples about end time events (wars, famines, persecution, false prophets, lawlessness, apostasy, worldwide evangelism...) ìWhen its branch... puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near, at the very doors... Watch therefore...î (Matthew 24:32-33, 42) End time events fit the same Biblical patterns demonstrated in Old Testament history. Then as now, those who turned from truth to ìother gods,î faced devastating consequences. The book of Judges shows the oft-repeated cycle: 1. Peace and prosperity: God's gifts to the people He loved. 2. Apathy and compromise: They took His gifts for granted and forgot to thank Him. 3. Rebellion (humanism) and paganism: They traded God for other sources of strength. "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft." (1 Samuel 15:23) 4. Famine, war, plagues and slavery: Showing the people the inadequacy of their own resources, God would bring them back to Himself. 5. Confession and repentance: The people recognized their need for God. 6. God hears, saves and restores: He blesses His people with peace -- as long as they follow Him. When they turn to other gods, He stands back and waits. This cycle applies not only to Old Testament times. God warned us that we could face similar destruction: ìThese things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.î (1 Cor. 10:6-10) Yet, our times are different. The vast communication network for occult indoctrination, the proliferation of spiritual counterfeits, the acceleration of demonic activity, and todayís ignorance of occult dangers have set the stage for potential unprecedented evils. In light of Biblical prophecy, the above cycle could soon become a downward spiral leading to persecution and the cruel reign of the antichrist. But those who know God need not be afraid. While we await His coming, our King offers spiritual protection and ultimate victory to all who trust and follow Him. So let us wear the whole Armor of God (Eph. 6:10-18), stand firm in Jesus Christ together, and ìrun with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus.Öî (Hebrews 12:2-3) He has promised us, "If God is for us, who can be against us? ... Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? "... in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:31-39"" ================================================ Now, that captured my interest so I'm about to take a peak into this site now. That site is here: www.crossroad.to/charts/SpiritualSlide.html Blessings on your search! Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2000 |
Dear Diana, I haven't forgotten to post those Scriptures and will. Tonight is probably not the night but it is forthcoming and I truly hope you are uplifted by what Scriptures I do post. And please please read them in context to gather the full cluster of grapes out of God's Manna to us! He is so Wonderful to us and I'm praying you are looking forward to those Scriptures. Love to you in Christ our Lord, Denise | ||
| Hallanvaara Registered user Username: Hallanvaara Post Number: 66 Registered: 1-2004 |
Denise, interesting site indeed. I check that later. New Age is a very big deceitful religion. It mixes up christianity, eastern religions, teosofism and spiritualism. I think through that could come the biggest delusion which Revelation prophesied. People are today so clever and full of self consciouness that pure christianity doesn¥t fit into their life style. New age offers "wisdom and mysticism and self control" which is what people today want. I noticed one interesting thing. New Age is talking about the time of Aquarius and some think it has began and some think it began soon. Time before Aquarius were Pisces which began when Christ was born. And you may remember that a fish was early christian¥s symbol (for example lutherans still use it). It¥s considered that when we go to time of Aquarius the new era is beginning. People don¥t need Christian faith anymore. They want an intelligent attitude to life, self control and they want find divinity inside of themselves. And New Age offers that. It offers something to everybody. We sure have to be alert and watch out delusions. Tuija | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2000 |
Tuija, The site above is a great site as I've just discovered. And you are so right when you talk about this new age stuff and the age of aquarius. It is upon us and we really do need to be alert. Also it addresses the Harry Potter movies and novels and much much more on the home page that is posted at the bottom of this post. A great source for everyone to read, to be sure. I agree with everything you said in your post. Absolutely everything. This is great to be able to converse with another about all of this! Praise God with me Tuija, let's praise Him together that He has seen to it that we have one another to speak with about all of this. Now perhaps others too will see what is transpiring in this world and know to be "alert." May God Bless you and your household. In Christ Jesus Name. This i pray. amen. P.S. How I ended up on that page above is beyond me considering I hadn't yet realized it's not the home page. But you will find that it talks about Clinton and others and their new age agenda and when this all started. Here's the home page, please check this all out because this is precisely as I believe to be the truth and have seen it in operation for some time now. I'm so glad that God opened my eyes a few years back to lead me this far! Here you go and I just know you will find much useful information on this site. Home page here: http://www.crossroad.to/index.html | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2000 |
This goes along with the Action Alert Thread as far as the internet goes. But this only helps confirm whatever wasn't read by some. Here it is and this was posted in January 2004: -------------------------------------------------- ""THE U.N. PLAN TO TAKE OVER THE INTERNET Contender Ministries Posted: January 10, 2004 The Internet was born out of a U.S. military project to ensure reliable communications in the event of nuclear war, and it has been nurtured in the public domain for over a decade without any guiding political hand. So why now does the UN want to put it under the control of a global body and subject it to international law and guidelines? Because free speech and expression by all is a serious threat to their goals. How can the globalists silence Christians, conservatives, and people who donít like them, as theyíve done in schools and the media, if they donít have control? They canít. So, the UN mission to control the Internet has begun. The World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) was held in Geneva at the beginning of December, 2003, to discuss and draw up a plan for putting the Internet under United Nations control by 2005. More than 6,000 delegates representing 61 states and government organizations were in attendance for the summit. The summitís goal was to achieve a consensus on a draft declaration of principles and draft plan of action for UN governance of the Internet, and make plans for the second phase of the summit to be held in Tunis. Countries like China, Egypt, Syria and Vietnam are lobbying furiously to wrest control of the Internet from the United States. In some of these countries you can get killed or thrown in jail for sending the wrong e-mail or visiting the wrong website. Leading the effort is China, which allows its own citizens online access only with government surveillance. The UN puts countries like Libya in charge of the Commission on Human Rights, and this is really who we want running our Internet and overseeing our surfing activities? We all know what Libya and other Islamic nations would consider a violation of human rights. The French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin has also called for ìinternational rulesî overseen by the United Nations to govern the Internet. Raffarin said at the WSIS meeting, ìFor France, the UN is the major source of international rights, which must ensure peace and development. That also concerns the information society. This would guarantee network security and deal with content while respecting freedomî. Thatís just what we need ñ countries like France regulating Internet content for us. Although more than 60 nations were represented in Geneva by their heads of government, only a handful of industrial nations sent their leaders. While these heads of governments were invited to all the meetings, the head of ICANN (Internet Center for Assigned Names and Numbers), representatives of the news media, and anyone who was not a government official were barred from attending many of the ìprivateî meetings. The UN preferred a closed forum to decide how 750 million people would reach the Internet. Critics of the global Internet idea say certain nations like China want to take away ICANNís duties and place them under governmental auspices, along with increased control over security and content, placing freedom of press and individual freedom of expression at serious risk. After looking at the Action Plan that came out of the summit, it seems the critics are right. Under the auspices of expanding Internet access to poorer countries, the control of content is mentioned throughout the Action Plan. Section C9 states that ìappropriate measures should be taken to combat illegal and harmful content in media contentî. No mention is made of who would decide what is considered harmful content, however they do suggest the Internet should be subject to international law and compliant with the principles of the United Nations Charter. In other words content better fall in line with what the UN thinks is acceptable. The U.S.-led bloc favors ICANN model, which is based on minimal regulation and commercial principles. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, a UN treaty mentioned several times in the Plan of Action, states in Article 29 that ìThese rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.î You can bet the Contender Ministries section called ìUnited Nations Watchî would be right out. Section C10 ìEthical dimensions of the Information Societyî takes this ìcontrol of contentî on the Internet even further. It states: ìAll actors in the Information Society should promote the common good, protect privacy and personal data and take appropriate actions and preventive measures, as determined by law, against abusive uses of ICTs (Internet Communication Technologies) such as illegal and other acts motivated by racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia, and related intolerance, hatred, violence, all forms of child abuse, including pedophilia and child pornography, and trafficking in, and exploitation of, human beings.î Theyíll start with the ìwe must curb hate speechî diatribe and move on from there. Theyíll move from the obvious sites like white supremacist sites to conservative political sites, then pro-second amendment sites and finally religious sites that decry abortion and homosexualityÖor perhaps donít like the UN. You can bet the UN would consider any Christian ministry like Contender Ministries intolerant and hateful. After all we believe homosexuality is wrong and we point out false prophets and their religions. And, who decides what promotes the common good?! The UN would of course. Having the UN in charge of the entire Internet is insane. It would take three years and some sort of condemnation of Zionism in order for all the member states to come to any sort of complex technical standards for the Internet. ìStandardization is one of the essential building blocks of the Information Society,î reads the most recent draft of the WSIS Draft Declaration of Principles. ìthere should be particular emphasis on the development and adoption of international standardsî. The summit also produced a document titled ìDeclaration on the Right to Communicateî. Apparently we need the UN to tell us that we have that right. Much of the declaration reiterates what the declaration on human rights has already said. One particularly disturbing idea is that ìeveryone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religionî. This sounds great, but the ìfreedom of conscienceî statement has consistently been used by the UN to vilify anyone trying to ìforceî his or her religion on another person. Of course, what we consider witnessing or sharing our faith would be considered cramming something down the throats of others by the UN. The document goes on to say that ìeveryone has the right to be protected against forms of communication that are discriminatory in terms of gender, race, class, ethnicity, religion, language, sexual orientation, and physical or mental conditionî. In other words, if I want to say something on the Internet about another religion that you donít like, you have a right not to see it, and even having it on the Internet means you can see it. I, therefore, have no right to say it anymore. Once again, someone being offended trumps my right to free speech. Unless of course youíre a Christian and then the UN itself is allowed to offend you. Part 3 article 7 goes on to say, ìEveryone has the right to be protected from all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggressionî. So the UN would decide whatís peaceful and you better not deviate from that. This is also a nice way to slip in the International law plan. It doesnít matter what country youíre in or what the laws are in that country. If the UN governing agency decides your speech is a breach of peace, youíre outta there! Later in the declaration they come right out and say it. Part VI article 2 says, ìThe rights and freedoms that form part of the right to communicate can only be restricted under the conditions that limitations are prescribed by international law.î Part 3 Article 8 goes further on the plan to control Internet content. It states, ìEveryone has the right to be protected from incitement to hate, prejudice, violence, war, and genocideî. How convenient. The UN must protect you from hate or prejudice. Of course, any criticism or idea contrary to the UNís ideas of peace would be hateful. The basic theme of the declaration is the creation of a NEW electronic environment. Whatís wrong with the current one? The problem is, it allows for opinions and ideas that the UN canít control. How can the UN control the masses and build their global government with all that unregulated free speech going on? They canít and theyíre out to put a stop to it. The declaration also proposes a means for enforcing these new regulations. They propose the creation of an international ëCommunication Rights Ombudsmaní. Translation ñ Cyber Police. Part VI article 4 says ìany person who believes that his/her right to communicate has been violated by any act may ask the Ombudsman to intervene on his/her behalf by submitting a petition for the start of proceedings. The Ombudsman is also given powers to institute proceedings on his own initiative.î Following a decision on any injustice the ombudsman has wide powers to handle injustices in accordance with international law. He may also propose the initiation of disciplinary proceedings. Under this sort of policing and government intervention, the Internet as we know it would end. Referenced several times in the Action Plan and Declaration of Principals from the summit is the Declaration of Human Rights. Letís take a look at what that has to say about our rights. Article 29 1. Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible. 2. In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society. 3. These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations. There you have it. Your rights are limited to the principals of the UN Throw out the constitution and national sovereignty. Weíre under international law now. All parties participating in the summit agreed that a working group should be set up under the auspices of the United Nations to examine Internet governance issues. A private meeting was held to discuss plans for the working group to be formed in the time between the first and second phase of the Summit to be held in Tunisia. Conspicuously absent from the private meeting were ICANN and the U.S. government. This makes sense since Abu-Ghazaleh, a Jordanian businessman who is vice chairman of the UN information and Communication Technology Task Force, used the meeting to propose that ICANN be placed under the umbrella of the UN communications task force, something the U.S. and ICANN strongly appose. Talal Abu-Ghazaley also said ìthe world should be grateful to Uncle Sam for creating the Internet, but that it was time for the rest of the world to have a larger voice in its governanceî. I say, let them build their own Internet. We can give them the currently unassigned .slave suffix."" Again, that site is here and keep in mind this is not the home page but one of many on their website: http://www.contenderministries.org/UN/wsis.php Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2000 |
Another good article from the same site above. """Separation of Church and State? Don't Blame Thomas Jefferson. Contender Ministries ìSeparation of Church and State.î These are five little words that, in their misuse, have become the rallying cry of atheists, agnostics, and others who wish to remove God from the public forum. Thomas Jefferson popularized that phrase, and in so doing has become an icon to those who believe that a free expression of faith in God is incompatible with any government institution, practice, program, or official. In this article, we will explore the birth of the ìseparationî phrase, the establishment clause of the U.S. constitution, and some other lesser-known things that Thomas Jefferson said. The overall picture will be one that is much different than the one painted by American Atheists or Americans United for Separation of Church and State. In June of 2002, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in favor of California atheist Michael Newdow, saying that the United States Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional because it contains the words, ìunder God.î The decision was put on hold, pending a request that the court revisit their ruling. The appeals court refused, and school children in nine Western states will soon be stopped from reciting the pledge in school. The same atheist, Michael Newdow, also filed suit against President Bush. Why? Because the prayer offered by Rev. Franklin Graham at President Bushís inauguration was offered ìin Jesusí name.î The American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for Separation of Church and State have successfully sued to have displays of the Ten Commandments removed from government-owned property. They have recently attacked the governor of Alabama for having voluntary Bible studies in his office. They are leading the way in removing prayer and religious symbols from public schools. They are doing all of this under the banner of their favorite catch phrase ñ separation of church and state. The First Amendment to the constitution addresses, among other things, religious freedom. Commonly known as the ìEstablishment Clause,î the First Amendment reads as follows: ìCongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.î Legal opinions have extended the meaning of the establishment clause to include not only congress, but also all branches of government. The framers of our constitution did not want the government to favor one religion or denomination above the others, and in so doing, establish a state religion. The Church of England served as an example of what the founding fathers wanted to avoid. They wanted each citizen to have the freedom to worship in whatever way he or she chose, without having religious beliefs or practices dictated to them by the government. You will notice that ìseparation of church and stateî is not mentioned in the first amendment. In fact, itís not mentioned in the constitution at all. That phrase comes from a letter that founding father and 3rd U.S. President Thomas Jefferson wrote, that reads, in part: ìBelieving with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ëmake no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,í thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.î [1] In this letter, Jefferson is actually responding to a letter he had received from the Danbury Baptists of Danbury, CT. They were a minority denomination in that area and were subjected to persecution for their beliefs. They feared that if the government were to adopt a state religion, as it had done in England, that their minority views would be trampled, and they themselves subject to further persecution. Jefferson wrote his letter to them to reassure them that they would remain free to worship as they wished, without needing to fear government interference in their religious beliefs or practices. In fact, he borrowed the term ìwall of separationî from famous Baptist minister Roger Williams. We can see that neither the constitution nor Jeffersonís ìseparationî letter ever intimates that religious expression must be kept out of the public arena. Yet the ACLU and Americans United continue to lift Jefferson up as a sort of historic ìtown crierî for their cause. They seem convinced that Jefferson would not have permitted any political recognition of anything remotely religious. Are they correct? You be the judge. In 1774, while serving in the Virginia Assembly, Jefferson personally introduced a resolution calling for a Day of Fasting and Prayer. [2] In 1779, as Governor of Virginia, Jefferson decreed a day of ìPublic and solemn thanksgiving and prayer to Almighty God.î [3] As President, Jefferson signed bills that appropriated financial support for chaplains in Congress and the armed services. On March 4, 1805, President Jefferson offered ìA National Prayer for Peace,î which petitioned: ìAlmighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage; We humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners. Save us from violence, discord, and confusion, from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people the multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues. Endow with Thy spirit of wisdom those to whom in Thy Name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that through obedience to Thy law, we may show forth Thy praise among the nations of the earth. In time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust in Thee to fail; all of which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.î [4] As is evident, Jeffersonís belief in a separation between church and state did not preclude the very mention of God under state sanction. If he were not our third president, but our forty-third, I suspect Thomas Jefferson would find himself on the receiving end of a lawsuit for his sundry official statements that specifically mention ìGodî and ìJesus Christ.î Nearly 160 years after Jeffersonís death, in the case of Wallace v. Jaffree, Justice William Rehnquist offered the decision of the United States Supreme Court: ìIt is impossible to build sound constitutional doctrine upon a mistaken understanding of Constitutional historyÖ.The establishment clause had been expressly freighted with Jeffersonís misleading metaphor for nearly forty years.... There is simply no historical foundation for the proposition that the framers intended to build a wall of separation [between church and state]Ö.The recent court decisions are in no way based on either the language or intent of the framers.î [5] Offering his dissenting opinion on Michael Newdowís ìpledge lawsuit,î 9th Circuit Appeals Court Judge Ferdinand Fernandez said, in part: ìMy reading of the stelliscript suggests that upon Newdowís theory of our Constitution, accepted by my colleagues today, we will soon find ourselves prohibited from using our album of patriotic songs in many public settings. ìGod Bless Americaî and ìAmerica The Beautifulî will be gone for sure, and while use of the first and second stanzas of the Star Spangled Banner will still be permissible, we will be precluded from straying into the third. And currency beware!î [6] Sometimes, I am left to wonder what President Jefferson would think about Michael Newdowís lawsuits, about the work of the ACLU and Americans United. I think I found just what Jefferson might say on that matter. In 1781, he made the following statement: ìGod who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever.î [7] NOTES: [1] Thomas Jefferson, personal letter to Danbury Baptist Association, Danbury, CT, January 1, 1802. [2] Thomas Jefferson, Resolution for a Day of Fasting and Prayer made in the Virginia General Assembly, 1774. [3] Thomas Jefferson, Proclamation Appointing a Day of Thanksgiving and Prayer, November 11, 1779. [4] Thomas Jefferson, as quoted in The Life and Selected Writings of Thomas Jefferson (NY: Random House, 1944), p.341. [5] United States Supreme Court. 1985, Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S., 38, 99. [6] United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, 2002, Justice Fernandez dissenting, Newdow v. U.S. Congress et al, No. 00-16423. [7] Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781, p. 237.""" Denise. Tuija, I'm sure you have already looked into these things also but in case you hadn't, here is something to think about. |
