| Author |
Message |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 397
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 11:04 pm: |     |
Susan-2,
It must be hard to sit in church when some thing unbiblical is being preached. I do not blame you for talking to the pastor after the service. I will be praying for you and your mother. God will guide you. He is awesome.
Diana |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 810
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 11:50 pm: | |
Whenever I was a naughty little girl (and frankly I never was bold enuf to be really very naughty) my mom would get out her Bible and read to me Ex. 20:12 which says, "Honor your father and mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you'. Then I'd be told the text had no age limit, it ment I had to do what my parents told me to do for as long as them or me lived. Because to not obey them would be a violation of the second greatest commandment. The first greatest commandment was to "Remember the seventh day to keep it holy". Because of this intimadation I have turned into a coward around my mom. I wanted to join the navy when I was young but I knew my parents position as SDA's towards the military so I did not pursue that. I just fantasize running away but I know I really never would do that because I'm really the only one my mom has to rely on. Yet, she is verbally abusive and intimadating and is turning into an old bitter woman. She refuses to make any sort of social life and it mostly has to do with the religion. She just refuses to "hobnob with Commandment breakers". Today I got a letter from my son telling me he got a four year prison sentence. My mom was with me when I got the letter because I picked it up at the post office on the way to take her to church. I just broke down crying. Four years seems like such a long time to have him in prison and my mother just mocked me. She said, "Why are you crying? Is it because he broke the law or because he got caught?" I answered, "Because four years is a long time. I love him and he was trying so hard and ...". Then she said to me, "Well, you're wasting your time crying. Crying here in the church parking lot will not get him out of prison any sooner". I live next door. She gets up around 3-4 times per night to check if my car is here. She looks through my trash cans to make sure I'm not putting something in the trash bin that is supposed to go in the recycling bin or visa versa. She brings up wrongs done to her by people over 50 years ago. I tell her, "That was long ago. Why do you even remember that?" Then if I get emotionally drained and I don't go over there at least twice per day I get told off because she thinks I'm avoiding her, which I am but she'll tell me I must be avoiding her because I am ashamed of the sinfiul life I'm living. If I ask what I'm doing that's so sinful she'll mention totally stupid things like listening to rock and roll is sinful and having a glass of rum is sinful, whatever she can think of at the time that I do that she doesn't approve of, which more and more seems just about most everything. Next week I have an apointment with a mental health worker. I'm hoping I'll get some leads on a support group of people dealing with this. I think if a religion doesn't give the person a sense of internal peace then it is bad religion. As a result of this I think the SDA religion to most SDA's and especially my close kin is bad religion. I the meantime I'm tired.
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Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 401
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 7:47 am: | |
Susan_2,
I am so sorry for your son's sentence. Four years is a long time. That is so painful for you and more so when your Mom cannot acknowledge that. Can you move farther away from your Mom?
I agree that if a religion does not give internal peace it is a bad religion. My Mom did not have that peace either. She was converted to SDA from Catholicism. She was unhappy all her life.
Honoring your Father and Mother by doing what they tell you to do all your life is not honoring them. It is letting them manipulate you. The only way some people feel happy is when they try to contol others and still they are not happy. You sound like you do not let that happen. For that I am glad. I will pray for you.
I lived on the East Coast while my Mom lived in CA. I have a sister who constantly tried to lay a guilt trip on me because she was the one who chose to live in CA and care for Mom. She would tell me I could live in CA if I wanted. I did not take the bait and it would frustrate her because I would not do what she wanted. She accused me of not loving Mom because I lived on the East Coast. It is not the same situation as yours, but I can put myself in your shoes because of what has happened in my past. I am going to make a suggestion. You do not have to do it, but at least think and pray about it. Your Mom is not an alcoholic, but she has very dysfunctional behavior, so I think Al-Anon would be good for you. I have a friend in VA whose husband is very dysfunctional and she started going to Al-Anon. She has been going about 10+ years now. It has helped her cope with her husband's behavior.
I will keep you, your sons and your Mom in my prayers.
God is in charge and will work things out for you. Just submit it all to Him. He is truly awesome.
Diana |
Jeannette
Registered user
Username: Jeannette
Post Number: 38
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 5:42 pm: | |
Susan_2
I am so sorry about your son. I will continue to pray for your and your family. Is there anyway that he might be able to get on work release? I have a son who is in prison(he is actually a friend of our son, he calls us mom and pops, we've tried to help him through the years) . He is in prison for 2 years, they told him that after 10 mo. he could apply for work release.
Your mom sounds a lot like my grandmother. Preaching to everyone about the 10 commandments but not much love for anyone. She is one of the reasons my brother left the SDA church, the only problem is that he doesn't beleive in God.
Praying for you
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Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 108
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 6:02 pm: | |
My husband had a bunch of his old high school buddies from an SDA academy over last night. (they all graduated 11 years ago.) They were all raised in conservative SDA homes.
Out of 4 guys and their wives, it was interesting to see that only one person, one of the wives, is still conservative SDA. She happens to be from Latin America, and just moved to the states a few years ago.
The guy who brought up religion said "so, who all goes to church still" and I said that my husband and go to church, but not an SDA church. And he said "congratulations, how did you get out?" It turns out that he and his wife don't agree with the SDA precepts any more and are sick of the churh, but that they are deeply culturally invested in it. He is a deacon, and his whole family is SDA too. He just knows it will be really traumatic to leave, so he and his wife are biding their time for now, keeping up the charade. Another guy says he went through the "27 fundamental beliefs" and only agrees with 7 of them. He thinks the structure of the SDA church is set up to manipulate and control people. He used to be an SDA teacher, and has been screwed over by them several times, (for lack of a better term. sorry). His wife, though, is still conservative SDA in their beliefs, so they still go to a local SDA church.
Another guy is single. He still goes to the SDA church and believes what he knows of their tenets, though he hasn't deeply studied them. His lifestyle in no way reflects a commitment to God, which he readily admits without apology. He does talk about how he thinks people should share their faith, by action, not by words. He says he "really respects" my husband a lot for studying into the SDA beliefs and leaving the church when he was convicted to. He says "I respect that a lot more than all of us who stay in the church just because we are used to it, and don't really have a clue what we believe, and don't act like Christians."
I found it interesting that out of that group, most were SDA church attenders, but only one has a current heart commitment to the church and it's values and doctrines.
I could see their frustration with the SDA system, and I could hear their yearning for a real experience with God in the way they asked us about our faith. We didn't get into a deep doctrinal conversation, just shared simply that we had come to lean on Christ alone, and had studied the SDA beliefs, and found them sorely off-base, so we are following where GOd leads us. I have the feeling we will be hearing some questions and having some discussions with at least 2 of them more deeply in the future. And I am praying for God to take hold of their hearts and lead them out of their desolation.
Join me in praying for them?
-tanya-
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Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 109
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 6:04 pm: | |
Susan,
you are in my prayers.
-tanya- |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 407
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 6:47 pm: | |
Tanya,
You and your husband and his friends are in my prayer book. God will give you the words to say to those who ask.
God Bless.
Diana |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 812
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 9:16 pm: | |
Tanya. Wow! Out of 11 only one is turly committed. I wonder if your schools staticts are the norm for sda's or if it's the exception. What size school is it? It'd be cool if you and your husband could be instramental in helping these fellows get interested in a Christian committment.Do the fellows with children send their children to sda schools? |
Hrobinsonw
Registered user
Username: Hrobinsonw
Post Number: 17
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 7:17 am: | |
Tanya, I had a similar situation this weekend. It started Saturday and ended yesterday. I too went on a rant this weekend out of frustration.
My fiance' and her friends went to church on saturday. When I picked met them at Applebee's they were jumping at the bit to share the good news. Now eventhough they are SDA, I always open to hear after sermon discussions. When I asked about the sermon, they told me that it was about hip hop music. The sermon last week at another one of their churches was about hip hop music, and how important to black culture that it is. Now I am a fan of origional hip hop. But that is not the point. They said that the scriptures were out of Joshua. They were like kids just getting off of a ride at Six Flags. So when I asked how he related hip hop to Joshua, they couldn't tell me. All that they kept repeating was how good the sermon was and how they see hip hop in a new light. Sunday, I took her to church with me, it was her request. The sermon was from James and was about faith without works. Afterwards, everything is fine, we go to pick up her SDA friend that was with her on Saturday at Applebees. As we are driving she just opens up and says, "I don't know if I like your church yet, I missed the choir." My reply was, "choir is for praise, not a concert. the sermon is for spiritual feeding." Then I asked what did you get out of the sermon. And she replied, "ehh, it was ok." I immediately felt a high level of anger come over me. I said to her, "yesterday your sermon was about hip hop music and you just jumped for joy at how phenomenal the sermon was. Today, you hear about Faith without works being dead, with scriptural evidence and it is just Ok." I was seriously bothered.
I said all of that to say this. The Holy Spirit obviously lacks within the SDA community. It seems as if a sermon for them is a motivational speech about something that the congregation would enjoy hearing. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 814
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 9:30 am: | |
Jeanette, I hope your son is o.k. Do you write to him? Send him books? I doubt if my son will be able to go out on work release. However, he might be able to be a porter within the walls. He is very ill suffering from liver failure, kidney failure and colon problems. In fact, just this month he was scheduled for a slew of medical tests so he could get started on getting his health back. Hrobinsnwo, HIP-HOP!!! Hovever, I am not surprised. I have been attending the local SDA service regurally now for nearly two years. I have never heard a sermon from the minister that is about the Gosple. Several times he has stated at the beginning that his sermon is going to be about Jesus and only Jesus but it's not. Once it turned out to be about the IJ and how we must be right with God for the IJ so when Jesus comes we can meet Him in the clouds. That is not a sermn about Jesus no mattr how much these SDA's will tell me it is. Another time the sermon was supposed to be about the final hours of the life of Jesus, this was just after The Passion came out but he got way off track and the sermon was more about the Catholicness of the movie than what Jesus did this for us, if you know what I mean. I used to attend the Fresno Central SDA church. It was a very small congregation with only unenthusiastic people. No spark. Then an absoutely wonderful minister came in and was the pastor there for 12 years. He grew that church to being one of the most gosple teaching churches in all of Fresno. He grew it to two packed services every Saturday. In the 12 years I heard him never did he even make reference to EGW or any of her thouhts. Never once did he make reference to the IJ. Then abruptly one Sabbath he gave his final sermon. I never heard if he quit or got fired and it was very sad to see a wonderful church falter. The followin Sabbath nearly 50% of that churches people met in a rented church across town. He still is ministering at that church on Saturdays and if I lived in the Fresno area I sure would attend there. I attended the Lutheran church yesterday morning and while listening to the pastor it struck me that his sermon is similiar to the sermons I used to hear from Pastor X at the Fresno Central SDA church. When the SDA denomination gets a gosple centered pastor in he doesn't stay, either he'll get fired or be pressured to resign. It's sure too bad. And, what really saddens me is my mom. Now many years later she is still talking about how that minister was the best SDA minister she's ever heard. That they finily got a good one and he had to go. She could be hearing The Good News weekly but because of her fear of stepping into a non-Sabbath-keeping church she is spritually miserable. |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 54
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:11 am: | |
Hrobinsonw - Beware: You had to know someone would respond as I am going to after sharing your weekend story! Please forgive me for sticking my nose where you may feel it doesn't belong!
I'm praying for you, my friend. Remember, we can never change the ones we love no matter how much we love them. They have to do the changing themselves and that is done by listening to the voice of our Great Leader and Teacher. I was in your dear girl friend's life for many, many years. I KNOW where she is coming from. I remember it all so clearly. I praise and thank my Savior everyday that He kept His loving kindness wrapped around my stubborn life, gently "nagging" me over the years. You must decide for yourself how long you can live with her stubborness. I pray she will not be as stubborn as I. You are a good man and I can tell she is fortunate to have your love in her life. Make sure you understand how diificult it will be for her to change her way of thinking and that it will affect your life and that of your children to come.
God will bless you through your journeys. |
Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 112
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:23 am: | |
Susan2,
I am not sure what size the school was - it was my husband's, not mine. I wasn't raised SDA). The one child, a little girl, is only 6 months old, so no school yet. And that family is the one that says that they are "biding their time", and waiting for the chance to escape the SDA system. (He has a phD on music, if anyone knows of a job for him).
They are thinking of leaving the church when they find a job and move.
we will definitely be praying for all of them, and asking God to use us in any way possibly in their lives.
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Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 113
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:26 am: | |
HRob,
it took about 4 years of "nagging" (prayer and discussion) before my then-boyfriend, now-husband finally seriously came to CHrist in a personal way and opened his mind to the possibility that the SDA church didn't have all the answers, and actually had many of the wrong answers.
Just listen to God, He has a plan for her, and for you regarding your relationship with her. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 533
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:39 am: | |
Susan, I will pray that God will give you emotional distance from your mom. Diana's suggestion about Al-Anon is really good; between your mom and your sons' recurrent problems, I think you could the use the strength and perspective you would find at those meetings. I'm glad you'll be seeing a mental health professional.
Tanya, isn't it amazing how God begins bringing people into one's life when he or she finally makes a heart commitment to Jesus? Your husband would not have been ready to handle that conversation the way you both did even six months ago! His timing is perfect! Praying for your friends and for your and your husband's witness.
Hrobinsonw, I understand your anger. And Dd is right; your fiancee will not change easily. Her response to your church and to the performance at her own is a window into where she is in her heart right now. Be very wary, and be willing to allow God to direct you in this relationship.
With prayers for you,
Colleen |
Jenntooth
Registered user
Username: Jenntooth
Post Number: 11
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 11:10 am: | |
Hi Tanya!
I'll definately be praying that your friends will be prompted to ask more about your convictions. That's very exciting that you were able to have an open discussion about your journey and about each of their positions regarding Adventism.
Like your husband, my husband and I have numerous SDA friends (all multi-generational) who don't attend the church on a regular basis and don't really stand for Adventism (besides being a vegetarian...)We haven't really gotten into a discussion about Adventism and why we left but they know that we attend a non-denominational church now.
It was interesting this weekend-we had a birthday party at our house and wouldn't you know that about 10 of our friends in attendance are SDA...Well, one of my husband's coworkers came (works at LLUMC)and he started talking about his ex wife who left him because she was SDA and he isn't and how Adventism is a cult etc. I believe the Holy Spirit brought him there that night because my husband said he couldn't have been more surprised when he showed up. Anyway, I was able to afirm his statements as a former Adventist in front of my "adventist by name only" friends and told them that I have studied for over a year and would be happy to talk with anyone about it. No one really stepped forward but I'm sure that some seeds were planted that night. Praise God.
God has his perfect timing and I'm praying that your friends' hearts and minds will be open and ready to search out Christ.
Jennifer |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 817
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 12:53 pm: | |
Dear Tealeaves, I went to those two websites you mentioned. The only things I liked about them was the comparison between the SDA and the RC and the patroitic pages. When I get to the frightening things having to do with last day events I log off very quickly. I won't even look at the pictures of that stuff in those Annoying Fiction magazines. I get nightmares if I see that stuff. I think it goes back to my childhood having to go to those Armeggdon/Revelation Seminars. Did you notice what he wrote about the Trinity? Communion? Did you notice nowhere does either of those sites have even one mention about the saving grace through Jesus? |
Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 115
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 2:56 pm: | |
Susan, I did notice those things. Like you, I mainly focused on the theo stuff, and only scanned the Last Days stuff. I am not a fan of obsessing about the last days, i think we should focus on Christ instead, and let Him prepare our hearts as He sees fit.
I always remember that every generation sinc CHrist's resurrection has been "sure" that things were "bad enough" that Christ was bound to come along at any moment.
It could be tomorrow, it could be one thousand years from now. Either way, my focus needs to be Christ, NOT earthly events.
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Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 116
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 3:04 pm: | |
Hi Jenn!!
I haven't seen you for a while, how is it going? My good friend from nursing school, Janelle, says she remembers you well, and fondly.
Interesting, isn't it? - that you had "old school" week the same time as we did? We certainly do need to pray for them to seek out CHrist, and for us to be open to being available in whatever capacity God may call us to where they are concerned.
I learned today that one of the other guys we met with over the weekend really asked my husband about his study in-depth one on one before he left. (He is the guy who is SDA in belief, but doctrine is as deep as it goes, it doesn't really show in his life.) Like you said, maybe there were seeds planted.
We'll keep praying!
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Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 819
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 4:51 pm: | |
This past Sunday the ministers topic was the second coming of Jesus. At first I had a panicky feeling of dread but then I thought, "It really can't be too dreadful, after all, I'm in a Lutheran church hearing a sermon from a Luheran pastor". Then he went on to say that a lot of Christians only acknowledge the second coming of Jesus as the actual eartly second coming which as Christians we all look forward to. But, he is talking on a more personal level. The first coming of Jesus was when He was born to Mary and Joseph. His real second coming is when we let Jesus take over our hearts and give ourselves fully to Him. I left knowing that I'd heard the Word of God and with peace in my heart and had forgotten all about the dread I'd first felt come over me when he announced his topic. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 411
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 5:28 pm: | |
It sounds like God has been doing amazing things in peoples hearts with Tanya's and Jentooth's friends. I will keep all of you in my prayers.
As for Christ's second coming, I have thought for a long time, even as an SDA, that if I keep up my relationship with Jesus every day, pray and read my Bible and ask God to show me what he wants, then I do not worry about the end times. When that time comes I will have a solid relationship with Him.
Susan, I continue to pray for you and yours.
Every day I find out more and more how awesome God is.
Diana |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 415
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 8:50 pm: | |
Hrobinsonw,
I have refrained from saying anthing, because all I would say is the same thing I have said when you originally asked for prayers for your friend.
I do continue to pray for you and her. Be careful friend, very careful. I was in her place at one time. I will not say any more. God is awesome and can work miracles, when the person is ready for them.
Diana |
Hoytster
Registered user
Username: Hoytster
Post Number: 102
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 6:03 am: | |
Hrobinsonw,
Re your rant: get used to it.
If you make your life with this woman, then church will become a locus of dissent and conflict. You will vary between angry and depressed, as you express your dismay or stifle it for the sake of marital relations.
What church will NOT be is a place to draw closer to Jesus. You will be so embroiled in the big arguments about this and that doctrine, that Jesus is pushed out by petty proof texts.
Your children (should you be so blessed) will pick up on the disagreement between you and your wife, obviously. They may conclude that one or the other is right. Your wife will make it her main goal in life to "win" that debate, so her children have "the Truth." Your children may also decide that you are both wrong, and go off into yet another religion or (very often) no religion at all.
Praying, Hoytster |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 417
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 7:37 am: | |
Hoyster...good to hear from you. How is your situation going? Wasn't your court date in July? |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 543
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:17 am: | |
Hoytster, I'm glad to see you here again! I've been wondering where you were and how you're doing. Do you have updates?
Still praying for you,
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 426
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 8:58 pm: | |
I almost lost it today when writing to a acquaintance I made over the internet. He is an SDA. Apparently he did not read my profile because on there I say I am Christian. At first I had SDA, but when I decided not to rejoin the SDA church, I changed by profile.
I am always amazed at how closed minded SDAs are when it comes to EGW and how quick they jump to defend her.
He had written to me to ask me to pray for him because he has cancer of the prostate. I wrote back and told him I would and told him about not being SDA any more. I told him so he would not have any expectations from me. I reassured him I am always glad to pray for others. In writing to him I felt like my head was hitting a brick wall again. I know there is nothing there that attracts me to him. He is the one that wrote to me to ask for prayers. Right now I want to take his head and hit it against that brick wall!!!
I will pray for him and ask all of you to pray also. He goes to see his doctor on Thursday.
Diana |
Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 118
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 6:52 am: | |
Praying of course, FL. |
Hrobinsonw
Registered user
Username: Hrobinsonw
Post Number: 18
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 10:04 am: | |
Prayer is done. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 547
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 11:24 am: | |
Praying also, Diana.
Colleen |
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