| Author |
Message |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 79
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 4:30 pm: |     |
What is a "spiritual wife"?
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 594
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 9:12 pm: | |
A "spiritual wife" is one who is not legally married but is "spiritually married" to a man. My understanding is that they don't necessarily (probably not, in fact) live together, but they, of course, can consummate their spiritual relationship. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 489
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 9:22 pm: | |
The more I hear of the Whites, the more weird (for want of a better) word, they seem. And the General Conference knew all about them when the church was organized?? All the more reason I am so thankful God pulled be out gently, a little at a time.
He is AWESOME.
Diana |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 866
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 9:28 am: | |
I read somewhere that egw lived with and studies with a prominant Mormon family for a year. There are some similiarities between the sda and lds. Diet is similiar,the exclusiveness, the one true church, etc. I'll look into this some more. |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 443
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 10:18 am: | |
One of the former sites has some parallels between Smith's teachings and White's 'visions". He called himself a messenger from God and claimed he had the Spirit of prophecy, etc. But I thought Joseph Smith died in 1844?? Is that wrong? |
Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 138
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 9:59 pm: | |
It is also interesting to look at Mary Baker Eddy and her role in the Jehovah's Witness church. (she is the JW equivalent of EGW, basically.) -interesting because she based her theology on Miller's predictions too.
Back to LDS, the biggest similarity I have seen between the SDA and LDS church is rather intangible. It is the feeling and atmosphere that surrounds both churches. A lack of focus on Christ, a lack of respect for those who are "not in the fold".
The first time I ever met an SDA was the first day I set foot on my college campus. I dodn't know anything about the SDAs before school. I learned by immersion, and it was a shock! I have never been more spiritually depressed than i was on that campus. It was as if most everyone there was walking around with a pile of blackened dead ashes in their hearts where there should have been a fire for God.
The only other time I have experienced this spiritual dampness was when I was having theological discussions with Mormons, and when I was in Salt Lake City Utah. (weird city, talk about feeling a bad spiritual vibe!)
I got that same creepy, dark feeling when I saw that SDA booth at the fair. (the one that was set up to look like a political booth, didnt let on that they were SDA.)
I know that you can't go off of "feelings" as tests of truth or spirituality, but I certainly take heed and keep my eyes peeled when i get this particualr vibe. I think it is the Holy SPirit tapping me on the shoulder and telling me to keep my head up. |
Bb
Registered user
Username: Bb
Post Number: 21
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 10:15 pm: | |
I thought Mary Baker Eddy was Christian Science. Was she involved with JW's also? I find that one of the biggest reasons for giving up SDA is that it is so much like those other cults. I used to think we were different and had the "truth", but that is what they think too! Amazing. |
Lydell
Registered user
Username: Lydell
Post Number: 628
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 6:44 am: | |
Tealeaves, the Spirit definitely can stir our spirits as a tip off to something being amiss, or when things are right as well....very different feelings from each other!
I've been doing some reading about the history of the Christian church. It can't be coincidence that the SDA/LDS/JW/Christian Scientists all got their start about the same time as our country was feeling the effects of the Second Great Awakening. It should come as no surprise. The enemy always tries to imitate the work of God. |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 444
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 6:54 am: | |
Mary Eddy Baker was Christian Science, Charles Russel Taze or something like that was JW.
I went to an RLDS service once with a friend...they sang hymns about Joseph Smith. Does Adventism do that? |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 497
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 7:39 am: | |
There is a Christian country western singer who is SDA. I heard him when I lived in Manassas, VA. He wrote and sang songs about EGW. I liked his Christian music. Because of the EGW stuff on one CD I threw all of them away. Right now I cannot remember his name.
Diana |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 25
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 9:11 am: | |
I have never heard of an EGW song. However, only one time that I recall, the church we recently left had the congregation sing a hymn specifically about the Investigative Judgment (and I hadn't realized previously that song existed). This was a couple months after everything was coming together for me regarding the problems with SDA theology. I simply refused to sing that one hymn. |
Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 139
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 12:10 pm: | |
Sorry, I must have gotten them confused... matched the wrong prophet with the wrong cult.
You are right, MBE was CS, not JW, -- (all these initials, no wonder I was confused. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 602
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 11:00 pm: | |
Melissa, you are right that Joseph Smith died in 1844. Ellen was young when she apparently knew him personally. She had her first "vision" at age 17. James, the one purported to have the spiritual wife who was a sister of Smith's, was older than Ellen.
Lydell, I agree with you re: the not-so-surprising "coincidence" of SDA, LDS, CS, and JWs all starting about the time of the Great Awakening. As Ellen herself said, the most effective deception is to mix a little error with truth.
Colleen |
Krista
Registered user
Username: Krista
Post Number: 8
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 11:43 pm: | |
SDA Outreach has comparisons of Joseph Smith to EGW and it's over 20 pages. It's quite interesting and creepy.
Yesterday I watched the video: Seventh Day Adventism: Spirit Behind The Church. First, I have to say that some of the things they claim SDAs believe, I don't think is true of most churches today. However, it totally blew my mind to hear that the Soul Sleep idea started around the time of the IJ, so it would fit in with this doctrine! Weird, huh??
They also said that "Sketches From the Life of Paul" was plagiarized in it's entirety (copied from "Epistles of the Apostle Paul" by William J. Conybeare & John S. Howson) and was not reprinted when they were threatened with a lawsuit. Has anyone found confirmation of this online? |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 606
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 1:20 pm: | |
Krista, I can't point you to an online source, but this fact is historical, and the church is quite well-aware of it. The book just quietly fell out of print.
I've heard people say the church was sued over this plagiarism, but in fact they were not, apparently, actually sued. They were threatened with a suit, and the church quietly settled by removing the book from print.
Colleen |
Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 146
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 2:17 pm: | |
Krista,
you mentioned that many of the things in the SDA Spirit Behind the Truth video aren't believd in the SDA churches today. And I would agree that many SDAs do not individually believe them, or may not even know of them.
But what bothers me about those "far-out" beliefs that have just fallen out of vogue, is that the SDA church never denounced them. Some SDAs just started ignoring the beliefs that people didn't like. They stopped announcing them from the pulpit. But their effects have lingered on in the attitudes and teachings of the church nonetheless, because the heretical teachings were not addresses and denounced, just covered over and partway ignored.
Christians need to take a firm stand against that which is not the truth! |
Bb
Registered user
Username: Bb
Post Number: 24
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 3:35 pm: | |
Krista,
Where did you find that comparison on Joseph Smith to EGW? I looked up sdaoutreach.org but didn't find it. I am interested in that. I have read books about people who have left the JW's and the World Wide Church of God. It is interesting how similar these stories are.
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 612
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 4:07 pm: | |
Tanya, you are so right. I'm not just unimpressed--I'm outright annoyed when people claim Adventists don't believe "those things" anymore. There are two problems with that claim.
First, the fact that, as you've said, they're swept under the rug doesn't mean they're not there. The church has never denounced its false teaching or the duplicity of its prophet--to say nothing of the prophet herself. Further, it has never acknowledged that Ellen actually wrote stuff (about the solar system, health, diet and passion, masturbation, etc.) which everyone knows today was not true. It's all swept under the rug, but the influences of those things (and other writings) still color the church's beliefs and practices.
Second, people still claim membership and publicly profess some sort of loyalty to the church even when they don't believe its teachings and traditions. In fact, they defend it (or their membership in it) simultaneously with disclaiming adherence or belief in its 27 Fundamentals. They will simultaneously say, "Not everything Ellen wrote is from God; even she didn't call herself a prophet. I don't read her or believe she has any direct relevance to me;" and "Ellen was used by God. She wrote many beautiful devotional works, and she was inspired the same way the Bible writers were inspired."
Now, how can a person believe both of those things at the same time? I ask this as one who held these two opposing positions in my own head for many years. People deal insults to both Ellen and the Holy Spirit with these comments. Ellen herself said either all her work was inspired, or none of it was. And to equate Ellen's inspiration with Isaiah's is a travesty. To believe Ellen was inspired as was a Bible writer leaves one editing the Bible and rationalizing God's word to us.
To claim loyalty to and membership in the Adventist church when one does not believe what it teaches and stands for is a compromised position. It requires a great deal of rationalizing and cognitive dissonance to straddle the fence of loyalty and unbelief. (I speak from experience.) One can never embrace freedom in Christ while consciously holding onto these opposing positions. In such a position, freedom in Christ is always a wish or a goal, never a reality.
Praise God for continuing to lead us to Himself!
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 508
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 6:51 pm: | |
There are so many things I have learned off the web sites and here, that are written my former SDAs, about the SDA church that I did not know the SDA church believed. Maybe I did not learn what ever it was, but it is still in church history and has never been denounced. That is awful.
I thank God every day for taking me out of that church and teaching me about Jesus.
God is awesome.
Diana |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 878
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 7:00 pm: | |
Colleen, What you write is exactally how my SDA kin rationalize their attending the SDA church, I think even being fullblown bonifed members. My mom will say EGW has no influence on her, that she does not read EGW books, etc. This is true, she doesn't. However, she studies the SDA Sabbath School lesson book that comes out every three months and I recently paged throuh a current one and it is page after page of EGW stuff, so she certanily is getting her daily dose of EGW that way. She also reads the Review and gets those Annoying Fiction magazines that Doug Botchler sends out. So, for an Adventist to claim they aren't being influenced by EGW is nonsense. They are! Also, my mom was one of the first to purchase the book, White Washed (Did I get the title f the book correct?) and read it. Still thugh she and my kin ratioalize it. Don't make sense to me. |
Krista
Registered user
Username: Krista
Post Number: 10
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:15 pm: | |
Great conversation, everyone!! Tealeaves, I agree with you! They just ignore the goofy visions and it's all okay (?). It's amazing at how cleverly EGW's teachings are intertwined with Biblical teachings and how confused SDAs are... and also how complicated the SDA doctrines are, and how much is hidden from members... it's all very sad.
Bb, Here is the link for comparisons between EGW & Joseph Smith (this is interesting because I find SDAs don't like Mormons!):
http://www.ellenwhite.org/refute7a.htm
Ellen got ideas about Enoch from Joseph Smith too. She liked Enoch cuz she thought he was an Adventist!
"Enoch was an Adventist." Signs of the Times, Oct. 12, 1904
Isn't that almost... cute, lol:
http://ellenwhite.org/egw60.htm |
Dane
Registered user
Username: Dane
Post Number: 33
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 6:30 pm: | |
I agree that the SDA leadership periodically changes their "truth" by ignoring ideas that have become uncomfortable. I think this may be made easier by the ignorance regarding church history by the rank and file.
Dane |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 21
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 3:56 pm: | |
Here is the web page I put together showing some of EGW's worst statements of bigotry, racism, and discrimination. Read it and be shocked. I was shocked to find a lot of those quotes.
At watchthetower.com, I found a similar statement to one of EGW's quotes by the Jehovah's Witnesses' Watchtower magazine.
Here's the comparison:
quote:"Then I saw that Jesus prayed for his enemies; but that should not cause us or lead us to pray for the wicked world, whom God had rejected -- when he prayed for his enemies, there was hope for them, and they could be benefitted and saved by his prayers, and also after he was a mediator in the outer apartment for the whole world; but now his spirit and sympathy were withdrawn from the world; and our sympathy must be with Jesus, and must be withdrawn from the ungodly.... I saw that the wicked could not be benefitted by our prayers now... Then I saw that scripture did not mean the wicked whom God had rejected that we must love, but he meant our neighbors in the household, and did not extend beyond the household; yet I saw that we should not do the wicked around us any injustice; -- But, our neighbors whom we were to love, were those who loved God and were serving him.
(Signed) E. G. White." (The Camden Vision, Camden, N. Y. June 29, 1851.)
quote:"Jesus encouraged his followers to love their enemies, but God's Word also says to ëhate what is bad.í When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up, then in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked." (Watchtower, July 15, 1961, page 420.)
Of course, Jesus says, "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44 KJV.)
Jeremy |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 996
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 5:45 pm: | |
I have nuerous ex-in-laws who are JW. They will not pray for or with anyone who is not JW with the exception of asking their god to convert that person to JW. Only then will they pray with or for that person on such things as prayer for he sick, praise or anything and everything else. I go to watchthetower often. You can read my commenys on the comment section. Did you read the part titled, Watchtower Steals Artwork"? Apparently the JW kids book of Bible stories has artwork stolen from Uncle Arther's books. I wrote a comment to Mr. Blzzard that he has posted in his comment section that it's really no big deal that the JW's stole from the SDA's because most of EGW's writngs are solen, too. He wrote back, "birds of a feather...". He has a lot of the common history of the JW and the SDA, which by the way, most JW's have no clue of. |
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