| Author | Message | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 87 Registered: 5-2004 |
I feel like a prayer hog! But I am troubled over something, and would appreciate some prayer. My husband and I are searching for a church. We just don't feel God has given us the thumbs-up on any of the churches we have visited, although we have definitely met some really nice Christian people. My husband and I think a little out of the box. We are looking for a church that places relationships and serving others over church programs in importance and priority. We are currently praying about being a part of a particualr church here that meets one evening week, and is trying to reformat from a conventional "one service a week and occasional potluck" type of church, into a community of believers supporting each other as they all do ministry in meaningful ways with their neighbours and acquaintances. We had the pastor over today to talk with him about his vision for the church, and it was just not all I had hoped for. He said he is trying to think out of the box and change things in this way, but made absolutely no mention of this being "what GOd laid on his heart" or about "where he thinks GOd is leading." It seems like he is still just trying out new ideas and asking God for his approval rather than letting God lead him and the group to what God has in store for them. I am saddened by the malaise that grips this town. And I want so badly for people to tap into the awesome power of God to change lives. But it seems everyone is stuck on self-reservation mode, that people WANT God to work in a real way in their lives, but they all act llike they don't really truly believe that He can or will communicate directly to them, and do God-sized tasks in their lives. So I am praying for where God wants us to land as far as church is concerned. If it is this little group, then I think it will entail an almost missionary-type interaction on our part. So my prayer is, where does God want us? Does He want us with this group, to hopefully spread some of the fire He has placed in our hearts for Him? Or does He have something else in mind for us? I am actually pretty frustrated and teary about this, this evening. I haven't actually been a part of a dynamic group of CHristians that are actively seeking God with their whole lives since I was in High School. I feel like God has a plan for us and for our convictions, I am just not sure what it is yet. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2004 |
I literally feel you pain on this. And I will pray for you. You have described just the type church I want to be a part of, but haven't found. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 372 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tealeaves, One of the things the church I attend has emphasized is the relationship aspect and serving others. So I really understand what you are saying. I will pray that God take you to the church He wants for you. He is awesome and will show you. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 783 Registered: 11-2002 |
Have you tried the Lutheran or the Prespertarian? Do you live near a large military base? I love attending base chapel services. If you are near a large base that has base chapel services you can call the base chapel and get a base pass to attend services there. Seeing how the military folks travel around so much the population that attends a certain base chapel is transist. I understand locals who can be a stabailizing force at base chapels are really appriciated. Have you attended the Seventh-day Baptist? I hope you are soon feeling you have been let to where the Good Lord is placing you. And, remember the Yellow Pages are full of churches. | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 101 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tealeaves, I absolutely understand where you are coming from because Iíve found myself in the same position. Looking back, I believe that part of what God has been doing for me is helping me get a big picture of what he is doing with the Church. Iíve made some awesome Christian friends over the past three to four years of transitioning out of Adventism, yet I donít have a church ìhomeî of my own, although Iím a member of small groups and other ministries. Itís not that Iím forsaking fellowshipping together, but rather that Iíve been busy attending conferences or working with different friends who are offering a workshop here or there. I attended a meeting about a month ago of pastors and leaders in our area and once I get back in town I plan to become more involved with that group. Hereís my theory of the big picture. I believe that God is in a huge paradigm shift right now with the Church. Iíve seen more and more people who are starting to wake up and become really serious about developing their relationship with Jesus, their church and others. They look around and see exactly what youíre seeing and wonder where they are to go. There are many people right now who feel they arenít in the right church situation but arenít quite sure what/where God is sending them. Many of them seem to have grown more spiritually than their own pastors. More and more people are starting to comprehend themselves as marketplace ministers rather than someone who attends church one day a week. But these are a few people here or there in a lot of different churches, both denominational and otherwise. Somehow, I believe God is going to do something because itís just all too ìcoincidentalî to be something other than God at work. It also seems that there is a real blending between traditional and more charismatic/Pentecostal types of churches. Just a couple of weeks ago I took my grandchildren to a childrenís conference at a Methodist Church. This is three times within the last six months that Iíve attended Methodist Churches in three different locations that were decidedly different from what would be considered traditional Methodist. Two were quite charismatic and all three very Spirit-filled, seeing their role in the community exactly as you perceive it, Tealeaves. (Iím not suggesting to become Methodist, but just using this as an example.) While you will never find a ìperfectî church, which Iím sure you know, I personally believe that your lack of peace over this current situation means you have not found the right congregation. Perhaps God is still asking you to move around a bit more. That is very, very difficult if you have young children. Do you? You might check out more non denominational churches or churches of other denominations than youíve already tried. Iím looking for a church that reaches out to the community rather than call people only into their denomination or church. I want one who sees themselves merely as one congregation of the Church in their area and who cooperates willingly and readily with other Christians. I want a group who understands the concepts of powerfully praying in transformation for their community. I want a group who has seen the Transformation video and wants to accomplish the same thing in their own community. Iëm getting closer on my search because Iíve learned a whole lot about what God is wanting from me and my particular giftings. But now we are moving to a nearby town <sigh> so I need to start all over again! But the good thing was that on the first Sunday in the new area I happened to attend a church where the pastor was sharing his new vision (and that of his leadership team) for their church and it so fits mine. But it was an Assemblies of God church, and I hesitate to become involved in another ìdenominationî, especially one where I donít agree with all their doctrinal ideas. So who knows? Itís just that Iíve been learning to develop patience over this process. Iíd be interested to know if youíve seen the same patterns in your area? Hereís another thought. I watched my daughter and son-in-law also transition out of Adventism. After some of the same things youíve gone through, they sensed God wanted them in a small, developing church. Looking at it as an outsider, I see that God brought them there as a temporary assignment. Iíve become acquainted with their pastor as a group of us shared a huge condo while attending a conference together. But now my kids have gone from two bio children to five with the addition of three they adopted one week ago from Ukraine. (Thatís why Iím out of townóhelping with this new blending.) There is no way this little church plant can offer what these five kids need for their own spiritual development as all five will be in public school this year. (Bio grandkids in non denominational church school until this year.) So perhaps you may find yourself temporarily planted somewhere, both for your and the congregationís own good and then God will move you on. Hopefully this will give you some additional considerations rather than just confuse you! But Godís in charge and it will be great fun to watch what heís doing with your family. Enjoy the rideÖ Praise GodÖ | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 82 Registered: 6-2004 |
It took me about 5 years before I found a church I was really comfortable in after leaving the SDA. Keep on checking them out, I must have gone through about 10 different places before settling into a Calvary Chapel. I knew that was the one for me with the great music and teachings, plus the fellowship and ministries really are focused on serving people and God together. Check out calvarychapel.com and see if there's one close by where you live to visit. | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2004 |
Tealeaves, Its surprising how many of us are now in the same position! After leaving the SDA church 3 years ago, I started attending a Seventh-Day Baptist Church in the community where I live. But for the past year or so, I began to think that this church is also not the church where God wants me to be. I am also looking for a small community church that is Bible based, has a good youth program (for the sake of my son) and which also has a dynamic community outreach program. There is a small Baptist church (Not Seventh-Day)around the corner from where I live that I have been thinking about constantly, and I stopped by there last Sunday to get some information on their services. I think the Lord might be leading me there because that church is constantly on my mind. So, I will pray for you, and please pray for me that we both can eventually find our church homes. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 785 Registered: 11-2002 |
Don't you think the Baptist denomination has too many rules? It'saopnio me that the Baptists generally have a rule about every aspect of personal behavior, which I believe personal behavior decisions are a matter of conscience between the individual and God. Most personal thngs regarding living I read in the Bible to practice in moderation. For me I want a church that values personal displine, not church ordered do's and don't's. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 509 Registered: 12-2003 |
I completely understand what you are describing, Tanya and Vchowdhury and others. God will plant you in a church where He wants you. One thing I'm more and more convinced of is that we have to be willing to surrender even our vision of what kind of church we want to be part of. What I've discovered is that churches with programs for reaching out and meeting needs often really become stuck on the PROGRAMS rather than on doing God's will. This phenomenon came into focus for Richard and me last night. We were invited to an informational meeting a our church to learn about a new plan to enfold and help new attendees to become integrated into the church. (It has grown rapidly over the past few years.) The plan is good and involves people committing to following up with periodic phone calls and offering help to those who are looking for places to become involved. One woman, however, made a comment that I thought put everything into perspective. She said that a man she knows prays every Sunday before he goes to church that God will bring people across his path to whom he should speak. I absolutely believe that God honors such prayers, and while I don't think the program should be abandoned, I believe that trying to make programs work ultimately fails. Individuals must be committed to knowing and growing and responding to Christ on a moment-by-moment basis, or programs become just so much activity...more heat than light, so to speak. I share your concern with the pastor's apparent attitude, Tanya. When a unique format becomes the focus of attention as a means of stimulating new kinds of involvement, I do have a certain caution alarm sounding. Overall, I've found that our church has been deeply rewarding for several reasons. While it's large (about 2,400 attending per weekend), the pastoral staff is committed to teaching the word of God and to discipling members and attenders. The base line focus is sound Biblical teaching. In fact, huge numbers of people say they joined this church because of the in-depth Biblical exposition each Sunday from the pulpit. (After all, Jesus said if He is lifted up, He will draw all men to Himself.) Second, small groups flourish at this church. It is really through the small groups that people find their community. Women's and men's Bible studies are again Bible study based (as opposed to book based), and meaningful connections grow through small groups praying and studying together. In addition, the church has many outreach ministries including after-school ministries on the "wrong side of the tracks" for at-risk children, feeding programs, short-term missions, regular Mexico mission trips, etc. Underlying them all, however, is the gospel. These programs are not primarily designed to get people involved or to do social service. They are the outgrowth of individuals who have a vision for bringing Jesus to those who need him. Chruches really do vary, and many are quite dead. I see church, however, as a place where, ideally, we are both fed and sent out. Perhaps the greatest need of former Adventists is clean, inductive Bible study. (Perhaps it's th greatest need of everybody!) We have much to learn as well as to unlearn, and I'm more and more conivnced that we must put ourselves in places where we study with others who do not have our unique background. We need each other to heal and debrief, but we also need Bible study with Christians who haven't learned the Bible the way we did, and we need to be sharpened by their understandings. Then, as an outgrowth of learning the word of God, service becomes a natural part of our experience. I've discovered that God literally calls us and equips us for the work He wants us to do. And when He calls us, we know it His voice. We aren't left with that uncomfortable feeling you described, Tanya, as you listened to that pastor talk about his dream. It's really not about our dream; it's about doing the work God prepared in advance for us to do (Ephesians 2:10). When He calls us, He makes his calling "our" dream, but we can never own it. It belongs to Him. I'm praying for you, Tanya and Vchowdhury, that God will lead you to the congregation where He wants to teach you and equip you for His work--which He has already planned for you to do! With prayers for all of us, Colleen | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 91 Registered: 5-2004 |
Thanks so much for your encouragement. I hear so much of what I feel echoed in your thoughts and words! PraiseGod, I especially identify with what you said about the paradigm shift that is happening in churches. The typical church picture, with 10% of the members doing 90% of the ministry just isn't cutting it. Not on ly that, it isn't biblical. The church is a BODY, not a program. The body of CHrist is supposed to be actively living out His love in the world. Again, it makes me think of the song "If we are the body, why aren't His Hands healing, why aren't HIs words teaching, why aren't His arms reaching..." We have attended almost every church in the area. We started with the non-denominational ones, because we find that they are the most likely to think out of the box about church structure, as we do. Like I say, there were some nice people, but no real spiritual pull for us. I am so convicted that God wants us in an active ministry that is based on relationships with God, other CHristians, and with our community at large. And this little church that I spoke of in my original post is talking about becoming that very type of ministry, but there doesn't seem to be any SPARK there. THe pastor is talking in terms of a "new structure" that doesn't focus on programs, but on relationships... I think it is in the right direction, but with the wrong emphasis. He talked of easing people into the idea by asking them to evaluate their time spent every week and give 10% of the discretionary time directly to God for His purposes. But this sounds wrong to me! I think we need to focus on giving over 100% of our time to Him, and let Him order EVERYTHING we do. What if Moses said, "ok God, I'll help you, but I can only give you 10% of my time because the sheep need me." I don't think that a lifestyle of being the Body of CHrist is something you can ease into. I think it is a jump. I think we need to be PRAYING together first, and then giving all of our lives over to Him. In our Experiencing God study, they siad that if you look at the Bible, you see that people saw God's Hand in what CHristians were doing. Why was that? WHy didn't they just think that CHristians were "good people doing nice things"? -- Because they were doing GOD-SIZED TASKS. Why do people see Christians today, at best as being "good people doing some nice things", because we are not attempting GOd-sized tasks!! We are settling for less. We are giving Him 10 or less of our money, our energy, our time, and probably our hearts as well! Sorry, a little Tanya soapbox came out in that. But these are the things that have been on my heart lately. I want so badly to serve God in THIS meission field. At HOME, which is probably the hardest mission field, because people don't think they need anything, let alone God. Thanks again for all your words. I am heartened that I am not the only one seeing things this way. Let's be sold out to God together! Let's not settle for 10%, not settle for churches that have nice sermons and vacant stares on Sunday mornings! Only prayer and dedication can change this nation into one that seeks God, and that has to happen one heart at a time.. Let's get started today! | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 92 Registered: 5-2004 |
PraiseGod, I also wanted to say that I am in the process of adopting too,from China. (we actually considered the Ukraine very seriously first, then felt God lead us towards China. These are the only 2 programs we really considered at all.) I'd be interested to know how the transition goes for all of you... the kids, and the family. If you would be willing to share any of your experience, I would love to hear of it. I am trying to prepare myself for adopting a child, but know it will be so different from childbirth. How exciting! Congratulations, and my prayers are with your family as they add some new precious children! (I just looked back at my post and saw all the exclamation points, can you tell I am passionate about adoption? :0) | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 103 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tanya, donít you just love the Experiencing God class? Personally, I believe there is no way an Adventist who takes this to heart can remain an Adventist. It will take longer with some than with others, but once you start hearing from God for yourselfÖ. The rest is history. A few months ago I happened to stumble across a tape that caught my eye because I was so feeling in the wilderness about a specific church congregation. Since it was only $5 I ordered it. Iíve no idea about this preacher, but he shows some contemporary history of how much the Experiencing God book has changed the landscape of the Christian world today and just why he says that. I found it very interesting to listen to. Check it out at http://www.plumblineministries.com/inc/pdetail?v=1&pid=1724 Like I said, I know nothing about this ministry. You wonít agree with everything he concludes, but it is still helpful info IMHO. Write me offline and Iíll be glad to mention more about the adoption. You know how proud grandmas are! formersdadventist@yahoo.com. Praise GodÖ | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 163 Registered: 2-2002 |
I would recommend to anyone searching for a church that you consider finding one in your area that is offering the Alpha Course. Go online to alphacourse.org, and determine any churches in your area conducting this program. I find that most churches offering Alpha are very committed to ministry and seeking the lost. Just an idea. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 791 Registered: 11-2002 |
The Lutheran church where I attend offers the Alpha course every so often. I've gone through it twice. It's a wonderful program. It also is offered at numerous other churchs in my area. Colleen, You sure do go to a church with a lot of people. Don't you get a "lost in the croud" feeling with such a large population? The Seventh-day Baptst church I attended was down to a weekly group of 15-20 people. The Lutheran church I go to usually has around 75-100 people and the other Lutheran church I go to has an average attendence of around 10-15 people. I went to services several times at church where there are a lot of people at the services and I just got so depressed and down. I guess I just do't do crouds well. | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 94 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hello tealeaves and everyone, Iíve missed you all, just trying to catch up on the posts now. It is interesting to read what you people are experiencing in connection with the church, finding a good one, and it functioning as it should. I have just got back from my trip, and I have found just the same sort of things happening in Europe; the countries I have visited, and/or have knowledge of being Hungary, Germany, England and Wales. Praisegod, I like what you said about a paradigm shift in the concept of ìchurch.î This really seems to be something a lot of people here are thinking, and it is encouraging to hear that you are seeing the same things in America ñ at least it helps me think that maybe we are not nuts after all (well, not too much). If God is saying the same things to lots of people in lots of different places, maybe it is worth while taking notice. All I can say is, that this does seem to be a time that the church universal is going through a very powerful refining process, but donít be discouraged, keep on hanging out with people who are like-minded (like on this forum) and most important, just hang on to Jesus at all costs. God bless you all, Adrian | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 97 Registered: 5-2004 |
PraiseGod, My in-laws (both are SDA schoolteachers) said that their church went through the Experiencing God study last year, but they "got nothing out of it". WHile they were visiting us for a week and a half just recently, we did study out of it every night, and they said they were surprised to be getting so much out of it since "it didn't seem that insightful the last time they did it". I was surprised that anyone could do this study and not be moved, but I guess that goes to show you that the important part of any study is in the inviting of the PRESENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT to make it reach our hearts. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 383 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tealeaves, It could be because they were studying it through the SDA church and that is why they got nothing out of it. And I agree that the important part of any study is inviting the presence of the Holy Spirit to make it reach hearts. I will continue to pray for you and your parents. Diana | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 98 Registered: 5-2004 |
A phenomenon I have noticed in this area is that when a new church starts up there is a lot of interest. They meet in a borrowed building, they pray together, they are excited, and have a glimpse of the "new Testament church" feeling. then the excitement wears off as the church gets bigger and less relational, and people don't feel as "needed" by the group anymore. The original people start to drift as the pastoral staff starts to focus in on programs and a church building.... And those who were seeking for a real, relational experience with Jesus go to a NEW church start up. I have seen this many times. in fact, just a few weeks ago, we attended a little new group, and met a couple there that we had attended a small group with about 2 years before. They had since been in 3 churches. I see the obvious discontent with the status quo, and yet is seems that not many are really recognizing it as such. People are seeking Jesus, and when they aren't having a real experience with Him, they are moving on. | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2004 |
Is anyone attending a Sunday church and comfortable with the church teaching 10 percent tithe? My understanding after studying the New Covenant and reading posts on tithing on this forum is that teaching a percentage is clearly Old Covenant. I know some members of this forum attend churches where 10 percent is not taught. My husband doesn't consider it a big deal, so maybe the fact that it bothers me just means that I want everything to be correct doctrinally. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2004 |
I understand your concern, Busymom--I feel the same way. It especially seems crucial for us to find a church that teaches correctly about tithe being Old Covenant only, because that was the turning point for me--when my daughter asked about tithe and I researched it! Several of the Sunday churches we have checked out call the offering "Tithe and Offerings". I can't tell if this is a general terminology that doesn't mean it the way someone with an SDA background would take it. At the church we visited today, they mentioned tithe and offerings, and so we looked up on their website to see what their definition of tithe was. They did say that giving is different in the New Covenant and that Christians should be willing to give far more than 10% instead of being limited be a legalistic 10% as was required under the Old Covenant. I'm not sure if that made me feel better or not...maybe they just want a lot of my money! |
