National Sunday Law, Catholics & Jesu... Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Former Adventist Fellowship Forum » ARCHIVED DISCUSSIONS 3 » National Sunday Law, Catholics & Jesuits « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Archive through August 19, 2004Jenntooth20 8-19-04  9:31 pm
  Start New Thread        

Author Message
Hoytster
Registered user
Username: Hoytster

Post Number: 103
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 6:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, Jenntooth,

You are perfectly free to have a cross on your lawn, presuming that it is private property. If someone tried to prevent you from doing that, the ACLU would defend you on free speech grounds. Looking over the ACLU site, I found a case where the ACLU defended a woman who placed a 8x4 foot painting in her yard, which the town told her was a violation of their sign ordinance. A 15-foot cross might run into a similar problem, only I think that the first amendment would prevent the city from taking action against a religious symbol. Crosses on public property violate the amendment; crosses on private property are the epitome of freedom of religion and completely defensible.

I used to live in a town where there had been a fad of upending old-fashioned bathtubs, half-burying them in the yard, and placing a Madonna-and-child statue within, a mini-shrine. There was one about every fifth house, and no one protested.

Try putting up a cross! I think you'll find that your right to do so is fully protected.

Assuming you live in the US (as I do): Our country has the highest number of Christians in the world, 85%, about 225 million. Here's a link:

http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_christian.html

So there isn't any danger of Christianity going away in this country.

Now, if we could get the Christians to be more Christ-like, that would be great... but we would have to start out with agreeing what it means to be Christ-like. :-)

I don't see the world embracing Muslims and Jews. The Netherlands has recently taken measures to limit Muslim immigration, having found that their failure to adapt to Dutch values risks too much political strife. France did so years ago, and recently has forbidden the wearing of traditional Muslim head-coverings in the public schools. Israel is generally reviled throughout the world, witness all the UN resolutions against that state. It is only in the Security Counsel, where the US veto prevents it, that Israel is slammed only seldom. Europeans are manifestly sympathetic to the Palestinian movement, hostile to Israel. And anti-Semitism is on the rise there, in France and Germany.

There ARE places where Christians are being abused. On the horn of Africa, I believe, Muslims routinely take Christians as slaves. In the outback of Nigeria there is a province that has gone to Muslim law (I forget the word and never knew how to spell it anyway), and there Christians live in fear of being attacked on religious grounds.

Overall, however, I'd guess that Christians kill more Muslims than vice-versa. In Iraq, for example, the US has lost just under a thousand troops, compared to around 12,000 Iraqi civilians (see iraqbodycount.com) and at least that many Iraqi military deaths (I'm guessing - no source). The US troops are probably more than 85% Christian, since they draw disproportionately from blacks and hispanics, which are more religious than the general US population. So the ratio in Iraq is roughly 25 Muslims killed per Christian casualty.

In Kosovo, a predominantly Muslim locale, the US intervened to protect the Muslims against the Christians ( Orthodox Serbs and Croatian Catholics ) who were slaughtering them. There, at least, the US was on the side of mercy, in my opinion.

An example that really draws the picture starkly was when now-Israeli prime minister Sharon was then a general leading troops into Lebanon, and he allowed the Lebanese Christians to run amuck in a Palestinian refugee camp, indiscrimantly killing the Muslims therein. Being Christian is a very far cry from behaving LIKE a Christian, unfortunately.

It's best to be in the majority, whatever your religion. I think we're safe in the US.

- Hoytster
Bb
Registered user
Username: Bb

Post Number: 23
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 6:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dd, I posted last night, and don't know what happened to it. But I said that no, I won't be going to BSF this year. I'm sad about that. Maybe next year. I would love to discuss the topics with you! Let me know how it goes with Acts.
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra

Post Number: 169
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That Sunday Law stuff was my childhood horror. We talked about everything from being tortured, having our fingernails ripped out, whatever because of the Sabbath. Oh my, it still makes me so mad that I had to endure all of that crap.

I don't think I ever believed that probation closing thing, I always remembered "sins cast into the sea" guess I always had a mind of my own--Thank You Jesus!

I did stress over the torture though and read the "now" book over and over and the "Project Sunlight" yall remember that junk?

I went through a period where I always prayed to die before the Sunday laws and I know God showed me Rev. 3:10 and I memorized it and clung to it even though my religion teacher told me that was ancient history.

"Because you have set your love on Me, behold, I will keep you from the coming tribulation that is coming on the whole earth to test those that dwell on the earth"

If that aint a rapture verse I don't have a good one!
Krista
Registered user
Username: Krista

Post Number: 7
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All your posts are so interesting, thx!

Sabra, I looked up Project Sunlight to find R&H still sells this book and they say: "This unforgettable story about the love of God has transformed thousands of lives." (sounds unforgettable) Glad you're okay now.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear...



Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 501
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 9:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of the verses I remember is that my sins would be cast in the depths of the sea. Another is that God takes our sins from us as far as the east is from the west. Those two stuck with me after I forgot all about the IJ and all I studied. I cannot say exactly when I quit remembering all the IJ stuff. I know I used to pray that God would forgive me for my sins incase I forgot one.
But some where along the way I forgot all that nonsense and remembered the two texts I mentioned above.
Thank God. He is awesome.
Diana
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 502
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When typing the above I was thinking about the IJ even though I had just read about the Sunday Laws.
Could have been a senior moment!!!
That is one I had a hard time taking seriously, living in the country in which we live. It just did not make sense to me. As a kid it bothered me some what but again along the way I just ignored it.
Diana
Debandhenry
Registered user
Username: Debandhenry

Post Number: 17
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all,
Regarding the Jesutits, oh boy what a group of thugs, you must read "The Secret Terrorists," it exposes quite a lot regarding their sha-na-ni-gans.
And, here from www.johnankerberg.org;

In addition to being allied with major world figures such as Gorbachev and the Dalai Lama, Pope
John Paul has at his disposal a number of formidable institutions. One of the organizations assisting the Pope in his monumental undertaking is the Jesuit order, arguably the most restigious and powerful secret society of Roman Catholicism. This organization, referred to by some as the CIA of the Vatican, has been working closely with the papacy for centuries. Unlike other popes before him, John Paul has publicly acknowledged his undisputed leadership of this order, also known as the Society of Jesus. In an address to the society in October 1981, he reminded the Jesuits of their special vow of obedience to the office of the Pope.
Recently, with the help of a U.S. Congressmanís office, we were able to obtain a copy of the
ěCeremony of Induction and Extreme Oath of the Jesuitsî from the U.S. Library of Congress. The
following excerpts from this oath reveal the unquestionable loyalty of the Jesuits to the Pope and their commitment to eradicate Protestantism.

I,...Now, in the presence of Almighty God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed Michael the Archangel, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the holy apostles St. Peter and St. Paul and all the saints and sacred hosts of heaven, and to you, my ghostly father, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus...declare and swear, that his holiness the Pope is Christís Vicegerent and is the true and only Head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by virtue of the keys of binding and loosing, given to his Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical kings, princes,states, commonwealths and governments, all being illegal without his sacred confirmation
and that they may safely be destroyed. Therefore, to the utmost of my power, I shall and will defend this doctrine and His Holinessí right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority...and all adherents in regard that they be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome.
...I do further promise and declare, that I will have no opinion or will of my own, or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the Militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ.
...I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth...I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poinard [sic] or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus. In confirmation of which, I hereby dedicate my life, my soul and all my coporeal [sic] powers, and with this dagger which I now receive, I will subscribe my name written
in my own blood, in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands and my feet, and my throat from ear to ear, my belly opened and sulphur burned therein, with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul be tortured by demons in an eternal hell forever!
All of which I...do swear by the blessed Trinity and blessed Sacrament, which I am
now to receive, to perform and on my part to keep inviolably; and do call all the heavenly
and glorious host of heaven to witness these my real intentions to keep this my oath.

You can also go to the Library of Congress on line to see this.
Now do you see a meek minded, lowly, nice old Monk which would take this oath, they do if they are of the Order of the Jesuits.

God Bless,
Deb :-)
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 597
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Deb, thanks for finding the above! What strikes me is that the Adventists believe that the Jesuit vow is primarily targeting THEM as the enemy. I think not (especially after what I learned re: Robert Fokenberg's business dealings)!

Colleen
Debandhenry
Registered user
Username: Debandhenry

Post Number: 19
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 9:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is what I found on the "Blue Laws" and it is about the same as it was 4-5 years ago when the SDA's were all up in a stitch over the Popes letter.

1.)The Reader's Companion to American History
BLUE LAWS
State and local regulations banning various activities on Sundays are called "blue laws." The origin of the term is uncertain. It has been said variously to have originated in the color of the paper on which a code of laws for the early New Haven, Connecticut, colony was printed or to have derived from the concept of being "true blue" to the law. Whatever the origin, these measures, which are based on the biblical injunction against working on the Sabbath, have been traced back to fourth-century Rome, when Constantine I, the first Christian emperor, commanded all citizens, except farmers, to rest on Sunday. The first blue law in America was enacted in the Virginia colony in the early 1600s and required church attendance.

About three-fourths of the states still carry on their books laws imposing some kind of Sunday restriction on such activities as retail sales, general labor, liquor sales, boxing, hunting, or barbering, as well as polo, cockfighting, or clam digging. These laws have been challenged in federal courts as a violation of the Sherman Anti-trust Act and the First Amendment guarantee of freedom of religion. The Supreme Court has upheld them, starting with McGowan v. Maryland (1961), ruling that though the laws originated for religious reasons, the state has a right to set aside a day of rest for the well-being of its citizens.

Nevertheless, Sunday blue laws have declined since the 1960s. A number of states have repealed them, and many municipalities have long ignored those still on their books, simply choosing not to enforce them.

2.)Lawmakers Put to Rest Blue Law
Va. Session Ends After Three Hours
By Michael D. Shear and Chris L. Jenkins
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, July 14, 2004; Page A01
URL is;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46993-2004Jul13.html

3.)www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/9388073.htm
--------------------------------------------------
4.)*N.America
"In battle for Sunday, the 'blue laws' are falling"
by Sara B. Miller ("Christian Science Monitor," December 04, 2003)
URL;http://www.wwrn.org/parse.php?idd=9133&c=54

6.)And lastly, from my neighbor state across the Delaware Memorial Bridge in Wilmington, De. from the News Journal.
Blue laws a burden for other faiths

By GARY SOULSMAN
Staff reporter
07/20/2003

The nation's blue laws have long required people of non-Christian faiths to adjust their lives to accommodate Sunday observances and laws.

In the 1880s, Wilmington baker Samuel Gluck was taken to court by two bakers who accused the Jewish merchant of selling bread on Sunday. Gluck defended himself by saying that "Saturday was the Jewish Sunday," said Toni Young, a past president of the Jewish Historical Society of Delaware.

But the courts sided against the Jewish baker - he was found to be in violation of Delaware's blue laws and fined $5.

"In the Jewish community, there are all kinds of compromises that merchants and workers have had to make in terms of the Sabbath," Young said.

This year, the General Assembly discussed moving Delaware's primary from Saturday to Tuesday to avoid disenfranchising Jewish voters wishing to keep the Sabbath. The bill was tabled until January.

The move to Tuesday has been discussed for years but could not get support.

The issue was brought to a head last year when the primary fell on Rosh Hashana, one of the holiest days in Judaism.

For Muslims, there is a similar issue in that Friday is known as Jumah, or the meeting for sermon and prayer, said Najid Hussain of Bear. In Muslim countries, businesses typically close their doors on Friday to create time for collective meetings. Setting aside Friday for this purpose has been a practice since the time of the prophet, Muhammad.

"Muslims make their peace with American culture in the best way they can," Hussain said. "Religious-minded people may need to report to work, but if they can, they'll break free to come to the mosque Friday afternoon."

Several times in U.S. history, court cases have challenged the legitimacy of blue laws in light of the First Amendment, which prohibits the government from preferring one religion over another. The blue laws have been upheld.

In 1961, the Supreme Court ruled that blue laws have a secular purpose: to improve the "health, safety, recreation, and general well-being" of citizens.

"The court said, 'Forget the religious roots of these laws,' " said R. Collin Mangrum, professor of law at Creighton University. "It makes sense to have a day of rest. It doesn't matter if people worship on Sunday. They benefit from having the day off."

Since that ruling, lawmakers around the nation have moved to eliminate blue laws. As a result, Judaism, Islam and Christianity, are today on a more equal footing, Mangrum said

Isn't it nice to just have the faith of Jesus which is the Spirit of Prophsey and be happy with what we have and not look over our shoulder for every little thing....nit pickin!

Deb :-)



Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw

Post Number: 117
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm late on posting here, but I recall when I was in the SDA (1985-86), the SDA pastor was concerned about Pat Robertson's decision to run for president at the time. He felt Robertson would enforce Sunday laws and harass those who kept the sabbath. Paranoid!
Sheryl
Registered user
Username: Sheryl

Post Number: 4
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can remember my Dad telling us stories of what was going to happen to us when Jesus came back and the Sunday laws, being hunted down, taken to prison or being killed. I remember my two brothers and I crying for hours over this. Looking back at this, no wonder I had issues about how I viewed God. So sad.
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw

Post Number: 119
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 6:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sheryl, I know what you mean. I can't believe I actually fell for this foolishness of a Sunday law enforcement where sabbath keepers are persecuted or beheaded. Jesus was referring to his followers at the end times, which is even happening now in various countries. They are not being killed for their sabbath observances but for following Christ.
Jeannette
Registered user
Username: Jeannette

Post Number: 42
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had a pastor in NY who told us a story of when he and his wife had been missionary in Brazil.
His wife had friends in the military and she got them to go one sabbath morning during church service and pretend they were going to kill the members or were going to taking them to jail if they did not denounce the sabbath. After people were scared to death and some denied being members, the soldiers left and pastor J went on with his sermon about the universal sunday law. I thought this was a pretty sick joke on those poor people. I used to be so afraid of being away from my parents and siblings. I wondered what if the persecution got started and God sent them to a different mountain to hide and I could not find them. So many sleepless nights. Thank you Lord for opening our eyes to your truths and freeing us from all this persecution rubbish.
Jeannette
Dane
Registered user
Username: Dane

Post Number: 26
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All,
I've been out of touch for the last ten days. We moved our oldest daughter to Denver where she will be attending grad school at U.D. We also camped several days in the high country near Aspen. How magnificent His creation!

(I'm adding this note after I typed the rest of the post because I want to beg forgiveness in advance if I offend anyone. Such is not my intent.)

I read through some of the posts to catch up and decided to add a thought here. I too remember all the Sunday law scare tactics of SDA. From 1st grade through most of college I heard it repeatedly.

Historically this nation passed Sunday laws early on. This made sense to most people of the time since this was truly a Christian nation. The attitude was, "we created this society, so we'll make the rules". As far as I can determine there was little disagreement with these laws for the first 100 to 150 years. (I'm referring to the colonial period here)

As Deb mentioned above, there are a few such laws still on the books. However, given the anti-religious climate today I suspect that they would be easily eliminated if seriously challenged.

In my opinion the SDA positions on the issue are intellectually bankrupt for several reasons. First, the Catholic Church has lost most of its clout in the U.S. Second, most Protestants understand that the New Covenant does not require a day of worship. Third, our post-Christian culture would never accept it.

Deb's post about the Jesuits is interesting. This order of the Roman Church has had a bad rep in Protestant circles for centuries. They have been the subject of many books and articles, many of which are anti-Catholic polemics. Personally, I'm not convinced it is deserved. I'm not an expert on Jesuits, but I have read a few things about them. They have an interesting history and like any other religious group, you can find both positives and negatives.

One of the books I read was the book Deb mentioned titled, The Secrect Terrorists. We are all entitled to our own opinion, and my opinion is that this book is not reliable. I would place it the same category as "The Protocols of Zion" that came out around 1900 and claimed that there was a secret Jewish society that was taking over the world. Even though the book was completely debunked by competant scholars it is still circulated and believed by many. It's a great seller in neo-Nazi circles.

The reason I place "The Secret Terrorists" with "Protocols" is that both books were written in language calculated to intrigue, tantalize, and sensationlize. The language appeals mainly to emotions and not to the intellect. That is not the mark of a scholarly work of history as "The Secret Terrorists" claims to be but rather it is the mark of Yellow Jouralism. In addtion to this many of the sources are 100 years old or more and can not be adequately verified.

This brings me to the "Jesuit Oath". Yes, the Library of Congress does contain a document purporting to contain such an oath. However, the Library of Congress also comic books. The point is that just because something is in the Library of Congress does not mean it is a reliable document. Anyone can submit any copyrighted material to the Library by filling out the proper forms and paying a nominal fee.

Apparently there are several versions of the "Oath". Another version is found referenced in "The Secret Terrorists" and can be traced to the House Congretional Record of 1913, p.3216. Anyone can dig this up and read it and sure enough the oath is there, right in the Congressional Record. Must be true then I guess. Not necessarily. Politicians often read things into the record that are questionable or falacious. The context of the "Oath" in the Record is this. In the 1912(?) Congressional Race in Pennsylvania's 7th District the candidates, Butler and Bonniwell fought a diry campaign. Apparently some supporter of Butler circulated an anti-Bonniwell flyer that contained the Oath and attempted to connect it to Bonniwell. Bonniwell lost and protested the election. There was a Congressional inverstigation and many documents were submitted including the article with the Oath. Both candidates disavowed any knowlege of such an oath nor could anyone discover its origins or reliability.

Just because something is in the Congressional Record does not make it true.

I'm not trying to bash Deb or anyone else. I understand all to well the tendency to look at the Catholic Church with suspicion.

The only thing I'm trying to do is point out that if we make a claim against a person or an organization we need to have credible evidence. In my opinion there is not yet such evidence to demonize Jesuits. We all know that SDA constantly slurs all of us formers, and we are quick to take exception and demand hard evidence. All I'm asking is that we do the same when we are the ones making a claim.

Grace to all,
Dane

Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 650
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whether or not the Jesuits actually take the oath quoted above (it's possible they do, but I have no proof), God deals with each person individually. We all are evidence of God's choosing us and calling us to Himself out of evil--both our intrinsic evil and the corruption of Adventism.

Evil will wreak havoc through whatever structure or person it can control, whether that is militant Islam, Adventism, gangs, Mormonism--the face of the evil may look different depending upon the nature of the group or person sold out to it, but evil is evil, nonetheless.

We really have no need to fear any organization, nor is it our duty to figure out who we think will launch the coming persecution! I suspect it will look quite different, in many ways, than we ever imagined. But Satan is a defeated enemy. He cannot do anything God does not allow him to do, and God will never leave any of His people. While we are to be discerning and as wise as serpents but harmless as doves, we can completely rest in the certainty that God is in control.

Welcome back, Dane! Glad you had a good trip.

With prayers that we will rest in Christ as we walk into the unseen future,

Colleen
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 533
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sometime before I did not rejoin the SDA church, I had the idea that if I continued to have a growing relationship with Jesus, that I would not have to be concerned about the last days. I am sure God gave me that idea. I have not been concerned about it for a long time now. God has been good to me, bringing me to him, with my son and some of my brothers. I do not worry about the future. I live with God today and rest in Him on a daily basis, as that is the only way we can do it.
He is awesome.
Diana
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 903
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speeking of "the last days". Not long ago I was having a conversation with a sda kinfold. "The last days" was brought into the conversation. I said something about since none of us really know when our earthly days are over I try to live my life to God's glory as though every day is my last day. Once again I got belittled and put down by my sda kin that I "know what is ment by that term" and I shouldn't be trying to spin it into somethng that the term was never ment to be. Someone once told me one definition of insanity is when someone honestly believes everyone else s/he knows is crazy but s/he is the only sane one in the group. Then that one is really the crazy one. Well, when I heard that definition I just thought that when I am with a lot of sda's I really am the only sane one and whoever made up that definition of isanity hasn't been the only non-sda in a roomful of sda's.
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc

Post Number: 105
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan,

Don't worry, lots of people on this forum are clearly just as "crazy" as you are.

Adrian
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 656
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the chuckle, Adrian! Susan, good analogy! Hang onto that thought; in Christ, you can KNOW who you are and what truth is!

Colleen
Skip
Registered user
Username: Skip

Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dane wrote: "The only thing I'm trying to do is point out that if we make a claim against a person or an organization we need to have credible evidence. In my opinion there is not yet such evidence to demonize Jesuits. We all know that SDA constantly slurs all of us formers, and we are quick to take exception and demand hard evidence. All I'm asking is that we do the same when we are the ones making a claim."

But what if Revelation 13 does come to pass in the future but in a very different way than the Adventists thought? "What if" this control of the press we see today, this "propaganda" is just the start of something big that will one day bring in the "Thought Police?" Could George Orwell be right after all? "They" now have the laws they need to do everything that George Orwell said would happen in his book "1984." What if he was just 20 years too soon in his predictions? Secrecy now has won, and innocenet people can be locked up in Cuba and Iraq with no proof at all, other than the word of the Attorney General. If it can happen to Muslems it can happen to Baptists too!

Skip

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration