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Bb
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Username: Bb

Post Number: 15
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of 3ABN, I know a little about it since I have a relative who keeps in on 24 hours a day practically, and talks about the people on there as if I know them and they are family. Anyway, I heard that the guy who started it and his wife are divorcing. Apparently she left him for another man. Quite a scandal for the station. That of course is sad, and I don't rejoice in that, but I wonder about it. Apparently they called in all the SDA big names to counsel her and she refused to change her mind. The guy always struck me as odd. I can't remember his name, but he liked doing tricks like going to another "Sunday" church to sing or something, and then walking away with their offering plate, and saying "well, you don't think I should steal? then why don't you keep the 4th commandment?" or another time he said "Let me take YOUR wife home and you take mine home tonight". "Oh, you think that is more wrong than the 4th commandment?" You get the point, but a kind of weird way of trying to prove his point.
Sabra
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Username: Sabra

Post Number: 162
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...well, let them just keep up that behavior so everyone can see their real fruit.

Diana,

Money IS what they have to gain with EGW. If she goes, so do her books, cha-ching. If one little piece of the puzzle fails, the whole thing will follow, so they struggle to keep it all together and everyone in the dark. They DO know better (consciences seared with a hot iron)
Vchowdhury1
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Username: Vchowdhury1

Post Number: 17
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FYI everyone. Did you know that the "Desire of Ages", "Steps to Christ" as well as other books were actually written by EGW's assistant, Fanny Boulton? Most of EGW's books were not actually written by EGW. The ones that she did not plagerize were actually written by assistants, like Fanny Boulton and Marian Davis, whom she hired. These assistants were actually called "Booksetters". They would take a book with blank pages and cut out articles and portions of other books that were written by other authors, paste them in the book with the blank pages and before you can say plagerism, they had "their" book that they put EGW's name to. Did you know that Fanny Boulton was actually fired by EGW twice because she wanted to take artistic credit for the "Desire of Ages"? For more information on this please see www.ellenwhite.org. or www.truthorfable.com
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 566
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In fairness to Linda Shelton of 3ABN fame, I have read recently that she did not have an affair nor did she "run off"--although that has been the official rumor. Apparently there were deeper, longer-standing problems, and for some reason, if seems, her husband facilitated an effort to divorce her for "spiritual adultery". Their divorce was done quietly in Guam, and Linda, apparently, has been muzzled on pain of losing her settlement.

Yes, I've heard those stories of Danny Shelton's "object lessons", also.

I have to admit that all I've heard is second hand, and I can't vouch for the authenticity of any details. I don't want to aid and abet gossip, but I did feel that because the rumors of Linda's adultery abound, in fairness I had to say what I've heard from some reasonbly credible sources.

I really have no idea what's really been going on, but I know that I've felt compelled to pray for Linda periodically lately. It looks to me as if the Sheltons and those assoicated with them need to know the real Truth, and they need resolution and peace in their hearts.

You know, I also have had the thought that absolutely anyone can be deceived and find, "down the road apiece", that they have gotten 'way off track. The 3ABN situation also has made me realize that I (and all of us!) need to pray for God to protect me/us from deception, temptation, and arrogance, and to glorify Himself and keep my heart honoring Him.

And it's also true that if one is grounded in EGW and deception, rationalizing anything is that much easier.

Praise God that He gives us His Spirit, and that He doesn't let us rest when we are tempted or deceived, but He confronts and disciplines us!

Colleen
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 453
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is so easy to talk about the SDAs, seeing as I was one once. It is so easy to put them down, be sarcastic and all done with the attitude of I can so it because I used to be one. But when I do that I do an injustice to my Savior, who I say I want to follow, who I say fills me with the Holy Spirit. I can get quite arrogant still because now I know I do have the truth. That is not what God wants for me. I really have to ask Him to help me watch what I write about the SDAs. After all I do love them and pray for them and really want them to meet Christ.
I need to pray that God protect me from the sarcasm, arrogance and all such stuff. I truly do want to glorify Christ because He deserves it as He is so awesome.
Diana
Bb
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Username: Bb

Post Number: 16
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know, I did feel that I was perpetuating gossip, but that was not my intent. I really knew nothing except that second hand stuff, and that is good to have it clarified. I really wish them the best and have always thought she was such a sweet and sincere lady. I just had my misgivings about Danny Shelton. Thanks, Colleen, I had forgotten the names. Anyway, I am glad to have it cleared up. Like I said, I certainly didn't feel happy to hear of such a situation.

I do find that I sometimes want to find out things wrong with the people in the SDA church, and that is not a Christ-like spirit. I am thankful though to have this forum as it is uplifting to me and it is wonderful to have so many people that understand and are going through this transition out of the church.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 568
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do believe that ultimately God reveals the truth. I believe that He is behind the fact that so many people are discovereing the truth about Adventism, including the shady business dealings and the deceit in high places, so to speak. I also believe that He wants to bring people to repentance and to the experience of His forgiveness.

Some people will not repent; Jesus told the Pharisees just before his death that their generation would not be saved. He did not mince words, either. He exposed their sin, and He pleaded with them--but their hard hearts refused to respond.

I also believe that it is important for us--and also for others who read and need to know--that we can share with each other the fears, hypocrisy, craziness, etc. that we experienced. It is the truth of our lives, and the fact is that Jesus is redeeming that craziness and making something new out of us! The truth needs to be told.

Both our pastor and his wife often say, "God does not allow anyone to sin successfully forever." I am thankful that in His sovereignty and in His time He does reveal confusion and deception and that He gives people chances to pursue truth at these times of crisis and crumbling.

I've mentioned Larry Poland here before; he's the man who runs Master Media, a ministry for people in the entertainment industry. In a recent sermon he gave, he said, "Everyone who is lost is just one miracle away." Wow! That comment really put perspective on things!

I thank God for that miracle!

Colleen
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 457
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, your comments bring to my mind the verse of 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." God's patience is beyond my understanding. I am just glad He is patient. He patiently worked with me for a long time and He will be patient with others also. I like what you pastor said, "God does not allow anyone to sin successfully forever."
God is still in charge and all I have to do is my part with His help. I also need to remember His time is not my time.
He is awesome.
Diana
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 843
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Bb, There is some hostility with some Hawaiians towards non-Hawaiians. However, after I learned some of the Hawaiian history I could understand the hostility. I had mentioned to the high school geography teacher and his wife one day (They are whte. Most the students at that h.s. are ethnic Hawaiian) that I didn't understand the hostility because after all it was their own parents and grandparents who voted for Hawaii to become a state. But, I was wrong. Because at that time Hawaiians were not U.S. citizens they were not allowed to vote on statehood. Only U.S. citizens leagelly residing in Hawaii at the time were allowed to vote for or not if Hawaii should become a state. In fact, many people relocated from the Mainland to Hawaii and took out legal residendency there just in time so they could vote to make Hawaii a state. So, a lot of Hwaiians feel their islands were taken from them. However, if it wasn't for the United States, WW2 being what it was, if the US wouldn't have gotten the islands then Hawaii would probably belong to Germany or Japan now and frankly it's my opinion that the Hawaiians have it much better as a US state then they would if they were under German or Japanese rule. And, it's generally only the youth who are bent-outta-shape about things and that's just part of life. The horrid rap music that is played now with such violent lyrics is generally listened to by the youth. Most inmates in jails and prisons are at least young when they go in. Some grow old while incarcerated but most are young when they land there. And, look at the ages of the soliders being sent to Iraq. Most are between 19-25 years old. Youth have the viger, the adrenilin, the fearlessness to act without thinking about their own mortality. I only point these things out to let you know that we lived in a predominatelly ethnic Hawaiian locality. Once we learned their customs and what they consider to be proper behavior we got along with them very well, especially the older folks. They do have over there what they refer to Hawaiian Justice so one must not take advantage of a Hawaiian or a price will be paid and believe me the authorities will not notice. And, frankly I don't think that is a bad thing. Just like in Texas where people can carry concealed weapons and that knowledge alone of not knowing who has a gun keeps people honest, the Hawaiian Justice keeps people honest, out of fear but it works. Did you know that the largest cattle ranch in the US is in Hawaii?
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 844
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, I wanted to tell you all about my friend, Patsy. She is a full-blood, her term for being totally Hawaiian. She is totally smitten with egw. Reads egw books constantly, has egw books in her car. Goes to egw book studies every week. So, she owns an acre of land way out in the jungle, in a loction no one would ever be able to find unless having been there first and studies te landmarks on how to get back to her compound. I totally had to crack up at what she told me. She told me egw said in the last times there will be a great time of trouble for the people who have the truth and they will need to get away from the cities and flee to the wilderness. So, she figures since she needs to be in the wilderness because she's "of the truth" she might as well live in a location where she has lots of wild fruit trees and she can go surfing every day. She also pours pork blood over her rice, she thinks egw and her pork admonishment is for white people and it is not ment for Hawaiians and she drinks at least one cold pack per day and grows her own weed. She told me egw never said not to smoke weed and it's a cultural thing with Hawaiians and God wouldn't have given it to them if He didn't want them to use it. She is certainly a unique person and especially a unique Adventist! Oh, Patsy! She's really a tripper!
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 463
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan_2,
You triggered another memory for something EGW said. After I was divorced I went to an SDA singles weekend (that is another story). At that weekend I remember the pastor reading something about buying land out of the cities where SDAs could flee to.
Your friend Patsy sounds like a real character, a very interesting character.
Diana
Madelia
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Username: Madelia

Post Number: 73
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, so that is what happened to Linda Shelton. I had been wondering, because all of a sudden she was pulled from their little talk show, and one day Danny was on there with a long face, talking about how sometimes God gives us trials to go through,etc. Like others above said, I just wondered what happened to her. I thought maybe she was ill, but I'm sure they would have been forthright about that. Colleen, yes, I will pray for Linda also. And yes, I've heard Danny's arrogant object lessons and could hardly contain myself.

Colleen and Richard, I read Proclamation from cover to cover this weekend. What a blessing! I was very interested to read Jeffrey Helsius's (spelling?) resignation letter, since I live in MN. Has he posted his story anywhere? Do you know in what part of MN he was a pastor? I'm suspecting it must have been a rural area, if he had 4 churches.
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 849
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That theory about Cain being the orignater of the black race is what Herbert W. Armstrong taught, too. He said also that Noah's three sons founded the white, black and Aisian races. I forgot which one was what race but HWA taught that Noah's sons were each different races and God sent them to different parts on the earth after the flood. Never were the Native Americans addressed in any way. None, from the far north in the Trundra regions of Canada to the far south down in the lowesrt areas of South America. I guess those profits can't think of everything! Ha! Ha!
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 571
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Loved the pun, Susan!

Madelia, I don't know that Jeff Helsius's story is currently posted anywhere--that doesn't mean it isn't or won't be! The second half of his letter is really compelling; it deals with many EGW problems. No, I'm not sure where he was in Minnesota.

Colleen
Bb
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Username: Bb

Post Number: 18
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, that is hilarious! Imagine, a EGW thumping, weed smoking, pork consuming devotee!!
That goes to show you the wide and varied followers of this cult! I knew one who, about 15 years ago joined an off-shoot of believers who thought the SDA's had gone apostate, and they all went to Israel to await the 2nd coming. They wore head coverings and lived in caves, and swore that the adventists were lost because they were just preaching God's "Love" (this was said with distaste) instead of the "truth" of EGW!!! The one I knew finally came back, I don't know what she is into now (I'd rather not know!)

But yes, I have heard some of the tales of how the Hawaiians feel taken over by the whites. I think people just get used to the way things are over there. But interesting just the same! What island are those strange churches you visited? Sounds really remote and scary.
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 856
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 8:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Puna is a district on The Big Island. It is very remote and the people are quite tribal. We liked it. I tend to get along better with the offbeat, tribal people than I do mainstream "normal" city type of people. Where we lived was commune central. The natural area just lends itself quite well to communes. A group will buy an acra of land and because of the trees and brush they will be totally isolated, even though in actual distance there might be neigbors very close. About two miles from us was a Hare Krishna commune. We went to the Hare Krishna service nearly every week. Between our place and the Hare Krishnas was a Deadhead Commune. They had an awsome sound system. From my observation their lives consisted of working in their organic garden, eating their organic food, sleeping, boogying to Grateful Dead sounds and making lots of baby Deadheads. I like the Deadheads, too. Then in the other direction of us about a half-mile was a lesbian commune of around 40 lesbians. These were not your normal lesbians like regular people. These were some really hardass women. Me and my boys would be walking down the road and I'd smile and say "Good morning" to them and they'd come rub my back and get too close to my face for my comfort level and tell me good morning. But, when my sons would say "Good morning" to them they'd get right in front of my sons and spit. They were total man haters. At night we'd watch them do their witch thing around the fire singing, dancing and chanting to their goddess witches. They scared me. Land is cheep there. The realitor in town wanted $15,000 for an acre, only $150 down and payments of $100 per month. You can't have indoor plumbing so hepititis is epidemic there. The trees and brush is so thick that these people will buy an acre and then live in a tent on their land while they work their asses (Am I allowed to use that word on here?) off clearing a spot to put in a house. The houses are generally from kits and they are way high on stilts. At that price and with the work that needs to be done if 10 people pool their money and energy they can have a decent place even tho each one alone woud be in much poverty. And, out in the middle of this area is the Puna SDA church. This is not an area of Hawaii that tourists generally go to.
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 858
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bb, My mother mentioned yesterday to me about an ad in the Review around 55 years ago. A SDA doctor and his family had purchased a home back in the wlderness in Southern California. He had placed an ad in the Review because while he was living and working in the city he needed a care-taker for the property so his family could use the place for their vacation home until they had to relocate there permanately due to The Time of Trouble. My mom brought this up when I told her about Patsy. She remembered it because my dad always like the mountains so much so she had asked my dad if he wanted to apply for the position. My dad had told her no, because where would him and my mom go when The Time of Trouble came? Would the SDA doctor and his family kick out my parents? Then I got to thinking about this because the place was total wilderness back then but now that area is a huge metropolitan city. So, are the SDA's who bought wilderness property for their hide-a-way way back years ago supposed to sell it now that the areas are all urbanized and purchase land even further in the wilderness?
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 587
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, your point reminds me of Richard's musings regarding Ellen's choosing Loma Linda as the site of a health conditioning center. He said he used to wonder, as an Adventist, if she really were a prophet of God, wouldn't she have known that in a few short years, Loma Linda would be embedded in a huge urban area with mamy days of extremely unhealthy air quality every year?

The whole issue became clear to him when he finally learned the truth about Ellen!

Colleen
Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 133
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did you know that before Los Angeles was settled, the Native Americans called that area the "valley of the smokes" because the smoke from their fires never left, it just hung over the area in a haze.

You'd think someone might have taken note of that before they built a huge city there, huh?.............
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 593
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You'd think...I think, though, that Ellen may have had some ulterior motives. There is some fascinating but (as far as I know) unpublished research that EGW and her husband James had links to Mormonism. There seems to be evidence that James and Joseph Smith both had spiritual wives (a known Mormon phenomenon), and their spiritual wives were sisters by the last name of Daggett.

Sometime after Joseph Smith was murdered, the Daggett sisters moved to California, and the small desert town of Daggett is named after them. There is apparently some historical record that shows EGW visited Daggett on her famous trip to California where she put the divine stamp of approval on Loma Linda as God's choice for a health facility. At the time of the church's purchase of the land that became Loma Linda, San Bernardino (which borders LL and Redlands) was a Mormon city whose Mormon headquarters were about 2-3 miles from downtown Loma Linda in what is now the Asistencia Mimssion in Redlands.

As I said, I can't point you to a printed source, but I've communicated with the woman who has been doing this ongoing research connecting EGW and Mormonism for over two decades. I can't prove it, but the similarity between many of EGW's early visions and Joseph Smith's visions is eerie.

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