| Author | Message | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 144 Registered: 4-2000 |
THE MINISTRY OF DEATH "But if the ministry of death, IN LETTERS ENGRAVED ON STONES, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For indeed what HAD glory, in this case HAS NO GLORY because of the glory that SURPASSED it" (2 Cor. 3:7-10 NASB). PERVERSION OF THE GOSPEL "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel CONTRARY to what we have preaced to you, HE IS TO BE ACCURSED! As we have said before, SO I SAY AGAIN NOW, if any man is preaching to you a gospel CONTRARY to what you received, HE IS TO BE ACCURSED!" (Gal. 1:8-9 NASB). JOYFUL CELEBRATORY WORSHIP "CLAP your hands, all you peoples; SHOUT to God with LOUD songs of JOY" (Psalms 47:1 NRSV). FAITH BRINGS SALVATION "For CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES" (Rom. 10:4 (NASB). "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God: NOT AS A RESULT OF WORKS, so that no one may boast" (Eph. 2:8-9 NASB). SPIRIT-LED LIFE "...if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does NOT belong to Him" (Rom. 8:9 NASB). ADOPTED CHILDREN OF GOD "The Spirit Himself testifies with OUR SPIRIT that WE ARE CHILDREN OF GOD" (Rom. 8:9 NASB). "God never changes his mind about the people he CALLS and the things he GIVES them" (Rom. 11:29 NCV). "And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. HE WHO HAS THE SON HAS THE LIFE;he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who BELIEVE in the name of the Son of God, so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life" (1 John 5:11-13 NASB). THE DUALISTIC NATURE OF MAN "We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would PREFER TO BE AWAY FROM THE BODY AND AT HOME WITH THE LORD. So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it" (2 Cor. 5:7-9 NIV). "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the BODY, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, WHICH IS BETTER BY FAR; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the BODY. Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, so that through my being with you again your joy in Christ Jesus will overflow on account of me" (Phil. 1:21-26 NIV). May God bless the reading of His Word! Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 869 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear Dennis, Please explain the first text you wrote-2 Cor.3:7-10.do not understand what it is referring to. I have another that I will put on here. I have to look it up. It, too is on topic I'd never heard adressed in an Adventist church. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 600 Registered: 12-2003 |
Susan, I'm not Dennis, but I'll attempt to explain what I understand the text to mean. Paul is referring to the Mosaic covenant when he speaks of "the ministry of death". He calls it that because the law says if a person does not keep the law, he will die. Of course, no one can keep the law, so all are condemned to death. The ministry of the Spirit is the new covenant which Jesus keeps for us, and we live by the Holy Spirit, righteous in God's eyes because of Christ's righteousness covering us. Paul is saying that the old covenant came in glory--God's presence was on Mt Sinai in the form of fire--and when Moses came down that mountain, his face was glowing with the glory of God. It was so bright that Moses put a veil over his face so people would not watch it fade. (see Exodus 34:29-30) The new covenant, Paul is saying, comes with much more glory than the old covenant had. Instead of its glory fading away like it did on Moses' face because he left the physical presence of God, we stand with unveiled faces with increasing glory because the Spirit of God is in us and is not leaving but is changing us increasingly into His likeness. Thanks for the great texts, Dennis! Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 145 Registered: 4-2000 |
Susan, The only "letters engraved on stones" were the Ten Commandments. I like the treatment that Bob George gives this topic as follows: "Remember, the law shows man his need, but not the solution. Its purpose was to bring people the knowledge of their sin and guilt so that they would turn to Jesus Christ as Savior. Immediately after saying, "Who will rescue me...?" Paul rejoices with "Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!" (Romans 7:25). When Christians are living under law, the results are the same as they have always been. And it doesn't matter whether you are trying to live up to God's laws, man-made laws, or even your own self-imposed standards. The result will be fear, guilt, frustration, and feelings of condemnation. You will experience a lack of ability to love God or men. How can you love a God that you are laboring to please but never can? And when you are feeling continual guilt and condemnation, how can you be kind and forgiving to other people? When they appear to be doing well, you envy them. When they fail, you judge them. After all, why should I let you off the hook if God is hammering me every time I blow it? That's the way you think under the law. Under the law you never experience peace or rest in the Christian life. Why? Because your work is never done. A "spiritual restlessness" results, where you are always looking for the "something more" that will transform your Christian life into reality. It's always around the corner: at the next seminar, in the next book, in finding that spiritual experience--never resting in Christ Himself who lives in you, who has already done it all, who has already given you everything you need. Under the law we become hyprocrites. The word comes from the Greek theater. A hypocrite is not an imperfect person; a hyprocrite is an actor, a pretender. What made the Pharisees hyprocrites was not their faults: It was their pretense that they were righteous. It was teaching one thing and doing another. But that is what the law will always produce: people who are always hiding their real selves, always acting, always pretending, never being real. In all my years as a Christian, I have never heard anyone say, "I've had it! I quit! I am sick to death of the love and grace of God. I'm sick of other Christians loving and accepting me. I'm giving up this Christian life." No, I've never heard that. But I couldn't count the number of Christians I've known who have given up because of being under law, who have been broken by the crushing burden of trying to be good enough to earn God's acceptance, who have been mangled by the competition, the judging, and the demands to conform to some group's standards. "We'll accept you if you look like, walk like, talk like, and actd like us." And the implication is always, "And God will, too." You will find that characteristic of legalists is that they always want to "cherry pick" their favorite laws. Nobody ever tries to keep them all; they just want to hold onto their favorites. It takes only one law to spoil the entirety of grace. You can't be trusting what you do and what Jesus Christ has done at the same time! Paul finishes his argument witha shocking statement: "You who are trying to be justified by law have...fallen away from grace" (Galatians 5:4). This verse has been taken out of context countless times to threaten Christians that they will lose their salvation if they commit too many sins. That is a tremendous error. First, the phrase "fall away from grace" has nothing to do with losing your salvation. YOu can clearly see from the context that it means to fall out of the freedom of grace back into the slavery of the law! Second, it's not those Christians who have committed certain sins that have "fallen away from grace." It says, "You who are trying to be justified by law" are the ones who have fallen from grace. In other words, the very people who would maintain that you can either gain God's acceptance by your performance or lose it by your failures are the ones this verse it talking about. LEGALISTS are the ones who have fallen from grace!" (Excerpts from Bob George's book, "CLASSIC CHRISTIANITY: Life's Too Short to Miss the Real Thing") Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 53 Registered: 5-2004 |
Dennis, Thanks for posting the excepts. I can see that I'm going to have to read that book, but the points you put above were such an inspiration today. Just what I was needing. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 83 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dennis - thanks! I just spent a long weekend with my parents...I am printing your thoughts and shared excerpts...God is so good to have lead me to this forum. Thank you for being His willing instrument! | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 24 Registered: 7-2004 |
Any idea how these verses have been sanitized in the Clear Word? Do the changes take away all of the punch? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 610 Registered: 12-2003 |
Good question, Ric--but I don't have a Clear Word to look them up! Thanks for the wonderful quotes, Dennis! Bob George explains true Christianity so very clearly and with such hope. Classic Christianity was a watershed book for me about four years ago. I highly recommend it! Colleen | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 86 Registered: 7-2004 |
Ric - Here is the Clear Word's version of the texts that Dennis shared above. Some of what I have read so far has been a bit of a surprise. I will type it out just the way it is in the Clear Word (all the !'s are what is there). My parents gave me the Clear Word 6 years ago when I started my BSF study! (You can't just study the Bible at a Bible study!!) This is the first time I have really looked at CW texts. I am surprised because I find fault in very little and agree with a great deal of the "paraphrasing". I was shocked about the blatent reference to Paul seeing Christ upon his death in Phil.1:23. I would suppose, though, the SDA meaning is seeing Christ upon His second coming? I am interested in everyone's thoughts...(please forgive the typo's as I type this fast) 2 COR. 3:7-10 - "(7)The good news of salvation was spelled out in the Old Testament at the time God wrote the commandments on tables of stone and told them to build Him a Sanctuary. Those events which were accompanied by incredible glory are today misunderstood and misapplied by the Jews until they sound as if God pronounced a death sentence on mankind. When Moses came down from the mountain, the Israelites couldn't even look at him, his face was so radiant with glory. But that glory had to pass away and the glory of Christ had to come. (8)When you think of what the Holy Spirit is doing and what He's writing on people's heart, isn't that more glorious than God writing His law on table os stone? (9)If a system of religious services which contained only promises of salvation and in itself could not give life was so full of glory, how much more glorious is God's offer of salvation today now that those Old Testament promises have been fulfilled and ratified by Jesus Christ! (10)Because of the glorious act of God giving His Son to dies for us, the Old Tesament services are not at an end." GALATIANS 1:8,9 - "(8)Let me tell you, if anyone-even an angel from heaven-comes to you and tells you something different from what we have told you, let him be eternally condemned! (9)I want to repeat what I just said. If anyone preaches a different gospel or brings you a different message than the one you received from us, let him be eternally condemned!" PSALM 47:1 - "Clap you hands! Shout for joy! Everyone sing to the Lord with a voice of triumph!" ROMANS 10:4 - "Christ's sacrifice should make it evident that law-deeping is not a means of salvation. Righteousness comes from Christ, not from law-keeping." EPHESIANS 2:8,9 - "(8)It's because of God's grace that we are saved though [Clear Word's typo] faith and not because of any goodness in us or any works on our part. It is a gift from God. (9)It certainly has nothing to do with what we ourselves did to earn it or we would be able to brag about saving ourselves." ROMANS 8:9 - "If you let the Spirit of God live in you, you no longer operate under the control of your sinful nature but under the control of the Spirit. If a person doesn't have Christ's Spirit, he doesn't really belong to Christ." ROMANS 11:29 - "God's gift of salvation and His call to accept it has never changed." 1 JOHN 5:11-13 - "(11)But we believe what God said when He told us that He has given us eternal life through His Son. (12)Anyone who believes in the Son of God has eternal life, and anyone who does not believe in the Son of God does not have eternal life. (13)I wanted to point these thruths out to you so you will know that as soon as you believed that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and accepted Him as your Lord and Saviour, you were given eternal life." 2 CORINTHIANS 5:7-9 - "(7)Actually, we are not away from the Lord. He is present, not to sight but to faith. (8)That's what faith is all about. We would like to be there with the Lord rather than being here. (9)But whether we are here or there isn't the point. Our great desire is to be more like Christ and to show Him how much we love Him by obeying Him." PHILIPPIANS 1:21-26 - "(21)If I'm released, it will be to the glory of Christ; if I receive the death sentence, it also will be to the glory of Christ and maybe even more so. (22)If I could choose to live I would, and I would go right back to work for the Lord, but I don't have that choice. (23)So I've been wrestling with mixed emotions. On one hand, I would prefer to be sentenced to death and in the next moment of cousciousness see Christ, which would be much better than staying here in this old world. (24)On the other hand, it's more important for me to stay here and continue helping you. (25)From what I've heard, I'm convinced that I'll be released and have the joy of watching you progress and grow stronger in the faith. (26)I know you'll be glad to see me again, and together we'll encourage each other in the Lord." | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 87 Registered: 7-2004 |
I AM SO SORRY!!! TYPO ALERT!!!! The amazing thing is that I typed what I thought the CW/SDA thought would be BUT it is a correct Biblical translation in my mind.... 2 Cor. 3:10 - "Because of the glorious act of God giving His Son to die for us, the O.T. services are NOW (typo "not" is wrong!) at an end." ISN'T THAT CALLED NEW COVENANT BELIEF???? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 617 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dd, thank for the Clear Word quotes. The 2 Corinthians 3:7-10 quote above that states that because Christ gave His Son, the OT services are at an end is true as far as it goes. But Blanco (and Adventists) mean that the sacrifices and sanctuary rituals ended, not the administration of the enitre Mosaic covenant. Further, in the NIV and NASB it is clear that Paul is calling the law engraved on stones a "ministry of death." Blanco completely leaves that out. Further, Blanco reworded the passage to say that what God gave Moses is misapplied and misunderstood by the Jews so much that it sounded as if God had condemned them to death. Well, He had! Every single human is born condemned to death, and only by accepting Jesus is he brought to life. Further, the law is clear that every single person who ever broke the law was condemned to death. That's why we needed a Redeemer! Blanco has completely stripped the meaning from this passage and has removed the core message that the law and the Mosaic covenant was a covenant of fading glory, but the new covenant has surpassing glory, and its glory will last--not ever fade away! Also, Blanco really did butcher the meanings in the 2 Cor. 5 and the Philippians 1 passages above. Blanco says, "Actually we are not away from the Lord. He is present, not to sight but to faith." The NIV says (v. 6b) "As long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord." Then, Blanco says, "We would like to be there with the Lord rather than being here. But whether we are here or there isn't the point. Our great desire is to be more like Christ and to show Him how much we love Him by obeying Him." The Bible says, "We would prefer to be AWAY FROM THE BODY and at home with the Lord." Then Paul really shocks our former Adventist sensibilities by saying, "So we make it our goal to please him, WHETHER WE ARE AT HOME IN THE BODY OR AWAY FROM IT." Blanco completely leaves out that message. IN the Philippians passage, Blanco changes "I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far" to "I would prefer to be sentenced to death and in the next moment of conciousness see ChristÖ" If one is reading doctrinal passages in Blanco without the Bible nearby, it seems reasonable. If you compare it to the Bible, however, it's clear that the nuances and meanings are changed. It's so subtle but powerful. It reminds me of what one of our Friday night study group said: "Ellen is full of wonderful truths, but there's poison in her." And the poison will kill you. Blanco's twists are straight from Ellen's theology. Colleen | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 95 Registered: 7-2004 |
You're right, as always, Colleen. What surprised me when I opened and read it is how carefree it all sounds, with !'s and 's. And in and of it's self, each verse alone does seem very innocent. The only one that really hit me wrong from my quick read over as I typed was the 2 Cor. 5:7-9 about obeying Him to be more like Him. That was less subtle. Speaking of subtle...yesterday I was in my daughter's 7th grade (SDA) classroom. The teacher had a poster up that said, "You are the only author of your life". I told the teacher that the poster would make me depressed if I didn't know that the true Author of my life was a God that loved me unconditionally. Thanks for breaking down these verses, Colleen. My radar is up for the small, subtle, misleading "truths". |
