| Author | Message | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 23 Registered: 7-2004 |
My fiance' went to church with me on Sunday but she wouldn't take communion. Every time that she has been to church with me on communion which is like 5 or 6 times, she never takes. She says something about not taking it if there is someone somewhere that you have not made up with. Personally, I thought the purpose of cleansing your heart and praying to God before consuming the bread and wine was to empty your heart and atone with God, therefore making you able to commune. Am I wrong? Is she wrong? Or is this another SDA quality that she is exercising? | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 446 Registered: 7-2003 |
B has taken communion at my church, so I would say it is personal...but it could just be an oddity on his part. Does she take it at hers? Seems if it really is a heart issue for her, that heart issue would exist at her church as well. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2004 |
That sounds like an excuse to me. Does she do communion at the SDA church? When I was engaged to my husband, over 20 years ago, I was trying to win him over to SDAism, but attended the Lutheran church with him occasionally. I would never participate in communion at the Lutheran church, even when he assured me the very center cups were grape juice, while the rest were wine. I had no clear cut Biblical reason not to participate. There was just a very strong feeling that since I thought only SDA's were the correct church, it couldn't possibly be a genuine communion experience anywhere else. Since that time, my husband became SDA (before our wedding date). Even though he saw the problems with SDA and was no longer one in his heart from about 3-4 years into our marriage, he continued to participate as an SDA until I finally saw the light just recently and we are now both former SDA's. Anyway, very recently, I had the opportunity to actually participate in my first communion in a non-SDA church, and I found I still couldn't do it!!! They had a big loaf of bread that people went up and tore off a piece and dunked it in the big cup of grape juice (this was an American Baptist church), and then ate it. I was even okay that the bread had yeast in it (though I wouldn't have been okay with that earlier), but I thought the Bible said to DRINK the wine or juice, not dunk your bread into it! I know it's silly, but I guess some people just have a hard time if things aren't exactly what they're used to, and then have a hard time admitting that's the reason. One of these days, I will participate! Although I still doubt I would be able to participate if there were only wine available. I've never had alcohol in my life, and even though I know there is not a Biblical requirement for abstinence from alcohol, I can't bring myself to do that. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 28 Registered: 7-2004 |
Is your fiance a former or a practicing Adventist? There is counsel in the NT that if there is someone that you have unresolved business with you should go to that brother or sister and make things right with them before partaking in The Lord's Table. The Adventist habit is to make a big deal about that particular statement. Perhaps you should ask her if there is a situation in her life where she has unresolved issues with a particular person and then help her to make contact with that person. It also could be that she has had a falling out with someone and there may be no mending of that fence. I would hate to see her passing over the blessings of the Lord's Table because a relationship has come to an end. I remember as a little girl seeing this or that person sit in a remote part of the church and seeing them refuse to participate because they were afraid the Lord would strike them with some malady because they had unresolved issues. If your fiance has done all she can to make whatever reconciliation efforts she can, that is all she can do. She is free to partake. The text in question doesn't say that she has to make up with the person she is having a problem with, only that she has made the effort to resolve things. Perhaps she is afraid to partake because she heard that text quoted so often. 1 Corinthians 10 and 11 have Paul's counsel about the proper breaking of bread. I know that the Adventists often combine these counsels with Jesus' statement that a person should make peace with his brother before presenting his offering at the altar (Mat. 5:23). Perhaps the information is in there. These texts only say that you need to extend the olive branch. They don't say that the other person has to take it. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 27 Registered: 7-2004 |
Ok, I need to make a confession here. The real reason I didn't participate in the recent non-SDA communion service is not because the Bible says to DRINK the wine or juice, even though that was indeed the excuse I gave. The real reason was because I think it is gross to eat bread that is soggy with juice! Regarding not participating because of having an unresolved issue with someone, I have heard that text quoted a lot. However, I have never once let that keep me from participating in an SDA communion service and have personally never known anyone who has. | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 142 Registered: 5-2004 |
I think communion becomes quite a personal matter for some people. A friend of mine found a church she really likes but isn't going to go there anymore because they take communion every Sunday, and she thinks that is too often. She also believes that you have to be 100% reconciled with everyone before you take communion. When we talked deeper about it, she found that her real reason for not liking their communion was that it was a very personal, meaningful, reverent experience for her when she was young, and she thought they took it too lightly. I tend to think that when Jesus wanted us to remember His sacrifice EVERY TIME we eat and drink. I think that is why He picked something as mundane, frequent, and essential as eating and drinking to use as symbolism. So while I do take communion in the traditional church sense from time to time, (except for the bread, since I am allergic to wheat), I think of it in a slightly different light than many others. My thinking on this is part of the reason that when my husband and I started a Thursday night gathering at our house, we decided to serve dinner, and provide a time for people to sit and eat and talk about what God has been doing in our lives. (the gathering is mostly Christians, friends from different churches in the area, that come, eat talk about God, sometimes we do a little Bible study, we pray for each other, and talk about the needs that we have, or that we know of, that we can get together and try to meet. We talk about how to love people to Christ.) Somebody requested that we do an intimate little communion, one on one, at one of our meetings. So we probably will, but I tend to think personally that we are already doing communion, on an informal, but very meaningful basis, every week. -Different people, different perspectives on communion, huh? | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 143 Registered: 5-2004 |
Raven, take a peek at the Lord's Supper passages in Matthew and Mark. They also talk about "dipping the bread into the bowl" at that same supper. That was a common way to eat at the time. Maybe that is where that church got the idea to dip? (Or maybe they judt didn't want to deal with all those little individual cups every time... ;0) | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 447 Registered: 7-2003 |
Don't worry, Raven. I don't like ice cream on cake for the same reason...I don't like soggy cake....or bread! :-) | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 28 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thanks, Melissa. I was glad to hear from the pastor that this church only does communion this way occasionally, and that the first Sunday of every month is a more traditional communion. I definitely plan to participate in that! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 605 Registered: 12-2003 |
I suspect that your fiancee, Hrobinsonw, has a couple of things going on as Melissa and also Raven and Tanya mentioned. First, the SDA church does (at least in some churches) make a big deal about being reconciled if one is to be able to take communion. They don't enforce this reconciliation, but they do talk about it. Second, I'll just bet that she has a deep-seated feeling that she can't take communion at a non-SDA church, and the reconciliation thing is her excuse to hide the fact that she feels it's wrong to take communion at a Sunday church. Third--and this is a guess based on some of the things you've said previously--she may really feel she is not saved, and communion may be really uncomfortable for her. I have come to believe that communion seems ritualistic and insignificant to people who do not know Jesus personally--or, if they've drifted far from him, it's probably guilt-producing. I know that I would not take communion at my friend's Episcopal church the first time I went with her because I somehow believed it was wrong--it was somhow "popish", or something. I suspect several things are at work in your finacee, Hrobinsonw. Just my guess. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 871 Registered: 11-2002 |
I love Communtion. It is the highlight of the service. I endour the entire service so I can finely get Communion. I attend a local Lutheran church. Where I go we have Communion the first and third Sundays of the month. Then the other Lutheran church in town has it the second Sunday of the month so I go there on the second Sundays. Even when I was young and was still highly influenced by the SDA church I would go to chuches just so I could partisipate in Communion. I would stand in the back of churchs and then only take part in the Communion part of the service and then scurry away. I know SDA's (as well as others) who say that Communion is to be taken only one per year on Passover. But, that is not how I read the Bible. I think SDA's generally believe that one must already be free of all sin before being pure enough before God to take part in Communion. In the Lutheran tradition (as well as all Christaniy, as I understand it) we come before The Lord's Table with a pure and contrite heart and then the minister says the words that Jesus said to His desciples and at that point a total wave of awsome peace comes over me. At the Lutheran sometimes Communion is with a wafer and wine, sometimes bread dunked into the wine, sometimes the wine is with a communal challice, sometimes we break off a piece of bread from a big loaf of bread, it's different every time. I would not use levened bread though. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 376 Registered: 7-2003 |
One other possibility: Many SDA's feel it is somehow wrong to participate in communion without first participating in foot washing. I recently attended a communion at CVC in Lincoln where the head pastor admonished everyone to go receive the cleansing of the foot washing because according to him, "just like all good children we can only come to the table with clean hands". Some SDAs see the foot washing ceremony as kind of a mini-baptism or a commemoration of baptism (which in turn many see as a cleansing event.... to such a degree that some feel compelled to repeat baptism several times). Chris | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2004 |
Chris--How true, there is clearly a strong desire among SDAs to be absolutely certain that they have been cleansed. Repeated re-baptisms and footwashing taught as a mini-baptism are clear examples. I always thought it sad that in so many SDA churches communion services have the lowest attendance of the year (sometimes even worse than the leftovers from campmeeting). I often wondered about this as an SDA. Having been raised Lutheran, it was the non-communion weeks that had less people. I know think that many SDAs just have "issues" with communion. Perhaps it has something to do with being reminded that we are sinners and Christ suffered and died for us. And is that the real reason why we don't see crosses in most SDA churches? | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 144 Registered: 5-2004 |
I know some SDA women who said they didn't go to the communion services because they didn't like anyone to see their feet. (fungus, warts, ingrown toenails, or even just that they didn't have time to put on presh toenail polish.) Maybe some men feel that way too, and could account for the low attendance! ;o) | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 377 Registered: 7-2003 |
I think part of the low attendance has to do with a perception that you need to be "worthy" of taking communion and that all your sins need to be confessed, wrongs put to right, etc. I never really felt worthy of taking communion and preferred to avoid it rather than take it and feel hypocritical. This totally misses the point of communion. The Lord's supper is a celebration of His finished work, a celebration of the fact that He has forever removed our sin from us and we are now perfect in the sight of God through His blood. I just never really understood this growing up. Chris | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 873 Registered: 11-2002 |
My parents (SDA) never even once took part of Communion in the SDA church that I remember. However, several years ago me and my mom were at a Seventh-day Baptist church one Saturday mrning when they had Communion and my mom took part in it. It was the first time I'd ever known one of my parents to take part in a Communion service. Which brings me to anther question-I recently asked the local SDA minister if he'll go to the house or the hosptial when a member of his SDA congreation is dying and have a Last Communion with the person. He told me flat out that no, he will not do that. He will go to the home or hospital though and have prayer. I just feel sad for the SDA's, they seem to have such a miserable, joyless religion. My car was not working for awhile and I missed church for several weeks and the church secretary called and asked if I was o.k., that I was being missed at church. I told her the car was not working and that I'd be coming again after I had it fixed. She asked me if I wanted the pastor to come to my house and have Communion with me. And to think the SDA minister won't even do this with somone from his cogreation who is dying! | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 52 Registered: 5-2004 |
I agree with Chris on the perception within the church that you must be "worthy" to participate in communion. That doesn't mean that you come sinless, but I've heard many a sermon focus on the cleansing of the footwashing. The effect is that you feel the need to be right with God prior to participating in communion. Though not a bad thought now that I think about it. The term "right with God" has a completely different meaning now that I'm in a different frame of mind, rather than the implied "keeping yourself pure by keeping the law". Even though we didn't know we were having issues, I can look back now and realize that we weren't feeling connected to God for the last couple of years with Adventism. We had started skipping out on communion shortly after we were married. Shortly after God started us studying, once I realized I WAS saved once I believed, I had a strong craving for taking part in communion. Isn't it amazing what God has done for each one of us? How He's lead us out of darkness and into the light. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 609 Registered: 12-2003 |
Of course, Chris--foot washing is very likely part of the problem! (Wow, have I been out so long I forgot the impact of foot washing?!) I do remember the feeling that one couldn't really take communion without foot washing first. Sunday church communion services were not "true" communion because they didn't practice it like Jesus told us to! My growing-up SDA memories of communion are mostly of a solemn, guilt-producing service that left me feeling unworthy and "icky", for want of a better word. During the years before we left it wasn't quite so bad because our church had a family room for foot washing, and I didn't have to try to nab a friend or find a stranger to wash feet with. (Richard informed me after one family foot washing, though, that Ellen had said men should not wash women's feet, and vice-versa--even husbands and wives--because of the "animal passion" problem. I found that astonishing and went home and looked it up. Sure enough, I found it, but that never stopped us. Unfortunately, I can't remember where she wrote that bit of advice--probably one of the Testimonies. ) The meaningful-ness of the bread and wine, though, was usually marginal. It's hard to celebrate communion when you only hope you're saved. Praise God for Jesus' finished work! Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 386 Registered: 1-2003 |
My parents either left or if they remembered it was the 13th Sabbath didn't attend that day. If we did end up staying...it was horribly uncomfortable because we were deathly afraid something bad would happen to us if we took communion "lightly"...and we were always so hungry by the time the bread and grape juice came around!!@!! As an adult, I never wanted to take communion either because we were told we had to be "right" with God or it would be blasphemy if we were not righteous enough to take part in it. Well, needless to say, I never felt righteous enough! The 13th Sabbath was the least attended service! | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 104 Registered: 9-2003 |
All this dread and fear of communion makes me feel so sorry for those who are still subject to those feelings. Communion is such a moving and wonderful experience for me; it's when I have the greatest feeling of being in God's loving arms. I'm so glad for you all that have escaped that hurtful, shaming religion. How sad that you had to go through it. I will pray that you who are still struggling, receive God's help so you can enjoy communion and the depth of His unwavering love for you. - Hoytster |
