| Author | Message | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2004 |
My husband and I went to the Wedsnesday night service at church. There was a "prophet" visiting his message was excellent. Our walk needs to be in Jesus alone and if we rely on him we will desire to pray and read the word etc. Becoming close to him never comes through works. His message was so grace filled. At the end he prophesied to some church members about their spiritual giftings and issues they were going through. Afterwards I asked my husband if he was comfortable with what happened. He said he was, that prophets my family had been into were much weirder, which is true. We both discussed that we were happy now, and my next thought was, I wonder what God is going to slam into us next. I have been singing song's about God's love since I could talk, but I really need to internalize that he really is love. Anyways, our conversation brought back some unpleasant memories. My husband has never gone to church with me, or been part of my spiritual life. Some men in the congregation I grew up in were very controlling, wouldn't allow their wives to read anything that wasn't EGW or the bible. My parents are both deceased. My mom was told twice by a nonchristian counselor to leave the marriage, that her husband would never change. One week she decided to leave, that she had had enough of being treated badly. Somehow the pastor got wind of the fact that she was going to leave, he came and talked her into staying in the marriage, telling her if she left it would have such a negative impact on the church etc. (it was a small church). Basically,there was frequent emotional abuse, being told she wasn't good enough, couldn't do things right etc. She was a homemaker, and didn't have an outside support system. She supported my marriage to a nonAdventist when I was nervous about the religious aspect, she reminded me of all the good qualities my husband has. Thinking of my husband becoming spiritual/religious is terrifying me. I know as married people we should be of one spirit. However, if he is not filled with the Holy Spirit and only develops a head knowledge and becomes controlling, I don't think I could take it. My brother reminds me of our situation growing up and advises me to stay as far away from religion as possible. Anyone else been through this? | ||
| Hallanvaara Registered user Username: Hallanvaara Post Number: 59 Registered: 1-2004 |
I think your concernes has come true in many, many marriages. ItĄs the RELIGION, not faith, what makes people fanatic and controlling. Is your husband that kind of person who controls you now some way? If he does it now he certainly do it then when he has "new light". I think you have to discuss with him. Tell him that controlling other is not love. And thatĄs what Jesus told us to do. Love and respect each other. Being adult is not letting some one to control you. One thing you can (must!) do is reinforce your self esteem. DonĄt let anybody to treat you like a child and take orders. This can be done without arguing, just say no to controlling and manipulating. Silent resistance. Explain him why you donĄt like to be controlled. Be nice and loving but say no. You have your own brains, respect your way of thinking. And pray. By praying and being close to Jesus you can get amazingly amount of patience, peace and determination. You canĄt change another person but you can change yourself. Jesus gives you everything you need in this kind of situation. For many years I havenĄt accepted that somebody controls me. I have to admit that many men like to do that...  IĄve been totally controlled by my mom and I was like a puppet in a string. But not anymore. Never again. Jesus gave us freedom. Amazing freedom. We must never give up that. Tuija | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2004 |
Hi Tuija, Thank you for your reply. No, my husband has never been controlling. I realized last night when I was praying, that my fear does not come from God. I prayed that God would remove the fear from me and was able to have peace again. I have all my life sung songs like Jesus Loves Me. But belonging to a religion with so many rules, how could I not view God as unhappy and unloving towards me when I couldn't live up to what he wanted. Hopefully, one of these days it will permamently sink in that God really is love and wants to bless us and not punish us. | ||
| Hallanvaara Registered user Username: Hallanvaara Post Number: 60 Registered: 1-2004 |
Busymom, I think you and your husband have a good relationship and you can talk to him about your fears. I know a lot about those rules and regulations but itĄs only humans that demands them. Not God. But itĄs a hard job to struggle away cult and itsĄ beliefs. You can do it. God has for everyone individual way to lead us and He has began to lead you. That way leads to Jesus, closer to Him all the time. May God bless you and give you His peace. Tuija | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 711 Registered: 11-2002 |
You are in a quandry. I honestly don't know any advice to give except advice that is probably easier said than done and that would be "stay true to yourself". I do believe if a husband reads his Bible and takes seriousely the counsils about how a husband to to treet a wife, and remember in the bible the Church is the bride of God, then the hsband will probably be the best person on the entire earth that that woman could ever immagine being with. Having said that, I also know that men like to be dominant. But, then so do women, especially when it comes to religion. Us on here who were raised SDA have overwhelmingly the same stories concerning family members reactions when they finily realized we will not be comnig back to SDA'ism and knowing these wild reactions frequently come from mothers and sisters I guess it is not a man thing but a controlling thing. There's really little you can do on your own. It is a Holy Spirit issue. Pray. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 257 Registered: 3-2004 |
I will be praying for you and your husband Busymom. As Susan said, this is a Holy Spirit issue. Pray and pray and pray. God will be with you as He is right now. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 421 Registered: 12-2003 |
Busymom, does your husband show interest in the Bible and things of God now that you're not going to an Adventist church? Does he pray? Read the Bible, etc.? You're right; fear is not from God. It is normal for us as adults to automatically revert to our childhood conditioning when we see things in our surroundings that remind of of other events in our past. Yet allowing ourselves to "split", reacting to the present in ways we learned to react because of our fears and abuses in the past, is not healthy and causes us to become "stuck" in our growth. I'm learning that the only way I can truly get beyond knee-jerk fear/defensive responses to other people is by allowing Jesus to show me the truth about my past and to allow Him to "walk into" my memories with me, asking Him to care for me, heal my shame, and make me whole in Him. I must be willing to surrender my habitual patterns of response and self-defensiveness to Him. One of the miracles of knowing Jesus is that he gives us ourselves in completely new ways. He gives us our adulthood, and he gives us back our emotions when he heals us. There are just a couple of key points we must be willing to face: we must be willing to know the truth about ourselves--both the truth about our past abuses and the truth about our own skewed ways of living and coping that we've held onto because of those abuses--and we must be willing to obey Jesus through his Spirit's prompting when He asks us to trust Him for our safety and health instead of clinging to our own control over events. Let me give you an example of what I mean. Many times over the years, I've found myself fearing that Richard would make some "bad" decision, or do something that would put us in some sort of vulnerable position. (By the way; he's never done that!) One day, years ago, I spoke to a wonderful Christian counselor about that very problem. I explained that my head was certain that something bad would happen because circumstances looked "bad". At the same time, my heart felt that Richard was trustworthy and would not be foolish, yet my fear would win, and I would start to act controlling and try to micro-manage Richard's decisions. (I know; how neurotic!) This couselor explained to me that when I felt that pull between my habitual fear (born of much earlier trauma) and my sense of confidence that I could trust Richard, I could know that I was experiencing a "split" between my conditioned childhood responses and my adult understanding of things. The solution, I've learned, is that when I feel that irrational but compelling fear beginning to well up, I begin to pray that Jesus will keep me in truth and reality. I pray that He will help me to know what I need to know, understand what I need to understand, and change what I need to change. I pray that He will place His Spirit in the place in my heart where the spirit of fear has been, and that He will protect me from deception and keep my heart at peace in Him. God is SO faithful! When I am willing to give up my attempts to protect myself, manage those around me, and keep things the way I want them and instead surrender to Jesus, allowing Him to show me what I must know, what I must do in order to live with integrity, and what I must trust to His care, He keeps my heart peaceful. He also is able to help me pray for Richard (or whoever else I might be afraid will make some decision that threatens me!), and He helps me to open my tightly clenched fist and release to Him the care of my heart and the care of Richard's heart as well. I no longer have to manage the status quo. I can allow God to work not only on me but also on Rihcard's heart, and I can let go of my fearful need to control the outcome. As I have been willing to surrender to God's healing of my heart, I have been amazed to watch Richard grow in Him, also. If I held onto my fear and need to control the outcomes, I would often be creating internal "messes" that would get in the way of God's dealing with both me and also Richard. (Not that I would stop God's dealing with us, but I would be creating bigger problems, and making "smoke screens" that would be hiding the real issues God wants to heal.) I'm afraid all of this sounds a bit vague, but let me try to summarize the ways I've been learning to pray: Pray that God will help you to know the truth. Pray that He will keep you in reality and not in fearful "what-ifs". Pray that He will heal your heart and show you what you need to surrender to Him. Pray that His Spirit will replace the spirit of fear or anger or destructiveness that may have motivated your life. Pray that you will be able to love your husband (and children and whoever else is in your life) for God. And pray that He will give you a heart submissive to Him, a heart willing to be disciplined by the love of your Father and obedient to the teaching and prompting of the Holy Spirit. Above all, praise God for what He is doing for you. Praise Him for Jesus, for giving you new life in Him, for bringing you to a place in your life where you can learn the truth about Him and can learn to live with Sabbath rest in your heart. Praise Him for what He is already doing in and for your husband and children. Praise Him that He is at work in you, making you new. Ask Him to glorify Himself through your marriage and through your family. Ask Him to help your decisions to honor Him. I thank God for the miracle of His Holy Spirit living in our still-mortal, still-unredeemed bodies, giving us new life even now, before the resurrection! He is amazing. With prayers for you, Busymom, Colleen | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2004 |
Hi colleen, diana, susan, and tuija thank you for your replies and prayers. My husband has never been one to read. It is new for him to be coming to church and for the first time in our marriage we prayed together last week. I think I have left myself vulnerable to spiritual warfare. The last several years in the Adventist church I haven't been receiving spiritual food. Since leaving I have had the desire to pray and read the bible which I haven't done in a long time. The devil knows where we are vulnerable as far as making us fearful. Next time I wake up in the middle of the night with a fear hopefully I will be smarter and renounce the fear right away and leave it with God. My pastor suggested I pray about whether I need specific prayer re: oppression. Have any of you read Unbound by Neil Lozano? I haven't read it yet, but my understanding is that he promotes if there is area of your life that needs to be dealt with i.e. not forgiving someone in your past that even though we are christians the devil will attack that area where we are weak. Also yoga and meditation will make you vulnerable to a spiritual attack. He advocates specific prayer to have evil spirits leave you alone in those areas. I have forgiven everyone in my past. I know bitterness about things destroys us. Please pray that I can share with my brother God's love. He is so bitter about growing up Adventist. He made the comment yesterday that it is really hard to be happy. I am so thankful that Jesus loves us and is more powerful than the devil. My husband has agreed to meet with our pastor next month just to get to know him better, which is something we never did with the Adventist pastor. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 721 Registered: 11-2002 |
Your comment about him finding it hard to be happy perked me up. A SDA relative has been visiting frequently. Actually she is vacationing in my area and she stops by. I want to tell you she was brought up really super SDA, even having to attend SDA schools through some college. My mom and me told her something really funny that we'd heard on the news. She said, "What's funny about that?" We told her. Then she went on to tell us that there was never any humor in her home growing up. Life was always taken very seriousely. The focus was on having to do this, trying to avoid that. do you get my drift? And, the result was no laughing, no frivility, no joy. I don't know about little children being raised SDA nowadays but what my relative said certanly holds true for those of us on here well into our 50's and older and our SDA ancestors. I think when the focus is so strongly placed on preformance and outward show then the inward joy will be pushed aside. BTW, I also think must kids in our American society are pushed too hard. My kids would bring their homework home from high school and I'd look at it and it was harder than what I had to learn to get through college. I tell every kid I know to just chill, have a good time and then if he wants to go to college to start with the two year college, work part-time and go surfing and make room for fun. There will be plenty of time between ages 25-70 for all the hard work. Then after a two year college switch to the state university system. In the log run it doesn't matter the school you went to in gettig a good job. Motivation, dedication, good work habits, etc. are what matters. Got off the subject again. I hope you try to being more joyful things for him to be part of. Do you watch movies like, "European Vacation" and "Lampoon" and "Airplane"? Most of my SDA kin won't waste their time on such trash. Me and my kids, well, we love trash! | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 362 Registered: 1-2003 |
I don't agree that yoga is a bad thing. Yoga or stretching is good for your body...and your body is the Lord's...he invented the way it moves and it's muscles...so pagans can claim it (certain ways of stretching the body) belongs to them but it doesn't. It's like food sacrificed to idols...Paul said the earth is the Lord's and everything in it. I believe the Believer's freedom allows yoga...and when it gets to the end and(some of the tapes) say Namaste' (which means the divine light in me salutes the divine light in you) I say... "JESUS IS THE LIGHT!" Plus, if you search the net, there are yoga tapes set to praise music. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 440 Registered: 12-2003 |
Busymom, I want to be really careful and clear about how I say this. First of all, I believe that many Christians focus more on the problem of spiritual warfare than they do on the victory we have in Christ. We cannot focus on oppression at the expense of giving thanks and praising God in all things, keeping a song in our hearts. Second, I do believe people are subject to demonic harrassment. Spiritual warfare is real; Paul says in Ephesians 6 that our struggle is not against flesh and blood but against rulers and authorities and powers of this dark world and against th spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. (Eph. 6:12) Here's what I've come to believe, although I am not an "expert": I believe that we can renounce the claim of evil on us when we realize we have an area of chronic, resistant oppression or fear, etc., and ask God to place His Holy Spirit in the place of our hearts where the spirit of fear (or whatever) had been. I believe that as God heals our hearts, he teaches us the truth about our lives, and we begin to see areas of brokenness that have become places of chronic temptation or panic or oppression. As God helps us recognize the truth of our own experiences, we can ask Jesus to come into those places of pain and heal them, asking His Spirit to dwell where the spirits of deception or worry or (whatever!) had held your spirit in bondage. An example that perhaps many of us here can relate to is the spirit of Adventism. I believe that because the Adventist church is founded on deceit, not on orthodox doctrine and a desire to proclaim the true gospel of Christ, Satan has a claim on it. After all, things are either of God, or they are of evil. There is no middle ground in the universe. When Richard and I realized that, like Mormonism, Adventism also had a claim of Satan on it, we realized that we had to renounce the spirit of Adventism because, as Adventists, it had had a claim on us, even though unwitting. The night we knelt with our boys and Richard prayed that God would remove the spirit of Adventism from our hearts and put His Spirit in the place where it had been marked the moment all my emotional ties with the church ended. My heart had belonged to Jesus already, but my emotions were still bound up with concern about what the Adventists I knew would think, what I would say to them, etc. With that simple prayer came my freedom from the last eotional ties I had to the church. Richard says that for him, that moment marked the time when he knew he was born again and eternally secure. The fear of Adventism left him. Many years ago I also had a moment when I asked God to remove the spirit of chronic worry from me (a family trait, I have to say!) and to protect and fill me with His Spirit instead. Richard still says that moment changed me visibly. I had been crippled with increasingly severe worry--it was so bad that whatever we did or wherever we went, I could barely participate in our activities because of my internal churning. I've come to believe a couple of things about this subject: One is that release from a spiritual harrassment, for a Christ-follower, must involve that person's volitional prayer for release. It's not enough just to have someone pray for you; that is not your own prayer. Ssecond, if one is willing to give up the familiar struggle, his own prayer is all that is needed. After all, we don't need a team of people to pray for us to be saved. In fact, a team of people praying for us does not effect our salvation. We must personally pray and surrender. Please don't hear me saying that you should not have someone pray for you. I believe, however, that we can pray for another in their presence, but unless that person is willing to pray for himself, he is not truly surrendering and allowing God to have His way in his life. All of this brings me back to my original point. I believe that the reason the Bible is full of commands to pray, give thanks, and praise the Lord in all circumstances is that when we are praising and giving thanks to God, there's really no room in our hearts for us to be nursing fear, control, worry--by praising, we are declaring our loyalty and aligning oursleves with His will and His love and His power and His sovereignty. By praising Him, we are giving up our control over cirucmstances and acknowledging Him as Lord over our lives and over the world. Busymom, I also believe that if you wonder if there are things in your life that are opening you to spiritual harassment, just ask God to reveal to you if there is anything you need to give up. He is faithful; whenever we want to know the truth, He will reveal it! You can trust Him and rest in Him, and praise Him! Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 723 Registered: 11-2002 |
Coleen, What you said about chroic woory being a family trait is interesting. Frankly, I think chronic worry is a SDA trait. The more sda a person is the more the chronic worry. | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 21 Registered: 4-2004 |
Amen Colleen. It is truly amazing when you stop and think about that Jesus died for us out of love. It really was a finished work at the cross. I am so thankful for you and this forum! | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 624 Registered: 7-2000 |
Good one Colleen! We do need to have others pray for us sometimes when there is a real stronghold in our life. Can't explain why it helps, it just does. It is the same as "calling the elders to annoint with oil and pray" for the sick person. The person can pray alone for healing, but there are just times when we need others around us too. Mabye it is like issuing a "Declaration of Independence" from the problem, it is making a ceremony of marking the point in time that we leave the power of the enemy and choose the Lord instead. My observations agree with what you have said. That initial prayer is just the break through point. The enemy CAN and DOES come back to tweak us in that area to see if it is really closed or not. THE descisive battle of the war has been won, but the enemy still tries skirmishes to see if the ground can be retaken. I've seen so many people go away from that moment of being prayed for and within 2 months just slip back into the problem. I think it is because of what you are saying. We have to be engaged in the process. We must be praying at that initial point AND along the way afterwards. If we aren't doing the praying and standing after that initial breakthrough, the problem just returns in force. REally, spiritual warfare is far more about renewing our minds than battling the enemy. We do have to rebuke the spirit of fear, worry or whatever. But doing that is really a matter of reminding ourselves that we no longer have to be subject to that because of what Christ has done for us. Then praising God for our release, acknowledging His power, and worshipping Him is what turns our minds away from being open to attack. So much of our Christian life is renewing our minds! In other words, we have met the enemy and he is us. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 445 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lydell, thank you. You're so right about the ongoing surrender. What you've said took me back to my experience with the worry. While that initial prayer for release marked a HUGE change in me, without doubt the paralyzing fears would tempt me--and sometimes still do--when I was under stress. But I stand on the certainty that God has already delivered me, and I give the temptation to worry back to Him and ask Him to guard and protect my heart and to keep me in reality. He is faithful! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 275 Registered: 3-2004 |
Colleen and Lydell, Your comments really struck home with me. Unless I am willing to surrender my compulsion to God, He cannot help me. That means that I am still hanging on to it and giving Satan a chance to tempt me. Like Colleen, I have to stand on the certainty that God has already delivered me and I give the compulsion to him. He truly is awesome. Diana | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 150 Registered: 10-2001 |
Pheeki, I did some research on Yoga a while back for my cousin. It's Hindu, you know, and the purpose is to meditate and see yourself in everything and hopefully reduce your number of reincarnations. I don't mean to offend anyone, but it is evil, one of the more advanced stages in levatation. Christians don't believe that we are reincarnated or that we are in everything. It's one more tool of the devil to infiltrate our minds and subconscience with the spirit world and altar our concious minds. Lots of things seem harmless but there is a root to all things and it is evil or good. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 740 Registered: 11-2002 |
I totally love hanging with the Hare Krishnas and going to the Hare Krishna gatherings. I don't let myself get sucked into getting too weird with them. I just like the Hare Krishnas and going to their gatherings. It's totally spun! And, after the religios aspect is completed they have an awsome vegetarian feast with the most wonderful food I could ever immagine. Oh, those Krishnas can make some yummy grub! Krishna meetings are not called services or meetings. Krishna gatherings are called gatherings. | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2004 |
Just an update, next week our church is starting a class on the fundamentals of christianity. My husband has agreed to attend with me. My hope is that our family will be united in our beliefs. Thank you for your prayers. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 304 Registered: 3-2004 |
I will continue praying for you and your husband. Thank God for your husband's decision. Diana |
