| Author | Message | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 39 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hi Tracey, What part of Ohio? Ric_b and I live in the Cincinnati area of Ohio, and we know of at least one former-SDA family in the Dayton area. | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 12 Registered: 9-2004 |
Hi Raven! We are in Columbus actually. Just about finished with Greg Taylor's book and Oh my Gosh! Man, Talk about the Holy Spirit being a teacher to that man!! I would've never guessed that that little book would be so thourough in its research. It is addressing each and every (and a few that C. doesn't mention even!) belief and interpretation of scripture that C. brings to me in conversation!! I am just amazed.. This is a whole world that I never even knew about and now this wonderful little book -- God has given revelation and opened the eyes of one man who has now written it all down. I am so happy and thankful. C starts it tonight and knowing him, he won't put it down till he's done! Not to mention, no reinventing the wheel, just follow along with the bible as he reads.. The insight into God's plan regarding these issues is something that only an SDA could address from such an insiders perspective and definitely this book was set in motion by God himself to help others. Praise His name for His love toward us and his desire to see us enjoy the liberty in Christ Jesus and that Greg poured out his heart and revelation of the truth and experience into this book! | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 478 Registered: 7-2003 |
Tracey, I've also been amazed at the similarity of the words the SDAs use to explain their beliefs. As much as B insists he is not merely spitting out what they've told him, it is so word for word across many from across the county, it is nearly impossible for me to believe they all came to these conclusions on their own to the point they use the same catch phrases. I think that is one of the things that makes the organization look so cultic as well, their people all talk alike ... it seems to be such an effective form of indoctrination. I thought Greg's book was good too because it is very down to earth and simplistic for the non-scholarly (but I love the scholarly books too, they just take longer to absorb.) | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 110 Registered: 2-2003 |
Melissa, I hear exactly the same arguments and catch phrases that you peaople mention from Hungarian Adventists too. It does seem to typify cultic behaviour. It is the same with Faith Church people here. They are not a cult theologically, but it is a highly controlling, centralised organisation with powerful leader. It's like whoever you meet, you just "press the appropriate button" and out comes a conditioned response. Just praying for God to keep breaking down the barriers. Adrian | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2004 |
Just wondering if HRob received Greg Taylor's book... Does anyone know? Is he giving it to his fiancee'? I was giving it to C, but he told me to finish it first, so he gets it after church today. I am praying for a miracle. I prayed to the Lord to soften C's heart in order that the veil be lifted from his eyes as he reads the book. b/c frankly, I am tired also and I think I have put too much energy in this and so although I have said that I am turning this over to God -- I haven't done so. But NOW -- NOW I have. I have put those two books in his hands and a ton of articles, pamphlets etc. It between him, his desire and our God. I am certainly hopeful and believing this ,but I can't get too excited b/c I don't want to come down too hard and be dissappointed. The other day, C says that now "he" is a non-denominational who "chooses" to worship on Saturday. I'm like when did that happen?? I have enough wisdom to know it's not that simple.. and he really needs more understanding of what he's in to make that kind of statement. But, I trust the Lord to work things out according to his will and not just what C and I want. God Bless you all! Tracey | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 14 Registered: 9-2004 |
Melissa, IN reading Taylor's book, I was so shocked that he talked the same way C does!! That's why the book was so unbelievable to me. The same examples in the book, C uses, the same answer to my questions.. Amazing! It just was an eye opening experience as to the indoctrination of SDA (for me to see the "same talk" by 2 men that don't know each other) I thought while reading the book, "C isn't giving his own insight from study, he's repeating and here's proof! and then I thought, "I am not alone in this!" I really Thank God for this forum and for all of you to talk with about this. And once C is freed, I will still be in touch! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 928 Registered: 11-2002 |
Tracey, I think it is wonderful that C is now non-denominatioal and chooses to worship on Saturday. I sometimes get frustrated with a lot of the posts I read on here because they seem to me to be so anti worship on Saturdays that it almost seems to me to be as fanatical as the SDA's are about worshipping on Sundays. If there was a Seventh Day Baptist church within driving distance to my house that would be my first choice of church. If I lived in the Fresno, California area I would attend Valley Community Church which holds it's weekly worship on Saturday mornings and is pastored by a former SDA minister. There is nothing wrong with attending church on Saturdays. When I am in the Southeran California area over Saturdays I like to attend St. Timothy's Lutheran which has a Saturday evening service. In my area the Nazarene has a Satuday afternoon service. I would be happy with C's new look on it. | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 665 Registered: 7-2000 |
Susan, I would just like to comment on many of us here on FAF appearing against Saturday worship..."anti worship on Saturdays". I would hope it would come across clearly that we are not against worshipping God on Saturday...or any other day for that matter! Worship of our God is to be a never-ending intrinsic part of our lives, 24/7, and whenever we choose to worship publicly in community--this should be our choice and privilage! My husband and I found out, however, that our parents seemed to live in a state of denial about our Sabbath-rest in Christ if we continued to go to church on Saturdays, either with them when visiting in their home or with them when they visited us. Although we have not attended Adventist churches for a number of years, it was not until we purposefully decided to not go with them on a Saturday that they got very concerned. To so many, the particular day IS a salvation issue, one that just can not be taken or left without serious consequences! I know each person's case is unique; this is mine. grace always, cindy | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 558 Registered: 3-2004 |
It appears to me that those who have an anti Saturday worship attitude are that way because of what they learned as SDA and from EGW. It is a salvation issue for SDAs. When they learn the Sabbath is not a salvation issue, it is like a light bulb has been turned on in the head and everything about EGW and what the SDA church taught is no longer valid. Some people can get very upset when they learn this deception. No one likes to be deceived, especially by a person/persons that are supposed to be representing Christ. I do not worry about people like this. As they get to know Christ they will get over what ever it was that bothered them. I was very angry at the GC leaders because the SDA church knew about EGW from day one and foisted upon the people and are still doing it, that she was inspired by God. I have gotten over that and have given that anger to God. He is in charge and will do something about it at the correct time in the earth's future. For myself, I am attending the Sat evening service in the church I attend. I am not trying to "keep the Sabbath", I am just doing it because there are things I want to do on Sunday, like sleep in. It is the only day I can do that. The important thing to me is resting in Jesus every day. That is so freeing and liberating. Just my 2 cents worth. God is awesome and I think I will not try to disrupt His plan for me. Diana | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2004 |
Well, def. am free to worship on Saturdays and all days. In fact, my non-denom church offers Sat. services. I am not anti- any day to worship God. We're talking about worshipping God, not the day- as we all know. If you continue on Sat. Susan and as long as you or anyone else KNOWS you may choose any day, then in my opinion, you are in the liberty of Christ Jesus. I even told C, I could worship on Sat. if we were married, b/c I have that option! But that didn't satisfy (at the time of the convo.) b/c he wanted me to believe I am obligated and it really irritated him that I so freely said "Hey wanna worship on Sat? That's fine! I can do either!" LOL! haha! Well, I almost went to church with him today and I asked the Lord if I should go. (Mainly to be supportive and please him, C.) Then felt like I shouldn't go in my heart <and I really wanted to go (for him).> And I think todya's experience of this after I prayed falls under this same line that Cindy said -- If I continue going with him, then he will think that it's alright (which it is, if you have the understanding that you are free to do it whenever you want)and I don't want him to think I am alright with SDA doctrines, so I didn't. He came over right after and guess what? Another small miracle-- He offered to help wash my dishes! My girlfriend was also over chatting with me, and she really doesn't understand what it meant for me ( I don't discuss this kind of thing with her) She just thought what a nice guy. But inside!!! I was doing cartwheels!! This is the guy that will leave dishes in the sink and NOT load the dishwasher on Saturdays! Trying to stay calm but this makes me very hopeful that God is working on this wonderful man! And Susan, yes, I am partly happy about him calling himself a Christian first and foremost but I know what I had to experience to decide to leave the "religious titles" out of my relationship with God (not that there's anything wrong with being in a religion-- it's just not for me) and for him to say it out of the blue "I am non-denom" I am a little skeptical given his many years as an SDA.. but it doesn't matter -- However he chooses to call himself at this point in time. Good News Update: C is on page 43 of the book (Taylor's) now. He is such a fast reader! He just started after church today. I didn't dare ask him anything! but I wish I had another copy! I am like so curious as to what he is reading right now and his feelings.. But I'll be Sally Slow Down until he is ready to talk first! <In the book, when Greg says that he prayed 'Lord, don't let me be deceived!' THAT is C..! He so loves the Lord and only wants to do right by God. I think that part of the book will hit him in the heart.> C. also said he will probably finish it tonight. I just said make sure you have the bible to follow along with it! Keep Praying! Tracey | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 16 Registered: 9-2004 |
Susan, He may be considereing himself non-denom, but in his heart he is SDA b/c he still attends SDA church.. He is not *just* attending on Sat. He thinks it's the only right way. It's double talk.. Although I am sure you wouldn't know this by my posting.. So much is lost in "translation" .. : ) Tracey | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 560 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tracey, I continue praying for you and C. Not just on Friday at sundown and Saturday at 1 PM PT but every day. You are in my little black prayer book with C. Diana | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 115 Registered: 3-2004 |
It seems to me that what might come across as ’Äúanti Sabbath’Äù is actually that people realize, whether consciously or subconsciously, that they need a different day of worship as a type of litmus test. As you are removing yourself from SDA doctrines, you get to a point that you know something is right in your head. But you need to test it in your heart to see if you’Äôve really gotten the message. For me, the intellectual knowing about not needing to keep Sabbath and the freedom to be able to walk into Wal-mart at 11:00 am Saturday morning and then worship Sunday morning were two different things. Is your heart truly feeling free, without the slightest shame or guilt? Once you are over the hump, it’Äôs like many of you have said, I could worship Sunday, Saturday, Thursday’Äîany day of the week. Many people, I believe, find Saturday services at other churches helpful for bridging the gap. Eventually it becomes spiritually dangerous to remain at the SDA church, where the atmosphere holds a spiritual bondage of which you are unaware until totally removed. I believe there are probably thousands who continue to fool themselves that they’Äôre not truly SDA but claim to have some really good excuse for still attending. At some point you must get out of the boat of Adventism if your spiritual growth is to continue. Praise God’Ķ | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 17 Registered: 9-2004 |
Well, a little more good news: C said that he read 30 pages yesterday and he sees Greg Taylor making some good points. He also said that he wrote it without seeming bitter and angry. I am very hopeful. He said the next chapter is Sabbath in Galatians and that he has been looking up every scripture reference cited in the book. He also said he isn't' familiar with all the EGW references but all in all, Ithink it is a blessing for him to read it. I love the part Taylor writes saying that either broke the law or he didn't. And if he broke the law, then he was sinning and if he sinned, He isn't Savior!! OR in essence, there was no more law of the Sabbath once He came to fulfill it and therefore whatever he did on it was not transgressing and therefore not sinning, which upholds that He is the spotless Lamb of God! hallelujah! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 691 Registered: 12-2003 |
PraiseGod, I so agree with you--at some point, "you must get out of the boat of Adventism if your spiritual growth is to continue." A person must "jump off that cliff" God puts in front of him if he is to experience living by the Spirit. The Sabbath was an issue for many of us only because it symbolized salvation. If we really don't believe Sabbath is necessary for salvation, then we must be willing to give it up. It's ultimately all about Jesus. God does bring us to points of surrender that feel very risky. He asks us to be willing to let go of everything we value--even the intangible things--for Him. Colleen | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 27 Registered: 7-2004 |
I hope that I also have not come across as being "anti-Sabbath" because I'm not. It's just that as a small child this "international Sunday Law" nonsence was literally scared into me at a very early age. I used to be scared to death at the prospect of some near future " Pope-worshiping SundayKeepers" running around looking for me and my family in the mountains ready to bash our heads in for going to church on Saturday. I guess I'm just soooooooo relieved that the Holy Spirit has informed me, through study, that this is not going to happen and this idea of a "sunday law" was perpetrated only by the sda church. I praise God, because I'm so relieved. I am member now of a local Seventh-Day Baptist church in my community, and I still enjoy very much, attending church on Saturday  And, I praise God for the fact that now I know that I can choose to worship on any day, and that worshiping on just Saturday has nothing to do with my salvation. | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 107 Registered: 9-2003 |
Vchowdhury1! I'm confused. You know that you can worship on any day, yet you have elected to join a Seventh-Day Baptist church? It seems to me that if you were truly free, then you would be at a Sunday-worshipping church, given that about 99% of Christians go to church on Sunday. Googling, I found this comparison of SDBs and SDAs. Seems pretty knowledgeable about SDAs to me. What do you think? Also, I liked the SDBs on every particular. http://www.seattlesdb.org/sda.htm I recognize your right to worship when you choose, too, Vchowdhury1. Please don't take my comments as criticism. Just curious! - Hoytster | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2004 |
I somehow miss the logic "It doesn't matter which day you go to church so you should go on Sunday." At the same time, I clearly see the issue that can exist for someone who has spent their whole life believing that choosing the right worship day is the CENTRAL point in salvation. Fully letting go of that false gospel is probably very important in the experience of grace. Not having been a "lifer" I probably have a different perspective, but sometimes what I read here almost sounds like a legalism of "not worshiping on the 7th day"! I find Romans 14 to be clear both in the call to freedom to worship any day AND in the freedom it provides if someone chooses to keep a day. Let's not take away the freedoms proclaimed here. | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 108 Registered: 9-2003 |
If you are referring to my post, Ric_b: I don't think I used the word "should." Checking: Nope, not me. I'm (mildly) challenging V's statement that he is free to choose, but just HAPPENS to choose the ONLY non-SDA church I'm aware of that holds that the Sabbath must be Saturday. The logic: According to Adherents.com, there were about 50,000 SDBs worldwide in 1990. Using that figure, and a base of roughly 2 billion Christians on the planet, V just happened to pick a church which represents about 0.0025% of Christianity, and by coincidence worships on Saturday just like SDAs. What are the odds that V happens to pick that church, if he in fact has set aside the need for Saturday worship? Do you think it was some other doctrinal issue that appealed to V, apart from the Saturday worship? The web site I cited mentions that THE distinguishing feature of SDBs is their adherence to the belief that the Sabbath is Saturday... so I don't know what OTHER doctrine happened to attract V. I have my opinion; you're welcome to yours. THAT said, this forum has a lot of posts about ex-SDAs who attend Saturday services at a non-SDA church en route to a Sunday-worshipping church later. After a lifetime as an SDA, it's a difficult transition. Maybe V is in the middle of that process. Or not! I repeat: Sunday is entirely optional. Ignore me, V! Go whereever, whenever! Praise Jesus! - Hoytster (ex-statistician) | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 930 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear Vchowdhury, Are you in the United States? If so, could you please say where? I grew up occassioally getting to attend the SDB church and arond 10 years ago joined a SDB church within driving distance of my house but it had to fold and no longer is there a SDB church within driving distance to me. However, if I'm in Southeran California there is one I like to visit at. Do you get the Sabbath Recorder? Have you ever attended Conference? Hoytster, There truly is very little common ground between the SDA and the SDB. Yes, the SDB do consider Sabbath to be God's holy time. However, even considering that the similarities are few. My experience with the SDB is that they, the individuals as well as the organization are first Christian and then Baptist. Generally the SDB's would rather have someone learn of Jesus and worship whenever, but to the glory of Jesus than soley promoting their denoination and the Sabbath. I personally know many SDB's who attend church on Saturday mornings and then again on Sunday mornings, usually at the same church because SDB's usually rent a Baptist church for their service. I recently had an elderly SDB man tell me one of the main advantages of being SDB is that he could praise Jesus in church, even at the same church on Saturday morning and then again on Sunday morning. In Fresno, California is a church called, Valley Community Church. It has it's weekly service on Saturday mornings. The pastor is a former SDA minister. I don't know if he got fired from the SDA or if he quit but he is an awsome, wonderful totally grace oriented minister. In fact, in the 12 years this man pastored the SDA church in Fresno he NEVER preached egw or even anything she made up. If I'm in Fresno over the weekends I like to attend Valley Community on Saturdays and a Lutheran church the next day. It's not the day. It's hearing the word of God. The SDB has website. It sometimes seems to me that the former SDA's on here are hostile at the very idea that someone might choose to attend church worship on Saturdays or in the case of SDB's, Sabbath. For this reason, because I think the hostility towards Christians who are open to still worshipping on Saturdays even though the worship is in grace and devotion, well some on here seem hostile. If you want to go to church on Sundays, then go. But, if others want to go on Saturdays, then that's fine, too. I go to the Prayer and Praise service over at the local Catholic church frequently on Monday evenings. You all need to get over your fixation on the days. Best to you, Vchowdhury. |
