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Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 569
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hrob,
I agree with Colleen, Pheeki, and Melissa. Not only does she have a dysfunctional religion, but if she listens to her Mother now, she will listen to her Mother after you marry. Her Mother will come before you. Do you want that?? That with the pull of the SDA church is very hard to break, unless she asks God to help her. Remember, she will put her Mother first and when you have kids, she will put the SDA church first.
What do you want?? I continue to pray for you and your girlfriend.
Diana
Chris
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 380
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HRobinson, SDA apply the following text to marriages between SDAs and non-SDAs:

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 Cor 6:14 (NASB)

They believe that marrying outside of "THE Church" (read SDA denomination) is a very serious offense even if the other person is a professing evangelical Christian. Most SDAs would require the evagelical Christian to be baptized as a SDA before they would even consider marrying them (if nothing else for appearances sake).

Many SDA ministers refuse to perform a marriage ceremony for a SDA and a non-SDA, even if the non-SDA is a practicing Christian.

It is important to understand that SDA do not see protestant denominations as simply other Christian denominations, they see them as entirely different RELIGIONS that are foreign to and in direct opposition to Adventism.

Your fiancee is part of the only true remnant church and you are part of Babylon. She is in great danger of being sucked into Babylon and receiving the Mark of the Beast if she marries you.

Given these beliefs, it is no wonder her mother is trying to protect her from you. You are a threat to her daughters salvation. My wife and I were married more than a decade and had two children before we left Adventism and her parents tried very hard to drive a wedge between us when we left. I truly believe that they would be very happy indeed if our family split through divorce as long as my wife and the kids were safely back in the SDA fold and not headed to destruction along with me.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but it is how it is.

Chris
Chris
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 381
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 5:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tracey, I think the bargain you describe would end up being a bad one indeed. I think you would be very suprised at what "keeping sabbath" from sundown Friday to sundown sunday would entail once children came into the picture. I know outsiders won't understand this, but the way marginal SDAs behave before children is completely different than how they behave once they have the responsibility of bringing up their children "in the truth". Believe me, I did it myself. There may be a lot of things that your BF does now on Fri. night and Sat. that give Sabbath observance the appearance of a fun day of relaxation and enjoyment. Once the kids come though and he feels the need to conform to more traditional Sabbath keeping things will change. Suddenly simple things like running out of butter and wanting to run to the store are anathama. Wanting to flip on the TV or radio to find out the weather is strongly frowned upon. You will find yourself getting questioning looks if you are looking at the wrong books or magazines. Adventist (at least around here) have a phrase: "sitting on the sun" Those that don't use the phrase will at least know what I mean. They sit and wait for the sun to go down, becasue only then can the games and popcorn come out or the TV be turned on. The hours between sundown Fri. and sundown Sat. can be very long indeed.

Chris
Tracey
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Username: Tracey

Post Number: 22
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yikes. YOu are probably right Chris.

But in other threads, I have told how is has helped me with dishes, washing my car -- both on Saturdays. We watched Reagan's funeral on a Friday night. But I don't want him to become stricter and more legalistic if we marry.. <sigh>
Chris
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 384
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those things are okay as long as the kids don't see, but they can't be done in front of the children because it sets a bad example for them. I went to SDA schools (HS and college) with with many people that I still know. Most if not all of them that I hung around with were quite liberal in their sabbath-keeping prior to marriage and kids. I can not name one single person though that became more liberal in their sabbath-keeping once the kids came. In all cases I have experienced it has always been quite the opposite. A deal to observe the Jewish Sabbath in your home from sundown Friday night to sundown Saturday night would be the equivalent of the Galations agreeing to circumcision. You would be agreeing to place yourself and your children under the old covenant Mosaic law. I think this is a very dangerous compromise indeed.

Chris
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 707
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 11:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tracey, I totally agree with Chris. I realize that the hold of Adventism is really hard for someone to understand who hasn't lived through it--but, in a sense, you are beginning to "live through" it, as Melissa has also, and now Hrob as well. Unless your BF totally sees Jesus as ALL he needs and is willing to walk away from every tradition for Him, he will be bound to his Adventism. In an invisible but very real way, Adventism "owns" its own.

Adventists are amazingly good at rationalizing their Sabbath behavior while never giving up their internal confidence in the day. The fear that it might actually be related to their salvation never quite goes away--nor does the guilt and panic if they turn away from it--unless they surrender it to Jesus and embrace only Him, no Saturday at all!

As Chris said, "I think this is a very dangerous compromise indeed."

Colleen
Cindy
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Username: Cindy

Post Number: 672
Registered: 7-2000
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 6:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Tracey, I'm not sure you boyfriends' words (about going to church with you and yet, still wanting to "observe the sabbath") are the breakthru you desire...

Not only would he (most likely) be against making Sunday his "sabbath" (fears of that Papal decree enforcing "Sunday-keeping"), but unless he sees his salvation totally secure in Christs' Rest alone, issues of "proper" sabbath activities (Saturday or Sunday) will pop up as irritation points between you.

And really, although there is a definite benefit to incorporating a change of routine in our weekly cycles, where does the line between "holy"/sacred and "unholy"/secular fall!?

"Observing" or "keeping" a day holy is something I could never go back to!

All my life, all my time, is in God's hands. All of my days are holy because I have entered into Jesus' Finished Work. His Rest is a continuous one for me.

You have a wonderful spirit, Tracey. May God give you continued guidance. And I know if your boyfriend is seeking God, the "veil" of that Old Covenant will be lifted for sure... It's happenened for so many of us! :-)

grace always,
cindy
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 484
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 7:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tracey, I'm in agreement with the others. What Chris said is so ironic in how true it is for my situation. Prior to our son being born, B would go with me to my son's soccer games on Saturday (afternoon only, not morning), but once our son came along, he wouldn't go to my older son's games on Saturday any more. He used to go with me to the store occasionally, even though he wouldn't buy anything, but now the baby can be out of diapers and would have to wait until after sundown. He had also told me how he had "slipped away" from the church (had an affair while married to his first wife, left her, married adulteress) who had a 6-month old and 2 year old. And BECAUSE OF THE KIDS, and his need to instill in them morals, he got back involved with the church. His 2nd wife wasn't religious and went with him until she decided to get a job on Saturdays and eventually left him for someone else.

Your boyfriend needs time to process the information you're giving him and to really own his belief in it, not just shake his head to please you ... cuz some day, if he doesn't own it in his heart, he'll go back and wonder why he ever left. B and I have made headway on issues here and there, but when we get a little space between the conversations, he reverts back to the standard SDA lines.

There is a line in one of the official statements at Adventist.org that defines a Non-believer (as in that text that Chris quoted above) as any non-SDA. It really isn't about being a Christian...and I used that line too...but he's a Christian. I have a girlfriend who has been dating a baby Christian and she's in the same unequally yoked box. There is a spiritual maturity that needs to exist. I know marriages have "survived" under adverse circumstances, but I also know how hard it is when things are tough and if you don't have that foundation, you can't share your deepest emotion because of some religious difference, you turn away from the person you should turn to and seek people who are spiritually like-minded to talk to. That's usually a clue. My grandfather is in his late 80s and starting to lose it. And I hate to mention it to B because I just hear past conversations in my head about how much better off he'd have been if he had been vegetarian (blaming the person who gets old for their own condition rather than seeing it as a part of aging....lots of guilt), so I can't even share the grief of my grandfather's failing memory, though he still seems okay physically (all things considered). My brother's wife is going through some expensive fertility issues, and since B says 90+% of health problems are diet related, I again keep my mouth shut because she created the situation herself in his mind, and she doesn't need his condemnation, neither do I because I empathize.

What seems surmountable today becomes a mountain when kids arrive. Other wonderful, Godly people have traveled the road. That's why God gives us instructions. You know now you ARE unequally yoked. NOW is the time to stand strong in recognition of that FACT. As I've said before, for me following God feels as though I'm walking in the opposite direction of B. Eventually, I had to stop making excuses for the hope I had.

You alone know God's leadings in your heart. But please don't be in a rush if he does make some progress. These are huge decisions and changes as the others on here testify. That doesn't mean God can't change him, but allow him the time and space to do it in his heart, not only in his head.
Tracey
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Username: Tracey

Post Number: 23
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 8:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, Cindy, Colleen,

No it's not the breakthrough I want -- truly. I do see it as him creeping slowly toward God's grace in Christ Jesus. But you guys are right. I can't compromise. I want him to know most of all the rest in Jesus that he needs for his life. I want that more than wanting to have a lifelong relationship with him. You are right. I don't have to have any part of the Mosaic law (except maybe from Acts 15) He should finish "new Covenant" this weekend and if he still feels the same about Sat. being more holy, then I don't know how or when God will lift the veil. But I suppose it's when C runs zealously after the Lord for the truth according to scripture and not religion.

Thanks folks.. Although HARD to swallow, Your words weigh very heavily and are only a confirmation of what was placed in my spirit already. I value your experience and opinions and wisdom.

Thank you.
Tracey
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Username: Tracey

Post Number: 24
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 8:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa,

I will consider your words carefully and take all of this to the Lord. I will see where he stands once the book is finished. Youare so right that he needs time and space to search out this matter for himself. But I don't think it has to take long if you run zealously after God! But C -- I don't see him being real excited about this. and yes, that's also a clue. I know in my heart C would be the one if he really knew Christ and left his religion. But I shouldn't have to wait forever for him to seek after God like <the story of> the drowning boy fighting for air (Thx Esther!)

Thank you Melissa and Ouch!
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 486
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 8:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have often made the same statement about B. I know he would be the one if he really knew Christ and left his religion. It's that two letter word >... IF. As my life has become more and more Christ centered, however, I have found the commonalities we do have becoming less important. I guess that's God changing me. I'm so sorry to say things that hurt. But I know the pain gets worse from where you are to where I am. Keep your eyes on Jesus and follow his lead. I used to have your zeal, but reality has taken most of it away. I hope you don't see my experiences as necessarily yours. Just know the possibilities. Go where God leads. You may get to be the exception.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 574
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tracey,
I have been through what you are going through. Please, pray and pray and pray and do not marry anyone if there is an IF. God will answer your prayers. And I will continue to pray for you.
I have said that if I could do it over I would not. It was sad and ended with two unhappy people and a divorce with a child involved. So please, take care and pray a lot.
God will care for you. He is awesome.
Diana
Sabra
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Username: Sabra

Post Number: 182
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tracey,

You seem very grounded. I find that testimonies really impact people. Can you print out some of our testimonies and will he read them?

I also know that no person could have ever shown me the Truth. I would never have seen it. God does really have to lift a veil from us to save us from Adventism. But all I had to do was ask, really!

I searched and read and studied and stayed up many nights on the internet and just didn't know, until I finally broke down and asked God, "What is Truth?" What do You want me to see?" That was it. The curse (and it is a curse) was broken. I had a physical, supernatural breakthrough. I can't really tell you what I mean by that except that I "felt" the presence of God and I felt something in my gut, like I had just fallen down a huge hill on a rollercoaster. My hair stood up on my arms, I had chill bumps. And I knew without a shadow of a doubt that God answered me. Then in the days following He sent at least 2 unmistakable confirmations.

God is so willing to show us truth if we just ask.

I pray that God will work it out to His glory.

Blessings,
Sabra
Tracey
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Username: Tracey

Post Number: 25
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Sabra! I got chills just reading that. I will encourage him to ask that same sentence that you did.. You are right that sometimes we have to pray specifically. He is reading Greg Taylors book right now and I am reading Sabaath in Christ. Testimonies are good, but C needs scriptural references to be shown to him b/c he wants to please God and if there is no references of the Word to back a claim for doing something for the Lord, then he takes "testimonies" as opinions, and isn't really moved. Emotion isn't his style. It's evidence and intellect. That's why the book that he is reading is so good! I am hopeful. But I thank you for your suggestions and I will def. tell him about them.

Flying, no no marriage! C won't even ask until we work this out and that is so mutually felt. We both agree that we must have a united household with one vision. I want a peaceful house and I agree with you.

Thanks everyone!
Tracey
Tracey
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Username: Tracey

Post Number: 29
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 11:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Sabra,

Well, C said that that is how he prays/prayed.. Show me the truth, open my eyes.. etc.. So I said Praise God! That was a relief for me.

He's still reading the New Covenant book. I metioned how Greg said he would read the bible and apply it to how it fit in his religion. I told C basically, that that was odd to do but interesting how Greg was able to see that that was what he was doing. C finds the Acts 15 study interesting in how Converts wanted gentiles circumcised so that they would then have to keep sabbath and other laws. But I LOVE the letter Peter )and the Jewish council) gives Paul in response to that situation:

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:

Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell [you] the same things by mouth.


Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; (How about that word burden!)


Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

I LOVE THE WORD OF GOD!


Tracey
Sabra
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Username: Sabra

Post Number: 185
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 5:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Tracey,

Galatians was the eye-opening book to me, wow! It is just plain and simple gospel. Only takes about 30 min to read, maybe you could read it together.

I have no doubt, if he is truly seeking God, He will be found!

Another point, to me, was where Jesus said we have to leave all and follow Him, even our families. That is so true for religions. They sort of make up who we are, we identify with them especially if we have grown up in a religion so exclusive as Adventism. Leaving that is like divorcing your whole circle of family and friends.

I wasn't too fond of Adventism, but I did have to go through a lot of "persecution" for leaving. It made me sure that I wanted to follow Jesus more than I wanted approval from family and friends.

Isn't that what we are called to do? Take up our cross and follow Him, not a man-made religion! I see the Church denominational walls falling down and I believe we are coming together in one accord, just like Acts. Unity in Christ, one faith, one Lord, one baptism. One Bride.

Blessings and prayers sister!
Sabra
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 717
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sabra, I agree with you re: denominational walls falling down. I've observed the same thing beginning to happen among Christ-followers. The lines are drawn between those who believe in Christ alone by grace alone through faith alone and those who, like the false teachers in the early church, teach special knowledge and a different gospel. The false teachings can look either liberal or ulta-conservative.

Galatians is the book of the Bible that describes Adventism's theological heresy regarding the Sabbath and the law. It might well have been addressed to Adventists instead of Galatians. Instead of circumcision, insert Sabbath--and you have a description of Galatianism as it is in this modern religion.

Praise God for choosing us and calling us to Himself!

Colleen
Tracey
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Username: Tracey

Post Number: 33
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have just read the 27 Fundamentals...

Oh my gosh, I am soo angry at the double talk, and even blasphemous statement in 1 of them stating EGW writings are the continuing and authoritative source of truth !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT? I am so speechless.
Continuing??? Authoritative?? What is the bible even for then?! Her writings given instruction, correction, guidance???? The bible says God's Word does that in 2Timothy 3:16 .."for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. Now THAT's continuing! Not HER or her writings! or how about heaven and earth shall pass away, but not His Word. Try spiritual gifts shall pass away (i.e. no longer continue) How can God's Word continue and EGW works???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who can rightly divide the Word of God and come up with this stuff? <sigh>

I am so angry at the deception upon peoples' minds! I hate the devil. I hate him. But God is victorious and we are more than conquerors through Christ.

It is our responsibility to read God's word with understanding. But Lord help your people!

Please continue praying.
Pw
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Username: Pw

Post Number: 144
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tracey. You really nailed it on the head. Jesus said HIS words would never pass away! Amazing how EGW feels her words are on the same level. Not sure if that's an inflated ego or just plain blasphemy.
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey

Post Number: 36
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Inflated ego? Please! Try a spirit of the antichrist.

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