| Author |
Message |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 48
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 2:12 pm: |     |
Amen!! Dagnabbit, Just follow all of them and see how well you fare.. I bet they'd Jesus in a true light then.. Would be running to him! ;)
God Bless them. <good grief!> I am still praying.
What a hard life to live this way! |
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra
Post Number: 213
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 4:23 pm: | |
Chris,
It makes the most sense to me especially since the SDA's are so dogmatic about there not being a Millinial reign on earth. The whole passage of men dying and babies not being born dead and the Jews are expecting a King to reign from Jerusalem. And, what else do we need ressurected bodies for since flesh and blood don't enter heaven? You're right, it is interesting. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 599
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 5:17 pm: | |
The futher I get from the SDA church the more convoluted and twisted the teachings are. I do not see how I agreed with them for so long. Guess it was because I had an EGW filter on for a long time. Thank God it is gone.
God is awesome.
Diana |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 950
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 8:52 pm: | |
I have heard there are 613 o.t. laws. Does anyone know of a web address that I can actually read one by one by one all 613 of these laws? I might actually print it out to share with those SDA loved ones and then ask them how they go about choosing which ones are still valid. |
Vchowdhury1
Registered user
Username: Vchowdhury1
Post Number: 43
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 9:39 am: | |
Thanks, everyone for answering my inquirie regarding the sabbath and creation. Tracey, your post made me laugh out loud! Thanks for that. It made my day 
--Valerie |
Krista
Registered user
Username: Krista
Post Number: 24
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 10:27 am: | |
Hey Susan, Here are the 613 OT laws:
http://www.hisglory.us/documents/613_biblical_laws.htm |
Vchowdhury1
Registered user
Username: Vchowdhury1
Post Number: 44
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:07 am: | |
Does anyone know if the sda's are the only organization who makes a distinction between the ceremonial laws of Moses (Leviticus)and the 10 commandments? If so, do you know what their reference is? BecauseI can't find any other Christian group or organization that make the distinction other than sda and sda "spin-off" groups. Thanks.
--Valerie |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 53
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:51 am: | |
Glad you laughed Valerie, I kinda thought it was a bit too sarcastic for you nice folk! ;)
I just don't know sometimes! You really want people to "get it". the mind is a strong creation, I will say that! |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 395
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 12:03 pm: | |
Valerie, maybe check the Catholics...I think they get this from them. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 955
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 6:58 pm: | |
Just last night my 19 year old som commetted that at his grandma's church (sda) the only time he hears any reference to Jesus is either at the end of a prayer or if the name Jesus is in a song being sung. I complaminted him on being so observant. And, truly at this local church that is about it. Generally the sermons are inormercials for this or that sda money-needing program. Such as Maranartha, FFT, The Quiet Hour, Camps for Blind Kids, Adventist World Radio, and the list just goes on and on. There is almost no Bible in the sermons and even less Gosple. |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 9:26 pm: | |
The links which Chris gave about the Sabbath and Creation are very good, especially Clay Peck's article. Just to supplement those, here's a post that I posted on another discussion forum:
---
The Bible nowhere says that God sanctified the Sabbath before Israel crossed the Red Sea into the wilderness, especially for man. The Bible also nowhere says that the Sabbath was given to any man or kept by any man before the wilderness/Exodus 16.
Genesis 2:3 is an anachronism, meaning that it is talking about something which happened later on. Moses' writings contain many anachronisms. One example is Exodus 16:33-35: "And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omer full of manna therein, and lay it up before the LORD, to be kept for your generations. As the LORD commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept." That obviously did not happen right away, because the Testimony (Ten Commandments) had not been given yet. The reason for me saying Genesis 2:3 is one of Moses' (inspired) anachronisms, is because of the rest of the Bible, and because of the verse itself! Note that Genesis 2:3 says that God sanctified the Sabbath sometime after the first seventh-day after creation! It says, "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." So sometime after God rested*, He sanctified the seventh-day, but this verse does not tell us when that happened. We need to look at the rest of the Bible to see when He sanctified it, since Genesis 2:3 does not tell us when, only that it was sometime after the first seventh-day, on which God rested*!
[*Note two things about that rest on the first seventh-day. One, it nowhere says that Adam rested, only that God rested. Second, the type of rest was not a "Sabbath" (Hebrew definition "intermission") type of rest; the word for Sabbath is not used. God's rest was a "ceasing" (that's the Hebrew definition for the word used) type of rest. This was not an "intermission"/"Sabbath", rest 1 day work 6 days, type of rest! It was not a Sabbath ("intermission")! He ceased from creating the world. Note that He did not start creating again on Sunday, or any other day. But the Bible says that because God did rest ("cease") from creating the world on the seventh-day, that is why He chose the seventh-day to be the Sabbath when He gave it to Israel in the wilderness as the sign of the Old Covenant (Exodus 31).]
So, what does the Bible tell us about when exactly God gave the Sabbath. Well, the first time God giving the Sabbath is recorded is in Exodus 16. But do we have other pasages that say that that is when the Sabbath was given? Yes! We do! Look at the following verses:
Quote:
"The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, [even] us, who [are] all of us here alive this day." "And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day." Deuternonomy 5:3, 15 KJV.
"Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant: And gavest them bread from heaven for their hunger, and broughtest forth water for them out of the rock for their thirst, and promisedst them that they should go in to possess the land which thou hadst sworn to give them." Nehemiah 9:13-15 KJV.
"Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which [if] a man do, he shall even live in them. Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them." Ezekiel 20:10-12 KJV.
So we see that the Sabbath was given to Israel as a sign between God and them (meaning no Gentile was allowed to keep it, or else it couldn't be a sign for Israel, and could not separate Israel from the Gentiles) after Israel left Egypt, crossed the Red Sea, and went into the wilderness.
---
Now if only we could get Dale Ratzlaf to see that Genesis 2:3 is an anachronism... ;-) I think the similar wording of the Ten Commandments is definitely proof that it is.
Jeremy |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 415
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 5:37 pm: | |
I agree with you on this Jeremy. Gen. 2:3 is indeed an anachronism, a technique that is indicative of the rest of the Mosaic writings. I too was suprised that Ratzlaff's chapter on Gen. 2 didn't point this out more strongly.
Chris |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 773
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 10:39 am: | |
I agree also. Good point about Gen. 2. The references are clear that the Sabbath was not a command until the Sinai desert (first given along with the manna in Ex 16), and it was intended for Israel alone.
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 641
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 9:33 pm: | |
I started this thread talking about my youngest sister who lives near me. Tonight we went shopping for our grandchildren together. On the way to the store I asked her if she had ever felt guilty working on Saturday. She said no, she did not, as she was doing what she had to do to support her 3 children and herself (her husband had left them with very little). I said good, I am so happy to hear that. Then I told her that I had not felt guilty doing things on Friday nights and Saturdays. Then I asked her what she understood about the state of the dead. She said it was a profound sleep. I explained the best I could about the soul going to heaven or elsewhere and she accepted that. Last of all she said that she was not sure if she would be saved or not. I asked her if I could tell her how she could know and she said no. But at least she is talking a little bit about what she believes. So I thank God for that. That is the most we have talked of our beliefs. Usually she does not want to talk about religious things. So, I thank each one of your for your prayers. God is working on her heart and I want to cry because I am so happy about it. Please continue praying for her and me that I will be the example that God wants me to be and that I be a loving older sister. God will provide the opportunity to share with her that all she has to do is accept Jesus and love him with all her soul, all her might and all her heart and her neighbors as herself. God is indeed very awesome.
Diana |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 810
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 10:03 am: | |
I'm praying for her now, Diana, and for you, that God will give you His wisdom and words. Praise Him!
Colleen |
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra
Post Number: 229
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 3:23 pm: | |
Praying too Diana! |
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