| Author |
Message |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1031
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 10:41 am: |     |
I have learned very much from ou, Chris. Thank-you for your patience with me and all my "dumb" questions. I can't say that I fully understand some of these concepts but I do accept them. As I stated at the beginning of this study greater theological minds (scholars) than mine have studied these things and now I will add you to my list of those scholars. I appriciate all the time and effort you put into this study. Once again, thank-you. Sincerely, Susan |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 175
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 9:26 pm: | |
I am sorry you feel that way Chris. What is the following.
The Great I am?
The father?
The Son?
God?
You are starting to mix me up again. And I am startimg to not understand again. You are casting another doubt in my direction. |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 176
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 2:50 pm: | |
Chris If I do pray to Jesus why can I not just go directly to God himself and bypass Jesus? If God and the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all the same. I would think that I can go directly to God?
I am still having much problem in the trinity thing and I am trying to understand it and see it as you have shown. I am having problems with many verses that are in the NT that seperate God and Jesus. But then there are verses that put them together. I don't understand and I am very lost on this subject.
Also were do I post on questions about the law and Jesus and what he did with the law. Should we follow Jesus as how to live a life of a christian? What thread should I go to?
From a struggling person
speakeasy |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 177
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 7:19 am: | |
Anybody;
Please any direction on any of my questions would be great.
Also were do I get information on Christmas and Easter.
speakeasy |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 71
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 7:42 am: | |
I can't explain things as well as Chris, but it seems to me that since the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all God as "three in one" and are equal, you should be able to pray to any or all. You could pray to the Father, to Jesus, to the Holy Spirit, or to God (all as one).
If you want to start a new discussion, you can do that by going to the main Discussion topics screen, scroll to the bottom, and click on "Start New Thread" in the bottom left corner. Give it a title, and start your questions, and then post.
Hope that helps! |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 555
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 11:37 am: | |
I'm not sure where to find specific information on Christmas and Easter...and not sure what your questions are. But as I have always been taught, the day is not the issue, the event is. We simply remember the birth of Christ on Christmas, and his resurrection on Easter. I have NEVER heard anyone try to say those were the exact dates of his birth or resurrection. Some people talk about the particular day's historical pagan roots, and that may well be, and certainly those events are also being heavily secularized in our culture, but any celebration is what you make it. I know a girl who's baby was born on April 1, and she was horrified that she had an april fools baby. Well, she's only an april fool's baby if her parents make her one. My birthday is December 25....merry Christmas! We individually put Christ in Christmas and Easter, regardless of what those around us do. That doesn't make it wrong to enjoy parts of the secularization or to even enjoy secular events ... how many of us have prayer services on 9/11? Or celebrate thanksgiving? Or July 4? I know you've said you like history in the past, but if history steals your joy on the present, maybe the past is better left there...in the past??? Just a thought. |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 178
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 2:24 pm: | |
Fair enough Melissa. You are probably correct. But if you don't know what you believe and know were you come from and what you are suppossed to stand on. Then how do you know if things are true or not. How do you know what you have excepted to be true is not full of distortions and untruths or just not correct at all.
Like calling the day we celebrate our saviour raised from the dead. And calling it Easter. We know the word "Easter" In a christian since there is nothing worng with it at all. But the word has big time pagan Babylon ties. If we know this to be true and I don't think anybody would say that the word Easter does not have pagan ties. Why doesn't the church just say "It's Ressurection Day" ? This would be more of what the day is actually all about. We as christians don't use other words with our worship with our Lord that have pagan ties or bad out and out words that are not excepted in church or worship of our lord.
What I want is true worship and have nothing that is making me unclean in front of my God and saviour. I am just trying to do what Paul says. I don't want even the apperance of anything that is not of God.
speakeasy
speakeasy |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 560
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 7:45 am: | |
Speakeasy, I completely respect that. I don't know where the term Easter came from, but that doesn't change what it means today. There was a day in our culture "gay" was a woman's name. I know women named Gay and it is not at all pleasant in our culture. I guess it's a difference in intrisic evil verses created evil? The history of the term "easter" has no affect on what easter means to me today, neither does it negate my celebration of the resurrection. The term doesn't define my beliefs, so it's not really correct to say I don't know what I believe. As far as history and "where I come from", I spent years researching geneology. Just out of curiosity and because it was of interest to some others within my family. But I don't have to look very far into my family tree to find that I would not necessarily want to be "connected" to them. Look at the crusades. Look at Ireland and the "christians" battles in more recent history. In today's culture, even the word "Christian" can have bad connotations. So we work to define Christian...fundamentalist, evangelical, etc. to distinguish ourselves from those who abuse "our" name. I had a previous pastor who called Sunday "Lord's day" and rarely called it Sunday. In another thread, someone asked to refrain from using the term "sundaykeeper" because of it's history. If you have a concern and conviction using the term easter...don't use it. Pray about it and call it "resurrection day". I actually know people who do that because they are so irritated with the secularization of Easter. Look at what the world has done with Christmas ... and while I don't know, I would presume that IS a Christian term?? Should we still use it?
Your desire to honor God in what you do and say is wonderful, and I know God knows your heart. But to tie every term back to it's original historical meaning would seem to be quite a feat. If the terms bring a negative connotation to your celebration or worship, don't use it. But it is not an issue for me and others, and I wouldn't condemn people who probably have never really given it a second thought.
As far as being unclean before God, Jesus said it was the intent of the heart (what came out of the mouth verses what goes into the mouth) that makes one unclean. If you look in the dictionary for the term easter, it is defined as a Christian festival day to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus. No matter what it's historical meaning, that is what it means today. Using the term resurrection day doesn't change a person's heart any more than eating "clean" meat makes one clean.
Don't let Satan steal your joy and question your worship by putting unnecessary stumbling blocks in your path. God looks at your heart, and can get past our humanity. I can't tell you what to do or think, but I hope some of this helps as one perspective. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 876
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:04 am: | |
Well said, Melissa.
BTW, Richard heard a radio pastor a couple of years ago comment that because of Christmas, the entire world knows about Jesus. It is a universal holiday (except where it's banned) that everyone has heard of. I thought that was an interesting observation from an evangelistic point of view.
Colleen |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 179
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:53 am: | |
Satan is not stealing my life. I read what is contained in the bible I do my best to do the things and stay away from Known sins. I don't go into bars becuase I don't want the chance to become addicted to drinking. I don't smoke becuase I don't want to become addicted to tobacco. I read the bible and do what it says to do. Becuase I know it is the word of God and I want to please God. If I know Pagan ties to any type of worship to God then I will not and can not be appart of that.
In my search on pagan things that are attached to the worship of God. I will not have anything to do with them. But I know probably most of the people on this forum. Don't care about ties to pagan worship. But Paul says not to even have the appearance of these things and this is why I want to know these things.
Evil and created evil is still evil. They are the same. It is like Looking at porn and thinking of porn the 2 are evil and sinful. One is not worse than the other.
I have come to the conclusion. That you or at least I will really never know if I am pleasing to God until I stand in front of him and he says Good or bad. I will really never know untill I am being judged was I pleasing to God. But that does not mean I can't at least try to do the best that I can when God shows me in his word what to do and what not to do. It is like Paul says "For I did not know sin until the law came"
Please all of you do not read anything into what I have written as "We NEED TO KEEP THE LAW" No this is not what I am saying. I am saying we just need to keep what G-d has told us in his word.
speakeasy |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 561
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 11:27 am: | |
Calling the resurrection day "easter" is not a sin I've seen in scripture. Pagans have ties to eggs ("Easter eggs")...so should we not eat them ... are they evil now? They made a golden calf, so should we avoid cows altogether as well? Jesus said the love of money is the root of all evil. Some people think that means money is evil, but is that what he said? No on all accounts. There is nothing evil in nature about cows or eggs or money when used properly. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with the term "Easter" when used in reference to the resurrection day as it's commonly called today. I don't know what Biblical reference you are using to say "pagan ties" to any "type" of worship, does that include music? If pagans use music in worship, do you not use music in worship? If pagans pray in worship do we not pray? Your statement about banning anything that has "ties" to pagan worship eliminates a lot of options. To my knowledge, particularly in Ezekiel, the WORSHIP OF the objects was what was evil, not the objects themselves. By your porn example, I would have to assume that a cow is evil under all circumstances because some pagan worship included them. I'm not sure there is any means you could worship that has not been utilized by some pagan somewhere.
I'm really not trying to argue, just make sure that the Bible really condemns what you are saying it does. The Bible is more concerned with our heart than our ritual. David worshipped with dancing and singing and musical instruments and words...but pagans have used all those things as well. By your reasoning above, I wonder what is safe to use in worship at all and not have the appearance of evil. There is more to the context of Paul's statement as well, but I'm not going to address it here. I would challenge you to make sure you're reading the passages in context and applied as Paul would have intended his readers to apply them, that's all. |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 180
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 2:08 pm: | |
Well this is what God is telling me. I would have thought since we have the same Holy Spirit in you as I do in me. I thought other people may want to know this.
But I guess I am wrong. If no one cares then no one cares.
speakeasy |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 74
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 2:44 pm: | |
I think this area of how a Christian views holidays is not a moral issue, but an individual matter between each person and God. In the Old Testament times, it seems every single detail was spelled out by God as to what was correct and what wasn't. Since Jesus, there is freedom and liberty on all issues that are not moral. Romans 14:5 talks about one person esteeming one day above another and another person esteeming every day alike. Paul could have said which days should be esteemed above another, or he could have said all days should be considered alike. Instead, he said each person should be convinced in his own mind. The Holy Spirit may very well tell a person one thing different than what He tells another person, as long as it's not a moral issue. People are different from each other and see things differently and attach different meanings to things. I heard a parable type story once that illustrates my point, and I know I can't remember it exactly. The main point I remember is that in a particular church, only red ties were allowed with suits. When a new person came, they wore a blue tie, and everyone thought the person needed to be set straight. Later it was understood that the person with the blue tie could not wear a red tie because of a certain meaning attached to red ties for that person. There is freedom in Christ, and love and respect for others in Christ! |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 181
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 2:45 pm: | |
Why is my concerns on any topic. Is always the wrong view. I have noticed that I am always the one that is wrong. And I am the one that is very uninformed and wrong. I don't understand?
speakeasy |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 75
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 3:13 pm: | |
Please don't be discouraged, Speakeasy! I'm sure you must have a lot of things right, that you just haven't posted. And I have seen several things right that you've posted, such as a desire to please God in all things. God is growing each of us, including you, and I have seen positive changes over the last few weeks from your posts. I'm sure I don't have all the answers, and I don't understand everything. However, those of us who have found freedom in Jesus, are extra cautious about any belief system that places unnecessary restrictions on people. We see the New Testament giving us freedom to make up our own mind, and we want to enjoy that freedom. |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 195
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 2:08 pm: | |
Okay I have some more questions about the trinity after I spent almost 2 weeks re-reading and studying this topic more. I have some verses that I just don't know what to do with them. If we have one God and teaching The Father is God,Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
I still have much concern about this subject.
speakeasy |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 196
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 2:45 pm: | |
Is Chris still around or did he leave? I would love to talk with him. my email is
biblepage2000@yahoo.com
Chris if you would reply this would help me greatly.
Thanks
speakeasy |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 197
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 6:08 am: | |
Chris Are you still hear? Need your help.
Thanks
speakeasy |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 129
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 3:13 pm: | |
Speakeasy,
Chris said this in his last post:
quote:"I really felt a sense of spiritual warfare during this thread and, real or imagined, it wore on me greatly. Iím going to take a bit of a vacation now. Iíll be back when Iím refreshed and ready to go again. Weíll see you all later. God bless!
Chris"
Jeremy |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 198
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 9:52 am: | |
I still will be checking in every now and then. To see if he is back. Because I got a ton of questions. But I only want to talk with him. And not on the forum. So everybody can chim in. It gets to confusing when you have 5 and 6 and at one time 7 people all at one time getting involved.
Thanks
speakeasy |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 199
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 6:33 am: | |
Well I though Chris would have gotten back with me. He said he was going to take some time off and get refreshed and get back later. I have posted a few times hoping that you would get back with me about some questions. I know you are on the forum because I can read the other posts that you have been on.
I will not press the matter anymore than this. I don't expect Chris will get with me so I can ask him questions. But my email is
speakeasy@yahoo.com
if you have time and I know you do because you are on the forum please get with me. If not then that is okay. I will just live with what I have found in the bible and go with that.
speakeasy |
