| Author | Message | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 34 Registered: 7-2004 |
This is just a thought that I would like to through out to everyone for discussion, and I hope that I do not offend anyone, because God knows that this is not my intention  . I've noticed since joining the forum (which I really love)that there might be just a little to much bitterness (on the part of myself included)directed towards sda's as individuals, and also against those who attend non-sda Saturday keeping churches. I myself am bitter because its really a shock to find out that I've been lied to for 35 years! But in searching the scriptures myself, I found out on my own that a lot of sda doctrine are contrary and inconsistant with the Bible and that EGW is a fraud. Because of this, even though praising God for this miraculous light of understanding, I find myself lately praying very hard for the Lord to take away this feeling of anger towards, not only the sda organization, but towards sda people in general (especially the ministers that I feel have been decieving us-even though they probably have been decieved themselves-don't these ministers understand the scriptures). I think that anger and bitterness does no good. It has a tendancy to make us act and treat sda christians (and I do believe that there are some sda's that are Christians but are just brainwashed and ignorant of the truth, and also that some of them do have great questions in regards to Adventism, but are too afraid to raise questions because of reprocusions, etc.) the same that we have been treated by sda's since questioning and subsequently leaving the sda church except on the "opposite scale". I find myself (especially when I'm with my parents who are still staunch sda) making little snide and sarcastic remarks at times. For example, a couple of weeks ago my dad told me that in the LA Times paper, some person had predicted that a large magnitude earthquake would strike California that coming Saturday. I sarcastically responded, "Who predicted that? Was it EGW?? Everyone started nervously laughing with the exception of my dad. When I posted a message on this forum some days ago, and mentioned that I was attending a seventh-day baptist church, I was mildly jumped upon for not having the faith to totally break away from "the day". I admit, sometimes for some people, I guess, it is a gradual process. Especially those of us who still have close relatives and good friends who are still sda. It also takes some time to break the mere "habit" of going to church on Saturday (something like giving up cigaretts or other bad habits, sometimes you have to do it one step at a time). I think, who knows, If we can seem a little less bitter, we might even be able to attract "on the fence" sda's to our website. Oh, well, like I said, its just a thought that I'm throwing out there. I would invite everyone's opinion on this. Yours in Christ --Valerie | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 143 Registered: 6-2004 |
It's possible some are bitter towards the SDA because of the lies we've been exposed to, but I think in most cases, people are more on the disappointment side. Being deceived is not something we take lightly and how we deal with it can become one extreme or another. It's hard to continue on when these teachings haunt you in one form or another. All SDA issues have gradually worn off my life, however many still struggle with various topics. It's like a weed in a garden that keeps growing back even after you constantly remove it. I think we'd all should be in prayer as we do not want to have bitterness turn into hatred which can lead down a destructive path. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 493 Registered: 7-2003 |
Valerie, I can't speak as a former, but I can speak as one who was drawn into a relationship with an SDA under what seems to me to have been false circumstances. Part of the bitterness, I think, is a natural part of feeling betrayed. I am angry (in the loosest sense of the word, not an emotional anger) that there is a group out there that uses intentional deception to dupe trusting people like me out there into their world of superiority/inferiorityness. (allow me to create a word or two). I not only was affected by this relationship, but my two young children were hurt as well...and you know what they say about mommas protecting their young. That is what makes me the most aggitated...I told him and told him I didn't want anything that could hurt my kids and wouldn't even let them meet him until I felt there was enough common ground to build a future on. But he kept all the secrets until it was too late for any of us. And he knew what he was doing. His religion has spent years hiding their identity from the public. It is the intentionalness that still gets me going. This forum is a great place to safely and with some understanding voice the very real feelings that naturally come from betrayal. If it were betrayal of a spouse, the bitterness would be no different. What becomes unhealthy is when people "wallow" in their self-pity and are unable to find a way to heal and move on. Many of the more "mature" on this forum I believe can still identify with the pain, but may not necessarily "feel" it in the same sense any more. But they're here to mentor and encourage others that are going through this process. (Read the archives and see all the names of people who no longer post...can we presume a great number have healed and moved on to where this forum is no longer "needed" and they don't feel lead to "mentor" others???) It is a process. Even as I learn more and more about what the religion teaches and how it treats people, i fear for my son, who could some day be impacted by this religion. It is still a threat to my family and sometimes I get in a rut with my bitterness..but it eventually passes, thankfully, until the next incident. Many on here have lost family relationships and had to change their whole world of personal relationships...how can you not be impacted by that? I can recognize that as a parent of a disabled child. I remember how my "friends" were suddenly distant and cold as though my daughter had some contagious disease that was going to harm their children. I remember being ostracized. No it's not from adventism, but aren't the feelings of being rejected similar no matter what you're rejected from? There are a lot of emotions to be dealt with here and there is some legitimate concern for eternal security issues. To me, each one needs to work through their own way. The bags each person carries differs in size and weight ... and maybe family influence each day. This needs to be a safe haven to voice that bitterness and get it out of your system. Let God use the wisdom and experience of others who have traveled the road to bring healing to our lives now. No need to reinvent the wheel. Isn't that what Biblical community is about? Caring for the broken and hurting? Too bitter? only if that's the state you want to stay in. If it's just a phase you're passing through down the road to healing, I don't think there is such a thing. My thoughts.... | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 143 Registered: 7-2004 |
Valerie, Thank you for your thoughts. God is good and leading us all. I think sometimes it is easy to let my feelings of relief (to know in the deepest part of my soul that God's way is not the SDA way for me) mix with the bitterness. It's also easy to forget how hard it was to finally realize God's way and get frustrated that my SDA friends and family "just don't get it!!" I have sent several friends to this forum who have just started their long journey in the process of searching for God's direction for them in regards to Adventism. I have recommended this sight because I know what it has meant for me to "hang-out" with a group of people who have a love for God like I do and who have also had similar hurts, betrayals, disappointments, rejections...! I always stress to these people that this forum is Christ-centered and that there is very little bitterness. I agree with you, Valerie. We do need to safely air our hurts and griefs but always with the hope of knowing that with Jesus all our emotions can be made new! It is all part of what God is using to "work together for our good". I greatly appreciate and value everyone's acceptance and friendship on this forum. May God continue to bless each of us with one another's unconditional love. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 580 Registered: 3-2004 |
I was very angry at the leaders in the GC when I found out about EGW and the deception perpetrated on the members of the SDA church. The leaders in the GC have known about EGW since day one of the SDA church. I have since turned that anger over to God. He knows what to do about the whole situation and I want to do my part. I can get sarcastic and want to warn everyone about the SDA church. I have to pray that God put the words in my mouth. I was raised SDA but my leaving has been very peaceful as my name was taken off the church books long ago. My parents are dead and my son, brothers and sisters no longer attend the SDA church so there have been no nasty comments there. Some of my family still hang on to vestiges of the SDA church, but do not say anything to me about my decisions. Each one of us has to work through the deception we have been through and this is a safe place to do that. I like what Melissa says above, "Too bitter? only if that's the state you want to stay in." That is each person's decision to stay there or not. AS for me, I choose to move on with God leading me. Diana | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 34 Registered: 9-2004 |
I think we must ALWAYS remember that this battle is a spiritual battle against the wiles of the devil and wickedness in high places. And what this ultimately means is that the enemy desires to reach our Lord and destroy his people,us, in the form false prophets, deciet, lying, killing, stealing. If we can remember that this thing called life is as much a spiritual battle as it is a natural one and that the enemy seeks to destroy and take all that he can to hell with him, THEN you can refocus your anger into a Godly anger toward the devices that attack those we love and know in these kinds of religions. Anger is good if used appropriately to fight the spiritual battles (being deceived in the mind, heart etc)by WITNESSING to those that are bound and in confusion not to mention the completely lost. This, as I am learning, requires us to study to show ourselves approved in the Word of God, to rightly divide the Word of God and to speak to all in love regarding the these things <of God.> Anger about the enemy's tactics to destroy God's people fuels me to want to win souls. The truth spoken in love wins the souls. And the truth sets them free. Remember that those years of lies fed to you is because even they are/were decieved. They themselves are also victims, PW. That's why God tells us to study His word for ourselves and the HS will help us. You'll be fine PW, just redirect your anger. Tracey | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 35 Registered: 9-2004 |
oops! That was to VChowdury.. ; ) | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 35 Registered: 7-2004 |
Everyday since finding out the truth about the sda church, I am bombarded by mixed feelings of anger, bitterness, disapointment and also a since of relief (but, thank God for the Relief). I want to shout the desception of the sda church from the roof tops. I too, don't want my 11 year old son to have anything to do with the sda church or its affiliates. I think where my bitterness and disapointment is coming from is that my parents who are still staunch sda pick up my son after school, and he is over their house at least for 3 hours before I pick him up and my mom sometimes, takes this time to fill his head with all kinds of pro-sda junk. For example, when he told his grandmother (my mom)that he was no longer an sda, she told him "oh, that means that you don't believe in the second coming of Christ??" My son was very hurt and offended by this, but thank God he is a smart little boy and realized that what his grandmother was saying was pure junk. And, he knows that ALL Christians are looking forward to the coming of Christ. I also, read to him Romans 14 from the New Living Bible, where it talks about not critizing other Christians for what they eat or don't eat (she also critizes him for eating shrimp), or what days they decide to keep holy or if they decide to keep no days holy. These choices are between us and God. Like I said, thank God he is smart and understands this. | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 37 Registered: 9-2004 |
I can feel what you are saying.. and your boy will be covered by you, regardless of his other family. God entrusted that little boy to you. And you are his biggest influence. You can trust in God that your boy will follow the footsteps of his dad until his own relationship with the Lord develops into full maturity in Christ. And YOU know, that's all any of us need. He will learn the same for himself too and even probably knows it now by watching you. | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2004 |
Tracey, I hope he doesn't follow in the footsteps of his dad (His dad is Muslim  . I'm his mom (a Christian). --Valerie | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 43 Registered: 7-2004 |
Most of the time this site is a great blessing and provides a much needed "oneness" with people who understand each others struggles. Sometimes, though, I find the thoughts and attitudes more distressing than blessing. As SDAs it was such a common practice to be overly concerned with making sure people knew the right doctrines and agreed with us on every detail. In spite of leaving SDAism, that attitude seems to prevail at times in conversations. Knowing doctrines can never compare to knowing the Author. Perfect doctrinal knowledge never saves us. The obsession with "pure" doctrine and agreement on doctrine is, I believe, a holdover from the SDA indoctrination. There is no doubt that incorrect understandings about God make it harder for us to understand and accept His gift to us. It also feels sometimes that the tone of the board isn't equally welcoming to all formers. Instead the warmest reception is for those formers who now accept a very specific new set of beliefs. Formers who have come to different conclusions do not seem as readily accepted. Do we still think that it is necessary to all believe the same? If not, perhaps we can all demonstrate that a bit more consistently. | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 37 Registered: 7-2004 |
Ric_b, Amen, Amen. Sometimes while posting on this forum, it seems that I almost have to watch what I say because of the sometimes negative reactions myself or other people receive if we don't agree with the sentiments of the majority of the "formers". --Valerie | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 109 Registered: 9-2003 |
Uh, apologies, V. Please feel VERY welcome. - Hoytster | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 120 Registered: 3-2004 |
Iíve posted this before, but it would seem this might be a good time to put it again. As Melissa said, we are each dealing with betrayal at some level. For some of us, the SDA church has(had) been a lifelong lifestyle. Some of us have had to process through being angry with God, with pastors, with family etc. All this takes time because of our human emotional make-up. I believe you react like #4 and #5 often subconsciously to keep from being hurt even more. Unfortunately, our minds just arenít able to work through 1-7 almost instantly. Time and the goodness of God are what heals. 1. doubt--To be undecided or skeptical about; to tend to disbelieve; distrust; to regard as unlikely 2. disappointment--defeat or failure of expectation or hope; a feeling of dissatisfaction that results when your expectations are not realized 3. disillusionment--freeing from false belief or illusions; the condition or fact of being disenchanted 4. disdain--To regard or treat with haughty contempt; despise 5. distancing--Emotional separateness or reserve; aloofness. 6. disaffection--To cause to lose affection or loyalty; the feeling of being alienated from other people 7. dissolution--Annulment or termination of a formal or legal bond, tie, or contract. For the most part, Iíve been very blessed by this forum. I see where people are honestly trying their best to not be critical, judgmental or bitter. In fact, when you consider the environment most of us lived in for many years, I believe itís a great testimony to the Holy Spiritís power working within us that this forum isnít much more bitter and angry. We have all dealt with some major losses. We are all at different stages of healing and Iím so grateful that God allowed me to have the veil removed so I could learn all Iíve been learning. Praise GodÖ | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 582 Registered: 3-2004 |
I was thinking since I posted on here earlier that leaving the SDA church is like going through the grief cycle. Some one else has posted it on here some where else. Each of us goes through the cycle differently and some of us have more to feel bitter and disillusioned about than others. The important thing is that we work through it and we do not have to do it by ourselves. So some are more bitter than others. That is okay as long as they do not get stuck where they are. Just keep on asking God for help as we work through our hurt, bitterness and disillusionment. I feel like Praise God. "I have been very blessed by this forum and I do believe that it is a great testimony to the Holy Spirit's power working in us that this forum isn't much more bitter and angry." We have reason to be bitter and angry, but as long as we keep turning to God, He will work all that out. The relationship I developed with God in my 12 step program has helped me when I first decided not to rejoin the SDA church and realized all the deception that had been foisted on me and all other SDAs. My relationship has kept on growing with all of your help here on the forum. Every day I see how awesome God is. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 41 Registered: 7-2004 |
This is a good topic for me because I know I've been angry with the people in power within SDAism, and have often wondered how much the individual ministers know about the deception within the SDA church. I also can understand the hunger to understand the pure gospel, having believed the lie and and suffered with the added guilt that is part of that great lie. I also rejoice that the Lord has seen fit to show me more of His pure gospel and to place in my life other Christians who celebrate the fact that Jesus has paid for our sins and provided an avenue for us to come before God in safety. Looking back I can't see how I allowed myself to be deceived for as long as I was. I had glimpses of His real truth every time I opened his Word, but was convinced because other people who seemed confident because they were more studied than me had told me to see things a certain way. I was really gullible! Now I'm cautious, every time a doctrine is presented to me as proof of one thing or another I usually tell them to hold on a while so I can study it out for myself. Doctrinal issues are still very important to me because I don't want to be deceived again! There are things that I believe to be scriptural now that were considered the works of the devil when I was within SDAism. I tend to go back and study those issues over again and again until I'm totally convinced, scripturally, by its validity. Of course some of the issues I've studied out really don't matter in the overall (such as the rapture), most important is making sure, from my soul, that I know where my salvation comes from (Jesus only), and what I am required to do to earn it (faith in Jesus Christ). After a lifetime of works-faith it was unsettling to back off on myself and simply depend in faith. It was unsettling when I backed away from the Sabbath. Almost knee shaking to eat meats that had been forbidden when they were offered to me. I've since found that I never stop sabbathing, and that it's more important not to offend a host or hostess than it is to adhere to a special diet. There is so much more love and acceptance in being there for the rest of Jesus' flock. It doesn't matter what denominational name that flock is called by! I do totally agree that there are true Christian believers within the SDA church because I was raised by a father who was all Christian as well as all SDA. My mother tended to be SDA first, but her heart, too, was in the right place. Bottom line is that we are all seeing through a dark glass, even in our current enlightened state. Once we are on the other side we will be amazed at how little we knew, but that what we knew was enough to bring us to Jesus. It's okay to be angry at a devious system, but always remember that all of the people within that deluded system are still prospective children of God. We can respond to questions as to why we have turned away from "the truth" toward the real truth, but we cannot be angry at individuals who remain deluded. You can normally tell after you've been with someone for a while whether or not they have been deluded or chosen to believe the lie. Even then, you pray for them because as long as they draw breath they can still be touched by the Holy Spirit. Jesus loves me, this I know... Jesus wants me to love you, this I know. That pretty much contains it all! Not a lot of anger in that. Belva | ||
| Nancy Registered user Username: Nancy Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2004 |
Has anyone ever wondered when someone will call their hand on these matters or rather expose them. Should we as Christians do this or just let it ride while they pull desperate people that are searching, into their system. That's what I hate to see b/c I've seen it done through those Revelation Seminars only for them to fall away one by one b/c of the demands the church puts on them. All my life I would hear about your relationship w/ Christ from other Christians and I saw how happy they were and lived. I didn't know the first thing about that b/c I was caught up in trying to do the right things and keeping the Sabbath correctly. That kept me in such spirtual depression and I got to where I just went through the motions as to please everyone. I know God's hand was in me and my husband leaving b/c that's when I started the journey back home w/ God that pointed out to me in scripture that he loved me unconditionally and all those "things" are man made conditions not his. I had to learn to trust again and yes, the angered fueled for the longest b/c I was so long in to a system that controlled, lied to me, misled me, and are still doing so to others that are still caught up. These people have absolutely nothing to do w/ us---we're like "lost" to them---those that have fallen away. Little do they know the happiness I've found and the real message to the world---John 3:16 is just one of them. | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 38 Registered: 9-2004 |
Amen Nancy. Well said. | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2004 |
Nancy,I think that people have been trying to expose the sda church for years and years Remember the book THE WHITE LIE by ex-sda pastor Walter Rea, and even going back farther than that the book by ex-sda pastor Canright or Canfield ? (I forget what his name is). He worked directly with the Whites and tried to expose both Ellen and James as frauds during the early 1900's! and look at the numerous other publications that are now out on the internet. But remember, when all of us were still sda how did WE receive any critisizim of the sda church? We thought that the people trying to "expose US" were Satanic, mislead, lost, misguided, and filled with darkness. So, I think thats how most members of the sda's church will take any critisizm of their religion today. Also, they believe that anyone who leaves the church or any non-members who talk against the church is either rebellious, angry, misguided, has some sin they don't want to give up, or under the rule of Satan. Even my mom tells people at my former sda church that I'm just angry about something that happened in church and I'll be back. Remember, we've even discussed in the forum ways to expose books, other publications, and seminars as to let people know that these are just tools used by sda's to "hook" people. And, I think that the most powerful tool the sda organization has over its member is when they tell them that leaving the sda church is "detrimental" to their very salvation. This is very powerful. I myself struggled with this once upon a time. So when we talk about exposing the sda's as frauds on this forum, I think that they have already been exposed, its just the point that the sda membership won't believe us. They'll just say that we're "bitter". Plus, the only perspective they have as to the founding of the sda church is the perspective that the sda conference wants them to have. Very few of them will take the time out on their own to do independant "research" on the beginnings of the sda church or the "failed" prophesies of EGW unless they're very "open minded" and trying to find an avenue to leave anyway (I didn't start researching this until an incident made me open minded and READY to recieve the truth of the gospel instead of the truth of adventism. --Valerie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 728 Registered: 12-2003 |
I like what Diana said above about going through a grieving process. Leaving Adventism, for most os us, involves exactly that. It is a loss of identity, a loss of lifestyle, a loss of family and community. It is a loss of core beliefs. The process of grief includes five stages, and people move back and forth among those stages for months or even a a few years. they include (I hope I can remember them all!) denial, bargaining, anger, depression, and acceptance. Even when we know that God is guiding us to this completely new place, we still experience these emotions--some more intensely than others. As I've said before, Richard struggled with anger much more than I did. He was angry at being betrayed, angry at having paid so much $$ into the organization, angry at the willful deception of Adventists throughout the decades when they KNEW better but refused to rock the boat. I experienced more depression. I felt as if I were going through a divorce--I felt I was losing absolutely everything about me than identified me and that I loved. I have also read that leaving Adventism requires at least two years (and sometimes more) of debriefing, just as those who leave more clearly identitifed cults need at least two years of debriefing before they can function in healthy fellowship again. I can absolutely say from my own experience that this is true. It takes extended Bible study, worshiping with others who don't have Adventist backgrounds, and continual prayer for the teaching of the Holy Spirit to come to the point where one is literally healed of the subtle false teachings and the various kinds of psychological, spiritual abuse that Adventism perpetrated. it is a spiritual war, and it takes time to heal and deepen in Jesus. Ric_b, your point about doctrines is also a good one. As Dale Ratzlaff says (I'll quote him again!), Where the Scriptures are clear, we must be certain. Where they are not clear, we must be tentative. I don't believe that the body of Christ should be divided over Biblically unclear issues. Some doctrines, I've found, begin to look different the longer I'm out of the church. When I left, for instance, I had come to disbelieve soul sleep (although I don't believe we an really make any definitive statement about what one experineces after death), but I had 't begun to get close considering the possibility of eternal punishment. The longer I simply studied the Bible, however, the more it seemed real. I don't believe we can make absolute, definitve statements where the Bible does not clarify details. I am coming to believe, however, that what I believe is significant because of what it means about Jesus. Like Belvalew said above, I'm now cautious, and I don't accept anyone's teaching on an issue anymore. I have to study the Bible and pray for God's guidance myself. And yes, in some of the less-defined areas, true Christ-followers will differ--and they will probably feel fairly deeply about their respective views. But that's OK. There's really no substitute for being able to discuss these things with each other, because those without our Adventist experience truly do not understand what we've been through. Yes, there are varying degrees of anger and heat depending upon our stages of growth and grief. And I also acknowledge that there are some doctrinal areas I feel quite strongly about because the deception and the twisting of the gospel that surrounded them in Adventism was so great. Please forgive me if I've hurt anyone with my statements. Praise God for being in charge of us and for guiding us to Himself! Colleen |
