| Author | Message | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 54 Registered: 7-2004 |
Last night we had an innocent conversation that turned into her confession of issues within the sda faith. she stated that she wished that she could be baptist. when we started going over scripture she really was open minded. so i began telling her the origin of the sda faith and the great disappointment, which she actually didn't understand. certain things i left out because i wanted to consult you all first. 1. Is it true that Jehovahs witnesses, also sprang out of the aftermath of the great dissapointment? 2. Did Ellen G. White come up with the sabbath idea or was it this Bates individual? 3. How many of Her prophecies came true? 4. What is the origional beginnings of the SDA church? Any more information I would love to have. She is asking lots of questions and offering to go to church with me. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 970 Registered: 11-2002 |
I hope you go to Dirk's website. He has a large amount of this sort of info onthere. Also, go to www.watchthetowr.org (please, notice the word "the" between the words "watch" and "tower" above) and click on the info about the beginings of the SDA. Mr. Blizzard has a lot on there showing the early beginnings in common of the SDA and JW. If memory serves me right she first heard about Sabbath from a Seventh Day Baptist lady. And, she first was introduced to vegetarianism by a Catholic lady. She really had NO origional ideas. The only origional things to come from the SDA is the GC, the IJ and then the awsome ablilty to connect lots and lots of goofy ideas into one body and then convince people it is the truth. I did post down a bit about her prediction of the Great San Francisco earthquake. The trouble is that this prediction of hers comes after the earthquake had already happened. Again, I think you can get all the facts to all these questons on Dirk's website. Good going! I'm happy to hear about the breakthrew. Prayers are being answered. BTW,if she wants to be Baptist then maybe you can tell her she can be Baptist. Just reassure her hat it really is o.k. I think former SDA's need a lot more reassurance on things like han than people not raised or having been SDA for long periods. It goews back to salvation being a church membership thing. Please, keep giving her the reassurance she seems to be needing. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 757 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hrob, The Whites got their Sabbath information from Joseph Bates, a sea captain and a seventh-day Baptist. Prior to Bates's teaching them, they did not espouse Saturday worship. After his teaching, Ellen suddenlty began to have confirming words from the Lord about the Sabbath. These ultimately led to the doctrine that the Sabbath was the testing truth at the end of time. Hrob, have you read any of Dale Ratzlaff's books? You (and your fiancee) really must read Cultic Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventists and Sabbath in Christ. The only way a seventh-day Adventist can leave the Sabbath behind is to understand from scripture both how fraudulent EGW was and how Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant and instituted the new. Adventist do not really see a difference between the old and the new covenants. They say they are different expressions of the same thing. You can order these books from www.ratzlaf.org. They will be most helpful and will answer just about any question you or an Adventist might have about the Sabbath doctrine, the law, the new covenant, etc. Cultic Doctrine will explain in detailed clarity how the SDA church formed and became a movement. Yes, the JW movement also grew out the Millerite Great Disappointment. There were, in fact, some Adventist ties in Charles T. Russle's life (he founded the JW movement). Praise God for your fiancee's openness. Colleen | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 55 Registered: 7-2004 |
I need to get those books like yesterday, colleen. I just got off of the phone with her and I don't know where it came from but she is having some serious personal isssues with seventh day adventists. | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 48 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hrobinsonw, There are some very interesting & good websites that you can also go to for information regarding the origins of the sda church. One is www.ellenwhite.org, and also a very, very good one that I just discovered is www.isitso.org. Both of these are very useful. They explain the origins of the sda church and that of EGW. The website isitso.com also explains the origins of several different religions and its founders like sda, wwcg, jw, etc. I think it will really be useful for you your fiance'. Please access them and tell me what you think  --Valerie | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 56 Registered: 7-2004 |
valerie, Those sites are very nice. The break down of her head injury is compelling. I also read from other sources that she was subjected to mercury therefore possibly giving her mercury poisoning. Both of which would cause hallucination. And the second site that you gave is also interesting because of the Jehovah Witness history. It seems that they share the same viewpoint of the 144,000 as the SDA do. I didn't know that until now. Thank you. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 152 Registered: 7-2004 |
Valerie, Thanks for the isitso.org site -- what I find most fasinating is the webauthor's research. It is a wonderful site to send our SDA friends and family to because it is just info without emotions, personal vengefullnes or history. | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 60 Registered: 9-2004 |
Praise God for Hrob's fiancee coming around.. I wish that were the case with my dearest C. I suggested we visit a rabbi that believes in Jesus but worships on Saturday and let him explain how there is only 1 law. And that would lead to how Christ fulfilled it all. He actually said "what good would that do b/c Why isn't he sacrificing animals if he keeps sabbath?" Meaning, if there is only 1 law, then how do you only keep part of it. I explained to him that he doesn't understand the concept of Grace.That that rabbi worships on Saturday but knows he is no longer bound to one day but still chooses that day because of the freedom that he has in Christ. And the grace that comes by faith in Jesus that he did it all. He said "You believe it's done a way with" I said Yes, the Word says it's made obsolete and vanished! Cuz Jesus fulfilled it. He goes, But Jesus said that he didn't come to do away with it. I am going to go cry -- I hate EGW. This is ruining my life! And it's ruining his! I hate the devil for deceiving people. I am sick of this stuff. Just sick of it! I am so sad. I wish I never knew about SDA anything. <no offense> Please keep me in prayer. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 976 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear Tracey, I will pray for you and your situtation. I hope you know that on this discussion board you do have folks who can emphasise with you and what you are facing. And, it's o.k. to cry. | ||
| 33ad Registered user Username: 33ad Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2004 |
Dear Tracy, Here is another good site about Adventists. Stephen has no previous SDA ties. Just did some good honest research and he presents his case well. We're all praying for you. Loren | ||
| 33ad Registered user Username: 33ad Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2004 |
Sorry Her's the site: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/index.html | ||
| 33ad Registered user Username: 33ad Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2004 |
Sorry Here's the site: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/index.html | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 61 Registered: 9-2004 |
Thank you both. I feel better this morning. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 509 Registered: 7-2003 |
Tracey, B also says the same thing and improperly quotes Matthew 5 as well. Yes, Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law...but finish the sentence...he says he did come to FULFILL it. B tap dances around that one saying he couldn''t have fulfilled it because there is still sin in the world and the law points out sin...so it doesn't really make an impact. It seems to be running the same course for you it did for me. In the beginning, B almost acted as a cultural adventist ... and he started studying their 27 fundamentals diligently early on as I began to challenge him...but he merely became defensive through time and is more SDA now than he ever seemed in the beginning. It's kindof like beating up your brother. You can talk bad about him all you want, but if someone else does, you're there in his defense. Susan is right. There is empathy and support here. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 55 Registered: 7-2004 |
I'm familiar with the Stephen Korsman website that 33ad posted. I actually came across that website around six years ago, which was part of my first exposure to anything anti-SDA on the internet. He certainly does a good job of laying out the facts. At the time, I thought he was so sincere, but so confused, and I even conversed by e-mail with him several times! I'm sure he doesn't remember me, but if he did, he might be interested to know that he planted some seeds and I finally "got it" and am no longer SDA. (On the other hand, I get the idea he wouldn't really think he had done his job unless I also became Catholic, which won't happen for me!) | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 57 Registered: 7-2004 |
Ladies, I just read Greg Taylor's "Manifesto." Very well put together literature. I mean absolutely monumental. I also read a snippet of something from Dale Ratzlaff, I left it at home so I can't remember the name. But WOW. I am emailing Greg Taylor's to my parents. The first part is a journey through the SDA experience. But the actual discussion of scripture is powerful. I found so many gems in his analyzation. It made me come to a realization. God has an interesting calling on my life and I feel it. I should be dead twice. Not many people can say that. It is time that I put down this level of stupidity that I carry and began preparing myself for service. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction ladies. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 979 Registered: 11-2002 |
About the verse in Matt. 5 about Jesus hving come to fullfill the law. This s an oft used text by my mom. She say thi text alone prooves we are bound by the 10 Commandments, especially the fourth. Why? Because the word is "fullfill" current tense. Not "fullfilled" past tense. Also, she gets going then back to the SDA line of Jesus being our example and He kept the Sabbath so we too must. He too ate o pork or unclean meats so as our example we too must not have baby back ribs. Then if I say something like, "Well, He also observd Passover, The Feast of This or the Feast of That, He also was circumsised, ..." you now where I'm going I'm just told those laws were abolished. It is so frustrating. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 513 Registered: 7-2003 |
I love it when they brought up he ate meat, because I always ask why they now refuse meat... Of course, that's where EGW comes in with her "advanced" light...she knew more than Jesus did. Go figure. I have often found that some of the things B says "scripture" says may work in a particular translation in the English language, but comes up full of holes in the original languages. Unfortunately, I do not know the original languages. That's where I have to remember it's really not an argument about scripture. It's an argument about being Adventist. He just says it's about scripture to look respectible. In my opinion.... | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 514 Registered: 7-2003 |
well, I guess that should be "I love it when they BRING up..." or "I LOVED it when they brought up... " if you want to changed ask to askED. I do remember some grammar... | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2004 |
About Matthew 5: The Greek word for "destroy" (KJV) or "abolish" (NASB, NIV), according to Strong's concordance, can mean, "to loosen down (disintegrate), i.e. (by impl.) to demolish..." So "destroy" may actually be a better translation of that word. Pastor J. Mark Martin has said that it means He didn't come to "bulldoze" the Law--in other words He didn't come to "overthrow/tear down/demolish" the Law but came to fill it up/complete it/finish it/fulfill it! It's looks like a sort of opposites are being portrayed by Jesus--tear down vs. fill up. But Ephesians 2:15 says that Jesus did abolish the Law. The Greek word there is a different word. Strong's concordance says that word means, "to be (render) entirely idle (useless)..." It's also the same word that's used in 2 Corinthians 3. So Jesus did abolish/do away with/disannul (Hebrews 7:18) the Law! God bless, Jeremy |
