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Vchowdhury1
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Username: Vchowdhury1

Post Number: 47
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of any or have proof of any so-called "visions" of EGW that have come true as of this date? My mom (who is a staunch SDA)and I had a discussion about the trouble that is happening with Paul Crouch founder of TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network). He is being accused of paying off a former TBN worker to not reveal a homosexual tryst between them. Here is my mom's opinion of Paul and Jan Crouch, "Oh well, I don't feel sorry for them because they are Sunday keepers, and they will probably be the ones who persecute us during the time of trouble anyway". I asked her "How do you know that only Sabbath keepers will be persecuted? What makes you think that all those Sabbath-keeping religions which are many besides sda's would just sit back and let a Sunday law pass without even a "wimper". I told her that I think that in the last days Christians will be pursecuted, not just sda. I told her that we need to have the seal of the "Holy Spirit", not the seal of the Sabbath. She said that she believes that only Sabbath keepers will be persecuted because thats what the "Spirtit of Prophesy" (meaning, of course EGW) says. This made me think. Has anything EGW said come true yet. Anything. Anyone can predict the far future when everyone probably will be dead and can care less. But what had she predicted in her time that has come to pass in her time or by today's date? One of signs of a true prophet is making correct predictions, right? If nothing has come true, how do the sda's have a "leg to stand on"?? There're living in a brainwashed fantasy world.
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 969
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, EGW predicted the Great San Francisco earthquake. I'm not exactily certain when the earthquake occured but I'm sure it was in the way early 1900's, I think 1903. The only problem with this prophecy of hers though is that she made the prophecy after the earthquake had already happened. I asked my dad the very same question, Valerie and when he told she had prophised the great earthquake I asked the only question that seemed to be tha natural follow-up. I said, "Then how come when the people in S.F. heard the big earthquake was going to hit, how come they didn't leave so they at least wouldn't lose their lives? I would think at least the S.F. SDA's would have left". But, then my dad told me the SDA's in California didn't know she had forseen the earthquake in time to get away. After further questioning and research I found out she predicted the earthquake after it happened but she told everyone she knew about it before it happened but had failed to communicate the warning in time so the faithful didn't get word of her prophecy about the earthquake until after it happened. Did what I just wrote make any sense at all? If I was to read it I'd say "no". However, we are discussing EGW so that is about as much sense as it's going to make. My SDA kin always stress to me about how advanced EGW was about health. It's a myth. She pretty much parroted the leading health researchers of her time on such topics as smoking and there was a very profound temperance movement at that time that was primarly made up of non-SDA's but SDA's will try to convnce you that the temperance movement was nearly totally SDA and then she was totally into hydrotherapy. My dad told me when he was seven years old (this would be in 1916) he got sick. So his mom took him to a practioner who "read his head". This man told my grandmother what to do to cure her little boy but my dad got sicker so my grandparents decided EGW was a health quack, as she had recommended pheronology. My grandparents remained faithful adventists but afer the pheronology incident they refused to see a SDA health professional. Oh, this is so weird.
33ad
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Username: 33ad

Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi
I have to agree with Susan_2. When I read your question, the only thing that came to mind was the S.F. E.Q. It happened in 1906 by the way. And to my knowlege, she supposedly predicted that the Santiarium in Battle Creek and the 'San' in Cape Town, South Africa would burn down as Judgement against bad adminsitration and not keeping the Sabbath, etc. My own opinion on these two events is that someone 'helped' pass the judgements. In other words I think there was arson involved.
No, EGW was no Prophet.
You Quoted:
"I asked her "How do you know that only Sabbath keepers will be persecuted? What makes you think that all those Sabbath-keeping religions which are many besides sda's would just sit back and let a Sunday law pass without even a "wimper". I told her that I think that in the last days Christians will be pursecuted, not just sda. I told her that we need to have the seal of the "Holy Spirit", not the seal of the Sabbath."
You're quite right, the Seal of God is the Holy Spirit. And I do not believe that Sabbath-Keeping is a test of any kind. True Christians will all suffer persecution in the last days regardless if they worship on Saturday or Sunday. There is only one test at the Dread Judgement. Jesus will ask us if we fed Him when He was hungry, visited Him in prison or housed Him when he was homeless. The answer of course that if we do these things to whom we consider the very lowest of society, we do it do Jesus. If we have done these things, then we have a place in God's Kingdom.
Ric_b
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Username: Ric_b

Post Number: 49
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 6:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even Ellen didn't claim that she had predicted the SF earthquake:

"Since the San Francisco earthquake, many rumors have been current regarding statements I have made. Some have reported that while in Los Angeles, I claimed that I had predicted the San Francisco earthquake and fire, and that Los Angeles would be the next city to suffer. This is not true. The morning after the earthquake, I said no more than that 'the earthquakes will come; the floods will come;' and that the Lord's message to us is that we shall 'not establish ourselves in the wicked cities.' {LS 411.2}

I have yet to see a "prediction" documented by EGW before the event that could be verified. The only ones that I can find are failed ones, and predictions that are documented after that event.
Thomas1
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Username: Thomas1

Post Number: 143
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 6:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even a greater question regarding persecution is to ask when the church HASN'T had persecution. Since the beginning, literally tens of millions have been persecuted. In the 20'th century, more Christians were persecuted and killed than in the preceding 19 centuries COMBINED. Now the real kicker. They didn't die for a DAY, they died for HIM. Question, if the only "real" persecution will be because of a "day", does this mean that all of those saints died for nothing? And second, why after all these deaths, will the rules of the game change and instead of dieing for Jesus will they die for what Paul calls a "mere shadow" of the reality that is in Christ? None of them have ever been able to explain that to me.

So glad I'm in HIS grip!

<><
Thomas
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 508
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 7:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

B "claims" she was able to know about people's "secret" sins. She would write one of her "testimonies" about their problems and they would confess they really had been doing xyz, so that is all he needs. When I challenged him about the many she wrote about who denied to their death their stories and Canright's book about how she got the "gossip" from people travelling through town and published it as fact, but he doesn't believe any of that stuff. The fact she got some right proves to him her "abilities".
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 971
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Everytime I read this stuff I think about Miss Cleo. And, she got sued for racketterring.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 758
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My experience with EGWs prophecies and their dependability is that ADventist's primarily refer to her "greatly advanced" health messages (which she borrowed from health reformers of her day), her testimonies to her peers (which she usually learned from others' gossip or which she apparently made up in order to remove people who stood in her way), and to her eschatological prophecies which still look forward to fulfillment. There's no "prophecy" that she had which warned and saved anyone from anything.

BTW, welcome, 33ad. We'd love to hear your story! We're happy to see you here.

Colleen
Helovesme2
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Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 18
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is allegedly a case where she told someone to keep his land (in South Africa). He sold it anyway because he needed the money, and then diamonds were found on it.

I'd be interested to know the facts of the case.

helovesme2
33ad
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Username: 33ad

Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Coleen, helovesme and all,
I posted my story on another thread, I just can't think of the title now. About the Diamonds. The farm was owned by the Wessels family, and they did know about the diamonds. De Beers mine offered them a good price for the land, and they made a handsome profit. This money was used to fund the early SDA church in South Africa (The frist church was in Kimberley and it is still there today as it was proclamed a national monument.) The Wessels had a lot of correspondance with EGW while she was in Australia, and they kind of supported her there too, as I've heard.
Thomas1, Way to go! You hit the nail on the head about persecution. In fact, one of the deciding factors that helped me to make up my mind about my new church home was that that church had suffered THE MOST persecution and martyrdom in the 20th Century. I reasoned that if the Devil hated them that much, they had to be close to God.
Glory to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, now and forever into the ages to come!
Helovesme2
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Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 19
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi 33ad!

That's interesting! The story ran that she'd told Mr. Wessel to keep the land and only after he'd sold it was it found to be such a rich diamond site. That he regretted it later in life, etc. I've seen it used as a children's story to show how God talked through her.

helovesme2
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 616
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome 33ad. I would like to know where your story is so I can read it.
I have learned so much about the SDA church and EGW since I decided not to rejoin that church. The diamond story is interesting. If EGW had known(been inspired by God) she would have told the man not to sell the property.
I keep praying for all our SDA friends and family.
Jesus is all we need.
Diana
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 974
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Too bad they didn't harvest the diamonds and give all the SDA ladies some pretty earrings.
Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 180
Registered: 4-2000
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan,

My wife and I have purposely driven by the College View SDA Church (only a few blocks from our home) to see the homely SDA farm women from western Nebraska at campmeeting time. They are quite an amusing spectacle. They even look more Amish than the more educated SDA women that typically wear neck scarves to compensate for their lack of jewelry and makeup. Adventist women have sometimes been known as the "scarf ladies." (smile)

Anyway, I wholeheartedly agree with you that it is "too bad they didn't harvest the diamonds and give all the SDA ladies some pretty earrings." The old adage, "If the barn needs painting, paint it!" may well apply here as well.

Dennis J. Fischer
33ad
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Username: 33ad

Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Flyinglady, my story is in the "Great Controversy" thread. Yes Susan_2, it would have been real neat to give all the SDA's diamond earrings.lol. I see most of us here in the forum have had our eyes opened to the hypocrisy of EGW and the error of Sabbath Keeping, unclean meat, IJ, etc. But we should also go through the "27 Funementals" and examine each one to see how much EGW is in there so that we can point out error and show the truth to our friends and family that are still SDA. I'm getting a lot of flak from my one sister married to the Pastor. (By the way, he's just there for the job!I don't know if he's baptised anyone for 3 years. Loves his PC and other electronic toys too much.{Now I'm being judgemental, I'd better stop}Just hope that the Holy Spirit will open their eyes.They're praying for me, and I'm praying for them.lol. The truth always wins, but I just hope they don't harden their hearts.)To sum up this thread, no, I can't think of one prophesy EGW honestly made that came true.
Flying lady, Jesus IS all we need for salvation, but he created us because He needed us too, just like we need each other. That's why he commanded us to love one another as He loves us.
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 980
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 9:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis, When you were in Nebraska did you attend any of the Seventh Day Baptist churches? The SDB's have a good amount of churches in that state. About anything coming true-back on Sept. 11, 2001 the SDA's started saying the attacks were prophised by EGW. The talking heads of the SDA organization right away issued a statement saying that was not so, she never mentioned the terrorist attacks. It just seems like her devotees want so much to have a real event come true that she prophised. Wow! It's sure too bad. I mean it's too bad those people don't open themselves up to see what is really going on with who they are putting their trust in, who they have faith in.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 764
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What amazes me is the fact that someone wrote that falsified diamond way as a story to convince children of God's leading of Ellen! There's no doubt that even though Adventist children don't get as much pure EGW in school as they used to, they are still indoctrinated at very young ages to honor and respect her even though they haven't a clue about her, so to speak. Talk about the spirit of deception still being alive and well in the church!

Dennis, your wife's and your jaunts to see the mid-western farm ladies at camp meeting makes me smile. I love the barn-painting analogy. (I have to say, though, that I learned some really awesome ways to tie and use scarves! Last spring just before I left Arrowhead Christian Academy where I was teaching, one of my colleague friends came to my classroom bearing a really beautiful scarf as a gift because, she said, she knew I liked them. Quite funny to me--haystacks (the meal) and scarves are two of my favorite legacies from Adventism... interesting commentary on a church, huh?)

Praise God for redeeming the past!
Colleen
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 516
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is "haystacks" a term familiar to others outside of Adventism? i had never heard them called that until B.
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 769
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've never met a non-SDA who called them "haystacks". But I, obviously, am limited in my knowledge of this detail! I have met non-SDAs who, when told they were about to eat "haystacks", looked at the food and said, "Oh yeah, taco salds."

And I suppose that once again, what I had believed to be unique really isn't--merely the name is unique. Seems to be a pattern here, doesn't there? The words don't reveal the true identity...
Helovesme2
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Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 21
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-) Hmm. The way I learned it was that Taco Salad is mixed or stirred. Haystacks is layered. Mot much of a difference though!

helovesme2

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