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Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 31
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a web page that I put together documenting Ellen G. White's Gnostic heresy: Click here.

I've seen someone even on this forum say something like "at least EGW passed the test of 1 John 4 about Jesus Christ coming in the flesh."

Well, of course, she would fail that test due to her having a false Christ (sinful nature, etc.), false gospel, etc.

But I have discovered that she actually does deny that He came in the flesh, and that she actually teaches the exact same thing that John warns about (Gnostic heresy)! So according to 1 John 4:1-3 and 2 John 1:7, EGW is not only a false prophet, but is also a deceiver and an antichrist!

Check out the link and tell me what you think.

Jeremy
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1008
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, Jeremy! That is an awsome webpage. You managed to find the statements by EGW that was taught to me as a kid but I never actually had the EGW quotes. Do I have your permission to make a few copies of that to share? I try to tell people that is what EGW taught, that the SDA has in its statement of beliefs (the 27 fundamentals) and its baptismal vows that EGW is the last day messenger so she is an anit-Christ but I never had the quotes with me to back up my belief. Can I print a copy of it? Did it take you a lot of time to research that out and compile it?
33ad
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Username: 33ad

Post Number: 46
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 4:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A quote from your site as to what the SDA General Conference said.
"Christ had two natures, the nature of a man and the nature of God. In him divinity and humanity were combined.... He exhibited a perfect humanity, combined with deity; and by preserving each nature distinct, he has given to the world a representation of the character of God and the character of a perfect man. He shows us what God is, and what man may become--godlike in character." (The General Conference Bulletin, 10-01-1899, paragraph 20.)
Jeremy, I must refer you back to Chris' post on the "What God Has Revealed About Himself" thread.
Quote:The council of Chalcedonia agreed upon the doctrine of Christ's two natures to counteract three heresies that were plaguing the church. The Apollinarianism heresy claimed that Christ had a human body, but not a human mind or spirit. The mind and spirit of Christ were from the divine nature of the Son of God. This seems a bit similar to the earlier Gnostic view in my mind, but I would have to research it a bit further to see if there is any kind of a direct connection. The second heresy was Nestorianism which taught that there were two separate persons in Christ, a human person and a divine person, a teaching that is distinct from the biblical view that sees Jesus as one person. The third heresy was monphysitism (Eutychianism) which claimed that Christ had one nature only. This heresy denied that the human nature and the divine nature in Christ remained fully human and fully divine. This heresy taught that the human nature was absorbed into or mixed with the divine nature. None of these views were adequate or fit the biblical data. The Chalcedonia definition is the only one that is accepted as orthodox within the conservative Christian world because it refutes all these heresies and takes into account the biblical data that portrays both Christ's deity and His humanness."

To state anything other than Jesus Christ had two natures, being both God and man in one 'Hypostasis'(Body)is Heresy, and is either Apollinarianism, Nestorianism or monphysitism.(You can do a Google if you don't understand any of these terms)
The universal church had decided that at Chalcedon in 451.

I quote directly from the Prolegomena (Prologue) to the council:"(Act 5): "Pursuantly therefore to the divine Fathers we all consonantly join voices in teaching outright that we confess one and the same Son or Lord Jesus Christ, perfect the same in divinity, and perfect the same in humanity. Truly a God, and truly a human being the same (composed) of a soul and body and one who is at the same time of like essence with the Father as respecting divinity, and of like essence the same with us as respecting humanity, in all respects like us, apart from sinfulness. Though begotten before the ages out of the Father as respects divinity, yet in latter days born out of Mary the Virgin(His Humanity) and Theotoks{Meaning 'Mother of God'} (His Divinity), as respects humanity, the same for us and for our salvation. One and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten (composed) of two natures unconfusably, inconvertibly, indivisibly, inseparably identifiable, there being nowhere anything removed or annulled in the difference of the natures on account of the union, but rather on the contrary the peculiarity of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one person and one substance. Not being divided or parted into two persons, but (forming) on the contrary one and the same Son and only-begotten God Logos, Lord Jesus Christ, precisely as the Prophets formerly had prophesied concerning him and as he himself, the Lord Jesus Christ, did explicitly teach us, and the Symbol (i.e., Creed) of the Fathers has imparted the matter to us."

The universal church then anathematized (Cursed)anyone and any Bishop who taught anything different.
You've gone to a lot of trouble to pull out the EGW quotes that are Gnostic, Arian, Apollinarian and Nestorian. But please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The correct basic Christian doctrines were in place by the 8th century. Please go back and re-examine Christianity's roots. A lot got lost in the middle ages and the eventual Protestant Reformation.
God bless
Loren
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 799
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy, your quotes are very interesting. You have compiled a list that illustrates how EGW talked out of both sides of her mouth: Jesus is an angel, Jesus just appeared to be a man; Jesus was not Almighty God--it seems she could not have known Him personally to have written such heretical, inconsistent descriptions of Him.

I am cautious about basing my doctrinal beliefs on any human statement, though, regardless of how orthodox it is. While I love the clear, descriptive language of many of the creeds (including the Nicean and the Westminster creed), I would not confirm my personal beliefs by them. Just as did the church fathers of the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th centuries, I can also find the Biblical support for the orthodox understandings that comprise true Christian beliefs.

We do owe the church fathers a huge debt of gratitude for studying the essential doctrinal issues and for composing clear statements of orthodox belief, thus exposing and condemning heresy. They have provided a rich tradition of orthodoxy that has been confirmed in Christian practice and belief through the centuries following the establishment of the church. They have provided references and examples that we can use to confirm the handing down of truth through the generations.

At the same time, we must base our faith and practice on the words of Scripture alone. As rich and helpful as the church statements may be, they cannot be our ground of truth. Scripture alone is strong enough to support us.

There have been centuries of human writing that has both clarified and muddled Biblical truth. It is only in our personal dependence upon Scripture that we have the discernment to distinguish between truth and heresy. Because of our grounding in Scripture, we can see the truth in the Chalcedonian creed above and the outright blasphemy in Ellen's statements.

I'm again reminded of the song Ancient Words:

...Ancient words, ever true
Changing me, and changing you
Let us come with open hearts
O Let the ancient words impart

I'm so thankful to be released from the words of a 19th century false prophet and planted only on the ancient words of the Bible alone!

Colleen
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 38
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

33ad,

If Ellen G. White is saying in a few of those quotes that Jesus was more divine than I'm giving her credit for, then she is just saying that we are more divine also, because she says that divinity and humanity are to be combined in us just like they were in Jesus.

Jeremy
33ad
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Username: 33ad

Post Number: 48
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy,
What happens when I accept Jesus? I allow myself to be controlled by the Holy Spirit. Is that not divinity combining with my humanity to make me able to live a Christ centerd life? Jesus Grace covers my unrigheousness, but it is the Power of the Spirit within me that helps me acheive God's will. Phil 2:13 "For it is God who works in you to will and act according to his good purpose." (NIV)
NB: I am not standing up for EGW. (She might just have 'borrowed' some truth sometimes. Mostly I know that she copied error.)
Colleen, How long did the early church survive without the NT? Quite a while actually. What we know of Jesus life was handed down by word of mouth to the early church. And by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, men were moved to write and record these for our benefit. And yet, we only have a small portion saved for us. John 21:25 "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down,I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."
Quote: "Just as did the church fathers of the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th centuries, I can also find the Biblical support for the orthodox understandings that comprise true Christian beliefs." Quite right! But bear in mind that the Church fathers were guided by two things. The Holy Spirit and Holy Tradition. I'm not speaking of the traditions of men that Jesus was condemning the pharasees with. This is what Paul was speaking of in 2 Thess 2:15 "So then, brethern, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions and instructions which you were taught by us, whether by our word of mouth or by letter" (Amplified) The early church had a rich store of this "word of mouth", and was later transcribed by the early fathers from the 2nd century on. I am quite aware of the many false "gospels" and "epistles" that did the rounds of the church in the early centuries. But by the grace of God and the Guidance of the Holy Spirit, the wheat was separated from the chaff. We have enough confidence in the early fathers to have put the bible canon together correctly. Why don't we have the same confidence that they were able to interpret it correctly.
The decisions of the 7 Councils were made by the entire church, represented by delegates of Clergy and laiety of the whole of christiandom. And by the 7th century, there was, according to the concensus of the whole church, no more "new light". I'll have to sart a new thread on this. All I am saying here is what I said in a previous post, we must go back to our roots.I'm not saying we must drop what we belive in. Going back will only reinforce our belief. Stay in the church where you feel you are serving God the best, but test everything. That's after all why we're all on this forum. We tested SDAism and found it to be in error. So we left. The same holds true of any church we may join in for communion and prayer. The Holy Spirit, the Bible and the Holy Tradition left for us by the fathers will keep us on the road to heaven.
God bless
Loren
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 39
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Loren,

I think the quotes which I give pretty much prove that EGW is saying that divinity and humanity are to be combined in us in the same way that they were in Jesus. In other words, she is saying that we are to be just as divine as Jesus!

Jeremy
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 42
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan,

Sorry I forgot to answer your post! Yes, you can make as many copies of it as you want.

We have an official White Estate cd-rom of all of EGW's published writings (at least through nineteen ninety-something I guess--they keep publishing more books of hers! ;-)), so that makes it a little easier to find quotes, etc. The White Estate web site also has a search engine, but it's not quite as easy as using the cd-rom.

Jeremy
33ad
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Username: 33ad

Post Number: 50
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jeremy,
I accept your point, and of course we are NOT divine, and can not be in any sense without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. We were not created divine, and only the Creator can claim Divinity, along with the Holy Trinity. I understand your point.
Loren

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