| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2004 |
I don't know if you all are familiar with oneplace.com, but they host a large selection of Christian radio broadcasts that you can listen to on their web site. Unfortunately, they host Doug Batchelor's program "Bible Answers Live" and "Doorways" with Bill Tucker of The Quiet Hour. I sent Oneplace.com an email earlier this week, explaining (partially, at least) why they should not be hosting these Adventist programs. I have not heard back from them yet. But I was thinking that if more of us emailed them telling them how unorthodox/cultic these programs/Adventism are, the deception, the trying to get people pulled into Adventism, etc. they might listen to us. There was one absolutely horrible clip that I heard from Doug Botchelor's (as Susan says--and it's absolutely accurate ;-)) program. It was titled "Is it possible to lose one's salvation?" He was teaching a false gospel, giving the caller basically no assurance, preaching salvation by works. You can listen to it here if you want. Also, I just saw today's clip, and listened to it. It's called "Elaborate on Galatians 4:9-10 and how it related to Sabbath observance." It was about the weakest argument he could have possibly given. Incredible. Anyway, if any of you want to contact oneplace.com, you can do so by clicking here. Jeremy | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 53 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hi Jeremy. I listened to the Link you gave us in regards to Galations 4:9-10. Yes, the speaker did present a weak argument to those of us who know better. But to someone who is confused and just beginning to learn about "sda-ism" he could be convincing. SDA's don't seem to understand that when God gave the 10 commandments, there WERE "ceremonial" statements and aspects attached to it for example, "I am the Lord thy God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt". Surely this has nothing to do with most of us today because we were not the ones brought out of Egypt. So is this a statement of God's dynamic and should it be taken literaly? Of course not. Its obvious that he was only addressing the Jewish people. But according to the sda's, EVERYTHING about the 10 commandments should be taken literaly word for word, well why not this statement. Also, if observing the 7th day were sooooo important, why isn't its importants even vaguely mentioned in the New Testement??? Every other sin and the consequences of these sins are mentioned, except the consequence of "breaking the Sabbath". Believe me, if it was that important, it would be mentioned as such. Also, in the N.T. people have come up to Jesus and the other apostles specifically asking what they have to do to be saved. Jesus and the apostles could have taken this perfect opportunity to tell them that the most important thing was to "keep the Sabbath Day Holy". Okay, then why didn't Jesus or anybody else in the N.T. say this? I have a friend that is still sda, and she mentions that the Sabbath is not emphasized in the New Testement because keeping the Sabbath "goes without saying". Well, maybe to the Jews. But what about all the Greeks and Romans (Gentiles)that were converted?? It wouldn't "go without saying" to them. And anyway, in using that argument, wouldn't murder, adultery, thievery, idol worship, lying, dishonering your parents, etc., which ARE mentioned and also their consequences mentioned in the N.T., "go without saying" also? It just doesn't make any sense. Also, Galations 4:9-10 mentiones the doing away with 3 types of "sabbaths". The first one mentioned refers to the yearly "sabbath", the second one mentioned refers to the monthly "sabbath", and the third "sabbath" mentioned refers to the weekly "sabbath". This would have to make sense because Jewish tradition adhere to these 3 "sabbaths", and these are the sabbaths that are particuarly mentioned in Galations. SDA's also argue that Jesus went to church on the Sabbath. But, Jesus also celebrated passover, Yom Kippor, etc. So if they wanted to do everything that Jesus did when he was on this earth, sda's then should celebrate ALL the Jewish "sabbaths" and traditions like Jesus did. Also, the Bible says that Jesus spent the sabbath day going about healing and doing good. Infact, Jesus and his disciples were critized by the Priests and church leaders for NOT keeping the "sabbath" properly. And, what sda's fail to mention is that Christians have been worshiping on Sunday since the days of the Apostle Paul. The day of Worship WAS NOT CHANGED BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Some sda's say that the Catholic church itself admits that it changed the day of worship, and they will show you evidence of this from the Catholic church. But since when do they believe what the Catholic Church says. They claim that the Catholic Church lies and distorts that truth, but yet they believe the Catholic Church on THIS issue. Again, doesnt make sense. They also will tell you that in one of her so-called "visions" EGW was taken to heaven and shown the 10 commandments and the 4th commandment had a halo around it which implies that this was the most important commandment. To me, this is ludicrous because why would "Remember the Sabbath Day" (a Day) be more important than "thou shalt not MURDER" (taking a life)! Oh, and to me most importantly, Romans 14 says that Christians should not critisize other Christians for what they eat, or for THE DAY THEY DECIDE TO KEEP AS HOLY. So to me this means that If I want to I can keep either Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, or Saturday Holy. This is strictly between me and God and no other Christians business  --Valerie | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 689 Registered: 7-2000 |
Good points, Valerie... It sure is nice to live in the SIMPLICITY of letting the "Lord of the Sabbath" keep me in HIS REST every day! As I've said before, I never could figure out what really constituted "holy" behavior or not... If something was wrong to do on one day, wouldn't it be wrong to do any day? The line between "sacred" and "secular" is just not there for me; all my life is holy and sacred in JESUS' care! grace always, cindy | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 690 Registered: 7-2000 |
Good points, Valerie... It sure is nice to live in the SIMPLICITY of letting the "Lord of the Sabbath" keep me in HIS REST every day! As I've said before, I never could figure out what really constituted "holy" behavior or not... If something was wrong to do on one day, wouldn't it be wrong to do any day? The line between "sacred" and "secular" is just not there for me; all my life is holy and sacred in JESUS' care! grace always, cindy | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 691 Registered: 7-2000 |
Ooops! Don't know how I posted twice! | ||
| Nancy Registered user Username: Nancy Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2004 |
I was talking w/ my mother this evening and she brought up the fact that she heard some really good preaching today on TBN or whatever it is, concerning the Catholic church and the same old issue about we being forced to worship on Sunday. That Jerry Falwell has met w/ the Pope recently and are attempting to bring everyone together as one. You've heard it---I just stood there thinking, "I don't want to hear this," and why are you telling me!!!!! I was just real quiet so she knew to stop. She changed the subject or I did---fast!!!! It's the same old thing from day one w/ them. Why is this so important to them instead of trying to direct those that are searching to the pure and simple gospel of Jesus Christ----Why??? I'm so frustrated. It is just crazy and it drives me crazy. I know she is just beside herself thinking that if she doesn't relate this to her kids, they are being deceived and are going to be lost. I know that's what she's thinking. She's hoping that if she mentions this that maybe we'll get kind of scared and come back. It always has something to do w/ fear tactics. My husband is suppose to go over to her house tomorrow and fix a light fixture and he said that if she brings it up, he is going to get stern w/ her. It's been a long while since we've discussed anything w/ her b/c we end up no where. She just doesn't get it. Why can't they push EGW aside and read the bible only. Would someone please tell me their thoughts on this stuff concerning the forced Sunday worship that is suppose to come about and where this originated from? How & where is this biblical to them? And oh, she said it will for sure be inforced if ole Kerry gets the Presidency, him being Catholic and all. They said the same thing when JFK was president to. They got all in an uproar about that and well, we weren't drug to prison then or at least I wasn't! Ha! I just don't get it. Have they run out of things to preach on?----it's just utter confusion. I'm so mad right now and I know that's just what the evil one wants. Do any of you get this from your family? Of course, it's not only this subject but today was on that business. She listens to that stuff all day long on Saturdays. She thinks Doug Batchelor is wonderful. I mean, Why wouldn't she be brainwashed!!! About the time I think things are OK---I get this!!!! I need some feedback on this. Thanks for listening to my ranting!!! | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 52 Registered: 7-2004 |
There are times when I swear I won't be able to take one more holiday/family dinner listening to all of the wonderful benefits of vegetarianism, or more properly veganism. And the great "new" findings about what a perfect diet it is. And how there wouldn't be anymore obesity or heart disease or attention deficit disorder or .... There are times when I think that spreading the message of diet is more important to some people that spreading the Good News of Christ. Other than hearing about a cooking school or some such thing, I hear very little about the activities of the church. And even less about God. And once everyone finishes overeating at Sabbath dinner, the rest of the afternoon is spent sleeping. Can someone convince me why this is "holy"! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 998 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ric, At your holiday family get-togethers do you boogie down to Del Deker and the Kings Harolds? When those musics hit the truntable I hit the doorway. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2004 |
Nancy, Regarding the Sunday Law nonsense; if you want more info about it and where it originated from, you can read what Dirk Anderson has written. It's called "NATIONAL SUNDAY LAW Fact or Fiction?" Here's the link to it: http://www.ellenwhite.org/egw22.htm "Why is this so important to them instead of trying to direct those that are searching to the pure and simple gospel of Jesus Christ----Why???" Simply put, it's because they don't know the pure and simple gospel of Jesus Christ.  Remember, they're a cult, so it's their "job" to deceive people and distract people from JESUS and his wonderful Gospel of Grace! I understand the frustration, though. It can be really hard at times. God bless, Jeremy | ||
| Nancy Registered user Username: Nancy Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2004 |
Thanks Jeremy, I know where this originates but it aggitates me to the core. It's just a distraction and that's what the evil one wants. With Adventist, it's always gloom and doom, fretting and isolation is their comfort, away from we so called "Christians" that have fallen along the wayside!!!! And your right about the SDA's deceiving people and not knowing the Gospel of Grace. I remember never hearing much about Grace except in the way they wanted to present it, no wonder I didn't understand it. Talk about a veil over their eyes-- their veil goes all the way to the floor. Well I'm on my way to church--"Grace" church---before I dreaded going to church now I can't wait. Um--imagine that!!!! | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2004 |
Nancy, that is how I grew up! I would wake up in the night terrified by thoughts of going to hell. My mother quoted EGW saying if we had one sin that we didn't confess we would not be able to go through the time of trouble and get discouraged and join the other side, or something like that. It was terrifying. I would obsess whether I had really told a lie or if it was a "white lie". I was petrified by the talk of the "time of trouble". I can't believe SDA's ignore Jesus saying many times that He will be with us EVEN until the end of the earth, or that He will never leave us. But the SDA theory is that we will have to do without the Holy Spirit and rely on ourselves during the time of trouble. It is the most horrific thing anyone could ever imagine! I used to envy other churches who felt safe and assured being saved and looking forward to Jesus' return. The SDA's dread it, unless they think they are perfect! | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 160 Registered: 7-2004 |
It was never stressed to me that I could live with the Holy Spirit in my everyday life..that meant as hard as I tried, I could never be perfect like Jesus (my "human" example) in the daily trials so how could I ever expect to survive "the time of trouble." In my 20's, I gave up on being Adventist (which in my mind meant I gave up on God - because the two were one in the same). I think the biggest lie I swollowed was that Jesus was part human part Deity - not God. What a difference the truth of Jesus' supremacy as the Almighty, All-Knowing, Creator, Lord of Lords, King of Kings makes in my life. The unfathomable beauty and truth of God's Grace is much clearer with the knowledge that I can never even begin to live my life as Jesus did. Praise Him, though, for His Holy Spirit who indwells in my life and heart! IF only these truths would become real for those we have left behind in Adventism...only through Jesus... | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1000 Registered: 11-2002 |
O.K., I'll jump in on this converstion. In Pslams we read we are too live with a prayful heart at all times. We then can read where Jesus says, "Go and know your sins have been forgiven". We also read where Paul (?) laments wheather he'd rather be dead and with his Lord or if he'd rather be alive and doing the Lord's calling here on earth. Obiviouselly, he must have had the assurance of his eternal salvation to even toy with those sorts of thoughts. Remember God forgives sinners, not sins. I think former SDA's generally have a tough time with getting this really into their way of thinking. This is because from childhood we have been taught as was mentioned about that, if we die with even one unconfessed sin then we are to be eternally lost. I can't say this enough, GOD FORGIVES SINNERS, not sins. It is us, His people who are forgiven, not some rinky-dink sin that we can't even remember. If that was so then we'd all be lost to doom and gloom before we were even out of diapers. That's why in the Our Father and in the Creeds that we recite we ask forgiveness for even the unknown wrongs we have done. We are at the same time saints and sinners. As Chrstians we are saints before God, our sins have been washed from us and we are eternally His. At the same time we are human and as such we continusely fall short. But, we do not fall short of His grace and mercy. As a kid growing up I was taught a warped understanding of grace. I was taught it is God's grace that leads people to become Seventh-day Adventist and then it if God's grace that keeps the person Seventh-day Adventist and in doing so the person will evenually reach perfection and will truly be able to claim to be one of God's chosen. It is really a sick and perverted teaching on a wonderful gift given to us by our Heavenly Father. At the Christian bookstore down the street they have a bumper sticker for sale that says, "Be An Organ Doner-Give Your Heart To Jesus". Maybe I'll get that one for my car. | ||
| Nancy Registered user Username: Nancy Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2004 |
Thanks Bb for your response and Dd as well. It just blows my mind especially after reading today again of God's immeasurable love he has for each and every one of us and like you said Bb, "He vowed never to leave us or forsake us." Does that sound like a God that will be hunting down people in the end and allowing them to be killed and oh, decides to w/draw his spirit so we can go it alone. That sounds like a Stephen King movie!!! In Adventism there is no hope, nothing but running and trying to keep on track every day things that don't amount to a hill of beans, that is, your salvation. It is no wonder my mother is a worrier. When I was in "the church" I rebelled secretly b/c I knew I couldn't live up to all that they required of me. I hated to see the end of the week come b/c I had to go into my pretend state of mind and put on this fake face like every thing was OK. I did as they did! Long faces and no happiness to speak of. I saw no relief or anyone pulling me off to the side telling me that it's OK---that the real issue is whether or not we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and if so, then he's done it all for us---his grace is so sufficient for every one of us. How in the world can anyone think they'll be perfect before God comes is a mystery to me. There is or noone perfect except our Lord and we were made perfect when we came to a knowledge of him and gave our life to him, through that we stand justified. Yes, Bb upon hearing about the end of times---I would wonder then if I would be able to make it through especially w/out the Holy Spirit and where in the world do we flee to beings there are no mountains in our area-Ha!!!!! I could visualize me and my tired old mother(whom is 89) fleeing for our lives and murdered like an animal. I mean does this make any sense at all??? As they say, "What are they thinking?" Why can't they put down all the propaganda they read (EGW,etc) 24/7 and start from the beginning of the bible and go from there. It's his word not hers.(EGW) To me, they're classified right up there w/ the JW's and LDS's---my mother would croak if she knew I even thought on that line but they don't see it as that. They sure can agree on them being classified as a cult but not them. It's like, "Hello, is anyone home in your thought process"!!!!!!!! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 633 Registered: 3-2004 |
Sinners are forgiven and I like what is said about what is done with our sins. As far as the east is from the west, that is how far are sins are put away from us. Or they put into the depths of the sea. There are many places where the bottom of the sea cannot be found it is so deep. So we are forgiven and God has put them where they cannot be found. He will not remind us of them. When we are reminded of them, it is Satan doing that and not God. I have not thought of SDA doctrine for a long time, especially about the end times. God has been good and took it from my memory along with the IJ, the RCC church persecuting SDAs. He is so GOOD and AWESOME. I am so free because of Jesus. Last night after church services, a friend from church came over. She and I do volunteer work at the church. We are on the hospitality committee and greet people as they come into the church, help them find their way around if needed. She is in her early thirties and we were talking about internet dating. I ended up showing her my favorite web sites, this is one of them, and the others I read from as I left adventism. She knew nothing about SDAs. I want to tell everyone about the deceit, cultish dotrine of the SDAs and I know I have to be careful and pray about what I say. After looking at some of the things about SDA, my young friend came to her own conclusion by saying that is like a cult. She also said, if I ever meet a good looking sda man, I will turn and run as fast as I can. Then she asked, what if he is a former? My reply was, to find out where he is in his Christian walk and if Jesus is all he needs and how long he had been walking with Jesus. I got off topic. Sorry about that, but I just had to tell you about lst night. Diana | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 54 Registered: 7-2004 |
I think I was also reading somewhere regarding EGW and the "Sunday Law" was that the United States Congress of 1889 was considering passing a national voluntary "Sunday Law". EGW and her followers got hysterical and claimed that this "Sunday Law" would indeed pass, the sda church will be persecuted, and Christ would come exactly 7 years later. However, the 1889 congressional "Sunday Law" Bill went down in defeat, and EGW and her followers had to think of something to "save face", so they cooked up this idea of a so called future "Sunday Law" that was supposed to pass. You know how it is, every time there is a "failed vision" there is some kind of back up plan thats is supposed to take place in the future. | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 37 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes, Nancy I too "gave up" when I realized I couldn't be perfect. I spent my preteen years agonizing over little "sins" that I had committed, so in my mid-teens and up to 30's I rebelled and did pretty much whatever I wanted. I figured that I couldn't be perfect, so I might as well commit as many sins as I could so that I per chance might forget some of them, and God would give me grace. What a distortion!!!!!!! Finally in my 30's, I started trying to figure it out, this grace thing. I read authors other than SDA's and started to understand. It has been a slow battle to let go, but God led me right into the "truth" of reading HIS word, and attending a Bible preaching church, and has showed me the errors of EGW. I don't believe you can actually have the fruits of the spirit if you are entrenched in adventism. (Though I do believe there are some of them who really love Jesus) but I feel like I was robbed of love, joy, peace, etc. because of worrying about MYSELF and would I get to heaven or not? My mother is also in her 80's and is entrenched in SDAism. I do not have the heart to tell her how I feel as she would think I was "lost". We need to pray that they can find peace and the love of Jesus. It's funny how she cannot share with others about her relationship with Jesus, but can quote EGW's writings. I don't want to be like that. I know she doesn't know any better, so I will just continue to pray. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1004 Registered: 11-2002 |
Sure a lot of us on here have mothers in their 80's. And, I try to ballance the desire to honor my parent as Bibically we are to do just that, with just how much to say or not to say about anything having to do with any sort of religious topic and this includes churches, Bible topics, religious rituals, everything and anything. The result is that I say nothing unless I am asked a point blank in-my-face question by someone. Sometimes I give an answer and sometimes I avoid giving an answer. It depends on who the conversation is with. If it is my mom I say very lttle because she's my mom and that is all there is to it. If it's my oldest son I try to say very little because he is he father of my grandchildren and he is a very arragent, know-it-all about everything, every subject one can even start a conversation about person. If he bothers to get in the conversation then he is sure he is totally correct on everything being discussed and as I said he is the father of my grandchildren and I don't want to loose my privaldge of being with the children. His little girl attends a SDA school and everything else SDA he can get her into. The ony thing I can figure out is that when he married he got the job of being in charge of the families religious training and his wife gets to take charge of the shopping. If it's a cousin or a SDA from the community then I really don't give a rip what they think of me so if they ask me about not being SDA I tell them. With my younger three children we actally get out our Bibles and learn and study together. For you out there with younger or teenage children I will share something I have done for years now with my kids. I keep a Bible in the car and when we are traveling I have one of the kids read a passage and then we discuss it. We all really seem to enjoy this time together. My one child will be 20 next week and he still likes doing this with me while we travel. SDA's are really loony about the church thing. Most would rather have a loved one attend no church at all and have no Christian fellowship at all then to have their loved one involved with the dreaded Sunday-keepers. The SDA's I know are very fearful of Sunday-keepers. And, most regular Christians are totally unaware of how fearful th SDA's are of them. | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 125 Registered: 2-2003 |
Just on a postive note, I have a great Mum who is 78, though she is my step-mum really. She travels about all over the place, has loads of friends, she loves the Lord, she witnesses to people all the time, and always has some testimony about what God is doing in her life, about how great He is, how he blesses her, helps her with everything. She certainly has a lot of joy in the Lord, and is an inspiration. The other point is, she is not and has never been SDA... Adrian | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 787 Registered: 12-2003 |
Adrian--what a wonderful gift God gave you in your step-mother! Your post made me laugh--your last comment, "the other point is, she is not and has never been SDA..." just said it all! As a step-mom, I especially appreciated your comments about your mom. Sometimes God does astonishing miracles by placing step-parents and kids together and then, through His grace lavished onto those relationships, healing many wounds carried by all parties. What initially looks "second-best" or even negative can, with God's blessings and our obedience, become a source of great growth and strength and wholeness. God is sovereign, and He is awesome--and I am beyond-words-grateful. Colleen |
