| Author | Message | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 166 Registered: 9-2002 |
Chris I don't know if the bible teachs that Jesus is god. The Tenak teachs that there is only one G-d and that is the G-d of Abraham,Isacc and Jacob. All I know is that you are saying that. 1)The Father is god 2)The Son is god 3)The Holy Spirit is god But the Tenak your Old Testament says there is ONE G-d and there is no other and there is NO salvation in any other. I see G-d as one. speakeasy | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 446 Registered: 7-2003 |
Speakeasy, God is ONE, you are right. There is no other. We *really* can move on. We agree that there is only one God, YHWH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But you haven't answered my question. In fact, you haven't made any effort to interact with the scripture I have posted at all. I have posted scripture that shows: 1. The Bible has many explicit statements that come right out and say Jesus is God. 2. The Bible teaches that Jesus is YHWH. 3. The Bible teaches that Jesus has the titles of God. 4. The Bible teaches that Jesus receives the honors due to God alone. 5. The Bible teaches that Jesus does all the works of God. 6. The Bible teaches that Jesus has all the incommunicable attributes of God. 7. The Bible teaches that Jesus is the Son of God in the sense that He has the very nature of God and is equal to God. If you don't agree with this than please analyse the scripture I have posted and tell me why you reject the divinity of Christ, but please base your analysis on the pertinent scriptures I've posted. Let's start with an easy one. What is the main teaching of this scripture? - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1 (NASB) Speakeasy, I sincerely appeal to you as I have before. Do not reject the God revealed in scriptue, do not reject the real Jesus of scripture. Don't do it Speakeasy. Please. Chris | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1016 Registered: 11-2002 |
I think like this-I am one person. I am souverign over my home. I am the big kahuna of my home. I am in charge. At the same time I am the creater and savoiur of my household. I don't mean the word "saviour" in a Bibical way. I mean that I create the meals we eat, I create the home decorting. Etc. I am my families saviour and again let me emphasise I do not mean this in a Bibical sense as only Jesus is our Saviour in that way but what I mean is that it is up to me often to "save the day", if you know what I mean. We run out of milk, I'm the one that saves breakfast the next morning by going to the store at 11 p.m and getting the milk, therefore preparing for my familys need to have a decent breakfast the next day. I save the day by making sure the bills are paid on time so our electrisity, water or other esential services aren't cut off. I also am my familes sustainer. I listen to my children's problems. I help them get through their troubles. I give them a loving shoulder to lean on and cry on. I laugh with them. I weep with them. I help them and be with them in good times, bad times and all in-between times. I am still only one person. Me. Susan. I am not three Susan's. I am one Susan. I have three very seperate and distinct roles. Does this help? I know it's just an analogy but it is what works for me. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 447 Registered: 7-2003 |
Susan, what you have outlined above is not correct in respect to the one Being that is God. That would be a very inadequate analogy for God and one that will bring more confusion than clarity. The error you are making is that you have observed, correctly, that a human being is always one person, one being and one person. That is NOT what the Bible teaches about God. Our God is much bigger than that. He is ONE single living Being, of one essence, but he always exists as three persons. Please see my postings on truth #2 "The Father, Son, and Spirit are personally distinct." These are not "roles" or "modes", they are "persons" a term that describes real, eternal, personal relationships within the ONE God. These relationships of love and communication between the Father, Son, and Spirit are essential to the Being that is the ONE and ONLY true God, YHWH. After you have reread these postings and examined the related scripture, please let me know if you agree that the Father, Son, and Spirit are three persons (not three seperate "Beings", but three "persons"). Susan, please hang on. I am planning a more thorough explanation of the terms "Being" and "Person" as they apply to the ONE true God. But first we need to see if the Bible really teaches these truths or not. This is not about what I think or say. It's about what the Bible teaches. Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 448 Registered: 7-2003 |
Groups such as Jehovahís Witnesses claim that the Holy Spirit is only some impersonal force, not a person. This erroneous idea is not supported by the Bible. Today we will examine the biblical teaching that THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON. HE HAS A NAME: 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Matt 28:19 (NASB) HE IS THE ìHELPERî: He is referred to as ìanother Helperî (Jesus being the first)- 16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; John 14:16 (NASB) He is sent in Jesusí name to preach- 26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. John 14:26 (NASB) He will arrive and then bear witness- 26 "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, John 15:26 (NASB) He is sent by Christ to convict of sin. He will speak not on his own but on behalf of Christ. He will glorify Christ- 7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. 12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot, bear them now. 13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore, I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. John 16:7-15 (NASB) So we have seen that: 1. The Holy Spirit is equated with God. 2. The Holy Spirit is involved in all the works of God. 3. The Holy Spirit is a person (i.e. not some impersonal force). Although we are told somewhat less about the person of the Spirit than the persons of the Father and Son, it is still very difficult to escape the conclusion, based on scripture, that the Holy Spirit is, in fact, God. So this completes our review of texts that teach the following truths: 1. There is only one God, there are no others. 2. The Father, Son, and Spirit are personally distinct. 3. The Father, Son, and Spirit are God. Or to put these truths another way: 1. There is only one BEING that is God, YHWH. There are no other gods besides YHWH. YHWH is ONE single living BEING. 2. The Father, Son, and Spirit are three persons (but NOT three separate beings). 3. The Father, Son, and Spirit are YHWH (they are three persons in ONE single BEING - YHWH). Next time, we will begin pulling this all together. If the Bible teaches all these truths, and it does, are these truths contradictions or are they complementary? To answer that weíll have to answer several other questions like; Whatís the difference between the terms ìBeingî and ìpersonî? Is there a way we can pull all three truths into a single statement? Is it helpful to use ìshorthandî words to describe these truths? Over the next several days, Iíll discuss the answers to all these questions as well as attempt to go back and answer some of the questions that were posed earlier in this thread. I apologize for deferring some of these answers, but I believed it was very important to have the biblical basis for where the answers come from first. Without that, itís just someoneís opinion, but if the Bible teaches these things, then we need to do our best to apprehend them, even if we canít totally comprehend. See you next time. Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 449 Registered: 7-2003 |
In preparation for fulfilling my promise to address detail oriented questions that have been raised during this thread, I have been going over the entire thread jotting down each question. In doing this, I noticed several post that I had overlooked that attempted to present analogies for the Being of God. I should probably have addressed these at the time. I would like to very strongly caution against using limited analogies to describe an infinite being. No matter what analogy you use you will end up teaching something that is contrary to scripture. There are no human or natural world analogies within our finite experience that can describe an infinite God. We can only apprehend the truths He has revealed about Himself. Some of the analogies I see in this thread present a modalistic view of God (a denial of the Biblical truth that the Father, Son, and Spirit are ETERNALLY personally distinct or three persons). Some of the analogies I see in this thread present a tritheistic view (a denial of the biblical truth that there is only ONE Being that is God). Any analogy that violates any of the truths that God has revealed about Himself is not a helpful analogy because it obscures truth rather than clarifies it. I am sorry if my caution on this seems too strong, but I am very very concerned that this thread clearly communicate each of the three truths that God has revealed about Himself. To the extant that these analogies end up warping these truths or flat out denying them, I would like to avoid them within this thread. In love, Chris | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 167 Registered: 9-2002 |
I guess like I said 20 times. I don't understand. I will do like you said just except it even though I have no clue what it is. I have no clue who G-d is now. I don't know who or what it is. But I am glade I am saved. And that is all that matters. speakeasy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 818 Registered: 12-2003 |
Chris, I'm praying for you, that God will refresh you and reveal Himself to you in the way you need right now. I'm praying that you will know what He wants you to entrust into His care and that you will experience true Sabbath rest. I'm praying Ephesians 1:17-18 for you. Colleen | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 168 Registered: 9-2002 |
Chris you are right and I am wrong. I just need to except the teaching and move on. What do I say when people ask me? Or what do I do when I hear sermons and songs about this subject. It is hard to follow any sermon that any pastor teachs because this is so embedded in everything that is taught, sung about and what you read in christian books movies and so on. I can't pray to G-d about this. Because I have prayed to him for 9 years on this subject to show me what I need to know. And He shows me the same verses and texts that he has shown me 9 years ago. I am TRULY Struggling on this and ALL other topics of any nature. I want the same thing as you have and the other people on this forum. You know that you know that you are okay with G-d and you know you are being taught correctly and not being lied to. For me when I left the Jewish lifestyle almost 9 years ago. The walk of a christian has been VERY HARD and very much a struggle. The christian life has been a very hard one to do. I know this sounds strange and wierd. But never the less this has been my view about in the 9 years of trying to find out all I can about the Christian walk. It is VERY hard and it is always a struggle. Maybe not for all of you but it has been for me. Any help would be great! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 654 Registered: 3-2004 |
Speakeasy, When I am having a hard time and struggling I write God a letter. I tell Him exactly what is going on in my mind. I own every thing negative and positive and do not sugarcoat anything because he knows what is in my mind anyway. I write the letter to clarify what is happening in my mind. After the letter is written, I kneel and read it to God. After that I listen to the silence. Sometimes I read the letter to a very good friend. God does not give me answers right away and some things He does not answer. He will give me answers through the friend to whom I read the letter, He will put Bible verses in my mind. He has a million ways to answer me. But most of all I trust that what ever happens to me is God's will for me. God did not bring me this far to drop me and leave me. He did not bring you this far to drop you and leave you either. He knows your struggle and is there to hold you up as you go through this. I have learned to trust God with everything in my life, no matter how large or small. Where He has me right now is where I belong. I may not like the circumstances, but God is in charge and He will help me. That is how I am and where I am right now. I hope and pray it helps you. Diana | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 169 Registered: 9-2002 |
I have prayed for 9 years on this and this I guess is were G-d wants me to be. If G-d wanted me to believe or be somewere else in my walk with him on this matter and others. You would think G-d would have talked with me in 9 years about this. I guess I will be like you I will hope and pray more as well that G-d will help me on this matter. But I though he has but when I start to view or ask questions I find out otherwise. Thanks flyinglady for your input!!! Thanks for telling me what has helped you. speakeasy | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 450 Registered: 7-2003 |
Okay, time to start wrapping this up! This is a bit long, but hopefully it will start pulling together some of the things we have been studying from scripture. In the past couple of weeks we have studied dozens of Bible versus that teach all of the following truths: 1. There is only one BEING that is God, YHWH. There are no other gods besides YHWH. YHWH is ONE single living BEING. 2. The Father, Son, and Spirit are three persons (but NOT three separate beings). 3. The Father, Son, and Spirit are YHWH (they are three persons in ONE single BEING - YHWH). So what do we do with all this? Are these biblical truths contradictory to each other or are they complementary? If you believe that the Bible does not teach error and never contradicts itself, then you already know the answer to these questions. But we can also show that these truths are NOT a logical contradiction in any sense. These truths may be hard to fully comprehend, but there is no logical contradiction between them. Understanding how these truths are complementary requires an understanding of the differences in the term ìBeingî and ìpersonî. This is also my opportunity to begin answering some of the detail oriented questions that I deferred until the end of this thread. On at least four different dates, Speakeasy has asked if I was teaching that there are three Gods. On 9/30, Susan 2 stated that it sounds like the Father and Son are different ìbeingsî. I will condense these questions from Speakeasy and Susan2 into two summary questions: 1) Are the Father, Son, and Spirit three Gods? 2) Are the Father, Son, and Spirit three Beings? The biblical answer to both of these questions is a resounding, ìNO!!!î The Bible is very clear that there is only one Being that is God. That one Being is YHWH and there are no others. That is truth #1. Truth #2 teaches that the Father, Son, and Spirit are personally distinct. And Truth #3 teaches that these personal distinctions are essential to the one Being that is YHWH. The confusion here comes from trying to use our human experience to understand God. In our human experience, a human being is always a person. More specifically, a single human being is always one person. So we often make the mistake of thinking that the terms ìBeingî and ìpersonî are synonyms. They are not! The dictionary definition of ìBeingî is ìA living thingî. To be clear on what I am about to say, let me stress that the following is *NOT* an analogy for God. It is a demonstration of the linguistic differences in the two terms we are discussing. Consider how many ìliving thingsî you can name. Many of the things that we would acknowledge are ìliving thingsî we would all agree are not persons. Take a sea cucumber for instance. Itís a living invertebrate animal that almost appears to be a plant. Itís ìa living thingî so according to the dictionary itís a ìbeingî. But it doesnít love or experience other emotions, it doesnít communicate, it doesnít interact in any sort of personal way with other living things. Under no stretch of the imagination could a sea cucumber be considered a personal being. Itís a being, but not a person. Let me stress again, this is not in anyway some sort of analogy for God, this is *ONLY* to demonstrate that the words ìBeingî and ìpersonî do not mean the exact same thing. So now that we know that ìBeingî means ìa living thingî and that the term differs from person, how do we apply this term to the truths taught by scripture? When scripture teaches that there is only one God, that God is YHWH, there are no others, it is teaching that there is only one living thing (or Being) that is God. That living thing (or Being) is YHWH. There are no other living things (or beings) that are God. God, YHWH, is one single living Being of one substance or essence. That is truth #1. When the Bible teaches that the Father, Son, and Spirit are personally distinct, it is describing the eternal personal relationships that have always existed within the one Being that is YHWH. You see, YHWH did not need to create us for companionship or love (that was an act of grace). YHWH does love us, but He doesnít ìneedî us to fulfill Him in anyway. He is complete in and of Himself. YHWHís existence has always been defined by eternal personal relationships that are intrinsic to Himself. He has always experienced personal relationships of love, communication, and interaction even before all creation. We are told that the Father loves the Son and the Son loves the Father. We see that the Father speaks to the Son and the Son speaks to the Father. We also see the Holy Spirit interact with the Father and Son as at Jesusí baptism. These personal relationships have always existed within YHWH. As someone else (Dd I think) mentioned earlier, we even see hints of this all the way back in Gen. 1 where terms such as ìUsî and ìOurî are used by God of Himself. Thereís also the fact that ìElohimî used throughout the OT (Tanek) for ìGodî uses a plural form. Itís incredibly difficult for us to understand how one single living Being can eternally exist in relationship to himself because nothing in human experience parallels it and yet the bible clearly teaches this. So the best word weíve been able to come with to describe these eternal personal relationships is the term ìpersonsî. Note that weíre not talking about three different ìbeingsî or even three different people walking around somewhere. Weíre talking about the eternal personal relationships within the one Being that is YHWH. YHWH always exists in three personally distinct ways (or persons) simultaneously. Truth #3 teaches that these three persons are equally God, equally YHWH. We cannot say that one person is more God than another. They are equally YHWH. These three persons are essential to the Being that is YHWH. These three persons are of the same substance or essence. So are these truths logically contradictory. NO! It would be a logical contradiction if we said something fallacious like, ìThere is only one Being that is God and there are three Beings that are God.î That would clearly be a logical contradiction. It would also be a logical contradiction if we said something non-sensical like, ìThere is only one person who is God and there are three persons that are God.î That would also be an obvious logical contradiction. But this is NOT what I am saying and itís most definitely not what the Bible teaches. What the Bible teaches is this: ìThere is one Being that is God and that one being exists as three personsî. Now that we understand the difference between the terms ìBeingî and ìpersonî we can easily see that there is no logical contradiction here. We might not totally understand it, but itís certainly not logically impossible. Next time I will try to take the three truths weíve been looking at and put them all into one single statement of truth that sums up what the Bible teaches about the Being and persons of God. Chris | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 170 Registered: 9-2002 |
WOW Chris! Your study on this topic is very indepth and very detailed. Thanks for all of your input and thanks for all of your time on this. Anybody that comes on this thread and has a question on this topic will be able to read it and get what they need. Thanks speakeasy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 823 Registered: 12-2003 |
Chris, what an excellent explanation! Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 451 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thank you for the encouragement and kind words, Speakeasy and Colleen. Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 452 Registered: 7-2003 |
Those that have been following this thread have no doubt noticed that I have been EXTREMELY repetitious in repeating the following Biblical truths: 1. There is only one BEING that is God, YHWH. There are no other gods besides YHWH. YHWH is ONE single living BEING. 2. The Father, Son, and Spirit are three persons (but NOT three separate beings). 3. The Father, Son, and Spirit are YHWH (they are three persons in ONE single BEING - YHWH). It may seem like overkill to state these truths every time I refer to what the Bible teaches about God, but keep in mind that even these three truths are only a brief summary of what is taught in dozens of passages throughout scripture. Just consider how long it has taken to list all the scripture that teaches these truths about God! Think of how many pages these Bible passages have filled. Obviously we need a more succinct way of referring to the truths that the Bible teaches about God. We need something that sums all of the Bibleís teaching up without listing every single text or repeatedly restating the ìthree truthsî every time we discuss the God of the Bible. The best summary statement I have ever seen is from apologist James R. White (no connection to James and Ellen as far as I know). White sums up all three of the Biblical teachings about Godís substance in the following statement: ìWithin the one Being that is God, there exist eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.î This statement is very helpful because it is a true, accurate, succinct statement of what the Bible really teaches on this matter. But even this statement can be a real mouthful to use every time we want to talk about the God of the Bible. So we sometimes use a sort of shorthand to reduce this summary into a brief phrase, such as this: ìOne God in three personsî This phrase contains less detail then Whiteís summary statement, but it is still an accurate representation of what all those passages of scripture teach. But even this brief phrase can be shortened somewhat. It can be summarized as a title. A shorter title can still retain truth as long as we know what scripture teaches and understand the three truths that lie behind it. Consider this very brief title. ìThe Triune Godî This title acknowledges that that there is only ONE God ì-UNE Godî, but that within this one God there exists three persons ìTriî. So all of the Biblical truths are summed up in a very short title. But there is also a need in discussions and writing to be able to sum all these truths up in a single word. Now this is where some people get nervous. Some people object to using any word that isnít found in the Bible. But consider all the words we use to sum up and describe real truths that are really taught by the Bible. Let me give just one example (but there are others). The word eschatology is used as shorthand technical term to refer to the Bibleís teaching on last things or end time events. The word eschatology never appears in the Bible. Does this mean that the Bible doesnít teach about last things or end time events? No, of course not. We would probably all agree that the Bible teaches about end time events in dozens of places throughout scripture. So is it okay to use the word eschatology? Well, it sure beats listing every single thing the Bible teaches about end time events every single time you talk about end time events or write about end time events. In fact, saying ìeschatologyî is a whole lot more succinct than saying ìend time eventsî repeatedly. Itís just a short hand way of referring to what the Bible. The word itself may not be Biblical, but the truths it refers to are most certainly Biblical. The same is true of the word most Christians use to sum up the three truths that the Bible teaches about the substance of God: ìTrinityî This one word is not found in the Bible, but it refers to truths that are most certainly taught in the Bible. This one short-hand word sums up the following truth: ìWithin the one Being that is God, there exist eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.î This in turn sums up the following three truths: 1. There is only one BEING that is God, YHWH. There are no other gods besides YHWH. YHWH is ONE single living BEING. 2. The Father, Son, and Spirit are three persons (but NOT three separate beings). 3. The Father, Son, and Spirit are YHWH (they are three persons in ONE single BEING - YHWH). Which in turn sum up dozens of passages throughout scripture. Those who have grown weary of my repeated restatements of these truths will be glad to know that I will now begin using the short hand term ìTrinityî to refer to all these truths and all that the Bible teaches on these truths. Now that we have had a couple of weeks to really study EXACTLY what is summarized by this term, weíll all be able to understand what is meant when someone says ìTrinityî. Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 453 Registered: 7-2003 |
ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS I would like to continue answering detail oriented questions that came up during the course of this discussion. There were several questions asked at various times that could be summed up as, ìWhy did Jesus pray and who did He pray to?î Letís start with the ìwhyî. Consider Philippians 2:6-8 ì[Christ Jesus], existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage. ìInstead He emptied himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form, ìHe humbled Himself By becoming obedient to the point of death- Even to death on a cross.î During the incarnation Jesus continued to exist as God and to be fully equal with God. However, during the incarnation, He sovereignly chose not to use all the powers and privileges of His divinity. He was fully God and fully man. He not only took on the form and nature of man, but He lived life as a man. During the incarnation Christ lived in dependence on the Father and in complete obedience to the Father. In living in dependence on and obedience to the Father, Jesus set an example for us. We also are to live in dependence to the Father. We also are to live in obedience to the Father. We also are to come before the Father in prayer. When you think about this, it is quite amazing that we are given the privilege of approaching the Father directly in the same way the Son did during His earthly ministry. It is an honor and a privilege. Now as we address the ìwhoî we will also see that there is yet another ìwhyî. Who was Jesus praying to? The answer is that the Son was speaking to the Father. The fact that the Son communed with the Father, the Son spoke to the Father, and the Father spoke to the Son should not surprise us in the least. We have seen from our Bible study that the one living Being that is YHWH has always existed in relationship to Himself. Within the one Being that is God there have always been relationships of love, communion, and communication. It should come as no surprise that these eternal relationships continued during the incarnation. It could not be otherwise. Chris | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 196 Registered: 4-2000 |
An excellent study, Chris! A special thanks for your extensive biblical research on this very important topic. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 454 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thank you Dennis. Your encouragement is appreciated. Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 455 Registered: 7-2003 |
WHY DID JESUS SAY, ìMY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME IN MATT. 27:46? Jesus is quoting the 22nd Psalm which begins, ìMy God, my God, why have you forsaken meî. There were no chapters in the Hebrew scriptures and Psalms were known by their first lines. The Jews at the cross would have instantly known which Psalm Jesus was quoting. In quoting the 22nd Psalm, Jesus is pointing out to all who are listening that He is the ultimate fulfillment of this OT passage. Consider these versus. 11 Be not far from me, for trouble is near; For there is none to help. 12 Many bulls have surrounded me; Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me. 13 They open wide their mouth at me, As a ravening and a roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It is melted within me. 15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And my tongue cleaves to my jaws; And You lay me in the dust of death. 16 For dogs have surrounded me; A band of evildoers has encompassed me; They pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me; 18 They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots. Psalms 22:11-18 (NASB) When this Psalm was written, 600 years before Christ, crucifixion has not yet been invented and yet this Psalm speaks of his bones being out of joint and his hands and feet being pierced. We also know that Jesus clothes were divided by Romans (gentile ìdogsî ñ see Matt. 15:21-28). When Jesus quotes this Psalm it is yet another claim to being the one who would fulfill the scriptures. There is another aspect to this that is worth exploring as well. This Psalm was originally written by David to describe his anguish as a righteous man that was being attacked by unrighteous enemies. Throughout Jesusí ministry we see Him quoting scripture to answer questions and make points. No other Psalm so aptly fitted Christís circumstances on the cross. By quoting this Psalm, Jesus is pointing to himself as the ultimate righteous sufferer. Jesus is often identified with David or as being the son of David. It seems natural here that Jesus would identify with Davidís cry of anguish. Finally, we must remember that Jesus experienced not only physical anguish on the cross, but also mental and spiritual anguish. Christ bore the sins of the world and therefore the full wrath of God against sin. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Cor 5:21 (NASB) and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. 1 Peter 2:24 (NASB) Jesus was fully God and fully man. He had two natures, human and divine. Jesus had a human body, a human mind, a human soul, and human emotions. Jesus could experience everything that you and I experience (with the exception of sin). His human nature could be hungry, tired, in pain, sad, and experience a troubled soul. Jesus felt the terrible wrath of God against sin and in that moment it is possible that his human nature experienced some sense of the gulf between God and man. This last bit is perhaps speculative, but what seems clear is that Jesus was expressing His anguish and His fulfillment of scripture. Chris |
