| Author |
Message |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 86
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 11:29 am: |     |
But as Dale Ratlzaff points out, there is still no "resurrection" according to SDA theology. It still wouldn't be me. So, according to SDA theology, even if I live a perfect, sinless life and die before Jesus comes, someone else gets to enjoy heaven for all eternity instead of me! And if I'm not perfect, someone else who has never sinned has to burn up in hell instead of me, and I am not punished at all!
The only way to make it to heaven would be to live a perfect, sinless life and make sure you don't die before Jesus comes!
And to avoid hell, all you would have to do is make sure you die before Jesus comes. You would get "rewarded" (your punishment taken away) for committing suicide! That sounds a lot like the EGW theology of Satan getting rewarded (less bearing of punishment as "scapegoat") for keeping people out of heaven. So according to SDA theology, if Satan got someone to commit suicide, God would reward both that person and Satan for it!!!
What a sick, disgusting false religion.
Praise Jesus for the truth of His Word!
Jeremy |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 80
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 12:06 pm: | |
I have often pondered that the SDA church keeps providing vege substitutes.
vege-Gospel: The health message teaches "living longer" which is such poor substitute for preaching "living forever".
vege-Scripture: The Bible is too hard to understand, read Ellen instead (or the Clear Word)
vege-Spirit: The everlasting character that is distinct from the body.
vege-Gifts of the Spirit: The annual Spiritual Gifts Inventory forms that preceed nominating committee.
I am sure I could keep going with the substitutes.
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Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1104
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 4:03 pm: | |
This character issue bugs the heck out of me. Some people who are true Christan have totally deplorable charactors. I know dedicated Christians who are very unhappy, miserble people. Only their faith in Jesus and their belief that sucide is a sin keeps them alive. I don't believe they will be sad charactos in heaven. Or, am I possibly applying a wrong defination to the word "charactor"? |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 218
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 7:04 pm: | |
EASY ENGLISH VERSION
Although I recall an announcement about it many months ago, today I saw a book attributed to Ellen White in the new EASY ENGLISH VERSION.
Obviously, with this new version, it will be easier for empowered apologists to hide Ellen White's rampant plagiarism. Therefore, it is no surprise that the White Estate commissioned and promoted this new publishing venture.
Dennis J. Fischer |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 741
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 8:32 pm: | |
I have never been able to correlate being a true Christian with being unhappy and miserable. In my mind those characteristics just do not compute with each other. When one is a true Christian they are not unhappy and miserable, no matter what is happening in their lives.
Dennis, What is this Easy English Version a version of?? |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 53
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 11:20 pm: | |
In response to the statement about certain Christians who are miserable while living here on earth, I believe there are those who are having a hard time living in their skins, yet trust Jesus as much as they possibly can in this sin-infested world. I live with someone who has mental illness. That means that some of their assumptions come across as clouded, and their mental confusion and difficulties can make them very difficult to be around. That doesn't mean that they haven't given themselves to Jesus as much as they can based on their understanding of the Gospel. In heaven there will be full, complete mental clarity, the illness will be no more. Yes, you can be miserable here and still trust Jesus for your salvation. The "character" those individuals will take to heaven will be the character they would have had under ideal circumstances. That is just my opinion. That "character" is the soul that goes to heaven at the time of mortal death or when Jesus takes them home when he comes.
Belva |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1106
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 8:47 am: | |
Belva, you said it so much better than I did. You said what I was thinking. I especially have in mind one lady I know. She is a bit elderly now. Has had an extremely wonderful life during the middle part of her life. Yet, her chldhood was horrible and her elderly years are filled with sorrow. She was a little girl in Germany under Hitler. She is pure German, yet there were many regulations and rules that the Gremans had to abide by and her parents had to enforce the rules so they would be in good standing with the government authorities who would go around house to house checking on compliance. She saw things that still haunt her and feels guilt that she was unable to help those who were suffering so greatly. We tell her and tell her to not have guilt over that, she was a little girl and she was helpless in that situtation too. Yet, she weeps over it. Then her middle years were wonderful. She immagrated to another country and lived a life of luxery and joy, jilled with only wonderful people and things, everthing one could want, travel, a beautiul mansion in the hills, etc. Then her wonderful husband of 35 years died, she lost everything to a hurricane, she had nothing but the money put into the savings. She is alone with her memories. She begs God to take her home. Yes, she is a Christian. She is a sad Christian. I think there are many. Belva, thanks for explaininy it so well. |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 219
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 4:10 pm: | |
Flyinglady,
I just happened to see the book lying on a coffee table in an SDA home yesterday. I didn't even take note of the book title. I just saw the name of Ellen White and the words, "EASY ENGLISH VERSION." The White Estate is rewriting several EGW books into EASY ENGLISH.
They should republish/rewrite "An Appeal to Mothers" in Easy English (smile). Oh yes, the SDA Clear Word Bible was underneath the Sabbath School Quarterly by the kitchen table.
Dennis J. Fischer |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 746
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 8:38 am: | |
Dennis,
The SDAs think, I can only guess, that the common SDA cannot read English and therefore EGW books have to be rewritten in Easy English. It is like we cannot understand the books and the Bible written in English. So they did the Clear Word Bible and rewrite EGW books in Easy English. That is an INSULT!!!!!
Every time I get on this forum I learn something else about the SDA church and can now see it for the controlling organization that it is. That is cult like. Do not read anything unless we approve and we will rewrite books so you can understand them. That is awful. I just have to remember, GOD is still in charge and HIS will will be done in the end.
God is awesome in His love for everyone as He is not willing that any should perish.
Diana |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 220
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 1:32 pm: | |
SNACKBARS FOR THE SOUL
My wife Sylvia wanted me to share with you some gems from the writings of Charles Spurgeon that recently blessed her. October 16, 2000 is known as FREEDOM DAY in our home. This was the day that we officially severed our membership in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. It was exactly 113 year earlier that Charles Spurgeon stated, "Long ago I ceased to count heads. Truth is usually in the minority in this evil world. I have faith in the Lord Jesus for myself,--a faith burned into me as with a hot iron, I thank God, what I believe, I shall believe, even if I believe it alone."
"As soon as I saw, or thought I saw, that error had become firmly established, I did not deliberate, but quited the body at once. Since then my counsel has been 'Come out from among them.' I have felt that no protest could be equal to that of separation." (The Sword and Trowel)
"You need to read. Renounce as much as you will all light literature, but study as much as possible sound theological works...and expositions of the Bible...the best way for you to spend your leisure is to be either reading or praying."
"...and I will go as far as Martin Luther, in that strong assertion of his, where he says, 'If any man doth ascribe of salvation, even the very least, to the free will of man, he knoweth no thing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright."
"He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own."
"Let us never fear as to the future! While we see our Lord and Representative sitting in quiet expectancy we too may sit in the attitude of peaceful assurance and with confidence await the grand outcome of all events. As surely as Jehovah liveth Jesus must reign, yea, even now He is reigning, though all His enemies are not yet subdued...Those rebels who now stand high in power, shall soon be in the place of comtempt. They shall be His foootstool. He shall with ease rule them. He shall sit and put His foot on them..." (Quotes on Christ as Conquering King)
"it is no novelty, then, that I am preaching; no new doctrine. I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines that are called by nickname Calvinism, but which are truly and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus."
"Calvinism did not spring from Calvin. We believe that it sprang from the great Founder of all truth."
"If Christ on His cross intended to save every man, then He intended to save those who were lost before He died. To think that my Savior died for men who were or are in Hell, seems a supposition too horrible for me to entertain."
As George Whitefield aptly stated, "We are all born Arminians. It is grace that turns us into Calvinists."
In awe of His amazing grace,
Dennis J. Fischer
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Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1114
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 3:14 pm: | |
Who is/was Charles Sprugen? |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 221
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 4:15 pm: | |
Susan,
Concurrently, Charles Spurgeon, the great Baptist preacher, was to England what Dwight Moody was to America in the nineteenth century.
For further details, simply use your favorite search engine and type in either "Charles Spurgeon" or "Dwight Moody." Spurgeon was an acclaimed preacher at the age of 21. God used both of these men in a mighty way.
Dennis J. Fischer |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 222
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 4:38 pm: | |
Susan,
Interestingly, Charles Spurgeon employed colporteurs in England to sell his books and also Bibles door-to-door. Unlike Ellen White, Spurgeon subsidized his colporteurs with his own royalties. He did not expect them to live on the meager commission income of a colporteur alone.
In contrast, Ellen White NEVER subsidized her colporteurs (bookmen)with her royalties. Indeed, she was the notable SDA "PROFIT." When the SDA publishers asked her to consider reducing her royalty fees so more people could afford her books, she immediately informed them that their even thinking about this was a direct snare of the devil himself.
Furthermore, she even threatened her SDA publishers with taking her printing of books to another printer if they did not drop the idea of a small reduction in royalty fees. It was impossible to win an argument with her. She was always right in all things.
Dennis J. Fischer |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 93
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 5:11 pm: | |
Here is one of the funniest quotes by EGW:
"The volumes of Spirit of Prophecy, and also the Testimonies, should be introduced into every Sabbathkeeping family, and the brethren should know their value and be urged to read them. It was not the wisest plan to place these books at a low figure and have only one set in a church. They should be in the library of every family and read again and again. Let them be kept where they can be read by many, and let them be worn out in being read by all the neighbors." (Testimonies for the Church, Volume Four, page 390, paragraph 3.)
There can be no explanation for her saying that her books shouldn't have been set at a low price, other than she wanted more money! Also notice that she wanted the books to be worn out, so they would have to buy more!
She goes on and on for the next several pages about how her books should be read, bought, sold, etc. It is quite an interesting read!
She says, "We must carry the publications to the people and urge them to accept, showing them that they will receive much more than their money's worth. Exalt the value of the books you offer. You cannot regard them too highly."
Her books are of infinite worth? You can't regard them too highly? If she really meant that, that would mean that you could regard them higher than anything else, and even worship them above God!
Jeremy |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 748
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 5:26 pm: | |
It seems to me that if a writer wants everyone to have their books they offer them at a price the common person can afford. Also, if EGW wanted her books sold and was a true Christian, she would have done with less royalties and more for the people that sold them. What she did tells me a lot about her, besides her plagiarism. She was not charitable. And people still are deluded by her, even when shown statements like the above.
I have never seen or heard of her urging people to buy and read a Bible. Did She???? I am glad I am not God because I would want to zap her when she made statements like that and all the other garbage she wrote. God is awesome and I am not, but He loves me and I love Him.
Diana |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 223
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 6:55 pm: | |
Ellen White also received the top salary scale for SDA ministers. Thus, she had a double-faceted income. Indeed, she lived the life of the rich and famous in her day (i.e., traveling first class on ships, lovely country home with office complex nearby, personal nurse, cook, gardener, horseman, secretaries, bookmakers, etc.). James White was right when he wrote to his wife that "there is yet wealth in our pens."
Furthermore, her earnings were tax-free and tithe-free. To my knowledge, there is no official record of her returning an honest tithe through regular church channels. She felt that her position was of such a lofty rank that she could simply do whatever she wanted to with her money. This careless practice of living beyond her means led to being insolvent upon her death--the SDA Church had to pay her extensive debts to save face with the creditors. In short, she was always the honored exception to the rules.
Dennis J. Fischer |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1115
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 7:15 pm: | |
In 5th grade my teacher was totally EGW and very little Bible. This was back in the days when a lot of the teachers in the SDA schools still did not even have any college education. All one needed to get a job teaching in a SDA elementary school was to be super SDA. This is what my 5th grade teacher was. She did not have a college education. She did have good standing with the SDA church and she knew EGW like I know my own home. She told us kids over and over and over that we are to place The Testemones and The Great Controversery on a table and then either put the Bible on top of those books or place the EGW books in a circle around the Bible. She taught us to treet the Bible and the EGW books like if they were idols. She did not teach us what the Bible said or taught, except or the verse John 3:16 but she taught us proper placement of the books and to be in awe of the books themselves. My best friend that year lived several blocks from me and every day after school and on non-school days her and me would just want to be together all the time. Her dad smoked cigerettes and her family drank beer. This teacher had the nerve to telephone my dad and tell my dad he shouldn't let me spend time with my friend because her fammily woud stear me in the wrong direction because they smoked and used alcohol. My dad told her to mind her own business, that when I wasn't at school then him and my mom would raise me as they saw fit and my friends family were very nice people and if I couldn't hang with my friend then he'd just take me out of the SDA school and put me back in public school and then for sure it would be none of her business. She told him God wanted me to have a Christian education and he told her if she really believed that then she needed to butt out of our private life and so she did and I got stuck staying in that class with that horrible teacher. This was the same teacher that asked our class once for a show of hands if any of our parents got The Plain Truth Magazine at our house. That's the magazine that Herbert W. Armstrong put out at that time. Me and another boy raised or hands. She kept him and me in at recess and told us that the magazine was of satan and we were to never look into it or read anything in it. She told us that she realized we were kids and had no control over what magazines our parents got in the mail but we could not have to look into it. She even went on to tell us that Herbert Armstrong had the truth of the Sabbath and this was more proof that he was of satan because satan gave HWA the Sabbath truth to keep people from coming into the real true church, the SDA that had the Sabbath. Needless to say this just sparked my courosity and after that when the Plain Truth would come in our mail I would read it cover to cover trying to figure out what was so bad about it. It was boring. Mostly about things that didn't interest me. Prophecy of Daniel and Revolation interpertered by how HWA understood it. She was such a horrible teacher. I am very fortunate that I got to go to public school for the next five years. Now my granddaughter is in a SDA school and the child is being taught the same trash I was taught many years ago. |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 224
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 9:03 pm: | |
Susan,
I can fully understand your heartache about your granddaughter having to attend an SDA school. Two of our three grandchildren still attend an SDA school. Sylvia and I are truly reaping the results of misleading our children. It is not easy to admit to your grown children that you taught them wrong about the most important things in life. We must take it to the Cross and leave it there. It hurts--I know it does! Indeed, we serve a prayer-answering God.
Dennis J. Fischer |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 212
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 9:26 am: | |
WOW Dennis,
Where can I find reference for your incredible story of EGW and her finances? There is so much hidden darkness. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1119
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 11:07 am: | |
Dennis, Actually my children have only had SDA exposure trough their grandparents and their assorted kin. Well the older two did attend the SDA church until they were around 10 and 7 years old but that's it. I can only assume my one son is so taken in by Adventism because of his deep and abiding devotion to his grandparents. Also, during is military carreer he ha had SDA chaplins on the bases that really have been wonderful people and I'm sure this too has had an influence on him. My granddaughter was barely 6 last year and in kindergarten when one day I asked her to tell me about school that day. She then told me the biography of Ellen. She told me that Ellen was a very special little girl and she just wanted to serve Jesus. Then a mean boy hert her very bad by throwing a rock at her. She was sick for a long time and couldn't keep up with the other kids. But because of her love for Jesus God gave her special dreams that she wrote into books so we can read them so we can know Jesus better too. I wanted to puke! |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 947
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 11:28 am: | |
Dennis, thank you for the great posts above. I also understand your comments about reaping the results of having taught Adventism to the impressionable. I also realize that I sincerely taught and supported it to many people over the years, including many students when I taught in SDA schools. I have had to ask God to forgive me for teaching error to people, even though I believed it at the time.
God doesn't undo the results of our sins, even when our sin is committed in the blindness of deception. But He does redeem even the sins in our lives when we submit them to Him. To quote again my "life motto" from Elizabeth Inrign: "God wastes nothing, and He redeems everything we submit to Him."
Praise God!
Colleen |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 225
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 9:45 am: | |
Dd,
Simply log unto www.truthorfables.com or www.ellenwhite.org for a detailed article of her will and her insolvent condition at death. The SDA Church had to pay over $60,000.00 to satisfy her creditors (mostly owed due to her borrowing money to maintain her elegant lifestyle). The article will also tabulate the equivalent exchange rate for readers to comprehend this indebtedness in today's currency.
Dennis J. Fischer
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Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 755
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 7:23 pm: | |
Colleen,
I really like the statement about God redeeming everything we submit to Him. I have a very dear friend in VA. She called me on Sunday and I repeated something you said to her about God redeeming our past. She really liked that. Thank you so much for that. It brought her comfort along with assuring her God loved her. I guess, on thinking about it, I lead her to Jesus over the phone. I did not realize it until just now. WOW!!!
God is awesome.
Diana
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 966
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 12:14 pm: | |
Praise God, Diana!
Colleen |
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