Archive through November 03, 2004 Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Former Adventist Fellowship Forum » ARCHIVED DISCUSSIONS 3 » I Left Over Jewelry » Archive through November 03, 2004 « Previous Next »

Author Message
Mitsy
Registered user
Username: Mitsy

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, actually it wasn't "just" jewelry but that was the final ending of my stint at the SDA church. I was never a member but always believed the Sabbath was actually on Sat. I seldom ever stayed for anything but the Sabbath school due to my work schedule but for a while I did enjoy the Sabbath school lessons. I attended for about a year or so. Little by little, I could see just how legalistic this faith was. Their was "subtle" messages that "jewelry" was wrong, that "makeup" was wrong, and that "going to movies" was wrong. I have read all of the scriptures pertaining to makeup and jewelry. I do not see anything wrong with minimal makeup or jewelry. Of course, anything can be overdone, but the Adventists make the jewelry/makeup issue into a "holiness" issue. It goes back to a works-based faith which, in my opinion, goes totally against grace as the sole basis for salvation - which I believe is the reason that Christ's shed blood is enough for any of us.

One Sabbath morning I wasn't in attendance and found out the next week that there had been somewhat of an argument or heated discussion about a SDA pastor who did not want to baptise a woman because she wore earrings that her deceased grandmother had given her. The woman who shared the story didn't wear jewelry herself but said that she thought this was wrong (which I would have agreed with had I been there that day). Two other women in the congregation sided with the pastor and thought that was OK for him to refuse to baptise the woman. (Don't know where this happened..if she read it somewhere or heard it.) How I knew about it at all was that the woman who shared the story originally got up and apologized for "offending" anyone the previous week. While she did not expand on what the offense was, I later asked her what happened and she shared with me what took place the week before. I told her I would have greatly been offended if I thought a pastor would not baptise someone for that reason. There had been other little jabs in the "readings" that took place before the Sabbath school lessons. Stories of people who did not "need" to wear jewelry or make-up in order to fit in with society. I took those stories personally at the time as well but decided not to make an issue of it unless it came up again. It came up a total of 3 times during my attendance at the SDA. The last time (story about the pastor) was the final time I set foot in the SDA church. I found it revolting that a "supposedly" Christian church would make insinuations that someone wasn't as holy as someone else or was somehow inferior to others just because they wore makeup or jewelry. I personally thought many of the sisters at the SDA church looked washed out and unkept due to their no-makeup belief, but I would never pass judgement on their salvation by how they dressed or how they presented themselves to others. It is personal choice and has nothing to do with salvation or holiness.
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew

Post Number: 47
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Mitzy,

I'm a third-generation SDA who has always questioned the SDA stand on grooming and accessorizing. I attended SDA schools and churches for the first half of my life and have watched as people I admired dealt with both sides of those issues. I'm a redhead (read pale and colorless). As a child I was made fun of and called names because I was so ghostly white. In my early teens I started using makeup but was very covert about it. Ask any number of other former SDA women and they will tell you the same. Mix your foundation with Noxzema, put your lipstick on with your little finger and cover it over with Chapstick, after you thinly apply your mascara you use a straight pin to separate each lash. If you think about it that process takes way too long, and in the case of the straight pin it can be dangerous.

One of the sweetest women in our church was married to a non-adventist, so she wore a wedding band. She taught the kindergarten class for years, and had a beautiful voice and she graced us with her talent for years, but was never allowed to be a deaconess unless she took off the ring. She never did remove it because she wore it for her husband. I admired her for her stand, but worried that this wonderful woman had chosen her husband over Jesus.

In my mid-twenties I slipped quietly out the back door of the church, not because of make-up or jewelry, but because I was so incredibly lonely. Because of other things that had happened to me as a kid, which I don't want to go into here, I felt I could never measure up, so I just faded away.

After I married and had a couple of kids I decided that I owed it to them to introduce them to faith. I returned to church and their first order of business was to remove my jewelry. They used the same reasoning on me as they did on that blessed woman I'd known earlier in my life. "We need someone like you as our Sabbath School Superintendent, but you'll need to remove your jewelry." I cooperated, but I still didn't feel there was anything wrong with wearing it. My mother-in-law had given me a pendant, and one day I went to lunch with her and my sisters-in-law so I wore that pendant. When I returned home one of the dear sisters at the church had stopped by to see me for some reason, saw the pendant, and scolded me for backsliding.

The interesting thing is that not two months later an umpty-ump from the General Conference came through town with the assignment of holding meetings about makeup and jewelry. What had happened is that some pictures of EGW had been found showing her and her daughters-in-law wearing jewelry. It came out that this family photo showing these daughters-in-law wearing jewelry were doing what I had done, wearing the jewelry their mother-in-law had given them out of respect for her. The GC man confessed that they had been airbrushing the jewelry off of those dear ladies for ages. He also stated that the bible was ambiguous about makeup and jewelry and that the Christian standard had always been moderation in all things. After he had finished with his revelations he asked that all of the good people would go on doing as they had always done (remain unadorned and colorless) in order to preserve the established standards of the church.

Praise God, I have since become more enlightened with regard to what is truly required of God's elect, and trying to look a certain way isn't going to assure me of salvation. My sins have been washed away by the precious blood of my Savior.

It amazes me that these many years after the GC confession the old chesnut about makeup and jewelry is being used as a salvation issue--still! It should be so obvious that all of that stuff is just based on the decisions of men!

I'm grateful that you didn't fall under the influence of too much of that confusion. God didn't intend for us to be confused about his grace.

Belva
Mitsy
Registered user
Username: Mitsy

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was never a possible "convert" myself. I merely liked worshipping on Sat. mornings since my belief was that the Sabbath was actually on Sat. However, the legalistic "standards" that kept creeping into the lessons or sermonettes actually pushed me away. I also did some research on the Ellen White issues of jewelry. Ellen did a lot of double-talk it seems. No wonder many people are confused. She said no one should wear jewelry while wearing a cameo-type pin in several pictures. I've seen the pictures and have to wonder why anyone would think this woman was a prophetess. Ellen said a number of troubling things, many with no scriptural basis. There was also the plagiarizing issue. Many things about Ellen were a stumbling block for me.

There ended up being more negatives than positives for me to continue to attend. Not having been raised in this faith, it was much easier for me to walk away than for others who had parents/family in it.
Mitsy
Registered user
Username: Mitsy

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.truthorfables.com/EGW_and_Jewelry.htm

Interesting web site on Ellen and all those legalistic "rules" that bind many Adventists.
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra

Post Number: 248
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mitsy,

Didn't they tell you pins are ok, diamond watches are ok, rolexes, earrings as long as they are worn on your shirt or collar, $50.00 scarfs are fine??

Didn't you know?

LOL!!!!!!

Absurd, that is what I think and always thought.

Great to have you here!
Sabra
Vchowdhury1
Registered user
Username: Vchowdhury1

Post Number: 66
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And also Sabra, add to that the luxurious houses on the hills, the Rolls Royce Auto, the "Coach" handbags, the Mink hats and coats in the winter!! Boy oh boy. If I could afford those like some sda ministers and their wives, I would gladly give up MY cheap jewelry in exchange! Who wouldn't!!!!
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 696
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mitsy,
Welcome to the FAF. You will find understanding here with whatever you are going through.
I was raised SDA. When I was put out of the church I was wearing jewelry and some makeup. Since the first of this year I have gotten my ears pierced and enjoy wearing earings, long dangly ones. If my jewelry ever comes between me and God, then the jewelry goes. My make up is done tastefully and my jewelry is tasteful as well. God looks at my heart and how I treat others and if what I do reflects His love through me to others.
He is awesome.
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1058
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 2:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is an interesring thread. Welcome, Misty. In my area lives an older man. I'd guess him to be in his early 60's but because he has developmental disabilities and is built a way that is way different than most people it is really hard to guess his age. He might be younger or older than my guess. Several years ago in the middle of the night I was just tossing and turning and could not sleep. So, got in the car and went to Denny's for hot cocoa. Sitting at the counter was Jerry. This is a small town and people who don't actually know each other generally will recognise each other as locals. Jerry recognised me and he asked me to sit with him and I did. We got to visiting and he told me about how much his church means to him and he invitd me to attend his church. Then he told me that for three years before he began attending the church where he now attends he went to the local SDA church over in the next town nearly every week. The few weeks he didn't go was because he was sick and he couldn't. You need to know that to get that far is a big ordeal for Jerry. He doesn't drive a car at all so he takes the bus. Our bus service here is lously. But he attended the SDA nearly each Saturday for three years. By now he considered himself to be SDA. He went to the pastor and asked to be baptized. The minister refused telling Jerry he had to completely stop smoking first before he could be a bapitized SDA. Oh, poor Jerry in his wisdom (ignorance to the SDA's) he had told the SDA preacher that he thought he was supposed to first give his life to Jesus and then the Holy Spirit would work in him to help him overcome his addiction to cigrettes. The precher told him he had it backwards. But, Jerry knew what Jesus said so Jerry never again went to the SDA church. He stayed home and cried for several weeks because he was lonly. Then he told his sad story to someone else in the community who invited him to attend his church the next Sunday. A little Penticostal church a few blocks over. Jerry went. He gave his testomony about wanting to have Jesus and also wanting to stop smoking. They had him come to the front of this little church and they laid hands on him and prayed over him and very soon afterwards he was bapitized. Within several weeks after beginning this little Penticoastal church Jerry had completely stopped smoking and he told me he does not even desire a cigerete. What faith and wisdom Jerry has. Then a few months later I was with my numerous relatives, most of who are varying degres of SDA and I shared this story. I got my kin all stired up and verbally duking it out as some sided with the SDA ppreacer and some didn't and when the discussion got too heated for me I split. That's how they are. Praise God that Jerry in his "simple mindedness" knew Gods calling.
Mitsy
Registered user
Username: Mitsy

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 7:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I enjoyed the story of Jerry. For what it's worth, I spent time at a local UPC (United Pentecostal Church) myself but found that they believe you must speak in tongues in order to be truly saved. I hope that the church he's in now doesn't start drilling that into his head. They are legalistic as well, but the church I attended never brought up dress issues or "standards" as they called it. I didn't leave over dress issues but of what they viewed as the "salvation process".

It boils down to a "holier than thou" attitude by any church group that thinks they are somehow better than others not in their faith. I also realize that this problem happens in other less restrictive denominations as well--maybe regarding other issues, but I do think it happens. Being judgemental and controlling is NOT the way to win others to Christ. It's a way to exert power or pressure in order to get others to fall in line with their cookie-cutter image of what a Christian is "supposed" to look like. Well, I have news for them. Christians come in all different shapes, sizes, and dress style preferences.

The SDA church practices a form of denegration to those who don't tow the line; who don't "fit the mold" of a good SDA. I think the message needs to be told loud and clear to those investigating the Adventist faith that they simply are NOT another Chrisitian denomination. There are all kinds of strings attached to membership within this group. Belonging to a "club" is not my idea of a church family. Glad I found this out before it got too hard to walk away.
Mitsy
Registered user
Username: Mitsy

Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 8:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sabra, no I honestly cannot say I saw a lot of lavish spending in how the pastor or the other members lived. I can't say that I believe any of these people were into the Rolex watches or expensive cars that some people might have. I'd say that, overall, the congregation was not a rich one. I knew the background (employment and where she lived) of one member of the group really and nothing much about the rest of the members. But, by my interactions, I'd say the others were not well-to-do by any standards.

One other woman (who also works at the same company I work for) had maybe 5 dresses that she continually wore to church. I sometimes wondered why she didn't just go to the Salvation Army to get more church clothes if she didn't want to spend the cash on new stuff. I always felt it was more of a statement that she didn't "need" more clothes in the same sense that she didn't "need" to wear jewelry or makeup. But sometimes people can use any reason to do without certain material things. That is their choice. I come from a different perspective than most SDA's I guess. I think that if others have to see us, then we should make ourselves look presentable. It doesn't mean we have to look drab and dull just to look "shame-faced" and "sober" as the scriptures say.

I oftentimes think of the verses which talk about "taking up of the serpent". Can't remember the verse, but you know which one I'm talking about. The SDA take so many verses as "literal" that it surprises me that they don't take up snake handling as well. :0
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw

Post Number: 169
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 9:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I really never agreed with the jewelry theory either, although I refrained from wearing any during their Sabbath services. I never got the concept on how certain people could get away with wearing wedding bands as long as they weren't elaborate. I do recall one lady wearing a necklace that contained a photo of her 2 young kids which for some reason was acceptable. It just goes to show how absurd the whole concept is about jewelry. I was invited back one time after I quit the SDA, and I went wearing a necklace, bracelets and a cross earring...and I'm a dude. As you can guess, that was my last visit...in 1986!
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 882
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mitsy, where are you worshiping now? Have you found a church where you can fellowship and be fed? God will continue to grow you establish you deeply in His freedom and truth.

Susn, thanks for sharing the Jerry story.

Colleen
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1060
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When we lived in Hawaii we attended a local SDA church. All except several families were native Hawaiian. From glancing around at the congreation I'd guess nearly everyone who attended that church had jewlery on. I think they had their Sabbath best jewlery on. Most had beautiful flower leis around their necks and some had seashell, fish and other sea creatures on their necklaces, bracelets, etc. I thought is was beautiful. Jewlery is very cultural. I Hawaii the jewlery tends to be of sea things. I've noticed in some of the Africian countries the jewlery is geometric designs. Where I live you see a lot of necklaces with St. Patrick, the patron saint of the surfers and along with that a necklace ofa surfboard. Actually I don't know if St. Pat is the patron saint of surfers but the surfers all say he is so the surf shops sell a lot of St. Pat necklaces. I've noticed the Native American jewlery has a lot of eagels, wolfs, etc. Again, it's what is in their society. Awhile back on the front cover of the Review was a man from a country in Africa. The man must have had at least 30 necklaces and brcelets and other jewlery on. I think the cover story was, "The Changing Face of Adventism" or something like that. I can only figure that the anti-jewlery stance f the SDA church is for those in the western nations.
Mitsy
Registered user
Username: Mitsy

Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen: I've been attending a Primitive Baptist church for quite a long time. In fact, for quite a while I attended both the SDA church on Sat. mornings and the Primitive Baptist on Sundays (on some weeks, although not every week--Primitive Baptists only meet in their home church every other Sunday and worship at other locations on the "off" Sundays).

The service at the Primitive Baptist church is somewhat primitive (no piano or crosses/images of Christ anywhere) but the people are not. They do not seem to be legalistic as far as how they dress and do not preach against some of the things that the SDA preached against.

What I liked about the SDA church was the fact that I actually did get something out of the Sabbath school lessons. Primitive Baptists do no have any type of Sunday school, so the only actual Bible study you got was via the sermon. I felt like I was learning a bit more at the SDA church but eventually couldn't buy their doctrines. The Primtive Baptists believe that basically ALL are saved and that the person does not have to DO anything in order to be saved. Although they believe you have to be baptised in a Primitive Baptist Church in order to be a member, they do not believe that baptism has anything to do with salvation. They are totally NOT a works-based faith, unlike the SDA church.

In the end, I guess you can say that I made my decision, and while I wish there were a bit more practical study about the scriptures at the Primitive Baptist church, I at least don't feel like a hypocrite for attending and I was beginning to at the SDA. My mere presence gave the impression that I went along with what they were teaching. The jewelry issue might be a small thing to some people, but it was what it took for me to realize that I didn't belong there anymore.
Praisegod
Registered user
Username: Praisegod

Post Number: 140
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with you, Mitsy, that I have problems with the Pentecostals believing you are somewhat second class if you don't speak in tongues. I've never heard one say it's a salvation issue, however. But not all Pentecostals are the same. The UPC doesn't believe in the Trinity and many are more legalistic than Adventists. I believe some exiting members go through the same things removing themselves from that guilt/shame as do SDAS. Maybe it's different where you are, but that's what I've found to be the case.

Praise God...
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra

Post Number: 249
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Misty,

The churches I grew up in were very much into appearance and most members had plenty of money, not all.

One thing you will find out pretty quick, is while most SDA churches are basically the same, most other denominations are not.

I was saved in a Pentecostal church, they tried that evidence of the Holy Spirit- speaking in tongues thing with me and I totally disagreed with them, we studied it out and I think in the end they agreed that it was not a salvific issue. I do believe tongues are for today, but I do not believe that every saved person speaks in tongues.

Some of the other Pentecostals don't wear pants (women) or jewelry or makeup or cut their hair. That is just weird.

There are about 100 different Baptists and they are all very different. They are self-governed and don't have a conference telling them what to do and that is the reason. While the denomination of Southern Baptists, for instance, doesn't believe in women pastors, there are some Southern Baptist churches with women pastors because the congregation decides and votes on what goes on, not the SBA.

Don't know anything about the Primitives, if you feel God has sent you there, then there is a reason. If you aren't feeling like you are learning anything, be assured there are plenty of churches that have great study classes.

What area are you in, if you don't mind me asking.

Sabra



Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1064
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Valerie, Did you attend St. Timothy's last week?
33ad
Registered user
Username: 33ad

Post Number: 95
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In Africa, wedding bands have never been a problem for the SDA's. I always wore a wedding band, so did my wife. After my mom passed away, my dad (who was a pastor)remarried and also wore a wedding band until he passed away this year in May.
Mitsy
Registered user
Username: Mitsy

Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 7:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live in rural mid-west and few real choices as far as churches go. There are a number of various Baptist churches as well as a couple Methodist, Christian, etc. Most are much larger than I care for. I prefer the small church setting, so that dictates where I go usually.
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 892
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 9:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mitsy, if you are somewhat dissatisfied with your church's Bible study, you might just try visitng some other churches. One thing that has surprised me is that we have become very involved with small groups of people at our large church, and it no longer feels like a large church.

If a church is healthy and Christ and His word are central, they will have small study groups available as a regular part of church life. As our pastor has said from the "pulpit" (there really is no pulpit!), becoming involved in a small group is where you will find your personal fellowship and involvement in the body of Christ.

Bible study is vital, and there is something unique and necessary about studying with other people who are open to the Holy Spirit and committed to learning the word of God. Our church has women's and men's Bible studies, and they are wonderful. They don't all meet on Sunday--the women's Bible study I attend meets on Monday nights.

When a church really is committed to Jesus and making Him known, the size becomes a secondary issue because involvement and intimacy are available. True fellowship is the result of the Holy Spirit's presence, and it's possible to find that true fellowship in venues that normally might seem unlikely.

Just a thought!

Colleen

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration