| Author |
Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1049
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 5:18 pm: |     |
Tracey, here's a hug from me as well! I'm thankful and proud of you for knowing you must take a stand and be true to the Holy Spirit.
Melissa, the Adventists I know wait until sundown to open their presents. Our 21-yr-old said that when he was young, he used to hate it when Christmas was on Sabbath (so did I, for that matter), because everything was on hold until sundown. And then it's not Christmas anymore!
I'm sure there are some more liberal Adventists who open gifts on Sabbath, but given that a very few decades ago many Adventists wouldn't even put up Christmas trees because they were symbols of paganism, the fact of waiting for sundown seems a small price to pay to at least be able to HAVE Christmas!
It's all very warped. Christmas, to an Adventist, is mostly secular. To them, Jesus' birth is a valid reason to "celebrate", but we can't enjoy ourselves or have secular fun on the Holy Day. Presents are definitely about secular fun. (When I was young, it wasn't even OK to listen to secular Christmas music on Sabbath--no "Deck the Halls," "Silver Bells," "Frosty, the Snowman"...you get the idea.)
Let us know what happens, both Tracey and Melissa!
Colleen |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 486
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 6:07 pm: | |
Melissa, I can't speak for B, but in my SDA family when Christmas fell on Sabbath we weren't allowed to open gifts until after sundown. I have to say as a child I really hated it when Christmas fell on Sabbath.
I don't want to do this to my kids as well, but we're wondering how to handle this with my in-laws this year. They're going to be horribly angry if we let the kids open gifts without them, but on the other hand, there's no way they're going to come over on Sat. morning to do it either. What to do, what to do? How do we keep the peace?
Chris |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 248
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 8:16 pm: | |
Adventism causes many needless family problems, heartaches, and inconveniences. For example, my SDA mother-in-law has now removed us from her Will; however, her Will provides funds for two of our grandchildren to attend SDA schools from elementary through college levels. Significantly, this Conference-arranged Will forbids funding for non-SDA education. If my grandchildren do not attend an SDA school, the Conference will keep all the money instead. Of course, either option is completely unsatisfactory with us.
Needless to add, Sylvia and I are often heartbroken over these and other matters that are dictated by a cultic religion. Therefore, in our case, Seventh-day Adventism will effectively threaten our peace and joy for many years to come. We solicit your prayers.
Dennis Fischer |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1196
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 8:26 pm: | |
I doubt if a dedicated SDA will have Christmas on a Sabbath. As someone above mentioned Christmas to SDA's is a secular holiday, presents, Santa, pretty lights. a famiy dinner. I have never heard the Christmas story told or preached in a SDA church on the Saturday nearest Christmas. And, of course, they do not have the traditional Christian Christmas Eve service and for sure no Christmas Midnight service. After you get through this ordeal you'd best start emotionally preparing for Easter with the SDA's. It's a non-existant event. Birthdays are even different within the SDA confines than with other people. No birthday parties or birthday presents on Sabbath. If the birthday falls on Sabbath then all the fun has to wait until after sunset or the next day. At the same time the Sabbath School leaders have all the children come to the front of the Sabbath School who had birthdays during the past week to give their special Birthday Thank Offering. Then a song is sung for the birthday child and the child is given a gift. I remember around 30 years ago my cousin had a birthday party for her little girl in the park on a beautiful Saturday afternoon. It turned into a big ordeal discussing if we could attend or not. Finily the consensus was it was o.k. because we regurally had picnics on Sabbath and if we just partisipated in the picnic aspect of the gathering and not the fun birthday part of the gathering it would be o.k. to go. And, Melissa, No, it does not work both ways. Do not expect the SDA's to do your church things on Sunday. But, do expect that they will expect you to do their church things on Saturdays. |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 245
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 8:47 pm: | |
Colleen,
Your secular Christmas music made me think how we had Sabbath music that we played only on Saturday. We would never dream of playing "sacred" music any other day of the week. My almost 13 year old jr. high daughter doesn't know anything BUT Christian music! We have K-LOVE (does anyone else in the country get that station?) set on every radio in the house and car. |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 164
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 9:03 pm: | |
Yes, I was going to mention what Susan said about not having birthday parties or opening birthday gifts on Sabbath, also.
In our family, it was also considered sinful to play/sing "secular" Christmas songs such as Jingle Bells, Silver Bells, 12 Days of Christmas, etc. on Sabbath. Any song that didn't specifically mention something religious. Even "White Christmas" was a no-no!
I even remember when singing in nursing homes on Sabbath at Christmas time, there would be discussion about whether or not to sing songs like Jingle Bells that the old folks had requested. And we even asked for requests! I guess we just hoped they would request "religious" songs!
Wow. What a legalistic cult I grew up in!
Jeremy |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 487
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 9:04 pm: | |
Dd, same music experience here. We used to listen to secular music Sun-Fri and then "Sabbath music" only on Sabbath. We had seperate CD collections, one collection just for the Sabbath hours. Now K-Love is all we listen to and our whole CD collection is Christian. Funny how knowing Jesus changes your taste.
Chris |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1197
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 9:04 pm: | |
Dennis, the SDA conferances send out their estate planners. This service is free to have ones trust drawn up and exacuted by them. The catch though is that the conference will expect a mimmium percentage of the estate. Around 10 years ago the conference estate planners came out to meet with my elderly parents. I was present throughout the meeting. First, these people insisted on stating the value of my parents property. My parents kept saying they wanted to have a professional assessor do the property value assessment. It was very obivious that the two people who came out were greatly inflating the resale value of my parents property. That was because they told my parents that in exchange for them providing the service for free the conference would get 20% (?) of the assessed value upon their deaths. The conference lawyers then told my parents that if their property increased in value before they passed away then the increased value would be the amount used in allocating the conference its 20% (?). However, they wanted to put it in the contract that if the property decreased in value then the origional value on the contract would be used. My parents listened to these two lawyers and then in unison both my parents told the conference provided lawyers that they were not interested and they'd find a local attorney to do their estate plans for them. The attornies tried to pursuade my parents. My parents kept telling them "thank-you for our time but we'll go elsewhere." Finily they left. For around six months after that my parents would get phone calls from these attornies asking if they couldn't get back together and work something out that would be mutually agreeable. Finily the conference estate planners got the message and stopped calling. Sadly, with the provision that the children must attend SDA schools to get the benefit of the educational funds set aside for them or the money is diverted to the church, I don't think this is unusual. Because this forum can be read by anyone I will not get into family specifics because it is a private matter. However, I will say this aspect of the SDA church getting into the wills of its members is a very sore spot with numerous people I personally know. Think about it. Why would they want to leave their hard earned lifes savings to someone who has willingly and knowingly turned their back on The Truth only to follow the beast into eternal anilation? If they leave it to the SDA denomnation then maybe the money can at least be used to bring others into the SDA truth, thus hastening up the second coming of Jesus. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1051
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 11:21 pm: | |
Chris, your dilemma regarding what to do for Christmas with your kids is a real concern. Our kids are older, but we've made the decision to have our family Christmas with the boys on Christmas. Our Adventist relatives will come over after sundown, and we'll exchange gifts with them then.
We have decided, after many painful holidays, that we are going to celebrate on Christmas without worrying about trying to make them happy. We cannot, in any case, make them happy; they are completely unreconciled to our leaving the church. This way their gloom cannot cloud our Christmas, and they can honor their Sabbath.
Colleen |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 104
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 8:11 am: | |
Here's what's happened...
I told him I couldn't go to church with him.. I told him the dream. And he's okay with it and does trust how the Lord speaks to me in dreams.
He said that he would check with his parents to make sure it's okay if I stay at their home alone. He mostly wants me to come for Christmas. His family has like 3-4 christmas trees up in their home and they're beautifully decorated. They really get into it. But I made the point to him that someone above made and that was, if we're at my parents' home, they wouldn't expect him to go to church.. Mom would be like "okay, see you when I get back" because she knows I love the Lord and have a relationship that I won't let slide..
Our family actually celebrates Christmas on the weekend before Christmas.. The day doesn't matter. So, on Christmas Day,it gives the smaller families within our large one, the opportunity to be together and not rush to one another's in-laws home and then the other side's home. It works great! And noone really cares that what actual day our savior was born on anyway. There's freedom in celebrating Jesus on any day isn't there?
I sure appreciate the hugs and the support of being proud of me.. It helps me so much right now, Colleen.
PraiseGod, I kinda lost sight that God is helping me through this also.. you're right if he gave me a dream, he won't drop me. Why do I forget that?
C asked me a question about my purpose in Christ last night, and I had to tell him what I am currently experiencing with all this. The Lord is teaching to only be concerned with pleasing Him and be concerned with what He thinks (not C's parents or anyone else) and it's like the Lord has me on this path (that's blowing my mind, frankly) where the lamp is at my feet, maybe only 6 inches ahead of them, and that's all that I can see in front of me. So, yes he's guiding me, but He won't let me see up ahead and it's frustrating b/c it requires a new level of trust and faith that I haven't gone to before. Thanks for reminding me, yet again, that he won't let me fall.
Flying Lady told me the same thing about two weeks ago.. I have to find it.. and start printing these wonderful encouragements from all of you.
Love you guys and Merry Christmas! : ) Why not say it today?? haha! |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 105
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 8:31 am: | |
I forgot!
As for prayer, we pray pretty regularly. We lay on our faces in worship on Friday night sometimes and just worship and cry out to the Lord. He is very thankful that I showed him this way of worship and we both look forward to it. Then after an hour or so, we go out to dinner and last Friday we put up the tree and decorated it and my place.
PraiseGod, yes, he is serious when it comes to praying for a solution. Each conversation about our "issues" we try to end in prayer. As well, we usually begin each one with it also. I mentioned to him that sometimes he is so into making a point that he believes that he pushes out yielding to God's will. And that God's will may be different than what he believes.<among other things> ..
I am considering asking him to meet on this forum and to talk to a couple of people on here.. Perhaps we could meet online at a specific day and time. I will seek the Lord as to if this is the move to make. Frankly, I am about to fly Colleen out here! haha!
Tracey |
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra
Post Number: 293
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 1:12 pm: | |
Dennis,
You don't worry about that inheritance. Jesus said if you leave brothers or sisters or mothers or fathers for His sake He would repay you 100 fold in this life and the life to come. Have some faith brother, He's never failed us yet! He'll supply all of your needs and you can count on that!
;) |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1057
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 10:02 pm: | |
Dennis, I understand your frustration and what you're facing. Praise God that He is our all-in-all!
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 819
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 6:38 pm: | |
Dennis,
I will pray for you and your family. The Bible tells us that all the silver and gold is Gods and the cattle on the thousand hills. So every single penny belongs to God. He will take care of the situation.
Diana |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 820
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 6:51 pm: | |
Tracey,
Here is a BIG HUG from me as well. You are loved dearly, even though I do not know you. I am so happy that God is letting you know, through dreams, what He wants for you. Keep on praying and remember, God did not bring you this far to drop you. He will carry you through this.
He is awesome.
Diana |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 111
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 10:29 am: | |
Thanks Sis! ( like Itold Raven, I call all women of God, sis, since we're in the same family!)
Thank you for your sentiment and words. I love you too!
Last night I had an interesting dream... I saw my entire life.. so many wonderful things that were a part of my life and important to me. Then at the end, I was in a room baking. I baked some wonderful bread that just rose up and smelled delicious! there was so much bread, that it was doubled up on the tray and not even room enough for it all.
Tracey |
Lydell
Registered user
Username: Lydell
Post Number: 659
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 2:27 pm: | |
Tracey, your comment about the lamp at your feet only letting you see about 6 inches reminded me that when we were leaving Adventism and searching for a church the Lord led me to this verse one day:
I will lead the blind by a way they have not known, by unfamiliar paths I will guide them. I will make the darkness light before them, and crooked places straight. These things I will do for them and will not forsake them. Is. 42:16
We are actually in a very good place when we can only follow that 6 inches at a time, it seems. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 825
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 6:48 pm: | |
Since leaving the SDA church I have acquired many sisters whom I love dearly. It is better than when I was an SDA and was called sister... and it sounded so false. There was no warmth there. So little(because you are younger than me) sister I will continue to pray for you and C.
A sister arrived from Riverside,CA just today and I just got a call from her at our younger sister's house. I am going to see her. Please pray for these two sisters. They are unchurched formers as they do not go to church nor can they give up adventism.
God will bring them in, in His time.
He is awesome.
Diana |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 116
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 12:14 pm: | |
I will pray also. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1073
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 10:40 pm: | |
How have things gone with your sisters, Diana?
Praying for you and for them now.
Colleen |
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