| Author | Message | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 152 Registered: 3-2004 |
I may come to regret it, but I just joined CARM and offered to post my story. The reason I say I may regret it is they certainly seem to be a snarly bunch. I'm really not interested in arguing or debating. If there are sincere seekers lurking, though, I will do anything I can to help them find Jesus. Well, off to church. Praise God... | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1083 Registered: 11-2002 |
You are brave. I don't like being put-down and belittled and on CARM I think that would be what I'd get. On here everyone is real nice. I like your word,"snarly". That's a cool sounding word. Maybe I'll get to use it sometime. Good luck and may the Lord guide your hand as you post your words on CARM. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 710 Registered: 3-2004 |
Praisegod, I will be praying for you. From what I have read, about the SDA websites, they can get very uptight when you tell them the truth from the Bible and very combative when EGW is mentioned about being a false prophet. God bless you as you communicate with these people. He is awesome and will help you. Diana | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 185 Registered: 5-2004 |
I post on CARM from time to time. Sometimes I follow it for a few days. then get tired of it and don't even take a peek for weeks. No matter what they say to you, remember that a part of what you say DOES stick somewhere in their memory, and that can only be good. Best of luck! - maybe I'll see you there. -tanya | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 66 Registered: 4-2004 |
I discovered CARM about 3 years ago, long before the SDA board. I've lurked on that board occasionally and I'm deeply saddened by the suspicion, personal attacks, and irrational statements made by some (not all) of the current SDA's who post. Right now, I'm trying to decide if it is worth my energy and time to join their "discussions". My opinion, based partially on my own mindset when I was SDA, is that there is very little probability of budging a committed SDA by engaging in debate on an open forum, no matter how clear the exposition and reasoning. It can be stimulating and it is useful to sharpen one's arguments but I would not expect real results. I haven't decided yet whether to engage. I think the best way to reach people like SDA's is through personal relationships, and given the disinclination on their part to participate in real relationships with the "outside" this approach also is problematic, but I think it has more potential. Dane | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 195 Registered: 7-2004 |
I agree with you Dane. The best thing I have found is to speak my love for Jesus and the Holy Spirit in everyday life situations. It blows their minds because so many of them believe you can't possibly love Jesus and have the Holy Spirit and NOT "keep" Sabbath. (I rarely hear an SDA praise the name of Jesus freely, out loud). | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 224 Registered: 5-2002 |
I don't try to convert those who remain stubbornly cemented in their beliefs in SDAism and Ellen White. I draft my posts with the intent that it may have some impact on those observers who are either on their way in or on their way out of SDAism. Debating theology over there with the regular posters is akin to arguing with my dog. It doesn't accomplish anything, except to frustrate both the dog and me. I'm more interested in what fence-sitting observers are taking away from the discussion, than in what the self-appointed SDA aplogists say and do. I leave them to Christ, who is the only One able to remove their blinders. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 74 Registered: 7-2004 |
Actually my dog may be a better debating partner...Cause my dog shows unconditional love, she's glad to see me no matter what I am saying. I have the same general attitude, I don't post with the idea that I am going to change the mind of any staunch SDAs. I can remember when I had an answer for everything as well, none of the arguments would have swayed me. I am more interested in those that are using the board to explore what SDAs believe. If someone reads that board and still chooses SDAism, at least they shouldn't be in for too many surprises after they join. I know I'm biased, but I am sure that several of the SDA posters could scare anyone out of becoming one. | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 225 Registered: 5-2002 |
Exactly, just try to provide some informed consent to the unsuspecting masses... =) | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 157 Registered: 3-2004 |
Exactly Freeatlast and Ric_B! I believe the Holy Spirit sent me temporarily to CARM for the exact reasons you are stating. I just have no desire to debate and debate and debate. God made us all different and I've no idea why I'm on CARM right now, but I'll stay put as long as the Holy Spirit directs. | ||
| Another_carol Registered user Username: Another_carol Post Number: 259 Registered: 12-2002 |
I have been on CARM for 1 1/2 years now and posted here before. I really loved this forum and became very compassionate for those of you who have come out. I regret that I do not have the time to post here regularly anymore since in the last year I have lost 1/2 of one of my jobs and need to work another job to make up for the other and that makes about 60 hours a week for me. Anyway I wanted to tell you why I post on CARM. I feel very strongly that God had a plan for me as he prepared me over 30 years with what was to happen in the year 1998. I will not go into detail at this time of the whole year but I will say that my son-in-law was duped into SDA in this year and after 5 years of trying to talk to him about the false teachings my daughter decided she could no longer be in a marriage with someone of such outright denial of the Gospel. I have only had a computer since 2001 and when I started to see things such as this forum all my Bible study and thoughts about what in fact this religion was; false, I was without a doubt brought to understand verses such as 2 Peter 2:1 and Titus 3:9-11. I do not debate for the purpose of showing that my religion is the right one I debate to show just as Titus 3 puts it; not about genealogies, contentions, strivings about the law, but rather I debate for the Cross of Christ. In : Matthew 10 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. I post because of His name's sake and whatever words they use against me are no problem for me. They do hurt though because it is not I that the words are going to but my Father in Heaven and that is hard to take, since this is what Jesus said: Matthew 25 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. I do not really think most SDA's think this far. I see most of the time a very selfish attitude and that is I must save myself no matter what but that is not what Jesus says. He says the greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself and to love your neighbor cannot include worrying about your soul while you step on others toes. Anyway I too get discouraged as I post on CARM but something or SOMEONE keeps me there. Another reason I believe I stay is because of something that Jesus said: Luke 15 10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth. I have seen it happen not once but twice in the 1 1/2 years I have been there and for me that is glory. I have reported this to those on the forum who try and discredit me by saying I am only there to place blame on SDA for my daughter's divorce and to them I say shot all the arrows you want because I have a shield of protection and He is with me always even to the end of the earth. I post under the name Chris Carol. I would ask your prayers for another who is now posting and is somewhat disallusioned by another poster who has very strong ideas concerning the writings of Ellen White and her authoritative prophecy which puts her in line with God. God still on the throng and Prayer changes things. I might also say that confessing the Name of Jesus does a lot for ones Life in Christ. Like someone else mentioned; you don't hear Jesus and I made that statement to my son-in-law in the very beginning of this. I said I don't hear Jesus, oh I hear His Name but I don;t hear about what He has done for you. I only hear about what you must do for Him. This is what 1 John 4:10 says: This is love, not that we loved God but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propiation for our sins and that for me totally corroborates with Jeremiah 31:31-34. It is so hard for me to understand why it cannot be seen but then I must remember that those who do not understand are looking at it thru the eyes of someone who has doubts and if you have doubts and try to supress them with knowledge it will not happen. The only way to get rid of the doubt is to lay it at the foot of the cross and that means to surrendar all to Jesus. http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/i/s/isurrend.htm Praise God for His Matchless Grace, Another Carol | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2004 |
I have also joined the CARM SDA Forum. The last couple of days I've read a lot of the posts in different topics. Such confusion! It will take me at least a week to figure out what approach to take. I get the impression that some of the people on CARM really don't want to have an honest, in-depth discussion of anything that threatens their ideas. This is typical of a cultic mentality. Oh well, I'll give it a go. Dane | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 188 Registered: 5-2004 |
Dane, very true, There don't seem to be an true seekers among the SDA people there. They are seeking to prove themselves right, not to discover what God has for them. Scary! And very cultic. I get the same feeling talking to most SDAs as i do from talking to Mormons. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 745 Registered: 3-2004 |
I will be praying for all of you who write on CARM. God bless you as you write there. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1109 Registered: 11-2002 |
I was reading on the VOAF last night. One person posted on there that only 8% of SDA's now reside in the USA. Also, in this post was stated that only 15% of the children in the USA being raised SDA will be SDA as adults. No comment on if these youth will embrase Christianity. It was only SDA sats. Then the post said that 88% (or something close to that) of the new converts to SDA are in developing countries. So, my question is this-isn't this affecting the denomination financially? How is the SDA denomination going to stay financially viable with those numbers? What's happening to the SDA church with its money? A bit sidetrackig here but back when I was a student at an Adventist boarding high school that school had around 420 students-half grils and half boys. It was a vibrant school. Now that very same school has less than half that student body and very few are from the USA. Most are from Asian countries whose parents want their children to get an American education that they can afford. And, Newbury Park Academy was once a vibrant boarding high school which now for years has totally been closed down. And, those are two SDA boarding high schools just within driving distance of where I live. I don't even know anything about the others. What's happening? Is he SDA structure imploding? BTW, Some ofthose who post on that site use these numbers as evidence that EGW was right about the end times. It's really a spooky read. Generally the folks on there who post seem to be extremely fearful. There are several though that present a breath of fresh air and to read their entries is like seeing a pretty flower in a patch of thistles. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 54 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Susan_2, Nice point. I, too, attended a vibrant academy and it has gone through several reverses in recent years. The conference it belonged to could not make a go of it with the school so it was sold to the local church and after only a couple of years they had to shut down the school part of it. The site was then bought back by the conference and they moved some of their offices into the buildings. The last I heard they are using a portion of it to run a day academy for the local kids, K-12. It is spooky that the configuration of the SDA church is starting to look like EGW's description of the end times. Look at it this way, she gets to have at least one prophecy come true. Belva | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 114 Registered: 9-2003 |
Hi, Susan_2, Can you please give me a link to the VOAF statistics about 8% of SDAs in America and 15% of USA SDA children being SDAs as adults? Thanks, Hoytster | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1112 Registered: 11-2002 |
Good morning, Hoytster, I looked up the information for you. I will warn you though about that website. A lot of the disussion is "Sister White says this" and "Sister White says that" and it is a really despresssing forum. Sta-8 is a breath of fresh air on there as is Jeremy and several others. You can get to it by going to http://www.onlie-adventist.org You go to where it says "enter forum" then after you get to the forum part you will see on your left a series of topics to choose from. They are listed in this order; Adventist News, Bble and Theology, Family Life, Prayer Reguest and then Health,Education and Lifestyle, then is listed Singles, and maybe 20 or so more topics to choose from. Go to Health, Education and Lifestyle. You will see it has four pages listed to choose from for this topic. Go to page three. About half-way down the page is an entry by benherdon that gives those stats. S/he lives in Corona, California and the person gives the personal e-mail address as; benherndon@pol.net It gets really funky on there. One person whose name is Won is very devout EGW. He is very dedicated to her and her "health message". I got so frustrated reading his posts that I sent him an e-mail telling him her health-message was founded in her disdain for sex and that she said meat encourages the "animal passions" to be aroused in men. He e-mailed me back telling me he is in his 80's and has been vegetarian since age five and he can out preform most men 20 years younger than him so maybe EGW ment that men should be vegeterian so they can have more energy between the sheets. I have now changed his name from Won to Wang. (Or am I being to tacky forthis forum?) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 945 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, the dropping North American membership is definitely affecting the church's finances. Dropping tithe is a big problem. I just suspect, based upon the hints and limited facts I saw during the Robert Folkenberg debacle resulting in his being fired from the GC presidency, that there are probably several camaflouged but lucrative business deals that help keep the church floating. I remember one report I heard from a non-SDA source who was certainly in a position to know (but I was not able to verify the details of the story from inside the church) that a Catholic organization purchased a satellite uplink station in a certain So American country and gave the SDA church access to it for it net broadcasts, etc. Of course, Adventists were doing reciprocal business with the party who reported this to me. All this is to say, there's much that's hidden from plain sight. I believe the church is deliberately circling its wagons and clamping down on Fundamentals and doctrines in order to get back some control over members, money, etc. Sure, tightening the reigns will result in some attrition, but those who remain will be more openly and knowingly committed to real Adventism. I suspect we'll see an increasing splintering of Adventism. Our prayer needs to be not only for those bound in denominational blindness but also for those who are becoming disillusioned with Adventism but are deceived about the gospel. I see so many of those kinds of Adventists in the Loma Linda area. They think they've found grace, but they're being sucked into universalism, they're still Sabbatarian and convinced it's a sign of accepting Jesus, they see the Bible as open for editing and interpretation, etc. Then there are those who really are looking for truth. And overarching the splintering of Adventism is a Christian community confused about Adventism and unsure what to do for those who leave--or even IF they should do anything for those who leave. Everyone knows that leaving Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses means leaving a cult and finding Jesus, but many Christians wonder why Adventists leave. They just don't understand the deep need people on the fringes of Adventism have for learning the true gospel and for learning to trust the Bible. Praise God that He is in charge, and He has promised us His wisdom and protection and power! Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1118 Registered: 11-2002 |
Have you head Hyveth Williams speek? I've heard she is wonderful. Isn't she a bonified SDA minister? How come she gets to be a SDA minister when the SDA church doesn't ordain women? Is she part of an "independent" SDA church? What gives? Does she teach grace? What about the other SDA distinctives? | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 42 Registered: 8-2004 |
In SDAism, there are 'licensed ministers' and 'ordained ministers'. I think she is one of the former. FWIW, EG White also had a 'minister's license'. I saw a copy of it framed at Elmshaven several years ago. If I recall correctly, the word 'ordained' on it had a line through it. helovesme2 | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 423 Registered: 1-2003 |
We recently received (in the mail) a little booklet on the joy of giving or tithe paying 101 from the conference. I saved it because I noted right away they were misuing texts to advocate old testament tithing pracices in the New Covenant. They quoted Paul as saying those who preach the Gospel should make their livings from the Gospel...as if they preach the Gospel!!! I will dig it out again...but I am sure you all know the commonly misused texts to promote giving. They kept saying that giving tithe keeps you from becoming materialisic and greedy...Oh, they said, "Jesus promoted tithing"...and gave the text, "Woe unto you scribes and pharisees for you tithe your mint..." text. Which is a totally out of context text, he was talking about following the law to the letter but forgetting to love your neighbor. I wonder if any SDA bothered to check out what those texts are really about or if they guilt they experienced by recieving a whole booklet on how you are "really stealing from God" blinded them? | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 229 Registered: 5-2002 |
Under the Mosaic law, carpenters and tradesmen were exempt from the tithe system. This means that Jesus would not have tithed because he had no livestock or crops/produce. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, GC. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 96 Registered: 10-2004 |
Regarding EGW's minister's license: In his book White Washed, Sydney Cleveland has a copy of an Ordained Minister Credentials for EGW with the words "Ordained Minister" not struck out. Susan, I think Hyveth Williams preaches a wide variety of strange doctrines, and I doubt if she is anywhere close to the true gospel of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ's life, death, and resurrection alone! Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 97 Registered: 10-2004 |
Freeatlast, I know, I think that is a very good point that needs to be brought up to Adventists. They say Jesus is our example in all things. Well, Jesus didn't tithe, so why should I? Jeremy | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 230 Registered: 5-2002 |
I asked that on the CARM forum and I got sweet-sounding, etherial, non-specific answers like, "I tithe because Jesus invented it and I love Jesus". Fine for you, but not exactly a Scriptural proof that one must tithe in order to be a continuing member of the body of Christ now is it? Business as usual for the self-appointed SDA apologists. Twist the texts when they suit you, twist your way out of them when they don't. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 99 Registered: 10-2004 |
I would love to ask the SDA carpenters why they don't follow Jesus' example in the area of tithing.  Jeremy | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 751 Registered: 3-2004 |
From my study of tithing, tithes were paid on livestock and agricultural products. So every 10th animal, and every tenth of a pound of produce was Gods. Now, most of us are not farmers or dairy people, so why should we pay tithe??? (BIG smile on my face as I write this) God is awesome in all He does. Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 103 Registered: 10-2004 |
Also, the poor did not have to tithe. And if a family only had 9 goats or less, 9 sheep or less, 9 cows or less, they did not tithe! They only gave the tenth animal. And was even that only on the increase of their herds? Jeremy |
