| Author | Message | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 |
I am new to this forum. I recently stumbled across it 5 years after leaving the Adventist church. It was reassuring to read stories of others who have left due to beliefs. I thought I was the only one! My entire family is SDA. My main reason for leaving was that the purpose of the SDA church was to convert people to SDAs instead of going into all the world and preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I guess I didn't consider myself a non SDA until I changed beliefs about the Sabbath. I took off my Adventist glasses and read the word of God in a new light. I have found a great church home that is very different from how I grew up. My husband and I are involved in our new church and our children have never gone to an SDA church. I have a few questions. How do you handle family? My family said what they had to say awhile ago and we don't talk about our belief differences. When my family visits they pretty much avoid being around on Sundays. When they visit on Saturday they often go to church or do Sabbathy things. I try and make it easy on them. When we visit them they want us to go to church with them. We have gone to church on Sunday when visiting them. It is very hard on them that I wouldn't let my young children go to Sabbath school with them. I don't want to set a precedent. I don't want my children going to a place where they teach that we are lost and are the false prophet. I sometimes watch 3ABN and have heard them refer to what I believe as garbage. Am I being unreasonable? Do you change how you or your family act when around SDA relatives? It's just great to know that I am not alone. I made the journey out on my own. My husband was not an SDA, but I wouldn't listen to his concerns about the SDA church. He stopped talking about it and let SDAs talk for him. How do you handle the cultural differences? I barely knew any non-SDAs until I was in my 20s. I am still a vegetarian and wish I wasn't. I don't know how to go about eating meat at this point though. It was hard just to learn how to touch it and cook it. I praise God that I am free! I thank God that I made it out! It's good to be here. I hope I can contribute some. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 906 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dear U2bsda, welcome to the forum! We are so glad you've joined us--you will be in the great company of people who truly understand what you're experiencing. I'm sure others will have some great responses to your questions as well. As far as our extended family goes, we do not go to church with them. Given our clear statements of belief that we've made to them, we believe it would only be holding out a carrot of false hope if we went to church with them. We also don't change our Saturday or Sunday activites to accomodate them. About the only time we go to SDA churches now is for funerals or weddings. I'm learning to cook meat--I do turkey on Thanksgiving, and sometimes I cook chicken or have hamburgers. Richard still can't eat it, but he does cook and carve it. I know one woman who said the first time she ate meat after Adventism they were having dinner with some friends. She was served some chicken salad, and she just prayed that God would help her eat it without gagging. She said she was able to eat it, and it got easier after that. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you! Colleen | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2004 |
The question about church attendance during visits is an interesting one that we have been fearing. The chance that any SDA relative visiting us would join us at church is very slim. So far none have visited us on a Sunday. I wouldn't have a problem with us attending at an SDA church during our visits since I already spent years filtering messages in oder to find a blessing I have become fairly adept at that. My concern is the message that we are sending if we attend with them, when they avoid reciprocating. On the one hand, I would like my actions to clearly demonstrate grace and acceptance as a testimony to them. And to show by actions that I am not just a "bitter" former. At the same time, I fear that having a situation where we always bend to their beliefs, but never them to ours sends a message that we "accept" somehow the superiority of their beliefs. To avoid this, we have simply planned our trips to arrive in time for Sabbath dinner. At some point we know we will need to face this head on. For now, we are relying on avoidance. | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 171 Registered: 2-2002 |
Welcome U2bsda! It's so exciting to hear from other formers! I think you will find a lot of friendship and love on this forum. Not sure if I understood your post - but sounds similar to my situation. My husband has never been SDA, and early in our marriage he'd try to express some concerns about the SDA church, but of course I was not open-minded at all. He finally just shut up, and I figured it out on my own. Looking back I realize how foolish I sounded defending things I knew nothing about, and talk about defensive! I think we all know about that. The entire time my husband was so calm, and knew what he was talking about. Was a shock to him I think to see how explosive I'd become. Things look so differently when you're on the other side. I have never been vegetarian, but the seafood thing still affects me (although I can eat pork no problem.) I've tried shrimp twice and just cannot even bring myself to swallow it. Same for lobster and crab, etc. I just don't even try anymore. What a blessing your children are not being raised in the church. I think my greatest regret is that my daughter attended SDA schools through 8th grade, and I did not leave the church until she was 16. It has definitely had adverse effects. We do look forward to hearing more from you! Love and prayers to all, Carol #2 | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 148 Registered: 3-2004 |
Itís so interesting that God can use different things as barometers for the hold of Adventism. For some itís a struggle to attend church on Sunday or to go shopping on Saturday. Then we come to the issue of meatÖ. Personally, Iím still vegetarian and rather like it that way. As a very young child, before my mom embraced Adventism, I remember mealtime battles over eating my meat. I just never liked meat. Do we have to give it up just to prove to ourselves or someone else that weíre not under the Old Covenant? I donít think so. If Iím in a situation where it would offend someone, Iím certainly going to eat whatís put in front of me. Iím willing to deal with mission trips and the fact itís probably just as well not knowing what youíre eating sometimes! If given the option between a steak sandwich and a ham, Iíd much prefer the taste of ham. Thanksgiving and Christmas turkey hasnít ever been an issue because thereís always so much other food around. I know with our friends we often go out to eat rather than eating at someoneís house so itís not a problem to get what you enjoy. Have any of the rest of you felt this way or am I the only one retaining something, yet for a different reason, than when Adventist? Praise GodÖ | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 89 Registered: 7-2004 |
Regarding the comment that you're still a vegetarian and wish you weren't, I can completely relate! I had my first meat a little over a year ago, when I was almost 40! So far, I've only had chicken and fish. It's not that I want to eat in inordinate amount of meat, it just makes it so much easier to find decent food (instead of french fries!) when travelling. Anyway, to get started with handling meat-eating, I just kept telling myself what my dad used to always say when I was young and picky about new food, or had trouble swallowing pills--"you can do anything if you put mind over matter." I don't think my dad meant for his advice to be used that way! Also, I noticed that chicken usually takes on the flavor of whatever it's in, and in most cases, the texture is similar to chunks of soy protein. Fish is actually my favorite, because it just melts in your mouth! I truly don't believe I'll ever be brave enough to try red meat, and I think fish and chicken is enough. I do have plans, however, to try turkey for the first time this Thanksgiving! | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 256 Registered: 10-2001 |
U2bsda, Great to have you here. Family is difficult, especially when the continuously tell you how deceived you are, as my mother did yesterday. God gets you through it. I wouldn't worry too much about meat. There isn't any reason to eat it if you don't want to, if you want to, then just go to a restaurant and order some, you might love it! Carol, I didn't know that about you and seafood--lol--shrimp and lobster are my favorites! But I was always a bit rebellious as an SDA, I never believed in the food law doctrine so I ate it any chance I got and my dad wasn't SDA so when I visited him I could eat shrimp and pork and loved it, especially bacon! It's not particularly healthy so being vegetarian is not such a bad idea. As far as church goes, I recently went to visit family and thought I was really going to be cornered into going to the SDA church, feeling obligated since they do go with me on Sunday when they visit. But, again, God came to my rescue and they decided on their own that we wouldn't go because of time concerns. WHEW!! It all works out, one way or another. What it boils down to is that we choose Jesus above family or denomination or anything else and He takes care of us for it. He did say we would be persecuted though, so we take that and give Him praise for it all. Welcome! Sabra | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thank you all for the responses. The meat thing is a big issue with me. My husband's family are big meat eaters and it is difficult when we are visiting. Plus we travel a lot and my options are so limited. Visiting people is also difficult since no one knows what to do when they find out I'm a vegetarian. I want to start eating meat or at least be able to eat something with the meat picked out of it. I grew up with almost zero exposure to meat except for the stories of disease and it being flavored with blood and urine. Right now I am able to touch meat, but I have to wash my hands right afterwards. I want to eat meat but the thought is discusting to me. My husband eats meat and I won't eat something that is meatless if a spoon used to stir meat has touched the meatless food. I don't order soup in restaurants because I am sure it has a meat based broth. I have had meat based broth and lard by mistake on occasion and been fine. I know it is a head thing going on because I have no problem with people eating meat although I don't want my husband eating meat that looks like its original form like shrimp. Anyone sucessfully changed to meat eating when meat discusted them? I now live in a meat eaters world and really want to change. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 709 Registered: 3-2004 |
Welcome U2bsda, You are in a good, safe place here. I cannot help you with the meat, as I was raised, as an SDA, eating meat occasionally. I cannot help you with the relatives, as my relatives who were raised SDA, do not practice it and have not practiced adventism for a long, long time. It still has a hold on them, which is what I do not understand. So, I will pray for you and your meat problem. Until then usually where there is a lot of food there is something that a vegetarian can eat. I have been vegetarian and raised my son as one. So pray about it. God will help you. He is awesome. Diana | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thanks Diana! My family if very SDA, not in a strict sense, but most of them work for the church in some capacity. It is their whole life. I don't want to offer too many specifics because my family is somewhat well known and they may visit here to see what is said. I haven't told my family what I really think about SDA beliefs. They know that I no longer am an Adventist. I have avoided mentioning it because just the fact that I am no longer an SDA is quite painful for them. Maybe I'm giving them false hope though. But they know I have gone to a Bible school through a non-SDA denomination and I help my husband in his ministry. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 50 Registered: 7-2004 |
Welcom U2bsda, Food is such a subjective topic. I say that if you are uncomfortable eating meat, then don't do it, but don't make a big issue out of it. Like Diana just said, there is usually a lot of other things available to eat, and you are certainly accustomed to making a meal out of side dishes. I have a son who has a hard time eating vegies, so when he is home I make sure there are a lot of his favorite dishes that just happen to have diced vegies incorporated, and if I've overdone it he simply picks them out. I know it is the opposite problem, but the theory is the same. Family gatherings can be quite a different thing. I have gotten used to my reletives watching my Joy in the Lord with askance and then having them whisper behind my back. They know that I have a sincere relationship with Jesus, so the usually simply get confused. There are some who, I think, are jealous of my ability to cling to Jesus' grace by faith alone. I'm from a family that is 3rd generation SDA, but thankfully I am not the only one who has studied my way out of the church. There are a few who became overwhelmed by all of the obligations and simply gave up, and at least two others who have studied their way out and are now happy Christians like me. At large gatherings the three of us usually hang around with each other, and the rest look at us resentfully but don't say anything. I personally have no problem attending services with my SDA friends and relatives, should the situation present itself, but it doesn't often come up. I think Colleen mentioned that the only time she attends SDA services is at weddings and funerals. The same goes for me. My recommendation to you is to celebrate your joy in the Lord, let your light shine, and if there are openings to share with these people that you love so much, do so, but do it gently. Remember that they are caught in a Catch 22. Belva | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1080 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear U2B, It's nice meeting you and I hope I can learn from you and that you will possibly even learn a thing or two from me. It seems that the #1 issue that I have to deal with is the relatives and even a few friends and acquantances. I live close to my elderly SDA mother and I am providing her with transportation and most of her human companionship. I do attend the SDA church with her nearly each week. I think I am a thorn in the side to the local pastor and he tolerates me and I tolerate him and we both know we would have no contact ever if it wasn't for my mom. From observation I think I am one of the few people who attends the SDA church that actually pays attention to what is being said from the front. I've thought about that and I've pretty much decided it's the power of the Holy Spirit that puts so many Adventists to sleep through SDA services. My church of choice is a local Lutheran church, which I attend nearly each week. I have been yelled at, told off, belittled, mocked (I don't know why but emotionally being mocked is the hardest on my emotions.), called unkind names and most any other negative reaction you can immagine by my SDA loved ones for turning into a 'Sunday-keeper", which I cannot seem to convince them that I'm not. So, generally I just avoid any and all discussion having to do with Christianity, churches, posting the 10 Commandments in a public place, anything and everything beyond looking out the window and commenting about the current weather. Back to the local SDA church, I generally take notes during the service and as I exit I give them to the pastor. The last time I did this he gave a sermon about how we never can know if we are truly assured of eternal life until we come before the final judgement, the SDA understanding of that subject. As I exited the church after the service I handed him a page of texts saying such things as, "I remember their sin no more", "Go, your sins are forgiven" and so on. As usual, the pastor looked at my notes and told me to come to his office during the week and he'd explain it to me. I have never took him up on his offer because I don't need to. I can read the Bible and pretty much figure out what it means without the Adventist minister tellng me what he thinks it means. So, yes, I totally understand and have empathy with your situtation about the family dynamics. About the meat thing-what does it matter? Why do you even want to eat meat? I think you need to evaluate your reasons for wanting to eat meat? Is it to prove to yourself that you have no lingering idenity to the SDA? Is is because you are truly convinced that meat would provide you with a higher quality of life? Even though I was raised SDA meat was never an issue in my home. We generally purchased our beef by the side and kept it in a freezer. A side of beef will be around 200-300 pounds of beef. We had some neighbors who were/are very devout SDA. These people owned a turkey ranch. Occassionally I'd overhear other SDA's gossiping about this family about how God doesn't approve of Christians raising animals for meat to earn their living. But, in the rural SDA churches you will find SDA's who hunt and fish and raise animals for slaughter. I like to attend the Hare Krishna gatherings and they are vegetarian and use no eggs. I have a lot of friends who have no religious convictions but are devoted hippies and they generally are vegetarian. I have several friends who are Hindu and they are vegetarian. If you don't want to eat meat or even touch meat then don't. If you want to then do. After all, it's your body. I think you've come to the right place here on this forum. It takes a lot of patience to deal with our SDA loved ones and when we vent about it on here we get great empathy. It's lunchtime so I guess I'll go fix me a pastrami and sourkraut on rye and wash it down with a Heinikan. (On a Saturday yet.) BTW, I have never in my life even tasted a shellfish or a lobster or eve tasted clam chowder or a lot of other things. I have no desire to so I won't. Just the thought of puting some of those things in my mouth grosses me out. Ick! | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 65 Registered: 4-2004 |
Hi U2b, welcome! Dealing with SDA relatives can be tricky and frustrating. When we left my parents were quite upset, but fortunately only for a short time. They came to respect our decision and also never tried to interfere with our children. I'm sure that it helped that they were 300 miles away. Part of my wife's family left SDA at the time we did, so the reaction by family SDA's was diluted. I agree with Rick that it is important to not give mixed signals. We attended my parent's church in Michigan a few times but have never gone to the SDA church that my wife grew up in since we left. I think it is especially important to keep our kids far away from SDA churchs. Getting used to the diet change is obviously a personal choice. Nobody says that you have to eat meat. BTW I was raised in one of those rural SDA homes Susan-2 mentioned. We hunted for our meat and loved every bite. Dane | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 215 Registered: 4-2000 |
U2bsda, A hearty FAF welcome! Regarding a meatless diet, my wife and I usually do not eat meat in our home. We never cook it in our home. But I do like tuna fish--especially tuna salad (a boyhood favorite). However, my wife insists that I dispose of the opened container in the garbage bin in the garage immediately (smile). However, we eat a very limited amount of meat while dining out. We have no intention of eating exotic seafood from the ocean floor. Nor do we dine on sausages, steaks, or hamburger. To our delight, the restaurants in our city frequently feature vegetarian cuisine (e. g., deluxe salad bar (also called "serious salad bar"), veggie burgers, cheese-filled manicotti, vegetarian pizza, burritos, & sandwiches, etc.). Our preference is a meatless diet, but we are not fanatical about it. A few weeks ago, our church had a special breakfast on a Saturday morning in honor of various ministries. Our pastors prepared this elegant breakfast for us with all the trimmings (including ham). Every plate was loaded with the same foods and brought to the tables adorned with linen napkins, etc. One of the pastors was sitting next to me. I was brave and ate the ham without others noticing any reluctance on my part. Fortunately, there was enough other food to dilute the ham flavor. I washed it down with orange juice and coffee. Oh well, I told you earlier that I wasn't a fanatic anymore. This fact alone is liberating! Interestingly, our Sunday School teacher has recently changed to a mostly vegetarian diet due to health concerns. He wisely stated that, "Just because the Bible says that you CAN eat meat, doesn't mean that you SHOULD." There is no need to force your taste buds to adapt to foods you do not really enjoy eating. With our newfound freedom in Christ, diet is no longer an issue. We no longer have to prove anything by what we eat or do not eat. Praise God! Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Sheryl Registered user Username: Sheryl Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2004 |
Hi U2B, welcome I don't post much, but did come from a SDA upbringing as a child, and later returned to the SDA as an adult. I had an 18 year break from church, was backslidden as they call it, got really used to eating whatever, so the meat thing was not an issue for me. My family is fragmented and very dysfunctional and don't speak to each other, I think they attend church or cling to the beliefs. What has been hard for me is finding another church to attend and worship in, it still feels strange to me not being in a sanctuary on Saturday, and at times wonder if I am sinning by not keeping the sabbath. I find that other Christians don't fully understand what being in SDA faith involves, or just how oppressive a doctrine it can be, so I really don't have others to talk to about it, I see posts on this forum that remind me I am not alone in separating from a belief system more than God's family per se. To other Adventists it may appear that I have left the remnant flock and in a backslidden and lost condition, but am now feeling more secure in my salvation finally after 2 years. I would have to equate being an Adventist to being involved in "spiritual oppression or abuse" maybe, sounds harsh I know, but that is how it felt. For me now, freedom in Christ, is not freedom to sin and get by with it. That freedom just makes me love Him all the more!! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 730 Registered: 3-2004 |
Sheryl, I am glad to see you posting. Leaving the SDA church is like leaving an abusive relationship in that the church has such a strong hold on its members because of the Sabbath, EGW, not wanting its members to associate with other non-SDA Christians and its many other non-Biblical or misapplied rules/regulations. Thank God we do not have to hold to all that stuff anymore. All we need is Jesus. I love Him and the freedom I have in Him. He is awesome. Diana | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 95 Registered: 7-2004 |
It would be nice if there were such a thing as "exit counselors" who knew well the problems with SDAism. This is a great forum, and it certainly does help. I probably was a bit disillusioned thinking we were going to get into a new church fairly quickly and get support that way. For one thing, we still haven't found a church home, and for another, no one that we've even started talking to seems to understand where we've come from. To most Christians, SDA's are just another brand of Evangelical Christians. I keep seeing Colleen and others saying it takes 2 years to process leaving, but is that delayed because we're not settled in a church and not in a Bible study group? Part of what's so frustrating right now is that it's hard to evaluate churches at this time, because everyone is doing the "Purpose Driven" stuff, and it's such pop psychology, in my opinion. (Although I have to admit it's been good for the kids, because the sermons are incredibly basic!) We want the real stuff, and we just hope these churches that are doing the Purpose Driven stuff aren't ones that are constantly hopping from one church fad to another. I guess the Holy Spirit will have to be our "exit counselor"! | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 177 Registered: 2-2002 |
Yes, wouldn't exit counselors be great!?! I remember when I was leaving I contacted the pastors of my new church (Wesleyan,) for their support and prayers. They were great, but I could always tell they didn't get it. Nobody seemed to understand (except you guys on this forum!) I've been out three years now, and I still don't feel anywhere near the place many of you are.....I actually felt a little nervous/uncomfortable just a few minutes ago when I saw a Yahoo headline that Jerry Falwell plans for "evangelical revolution." Is that sick or what? I still get a twinge now and then of "oh no, maybe they were right, and I've been deceived. Looks like Sunday laws are coming to me!!!" ugh! Thanks for all the comments and support with understanding SDA responses to Paul's writings. I love all of you on this forum! Carol #2 | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 51 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Carol, I know what you mean about questioning the Sunday Law thing. It took me a long time to finally face the fact nobody else in the Christian world is as rabid about worshipping on a specific day as the SDA church is. When I pulled away from the SDA church I started attending chuch by watching the Sunday morning TV preachers. It was several years before I attached myself to a real church. It was then that I finally learned that "Sunday Keepers" weren't locked into worshipping on a certain day but were meeting on a certain day because they were celebrating Jesus' resurrection and because it was convenient and traditional. The church I attend has so many members that they have to hold five separate services and two of them are on Saturdays. If I want to be a "Sabbath keeper" I can do so without attending a SDA church. It's all a matter of choice and convenience now. I've also learned that as the end of time approaches it won't matter so much the day we worship on as who we are worshipping--but then that has always been the case. The world will separate into two camps. Camp 1 will be those who love Jesus, Camp 2 will be everybody else. There are no days involved with that! BTW, I have come to love Paul's writings. You are also so right about the fact that most SDA's treat his writings with suspicion. I had a roomate (SDA) who wouldn't read his writings because she thought he was prejudiced against women. What I find now is that he wasn't interested in getting married, but he was also the only patriarch who said that women should be treated the same as men with regard to their relationship to Jesus. To me, that makes him a pretty good guy! Belva | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 929 Registered: 12-2003 |
It's good to hear from you again, Sheryl. I so completely understand how you and Carol feel. We had the same experience you and Raven mentioned--that of going to a Christian church and expecting people to be thrilled when they heard we had left Adventism. Instead, all we got was, "Oh really? Why did you leave?" A few looked at us with curiosity--our amazement at being alive in Christ seemed to intrigue them. I remember Richard saying several times that to them we probably appeared to be baby Christians--and in many ways we were. He also experessed astonishment that no one understood what we had come through. There are a couple of things that we have come to believe very firmly over the past six years. First, it is absolutely vital that those leaving have at least one person (preferably more, but one will do!) with whom they can talk and ask questions and express their doubts and feelings and be completely understood. That conviction is one of the reasons this forum exists. Second, it is equally vital that even though one doesn't find that deep understanding from other Christians who've never been part of a cult, people leaving Adventism need to worship with other Christians. It's in worshiping and studying the Bible with Christians who have never been twisted by a false prophet that one really begins to see the Bible as a cohesive whole and begins to gain understanding of those previously disjointed passages. We have discovered that because of our own Bible study and background, we have insights the other Christians may not always have. Yet overall, what we have learned from the church we attend has more than made up for the misunderstanding of why and where we came from. What you said, Raven about the Holy Spirit being our counselor--that's really true. Jesus promised He would not leave us comfortless--and He does not. I understand your reaction to the 40 Days of Purpose, Raven--but you're right to wait and see. I also know people for whom the 40 Days really opened windows of understanding. Our church did the 40 Days as an optional Sunday School class. We didn't take it, but I do think it's possible that some of the churches you're visiting might still offer sound Bible study after the program is over. One other thing--Richard and I are quite passionate about the fact that formers need to be involved in sound, inductive Bible study. We were not taught to study inductively as Adventists. If we had been, we would have discovered the truth about Adventism long ago! If you can't find a good inductive study at your church and don't feel equipped to do your own, try finding a local Bible Study Fellowship or Community Bible Study in your area. They are non-denominational, and they really do open up Scripture. I'm sure you've read Dd's posts here about her BSF studies and how deep and inightful they have been. You're also welcome to use the studies posted on this website that we have done over the past five years at our Friday night FAF studies. When those doubts come, Sheryl and Carol, know that those are completely normal and we all have gone through those. When they happen, turn to the Bible and pray that God will protect your heart and mind in Christ Jesus. Pray that He will keep you grounded in reality and truth and continue to guide you to Himself and His will and to truth through His word. Ask Him to guard you from deception. He is faithful--He will not abandon you. He has not brought you to this place only to drop you into the abyss of despair and doubt and loneliness. He is faithful to complete what He begins in us! (And Raven and Ric--I continue to pray that you will find the church where you all can grow and flourish!) Colleen |
