| Author | Message | ||
| Theycallmegrace Registered user Username: Theycallmegrace Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 |
I just wanted to thank everyone who responded to my first posting. What a nice, warm welcome. It means so much because I have felt very alone at times with all of this. Now I know someone (several ones!) out there understand. Pheeki, I so relate to your story, and it is such encouragement to me. My husband, also, plays a big part in the music at our SDA church (as have I). He was very hard on me at first and very angry as I studied and came to the conclusions that much of SDA theology is wrong. I tried to be tactful, but I guess there is just no way, and I try to remember how close-minded I too have been in the past. It helps me be patient with others. It's put a major strain on our marriage and I see how some wind up in divorce (a "warning" I have already been given by sda friends along with the probability of wayward children, drunkenness, and even death). That would be the saddest thing of all and just what Satan wants. By God's grace, that will not happen to us. We've already been through so much together. We're not about to let this tear us apart. We've decided, at least for now, not to talk about it anymore. He is open to me attending other fellowships (which I did this past Sunday with my kids with our neighbors- WOW- the joy in their praise music, the grace in their message! It was such a blessing!) I also continue attending the SDA church with him, and will continue to do so as long as he wants. I think he is in denial about some of what adventism is about. He never believed it all but doesn't think it is necessary to believe these things (Ellen White, 1844, sanctuary doctrines, eating and drinking stuff, etc.) in order to be a member. I think time is my friend here. The Lord will lead him in His own time and His own way as He did me. After all, I was in it and believed it fervently for eight years, many of you much longer, but it's all in God's time, not ours, His grace, not our sudden "revelations". Our adventist friends are really flocking around him now. You probably know what I'm talking about. Solidifying his beliefs, keeping him included and "needed", asking him to give his testimony in Sabbath school, things like that. Please just continue to pray for us. There is peace and love in our home right now, and I just praise God for that. However, if he continues in adventism and we can't slowly work our way out of it, things are going to keep resurfacing. I'm hopeful right now that my husband will be pulled out by God's grace. He's just a much slower-paced person than I and I have to respect that. Thanks again, for making me feel at home and I look forward to our continued sharing and encouraging of one another. Grace | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 83 Registered: 5-2004 |
Grace, I don't know how long you've been studying this, but your husband sounds like mine did. He actually told me recently that when I first started to study...and "spout" my incredulous new discoveries...that he was terrified and wondered if I was about to leave him. Looking back, it wasn't until I backed off from reading every single thing that I found (100's of pages of studies) to him, and we started our small group study with friends in Galatians...that things started to click for him on his own. Now, he's totally with me on everything...but it took 3-4 months for him to process it. Just keep praying that God will reach him. God knows each of our "speeds" and "triggers" and no matter how limited our views are in the scope of eternity, God knows and His plans won't be changed. Bless you for taking this scarry step on your own, and for following your heart and God's call to you! He will never leave you, nor forsake you. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 958 Registered: 12-2003 |
"Grace"--thanks for sharing your situation with us. You're doing a very courageous thing, and I believe you're wise to just keep quiet for now. The difference in you will be really visible to your husband, and your repsect for him will also be powerful We'll continue to pray for you and him. Colleen | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 219 Registered: 7-2004 |
Grace, Same story here for me. My husband is also behind in his travels in understanding the New Covenant and letting go of Sabbath. The best advice given to me was from some wonderful, God-fearing non-SDA Christian girlfriends (who understand Adventism and their unbiblical, cultish doctrines). They told me to allow my husband to be the spiritual leader in the home as I continued to stand firm and listen to the Holy Spirit. That meant going to SDA church but at the same time studing, sharing ever so quietly and letting Jesus live in me. Through the changes in my personalities because of my love for Jesus, my husband has slowly understood. It has been a long journey. I really believe it is sometimes better to live our faith then preach it or stuff it down someone's throat. We still attend a SDA service (no SS just a "liberal" praise and worship service) but do not "keep" the day holy as we were raised (swim meets with the kids, snow ski, laundry, family afternoon at the movies...). I overheard him telling someone the other day, "We celebrate Sabbath everyday together as a family...it's not about a church service...it's about our relationship with Jesus and each other..." Hang in there, Grace...God will use you through your support and love. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 426 Registered: 1-2003 |
I am so glad my testimony can encourage someone. It has not been easy. I too decided that to keep familial peace, I would attend the SDA church with my husband, though I didn't believe what they were preaching, I did love my husband's music, the praise team he and another guy were leading was awesome and I would shout hallelujah, etc. and the SDA would just look at me...you know, you can't be moved by the Spirit if you've let Ellen White replace the Holy Spirit in your life! Anyway, as I sat there observing, with my blinders off...I noted several things. #1 they have given the glory and honor due to Christ to a day of the week. All I heard was, "Thank God it's the Sabbath." "We would self-destruct without the Sabbath!" and various other Sabbath worshipping statements, very little about Jesus or just a sidenote about him. Sad. #2-The pastor's talk in circles and ususally their sermons make no sense and don't have a point. Have you ever noticed that? They also use half-texts and proof-texting and out of contexting texts. As I sat there, the Holy Spirit would alert me to these misrepresented texts...it was uncanny...every time I would feel this little twinge, I would look up the text and see how they misused it! Deuteronomy 14 comes to mind. We heard an entire sermon on tithing (which by the way we heard a sermon on tithing nearly every week) taken from Deuteronomy 14 and the guy used some obscure translation (can't remember the name) and only quoted portions and skipped around to use it to make his point but never read the entire text which blows SDA theology right out of the water. God actually tells the Isrealites that if the place to celebrate in front of the Lord is too far away, to sell the livestock, etc. take the money and buy food and alcohol and celebrate! After a while, I would enjoy the song service then when the sermon started I would open my bible and read and tune the pastor out. #3 There seemed to be a lot of fear in that congregation. I think people knew deep down that they weren't perfect (sinners!) but were afraid their fellow members might find out about them. Think about it...that is why most SDA don't really let you in their lives and keep you at arms length. This is evident by the polarization the Sabbath causes. Not only does it cause division between other denominations but it is also a dividing line in the church. The conservative Sabbath keepers do not readily associate with the liberals, and it seems everyone had their own ideas how to observe it. I know my sister-in-law stopped having us over because our Sabbath rules were far more lax than hers. For example, her kids could get the horses out but not saddle them, they could walk them slowly but not ride them or make them sweat. They couldn't play with balls or jump on the trampoline but could take a walk. They weren't allowed to talk about secular things with my kids or swim, but could stick their feet in the water...the list goes on. #4 In spite of the GC denying the Clear Word being a bible, it was used as one in the congregation I attended. I saw that Melashanko guy use it in his sermon when he visited and most of the deacons carried it. #5 The people were more concerned with dinner than the sermon. The pastor took the clock out of the church and by the time he actually got to start his sermon, we weren't getting out until 1:00 some days. Well, this totally angered some of the ladies, one in particular was in the foyer one Sabbath at about 1230 cussing her head off about the pastor saying her dinner was going to burn. When she left, I turned to another member who witnessed the outburst and said, "What is up with that." and she said, "You know us SDA, we like to eat." I attribute this also to the lack of the presence of the Holy Spirit...I have been in church services at the non-denom church and I looked up and it was 2 and a half hours later...but it seemed like only a few minutes...know what I mean? Anyway, to make a long story short...the other guy leading the music with my husband (he had only been SDA for a year or so and was very Spirit filled, and was very non-SDA acting) he made the conservatives mad and the church split over drums. This is how the Lord delivered us out of that church, it made my husband so mad at how they treated his friend, he quit as their musician. They still try to get him back but so far (and it will be a year in December) he hasn't succombed to them. He has played once in this other SDA church (and experiment by the Texas Conference)...it's called the Cowboy Church and they put out postings in the newspapers saying "If you are a former SDA, come try us, we're different." and in a way they are different, they still heavily promote the Sabbath (really, isn't that the hook that pulls them in anyway? they are disenfranchised but still believe the Sabbath is binding on them and while they may not believe the whole SDA package, they are tied to the Sabbath and feel they cannot worship with the Babylonians, and so they come back.). Anyway, the people at this church are warmer than the typical SDA assembly. They wear jewelry, blue jeans, serve meat (not pork of course) at their potlucks and sort of preach the New Covenant. One might almost forget it is an SDA church except that little tithe envelope in front of you in the pew...and the heavy Sabbath worshipping that goes on there. I have heard other SDA's in the traditional churches refer to the cowboy church as the "reject" church, maybe that is why it is warmer, the people know what they really are there instead of pretending to be perfect. I attended this church 2 or 3 times with my husband and they actually paid him (on Sabbath) for playing the music. I nearly fainted. Not only did he get recognition and apprieciaton but they paid him! They asked him to be permanent music minister but thankfully he turned them down because he is too busy with school. We haven't found a church yet because my husband isn't comfortable going to church on Sunday. But, a miracle occurred that I never thought would, as I mentioned before, my kids are out of the SDA school system and believe me, both my husband and I can tell a difference. The kids are so different in the non-denom school, they are actually nice and friendly and much more disciplined than the SDA kids. Plus you don't have all that respect of person's going on...you know, the monied people's kids run the show and can do no wrong. I am hoping this is the key for my husband that opens the entire box on Adventism. I hope that seeing the difference in the kids and the education system will get him to thinking that there is definately something wrong with SDAism. By their fruit you will know them and their fruit is rotten to the core! | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 83 Registered: 7-2004 |
I would have to think that being part of a "reject" church would force you to understand grace better. It sounds kind of like a halfway house, a "comfortable" place to transition between the SDA and non-SDA worlds. I guess time will tell whether it is promotes more transition back to traditional SDAism or out of SDAism. My first thought was that this would determine how long they stayed open. But then my cynical side kicked in and suggested that the amount of tithe generated would be a better predictor! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 964 Registered: 12-2003 |
Pheeki, thank you so much for sharing your observations and insights. How interesting! And how awesome the way God is leading your husband, also! Ric, I had to laugh at your comments. Yup, my cynical side agress with yours. Churches like the "reject church", though, do tend either to take themselves clear out of Adventism and into Christianity (i.e. Clay Peck and Richard Fredericks), or they compromise because they can't really look at the foundation of Adventism and instead try to superimpose grace on false doctrines. It's interesting to me how many similar congregations are springing up--all the while the GC is battening down the hatches and tightening up the requirements. I do think a LOT of people are moving closer and closer to a crisis of conscience. But isn't that how God works in us?! Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 110 Registered: 10-2004 |
Pheeki, yes isn't that Deuteronomy 14 passage great? ;-) I especially like the wording of the old King James Version: "And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household," (Deuteronomy 14:26 KJV.) So they were supposed to spend the money on whatever their soul lusted after, eat meat, drink wine and beer, and rejoice! Hehe, I wonder why the SDAs don't practice "tithing" according to the Biblical tithing system? ;-) Also, Deuteronomy 12 is also very anti-SDA! "Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee:" (Deuteronomy 12:15a KJV.) "And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh. Observe and hear all these words which I command thee, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee for ever, when thou doest [that which is] good and right in the sight of the LORD thy God." (Deuteronomy 12:27-28 KJV.) In order that it may go well with them, they had to eat meat, which was what was "good and right in the sight of the LORD thy God"! And Ellen said that it destroyed the intellect, the morals, etc.! Jeremy | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 58 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Colleen, I'm sure you have read "The Purpose Driven Life." In that book Rick Warren mentions that God uses our hurts most of all when we need a base for outreach to others. A crisis of conscience really is a hurt, isn't it. I've noticed the fact that nearly all of us here have a burden regarding the SDA church. In my case it has to do with all of the pain I went through when I learned about the underlying falsehoods of the SDA leadership. I'm convinced that is the motivator for most of us. I'm angry that because a few people at the top have decided to perpetuate the lie millions of trusting people are in the position of living in fear of their eternal disposition. Jesus didn't die so that we could live in doubt. He died so that we might have abundant life--confidence in the eternal outcome of our lives. We need to remember the victory we have all received through the grace of God, and that our pain can be a springboard for introducing that victory into the lives of those still living under the pall of Adventism. |
