| Author | Message | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 72 Registered: 7-2004 |
Within the last 2 weeks, I've finally made the transition. I started to attend a large Presbyterian church on SUNDAYS that is just walking distance from me. The service was wonderful, the choir was absolutely dynamic, and the minister is a very caring man of God (the minister, believe it or not is also a former sda). I explained to my mom (who is a staunch sda) about my new found beliefs. I think my dad knows too, but fortunately, they aren't saying very much. My question is this, is it normal to experience "Sabbath Guilt". Sometimes there is a little nawing voice in the back of my mind that says "maybe they (the sda's) are right". What if I am putting my salvation on the line? I know I'm doing the right thing because I've studied the New Testement and I do believe by what I've read that the sda church has a lot of false doctrines, and I do believe that the Bible is the true inspired Word of God. But sometimes, its hard to get that little voice out of my head. Is this just the results of being brainwashed all those years? Has anyone experienced this? | ||
| 33ad Registered user Username: 33ad Post Number: 117 Registered: 10-2004 |
Vchowdhury1 Praise God! Just jeep walking with Jesus and He will lead you. Those "Sabbath Guilt" trips! I think that most of us formers have had such feelings at one time or another. It's part of the indoctrination we received, and it's hard to get over it. There is something you must grasp though. There is no sin in attending church on Saturday, Sunday, or any other particular day of the week. As long as you understand that in terms of the New Covenant, no one day of the week is more 'Holy' than another. We are not "Sabbath Keepers" nor "Sunday Keepers". We keep the Law of Love for Jesus Christ written on our hearts, and we worship Him in Word and in Truth every day of our lives. (I must admit I still find the need to 'chill-out' on a Saturday, but I don't perceive it to be 'holy' in any way more than Sunday, when I Fellowship with my brothers and sisters in Christ at the House of Prayer. Summing up, don't get paranoid over the "Guilt" feeling. It is only the accuser of brethern working to discourage you. Make new friends in your new church home, hang out with good christians on Saturday outings, camping, visiting, whatever. And yes, make that shopping trip one Saturday, or mow the lawn. It helps break the ice. God Bless Loren | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1116 Registered: 11-2002 |
Loren. I couldn't have said it better. Valerie, How fortunate for you the minister is a former SDA because then you can feel comfortable going to that minister with any questions and concerns you may have and those issues will be undestood by that person. Good going, girl! | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2004 |
Vchowdary, I thought I was the only one! It seems that everyone else always has it all together. I think the problem with me is that I am just a kind of doubting myself kind of person (maybe the SDA upbringing helped with that) So I strive to look for the truth. I am attending a "Sunday" church that I LOVE. However, I am unable to tell my staunch SDA mother. I just can't do it. I think her approval is still an issue with me. However, I now look at the SDA's like a cult because they are SO similar to Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons in their exclusiveness, etc. I see no vibrance, evangelizing, drawing people to Jesus, in their church. They try, but are hindered by the weird doctrine. I just don't think that was Jesus' intention for us. But like you, in the back of my mind I wonder if they are right somehow. Even though my head (and the Bible) tell me differently. I think it is the years of brainwashing. Sometimes in Sunday school, like yesterday, a verse they are using will pop up, that the SDA's use to prove their point. Yesterday they used the verse about the dead hearing Jesus at His coming and will arise. Well, I had to sit with my teacher and 3 or 4 others to figure out how it didn't mean "soul sleep". Just hang in there, and trust Jesus to reveal "truth" to you! Bb | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 209 Registered: 7-2004 |
Valerie, Hang on to Jesus! Guilt is such a marvelous invention.  So many people use it in so many different ways. Our worst enemy is ourselves because we then battle the guilt of experiencing the guilt ("..why can't I give up feeling guilty?" I feel that a great deal, too). You are NOT feeling anything out of the ordinary. I suspect even formers who have been out of the mainstream for years still battle the occasional twinge now and again. As Susan said, what a blessing that the pastor is a former SDA. I would love to go to that church with you! Take advantage of him and share with us insights you glean. You GO girl! | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 210 Registered: 7-2004 |
After my post above I had a question that made me wonder... Did the founding SDA fathers (with the help of EGW) actually determine the "best way" to build a denomination? In other words, did they set out to deceive, control, manipulate intentionally? Really. When you think about it, it seems so obvious (the cradle to grave indoctrinationn -the education system, scaring members into fearing others outside their denomination) it makes you wonder if they were sinister enough to plan it all out! But could they really have thought it through far enough into the 21st century to have set their goals to have the SDA church what it is today? OR did it all just happen like this overtime? The whole concept of how so many people, for so long, could be duped blows my mind...Is it my own pigeon-holed way of thinking or does anyone else wonder how this could be? I guess Valerie's Sabbath guilt question just got me to thinking too much...It angers me to think that an organization can affect so many of us with guilt. It is obvious that Jesus would NEVER want us to experience guilt. Why would He have suffered so much for us to then make us experience so much guilt? It is crystal clear He loves us too much to want us to carry around so much guilt! GIVE ME JESUS! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 94 Registered: 10-2004 |
I was just thinking about this the other day! I don't know if it was deliberate "planning," but I think there definitely was satanic/demonic influence in setting up the cult the way it's set up. They make the members think they can't go to church on Sunday or they'll go to hell, and most don't even have friends who are non-SDA. And they aren't supposed to read non-SDA stuff. That way, the SDA members won't hear the Gospel or get out of the deception or the cult! Sure seems like satanic influence to me. Jeremy | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 69 Registered: 4-2004 |
I left SDA 22 years ago and it was quite a few years before I lost the "Sabbath guilt" completely. Eventually I realized that "feeling guilty" and "being guilty" are two very different things. Our faith is not to be based on "feelings" but real evidence. The evidence clearly shows that under the New Covenant there is not "holy day" to keep. Dane | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 943 Registered: 12-2003 |
Valerie, I am so grateful to read your post! The guilt you feel is probably nearly universal among those of us who had to deliberately move away from Sabbath observance to letting Jesus be our Sabbath rest. Richard and I both struggled with it for months. Our heads knew the truth, but our hearts had electriyfying moments of doubt and fear. The indoctrination that the Sabbath is the mark of those who REALLY love Jesus and that Sunday is the "mark" of those who reject truth is deep and profound. Even complete falsehood shapes and holds our hearts when we learn it with sincere belief and trust. Deception is a powerful thing, and only a miracle of God can break its hold on a heart. (And, by the way, sincere deception can lead us away from Jesus. Our sincerity does not make us righteous. A great analogy for this phenomenon I heard once was this: suppose you truly and sincerely believe that eating a banana will prevent smallpox. You believe that a smallpox vaccination isn't necessary even though an outbreak might occur, because YOU believe that a banana will do the trick. Your sincerity will not prevent you from getting smallpox if you're exposed to it. Just so with the truth about Jesus and salvation.) Prayer and going back to the Bible are the only antidotes I know to these doubts and fears. God is faithful, and He will put your heart at rest. In obedience to the truth, however, lies freedom and confidence. I remember when we finally reached the point that the pangs of guilt stopped bothering us, we reached the place where we intentionally decided that if our salvation rested in Jesus alone, we had to purposely act on that fact. We prayed and told God we wanted to follow just Him and trust just Him, and we asked Him to keep us grounded in truth and to keep our hearts at rest. I remember the first time I actually did laundry on "Sabbath" just because I wanted to act on my convictions. I remember the feeling of liberation I experienced as I started that washing machine! The pangs of guilt are completely normal--one doesn't debrief from a cult (let's be honest here!) without emotional and mental trauma from the necessity of replacing deep seated deceptions with Truth. But the Bible is God's living and active word, and it changes us by the power of the Holy Spirit who both inspired it and brought our spirits to life. God is faithful to complete the work He begins in us! Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1117 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jeremy, What you wrote about not being allowed to read Christian literature from non-SDA writers is so true. The ABC and the Annoying (non)Facts have huge book, tape, video, DVD, CD, tract and pamphlet literature available. Their cataloges come regurally in the mail. The monthly SDA magazines such as the Review are filled with ads for the literature to purchase. Whenever a non-SDA Christian comes out with a profound and inspiring book very soon thereafter the SDA will have a book on that same topic only with the SDA understanding of the topic. SDA's generally are greatly discouraged from frequeting the local Christian bookstore. Soon after the terrorist attacks on 9-11-01 I bought a wonderful little book about staying encouraged during rough times written by the daughter of Billy Graham. I don't recall her name right now. My mom saw me reading it. Then when she asked to see the book and handed it to her she refused to even look past the front cover and made a comment that I shouldn't be filling my mind with religious trash written by a "Sunday-keeper" because by the very fact that the person "keeps Sunday" there is no righteousness in that person. It honestly will give me a stomach ache, this horrible attitude of SDA's, it's not Christian and if I let my mind fixate on it or get stuck thinking about it I get a stomach ache. There is no righteousness in it. | ||
| 33ad Registered user Username: 33ad Post Number: 118 Registered: 10-2004 |
Valerie, I always pray for protection on the road before I leave my driveway. I remenber saying my prayer one Saturday before I left for the mall (Two years after I had last set foot indside an SDA church) and thinking to myself, "Will God protect me now today on the Sabbath while going shopping?" That's the curse of the years of mind control! We have to banish those thoughts with the confidence that we know that our 'Redemer livith', and that He has set us free! God Bless Loren | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 73 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thank you soooo much everyone for your warm and caring advice to me regarding "Sabbath Guilt". I am so happy to be apart of this very caring, Christ-like forum . Its not easy, but because of "Sabbath Guilt", I was beginning to feel very depressed. And it seems like the guilt and depression got stronger when I was sitting in church last Sunday. I was beginning to tell myself, "Is all this worth it"? But yes, it is worth it! Sometimes there comes a point in time when you just can't stomach deceit anymore, and you have to stand up to what you believe in your heart is true. And, God does NOT lie! Whatever he says in the Holy Scriptures IS the TRUTH. I truly believe what is says in Romans 14:, Colossians 2:16, etc, etc. And I stand firmly on the New Covenant. EGW and the sda church try to make God a liar. To me this is reprehensible! God says that in the last days the mark of his people will be the Holy Spirit, EGW and the sda's say that it will be the "Sabbath". And of course I can sight numerous examples of EGW vs the Holy Scriptures, but we all know these already. I think that a lot of my depression and guilt came from the fact that I had to break the news to my parents (who are staunch sda) that I am now going to attend church on Sundays. And, like I mentioned before, they haven't really said anything yet. My mom tried to argue with me a little, but I kept quoting New Testement scriptures regarding the new covenant, and of course she kept quoting the "10 commandments" (I think thats the only scripture the sda's know). The reason why I had to tell my parents was because they pick up my 11 year old son from school during the week and keep him for several hours before I can pick him up after I get off from work, and I don't want my son to feel that he has to deceive his grandparents. I want him to also be proud & honest about his beliefs. So, as they say, I had to just "bit the bullet". It didn't go as bad as I thought (if it were not for my son, I probably would silently go to church and Sunday, and not say a word to my parents. I do love them very, very, much, and the last thing that I want to do is hurt them). I thought there would be yelling and screaming and crying, but I was met with little argument, especially when I started quoting scripture. Do sda's ever read the New Testement? How can they miss all those scriptures. It seems like they NEVER read the writings of Paul, or any other of the apostles. Oh, well. Please, everyone please continue to pray for me that I might be strong, as I will continue to pray for all of you | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 74 Registered: 7-2004 |
33ad, you are right. A couple of months ago my son and I were on our way to Disneyland on a Saturday. Before we drove off, he prayed for God's protection. I felt guilty about about praying. All I can think of was that God is not going to protect us because we're going to Disneyland on the Sabbath! I guess when you used to be a member of a cult, the mind control that was implanted in you is very hard to shake. But in time, with the help of God, I will shake it. --Valerie | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 182 Registered: 6-2004 |
I had the old sabbath guilt trip when I first left. I was actually trying to "balance" the days if that makes any sense, trying not to do too much on Saturday or Sunday (just in case I was wrong) but as time went one I realized this was pointless and I just let it fade away. I do not feel guilty in the least anymore, I know my salvation is not in keeping a certain day but in Jesus alone. | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 228 Registered: 5-2002 |
Vchowdhury1, don't forget that you were not only not keeping the Sabbath day holy, you were also attending (and spending your money on) a "worldly amusement" and Ellen condemned those as well. You might as well have taken your child to a saloon. Besides all this, you were traveling on the Sabbath day and so your cup of rebellion must be filled to overflowing (sarcasm). Did you buy gas? Did you buy food? Did you buy your Disneyland tickets on Sabbath or before? The list of questions goes on and on and on and on... Do you remember being told that angels would wait outside the movie theater until you came back out so you better hope that the theater never catches fire while you're inside, you would be without your guardian angel's protection? It is no wonder some of us refer to this organization teachings as those of a cult! | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 75 Registered: 7-2004 |
Freeatlast, your comment about the traveling on the Sabbath to "wordly" entertainment like Disneyland and buying food, etc., made me laugh out loud Also, your comment about "my guardian angel being outside the movie theatre waiting for me to come out" brings back a flood of memories. My mom used to tell us EXACTLY that! I guess all of us received the same mind control. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1121 Registered: 11-2002 |
And, get this one-I was told if I ever see a SDA coming out from a bar that I am to assume the noble SDA was in there wittnessing Gods truth to the lost who were in there drinking. We were to never assume a noble follower of the SDA truth would actually go into a bar for a drink. At the same time we were told only a few very elect could be trusted with the task of going into a place of evil to share Gods truth, thus implying that me and all my friends were excluded from getting to bar hop for the purpose of wittnessing. Did any of you others ever hear that one? Yes, it does seem like we all got the same horrifing stories. I even remember great discussions about if it is o.k. or not o.k. for us to go into the Haunted Mansion at Disneyland. It was finil decided it was o.k. because at Disneyland the sorcerery isn't real, just like vege-meat isn't real and the SDA mindset is if it's fake then it's good but if it's the real thing then it's to be avoided, even if it's the real gosple. So, I got to go into the Haunted Mansion. Please, all of you when you go to Disneyland just have fun with the kids. No need for a big theoogy discussion about if or not the rides are o.k. before God. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 750 Registered: 3-2004 |
I can honestly say, I never felt guilty about breaking the SDA Sabath. I would go dancing on Friday nights. I never stopped to think about why I did not feel guilty. Maybe it was because of other things in my life which deserved feeling guilty over and I did, and thank God He redeems our past. But every once in a while, I get the thought, am I doing the right thing and God tells me to just read my Bible, pray and follow Him, so I do. Thank God, He started pulling me away from adventism a loooong time ago and when I quit going to the SDA church, I had no guilt. He had prepared me a long time ago. I did not have parents to tell about my leaving the SDAs, only my sisters and brothers and they were all very nice about it. Even my SDA friends had been nice about it. So, I can truly say God is awesome. Diana | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 429 Registered: 6-2002 |
What a very appropriate subject for this forum!! In my opinion, "Sabbath guilt," "Sabbath envy," and (conversely) "Sabbath conceit" are the essential foundations of this core belief. Put more blatantly, the point is to make everyone feel "left out of the truth" if they don't keep the day, make those that leave feel "like traitors, or lost" because they stopped, and allow those who stay with the SDA church feel "superior, in every way" to those who don't keep the day. In my studies, I have come to believe that this was always at least a subconscious modality of belief throughout the church's history. One should, in no way, deny that these feelings of "Sabbath guilt" exist and are normal. That is how the teaching and culture has set you up to feel. Leaving any deeply ingrained belief or behavior pattern is always painful. I would be more surprised if most ex-SDAs said that they DON'T feel "Sabbath guilt." Some won't feel it, but I would think those cases would be in the minority. Just my opinions. Jerry | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 183 Registered: 6-2004 |
I remember riding with a friend to the famous camp meetings in Orlando. There was a toll top pay on the way so that was somehow overlooked, and the distance we drove was somehow approved, as well as taking a tour of some tourist trap (yes, there was a charge) to fill a time slot in the same day. How is it that it's ok to spend money on the Sabbath in these circumstances? Somebody pour me another! How did I ever get involved in this cult? :-) |
