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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1008
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 4:52 pm: |     |
I agree with you re: the pre-trib rapture being a modern example of holding to a tradition, Dane. It's a relatively new understanding, and I can see many reasons why it has become widespread--but I don't see absolutely clear evidence for it in the Bible. I'm not saying it can't be so, but I just am not personally convinced.
I also see the salvation of Israel as being unrelated to the timing of the rapture.
I also agree that we depend upon many of the early Father's definitions and interpretations...not all of them, but many. The ones we embrace, I see being supported in Scripture. We owe the early Fathers a debt of gratitude for the careful thinking and scholarship they did that codified heresies and doctrines--besides the historical records of the early church they have left us.
Colleen
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Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra
Post Number: 280
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 6:05 pm: | |
Dane,
My point in all of that was that Israel has to be provoked to jealousy by something, and in the parable of the lost son the older son was jealous about his younger brother going into the feast and he makes the statement that he is the one who has kept all of the commandments.
The church has been here for 2000 years and they aren't jealous of us yet.
I do feel that the rapture is a reward for the faithful. The fact that only one out of seven churches seems to go and the fact that only Enoch and Elijah were translated seem to support that.
That was just one of many, let's try another:
Parable of the 10 virgins
Matthew 25: We have 10 virgins all with their lamps waiting to meet the bridegroom. The foolish ones take no oil with them. I think the Oil represents the Holy Spirit. I believe that 5 of these virgins are Jews and 5 Gentiles. The Jews were intended to be the light of the world but they let their lamps go out in their unfaithfulness to God. However, God always had kind intentions toward the nations. Even though he chooses one nation from among all the nations in Genesis 12:1-3 by graciously raising up Abraham and his descendants, Godís promise to Abraham included "in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed" (Gen. 12:3).
It is also true that Israel is often viewed as a light to all of the other nations. For example, Jonah, the reluctant prophet of Israel, is sent to witness to the wicked Assyrians. In addition, the prophet Isaiah reminded the nation of Israel that its Messiah, the Servant, was to be a light to the other nations as well (Isa. 42:1-6; 49:6).
The Gentiles received the annointing of the Holy Spirit and became the light to the world. They are all looking for the Bridegroom, the Jews for the first time and the Gentiles for the second. They all slumber and sleep but when the bridegroom comes,in the midnight hour, the ones with the oil go out to meet Him while the others go to buy more oil, while they're gone, the wise virgins enter into the wedding and the door is shut.
The foolish virgins say, "Lord, Lord, open to us!" But He says, "I don't know you." They were all 10 waiting for Him. They were all invited to the wedding. Why doesn't He know these 5? Because they don't have the one thing they need to get into the door. "I am the Door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved."- John 10:9 They don't have Jesus. They don't have the robe. They don't have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, they don't have any oil left.
They are told to go and buy more oil. I believe this is referring to selling all that you have falsely put your trust in and following Christ.
Rev 3:8 to the church of Philadelphia, "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have little strength, have kept My word and have not denied My name. verse 10 Because you have kept My command to perservere, I will also keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up hither!"
The blessed hope of a rapture has been taught since Paul. There are many hidden passages that seem to support it. The Song of Solomon is a strong one on the relationship of Israel and the church, the differences and seems to speak of a rapture and second coming.
Elijah was caught in a whirlwind, the Psalms have many passages that seem to point to it.
I still believe it is only a blessed hope, and not a guarantee and we shouldn't pride ourselves with thinking we will be raptured. The bible says to pray that we be made worthy to escape the coming tribulation, those unworthy will have to go "through the fire", lose their reward, and still save thier souls.
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Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1152
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 6:16 pm: | |
Next week the movie Luther will be out in stores. I put that commerical for the movie here because the conversation had branched into dicusing the church fathers. I am wondering how the SDA's will spin the biography of Martin Luther. We on here are all aware about how much the SDA's tried to keep their devotees from going to see the Passion. Do you think the Review, The Signs, Annoying Fiction by Doug Botchler or any of the others will even make mention of the Luther movie? I haven't seen the movie yet but I did read the book. Has there ever been a movie about EGW? |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 193
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 8:48 am: | |
Susan... I didn't know the SDA didn't endorse The Passion movie. Didn't they try and captialize on it by attaching their books to the movie at Wal-Mart not too long ago? I also want to see Luther, I heard it was very good. As for a movie about EGW, there was one in 1976 called "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest". Sorry....had to throw that in. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1155
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 9:26 am: | |
Dear Pw, You are too funny. On the linke on this website you can go to one called SDA-X. The site is fixed so you can log onto most any topic within SDA'ism. You can read the article that was in the Review about The Passion as well as link to the Annoying Fiction (ie:Amazing Fact) to read Doug Botchlers take on The Passion. Then you can link to an article from Dirk's website that quotes all the fiction in EGW's writings about the last hours leading up to Jesus's cruisifxiction. EGW put a lot in her writings about the last hours of Jesus before his death and wrote it out as fact because she went to heaven or had a vision or something but anyway she wittnissed the cruisixftion herself. Unlike Mel Gibson who being a movie producer just had to occassionally rely on artistic privialdge to dramatize a few areas within the movie. BTW, One Flew Over The Coocoo's Nest is one of my favorite movies. I also especially like Groundhog Day, The Best of Times, Airplain, Splash, etc., those sorts of movies. Maybe I'll go see Spongue Bob today. I haven't been to a movie since March when I went to see The Passion. (And, I totally am in love with Spongue Bob.) |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 137
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 9:29 am: | |
Susan,
Yes, the SDA "Keepers of the Flame" videos included stuff about EGW; they even had an actress playing Ellen for a little bit of it.
Jeremy |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 196
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 2:13 pm: | |
I think I might have seen that Keepers of the Flame video. It's very vague in my memory, but if I recall they had an actress playing an older woman writing her so-called prophecies down on a desk by a kerosene lamp. Gee, you think it's on dvd now? It has to be....I'm sure it's considered a timeless classic. Ugh! |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 242
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 2:37 pm: | |
I am amazed that I have never heard of this production. Any information you have would be appreciated. I'm always looking to add to my archives! |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 230
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 2:47 pm: | |
PW -
Twice you have made me laugh out loud...first Dr. Handysides  and now EGW starring in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"...
THANKS for brightening my day! |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 140
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 3:34 pm: | |
Freeatlast,
This link may be helpful: http://www.deafadventist.org/article.php?id=41
Here are a couple of quotes:
"Dramatic vignettes in episode 6 include Mrs. Whiteís interaction with secret society member N. D. Faulkhead and health reformer Stephen Smith. You also get a close look at Dr. J. H. Kellogg and the theological debate that swirled around him."
"What Ellen White saw in an 1863 vision gave members of the Adventist Church a lasting advantage in matters of health and medicine. The seventh episode in this series compares these startling insights with the semi-primitive health practices of her day."
As Pw said: Ugh!
Jeremy |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 243
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 3:35 pm: | |
THANKS!!! |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 141
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 3:41 pm: | |
I just have to quote the whole last paragraph:
quote:VOLUME 4 (Parts 7 and 8):
A Healing Ministry; Ellen, The Woman (90 min.)
What Ellen White saw in an 1863 vision gave members of the Adventist Church a lasting advantage in matters of health and medicine. The seventh episode in this series compares these startling insights with the semi-primitive health practices of her day. Their continuing influence is traced down through time, past he founding of health institutions at Battle Creek, Paradise Valley, Glendale, and Loma Linda. In the last episode, we are admitted into Ellen Whiteís personal life. We see her as mother, wife, writer, and friend. Dr. Allan Lindsayís epilogue examines the biblical role of the Adventist Church as the great controversy moves toward its climax.
The "biblical role of the Adventist Church as the great controversy moves toward its climax"??!
Where does the Bible talk about the Seventh-day Adventist Church??!
For that matter, where does the Bible talk about "the great controversy"??
How can they call things "biblical" if they're not in the Bible??
Jeremy |
Carol_2
Registered user
Username: Carol_2
Post Number: 197
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 4:25 pm: | |
OK, since we're talking about movies, sort of, on this thread.....does anyone know anything about a movie which I know very, very little about, but am curious about. My husband, being a man, has the remote in his hand at all times when watching the tv, flipping around and watching bits & pieces of anything catching his interest.
A few months back he came across a movie on cable where kids were talking in a coffee shop or at a kitchen table.....(like I said I didn't see it and my husband just caught the end of it.) The kids were talking about how they had been deceived and Sister White had been wrong. I think the kids might have had English or Australian accents.
When the credits rolled, there was mention of "Adventist girls" played by "so & so."
Does anybody know anything about this? Nothing important at all, I've just been curious about it since.
Love you all, and hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving! I saw my baby home from college, can't get better than that!
Carol #2 |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 143
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 5:51 pm: | |
Wow, very interesting. I had no clue about it.
So I Googled it. I got a few results for FAF posts. ;-) But I also came up with this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107702/fullcredits
Hmm...interesting.
Search Google and you get some interesting results: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=the-nostradamus-kid+adventist&btnG=Search
I just saw that it is "Rated R for sexuailty and language."
Jeremy |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 144
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 5:56 pm: | |
It's about a boy growing up SDA in rural Australia in the 1950s and I guess it's by a former SDA (Bob Ellis).
So I think it is definitely the one you're thinking of.
Jeremy |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 782
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 6:15 pm: | |
Pw,
I almost fell out of my chair laughing at the comment about "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". I like that movie. But I can understand what you are saying.
We do need a sense of humor with all the things each of us have dealt with, we do need to laugh at all kinds of things in our lives and the way we were brought up.
God, I am sure, has a sense of humor and He is awesome.
Diana |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 784
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 6:44 pm: | |
I just checked out the 3 web sites listed above. The one for the deaf is run by the SDA church and its service for the deaf.
Diana |
Carol_2
Registered user
Username: Carol_2
Post Number: 198
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 9:19 pm: | |
That was very interesting Jeremey. Thanks for looking that up and finding it. I'm not computer literate enough to have done that.
That's definitely the movie, I remembered when I saw the name. |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 197
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 6:28 am: | |
I'm interested in this movie that's being posted here about former Adventists. Being a big movie fan (even when I was an SDA...uh-oh, I'm in big trouble!), I'd love to check this one out if anyone can recall the title. By the way carol2...I loved that crack about men and remotes. It's a skill that we picked up in the SDA so you don't get too involved in entertainment. It's a form of discipline...yeah...that's it. |
Carol_2
Registered user
Username: Carol_2
Post Number: 199
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 9:01 am: | |
"The Nostradamus Kid" is the name of the one I was asking about....not sure if you're referring to that one, or one of the "Keepers of the Flame" series that was mentioned earlier.
I checked out the websites Jeremy found. The Nostradamus Kid sounds like a fairly strange movie, and does seem to involve a lot of sex, but I found some things very interesting.
The film was made in 1993, and I'd recommend you go to the websites Jeremy inserted above to read about the movie if you're interested.
Love and prayers to all, Carol2 |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1163
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 7:13 pm: | |
Remember Loni Anderson? She's a wonderful actress. I think she played in Taxi. When she was really very young and just starting her acting carreer she worked in skits for Faith For Today. The t.v. still sometimes plays those old reruns. I always jet a jolt seeing her play in those. She looks about 17-19 years old in them. I understand the SDA t.v. programs get their actors from local acting and drama schools. Also, Meryl Streep played the wife of an SDA minister in a movie about 20 years ago about a dingo snatchig the baby from this SDA minister family in Australia. Until last March when my mom went to see The Passion the movie with Mereyl Streep was the last movie she'd gone to. I think the movie was called, "A Cry In The Dark". |
